NARMAK

Doesn't it go over what his issues are when he's telling the doctor and the doctor the gives his professional assessment? 

That's Dr Ball in the UK. Generally a good apple but very conservative and doesn't ever like to take on patients that want something more aggressive. He never would have for example done my hairline design at all i think. 

13 minutes ago, jakos said:

Alright started Minox a couple of days ago I guess if i see myself responding well to the treatment but not knowing what causes that exactly, that´d be a luxury problem.

Any suggestions about where to apply minox? I am a bit focusing on the mid scalp and vertex as they are hard to attack with a HT and afaik respond better to treatments than frontal 3rd.

What do you think?

Apply it to everywhere your hairs thinning or affected and you would like a response. I would strongly urge you to look into Microneedling with a derma pen. Combined with Minoxodil, your results can be greatly boosted. 

2 minutes ago, Capnmod said:

Thanks for the reply. Man I’m really afraid of needing some kind of repair… throws so much time off. Although I’ll say I think the red is where the hairs were taken.. the white is actually where tiny hairs are sticking out and not growing .. maybe not to ideal density though

As scary as a repair might sound, you're only 7 weeks post-op so there could hypothetically be some improvements to see and you should wait until months 8-10 to get a better idea of the frontal hairline and maybe 6 months for the donor. 

In the meantime, you may have to possibly trim the hair on the donor area really short to blend it all together and depending on whether there's some shock loss that does resolve, you will have to come up with a plan for any potential repair. That can include using beard hair and also you could try using some SMP into the area for visual density. 

OP, i do not mean to disparage you but your case here is something that needs to be shown as a cautionary tale for people about hair transplants in general. 

For what it's worth, this community is designed to help a range of people from those going for their first hair transplant, to individuals looking to get a 2nd or more but also, to help those who have been to hair mills and been left in a slightly worse position. 

Ultimately sharing your story here helps but one thing that concerned me in your first post was that the clinic apparently bait and switched you without informing you until after they had taken 6k grafts when they stated 4.5k with you. That's just unethical at best but damn right criminal in the eyes of many who see how these hair mills operate. 

Please name and shame this outfit. 

9 hours ago, kirkland said:

12-month Review - Eugenix and Dr. Arika Bansal.

Hi, all. My apologies for the late review. I am now almost 13 months post-HT surgery at Eugenix. 

For those who have followed my thread before, I had a 3500-graft hair restoration surgery with Dr. Bansal at Eugenix last October. I was a Norwood 6 who had a previous SMP treatment which had left behind a semi-permanent 'blush' when I had it lasered off. My goal was to cover the 'blush' so that I could move on with my life. I had been hiding under hats for years after I had the SMP done. I took on labour gigs (nothing wrong with it but I had a previous professional career) just so I could work outside and not have to remove my hat. After my transplant, my confidence was restored and I re-started a stalled career. To that end, with a new job, my life has been more hectic and I have been less focused on my hair and more on managing my work-life balance. That's why I haven't posted recently or been more active on these threads. It's all good since I have since been promoted so the hair and hard work has paid off.  

At 13-months, here's my assessment of the entire process: 

Eugenix

Love this group. They follow-up with me regularly for updates. For me, customer care has never been an issue with Eugenix. They have always responded timely and politely whenever I reach out to them. Although I haven't been following their progress as much recently, I have seen the pics of @Zoomster from his recent visit. No question that his journey started it for me. He continues to receive excellent results from Eugenix. Eugenix continues to demonstrate that I picked the right clinic.

Now

Hair is good. Nice to have it back, whatever crazy form it seems to be taking. The pics below are from today just out of the shower. It's clearly thin and the hairline needs some TLC but I came from nothing on top so, from my perspective, it's been a huge success. I boost the area with fibers and it makes a difference (none in this pic). My co-workers all know about my journey and they are impressed by how far I have come so I think that their opinion, which is that it is an excellent result, is a better reflection of how I perceive the outcome. I have significant more confidence in social settings so, as far as I am concerned, mission achieved. 

I have left the hair on the top grow long. Definitely seems to have thinned some across the hairline and behind. Not sure if a large number of transplanted hairs are in a resting phase together? Could just be a sync issue rather than failures. Doesn't matter since I am going back for more - that can all be restored. 

I am still taking Dut (0.5 mg x 3/week) and oral minox (2.5 mg x 1/day). Although there is a supply chain issue with oral minox here in Toronto/Canada so I have not taken it for 3 weeks.

Also going back on red light therapy. Just started 20/mins per day.

Next

I am definitely going back for round 2. Eugenix is still my choice. Looking at October so 2 years after surgery 1. Hair is now an option and I want more. And I am honestly relieved to be finally getting back on with my life since the transplant. 

 

Thank you for finding the time to share an update with us and i'm so happy to hear you managed to get yourself back into action with your career. I cannot begin to imagine the journey you have undertaken to get back to this point, and wishing you a great future with the career on track again.

I am going to say, that from where you started to how things are looking, the coverage looks fantastic even with wet hair. Even if you are having to use fibres, i can imagine how much significantly different you do feel about not having to worry about things. 

Congratulations and i can only imagine that with a dry slick back hairstyle, that would make you look like a cool 80s Wall Street investor

If we go on the idea a typical hair cycle is around 3 months, i personally feel like if all hair have shed by the late stave of the Ugly Duckling phase which is months 2 & 3, then 3 months after should mean almost all hair that should sprout should be out by about month 6 BUT i want to seriously caveat this by saying, just because a hair appears, doesn't mean you'll notice it when it's first sprouted among the more matured hair when it's really thin, smaller and barely pigmented as a new hair. 

I could be wrong, but in some small cases, where the hair graft may have been traumatised, the process could be delayed and it may be up to a few months later you may see some hairs pop through. So between months 6-8 i think all the hair that will ever sprout will have sprouted. 

Oh my. I'm so very sorry to be the one to tell you OP, but this may not be a case of shock loss at all but  over harvesting. If you zoom in on the photo, the white dots are usually FUEA scars and yours have formed together into little rivers which is a tell tale sign when they take too many grafts together in an area and over harvest. 

You look like you have a strong beard area and may be able to look into some kind of repair, but so extremely sorry this happened to you. Thanks for sharing and please name the clinic, it can help others avoid the same fate. 

What's done is done now. Just concentrate on recovery and there's opportunity for a plan to help you hopefully manage this but this is again a hugely important reason to do a LOT of research and not just think about the flash marketing and low prices that Turkey usually leans on with these hair mills. 

If you are already experiencing side affects with oral medication, then perhaps giving topical Finasteride a try might be a little better. 

Ultimately in my opinion, some DHT blocking is better than none but its not worth your health and sometimes we cannot control our bodies response. Some people can literally nuke their DHT levels with Dutasteride even in the highest dosages, whilst others cannot even tolerate half dosages a few days a week. It just unfortunately is what it is. 

However, there's a range of things to try and oral Minoxidil certainly is gaining popularity as an alternative for those with side affects to Finasteride. Even if i don't think by itself its as effective as say if you were able to combine the DHT blocking of Finasteride with Oral Minoxodil. However, i would still rather be able to use something to help combat hair loss than nothing at all. 

6 minutes ago, Henry said:

I did post the other thread, I'm not the one on the picture though, these results are from a clinic that I'm looking at. Also, I'm not looking for any particular answers. I'm just looking for answers really, I've given all the details that i could, I've included pre and post op pictures and number of grafts, and all the hypotheticals, and yet most people just gave me a really safe answer. I get that it's complicated, i know that but we are not doctors here (most of us arent), i just want some opinions based on first impressions, and hypotheticals. 

You're not exactly going to get definitive answers without knowing specifics of a case. 

You should also not be looking at just this one result but a range from a clinic to see how they perform and knowing the history sometimes helps, but it's not always the case. Let's flip it on its head and say he was on medication the whole time and still kept losing ground and ended up there. That doesn't mean the clinic really was at fault per se, but at the same time, you may have patients that turned out to be a better candidate for medication and a HT. 

I think you shouldn't hyper focus on a single result but see a range. Every elite clinic has had bad results but if its not a general occurrence but rare, then that's more reassuring. 

OP, you should simply focus on your own hair loss and circumstances. It's usually easier to control hypotheticals when there's a more specific information criteria. 

11 minutes ago, Henry said:

Let's just base our analysin on hypotheticals. He wasn't using fibers, he was on medication but probably stopped, he got 3 transplants because he says he was still progressing, he was 29 after the 3 transplants. If let's say the doctor warned him that he might still progress his hairloss and might need another surgery, would you say the doctor acted ethically? Also mainly i just wanted to get you guys opinion if the remaining transplanted hair looked like 2k to 2.5k grafts. He only had work done on his hairline and midscalp

I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter if it was 3 procedure or 5. The amount of grafts here if they're genuinely 2.5k maximum is what's the most relevant information. That should mean the individual hypothetically has more grafts that they can use perhaps to add frontal density and also some to maybe spread in the midscalp to crown. 

The reason for stopping medication would have to be due to side affects imo otherwise its just self sabotage getting a hair transplant and letting your native hair suffer further loss to end up well, with hypothetically what you see in the picture. 29 to have had 3 procedures, that's also indicative imo of a slightly more aggressive hair loss if you're getting that done. 

I think the doctor sounds like they acted ethically informing an individual just because you had 3 procedures, given your age that hair loss could progress. 

Personally if somebody didn't use medication, got a hair transplant when younger and whatnot, i can understand things to a degree, but my opinion on it has always been that ultimately if you're an adult, you have to take responsibility because you put yourself into that position. Nobody forces you to go get a hair transplant, you did it because you wanted to and you chose who you did because your budget allowed whatever you were willing to pay. 

Personally i would focus on making a plan based on the situation you find yourself in. This applies for everybody. 

Firstly it could be a combination of medication not being taken, leaving native hair transplanted behind to look that sparse. Another factor could be the lighting making it look like that. There's also a possibility the person used hair fibres in one picture but not another. 

When people talk about hair transplants and the "Illusion of Density" this is sometimes what they might mean if it was a case of the lighting exposing the lesser density in sunlight. 

Ultimately without knowing all the facts surrounding the hair transplants and the person's medication history, it's hard to paint an accurate picture of what possibly went wrong in terms of visuals between the two. 

1 hour ago, MazAB said:

One month update: 

Hi everyone. With the majority of the shedding behind me, I’m officially in the ugly phase heading into month 2. The biggest change this time around is the addition of oral minoxidil. 

As a reminder, I'm taking Dutasteride once a week, Finasteride 6 days a week, and just started 2.5mg of Oral Minoxidil daily. I will soon switch to 1.25mg of oral minoxidil during the day and 5% topical minoxidil at night once I feel my scalp is ready at the 5 or 6 week mark. 

Everything seems pretty normal this time around. Much cleaner scalp all around comparatively to my 1st procedure. Just some minor redness right at the hairline which is to be expected.

I've listed my current daily supplement stack for the hair. Only new additions are NAC and Pea Protein. 

Benefits of NAC for the hair: Helps remove free radicals and toxins that prevent healthy tissue growth. Helps also to regrow nerves attached to the bulb of the hair, as well as detoxifying the scalp overall. 

Benefits of Protein Powder for the hair: Very hard to get enough protein in your regular diet, so adding a little more protein in powder form is the best way to meet that requirement. Hair is made up of protein, and a deficiency may lead to premature shedding. Having high amounts of protein on a regular basis can extend the anagen growth phase of the hair. Also, post transplant, more protein does help assist quite a bit in wound healing.

 

Daily dosages:

Collagen - 12g 

Hyaluronic Acid - 200mg

D3 - 5000 IU

MSM - 1000mg

Beef Liver capsules - 1500mg

Omega 3 (Fish Oil) - 3750mg

Pea Protein - 33g

NAC - 1200mg

Niacin - 500mg

I think the fact that the first hair transplant set such a good foundation, the new shedding phase atm anyway doesn't look so jarring at all and you should still fingers crossed look great. 

The new design and everything now a month post-op definitely has come together quite well in terms of showing off the potential after post-op swelling and redness has abated more. 

Going to hopefully be a fantastic result for you Armen and truly deserved after such a long and challenging journey with your hair loss. Can't wait to see it. 

You need a doctor who specialises in your hair type so you got some solid people there but only Dr Mwamba and Dr Bisanga are who i'm familiar with for that hair type. 

Personally i would tell you to be extremely aware of being on some Finasteride or preventative medication prior to this because it will use a LOT of grafts to lower and give you adequate density and you do not want to lower it and then end up potentially losing hair behind to MPB. I know you said it hasn't affected you or family members which is a great sign, but no guarantee it won't later. 

Reach out to those doctors and also be familiar with where your Frontalis muscle sits, the thing that makes the lines when you scrunch your forehead to see where you wanted to lower to and whether it's above or below that. 

48 minutes ago, Adrenaline7 said:

Not too keen on waiting until December 2023 or January 2024 to see Dr. Bicer, otherwise I’d give her a go. Dr. Turan seems to have quite the waiting list too. 

Do not make the mistake of working to a timescale and choosing somebody that isn't good enough. It's better to wait for the right clinic and doctor than ending up with a sub par result and losing your precious donor area. 

Personally i thought the information they gave seemed to be in a scientifically backed and relevant way that a laymen could understand and educate themselves with. However, that same level of presentation isn't what you get with his hair transplant results it seems. 

So, when it comes to the information and HT side, you have to separate the two. Even a broken clock can be right twice a day. 

When i had my hair transplant at Eugenix, they used 0.9mm punch size compared to what they may typically use which was 0.8mm but they said its because you have to adjust for each individuals follicles and curl they may have. My hair has a little bit of a wavy nature when longer but not sure how it looked at the follicle level but Dr Das did a couple of punched out grafts as a test and i do think that is the mark of a professional to make sure the person's specific hair calibre is catered to properly with adequate surrounding tissue. 

Whatever Zarev does works for him and that's the most important thing to note. You have to have a doctor comfortable in their own ability and methods of FUE to get an optimum result. I know a lot of people also constantly cite him managing to use smaller punch sizes compared to others, but that doesn’t always come without risk i think and it probably is something Dr Zarev is meticulous about in his pre-op assessments which are very in depth it seems yet he somehow is not prescribed it seems to use microscope loops during the procedure which is a bit more unusual. 

OP, i know it sucks, but don't go through with getting a hair transplant with a hair mill. You won't be down just $3k for flights but probably years of emotional pain and more money trying to fix things if they even can be. 

Use the flights to go on a holiday to Turkey instead and enjoy yourself. That may not have been your original intention but its probably a much better option and perhaps you can use that opportunity to go visit Dr Bicer and a few other reputable clinics in Turkey for an in person consultation instead of the HT at the very least. 

It sucks so much to think you had it all figured out and then have the rug pulled from you with flights booked, but it's a betrayer if bitter pill to swallow than going through with this. 

15 minutes ago, jakos said:

Thanks for the detailed response!

I am weighing exactly like you said just adding minoxidil for the sake of "pressing every button available" vs waiting to isolate the effects so that i can understand which one helps the most.

I am hesitant about oral minoxidil, a cardiologist family friend strictly warned me against it. And topical minoxidil is a significant commitment (and i´m not the most self disciplined person when it comes to those things), so it´d be a shame to start applying it without knowing how much it helps...

Maybe if I try topical minoxidil, and see if i´m a good responder to it, that would be an easier choice. I mean some people are hyper responders and would be great to know I am one. Do you know how much time is required to see the effect from topical Minoxidil?

 

 

Personally i wouldn't like to put a timescale on things because as you said, an extremely small group are hyper responders, whilst some are even non-responders to topical, but if you are going to consider yourself as a possible average responder, my personal recommendation to everybody who tries medication is give it a minimum of 12 months, take progress pictures under repeatable lighting and then stay on top of things. 

It seems like adherence is an issue you struggle with which is where oral Minoxodil is usually easier to stick with imo but i can understand obviously somebody you trust is warning you against oral versions but generally the science studies have been done enough it seems to determine 2.5-5mg are tolerated well enough for hair loss purposes. However as with everything, you have to make that decision for yourself. You could start off with topical and see how you go. Using the cheaper brand for night applications and foam for morning is a routine some use, but ultimately you'd have to regularly wash your hair to get rid of the night application it seems. 

Personally i am not on oral Minoxodil but i have come around to the idea of using it in the future for adherence purposes over topical. I think i'm doing well enough with Dutasteride but hair greed imo isn't only for hair transplants alone but people who might look to maximise their hair regrowth responses too and that's why it's sometimes tempting to use the kitchen sink approach but it's not always suitable for everybody. I would however say if i was in your shoes, Finasteride, Minoxodil and Microneedling with Nizoral shampoo 2% ketoconazole would be my routine. 

4 hours ago, Madhur Vansil said:

Thanks Kamran on your inputs , As you said above this means that shedding could happen upto 90 days and yea I seem to feel little more relaxed after hearing from people experiences around in this forum and Reddit .

Also about the hair directions which does not look ‘right’ now and once they shed and then they grow back in proper angles so what about the hairs that don’t shed do they sync up with correct direction and native hairs without being shed ?

The hairs that don't shed, the angles should generally be "correct" but it's not always 100% because they are transplanted they could have trauma, kink etc. so it's best to think of all transplanted hair as needing a "refresh" at some point in a new hair cycle to look as good as they should. 

By 5-6 months, things should be looking more "normal" but not at a complete final result imo. 

3 hours ago, MisterBreakfast said:

To be honest, we are lucky to be able to choose.  The fact that we all exist means that our genetics have been successfully reproducing for 10's of thousands of years, and if you really think about it, millions of years since we were single celled organisms. 

Some humans have a NW1, and some are hairless.  So perfect is whatever you want it to be really... And one thing if any, that I've learned in my life is sometimes you can't reach "perfection" (whatever that is).  

I think that variety is certainly what helps make things so interesting and also challenging. 

From a subjective PoV, "Perfection" is never one thing everybody will agree on but i certainly think there's a lot of inspiration to choose from out there thanks to the internet. Just seeing all the designs of hairlines people have gone with on here for example and looking at other lucky folks who haven't had to do anything but let nature bless them, helped me pick what i felt was the most aesthetically pleasing and i do genuinely think Dr Das knocked the design out of the park making what i wanted come to life in design terms. 

On 11/3/2022 at 8:56 AM, Madhur Vansil said:

45 Days Update :

Today is the 47th day and I am uploading the pics which were taken two days back .

The shedding phase is still in progress but some transplanted hairs have grown well .Also still worried about the some transplanted hairs appears in different direction if I click a pic from top of the head and as discussed with clinic it will be in symmetry once they grow and will start matching the native hairs .

Below is the progress of 45 days post op so far.Please share your thoughts on the progress as if it appears to be slow or on point ?

You seemed to have kept quite a lot of the transplanted hair as mentioned but don't freak out if there's a but more shedding over the next 45 days either and be aware the angles at this time might now look "right" if the hairs being pushed out ready to shed. It should all hopefully regrow in the correct way but it can take time for the hair to thicken, mature and darken. It can take up to 12-18 months for full results and you've got to be prepared to be patient and try not to lose hope. You went to a solid clinic after research. Trust the process. 

1 minute ago, HappyMan2021 said:

I dont think "perfect" is the correct word. Rather, there are aesthetic features that are basically universally desirable. 

Not just with hairlines, but all physical characteristics. 

I suppose you could go down the rabbit hole and say there are people who celebrate being overweight, short, bald, etc. But i dont really put much stock into those beliefs. 

 

That's why i felt putting it as "perfect hairline" would help to highlight just how subjective the idea of "perfection" is for this. Just as a "10 out of 10" for anything may not be the same for others, i think there's generally a ballpark of what is "right" or perhaps "good" in terms of aesthetics. So we can look at two different hairlines, say both are great looking but we have a preference for one over the other. 

Okay, so I've been thinking about what the "perfect hairline" is for a person and even when you Google it you get a range of things. 

For younger guys, it's genuinely almost literally wanting a baby hairline fresh out the womb in a lot of cases where the temple points haven't even pushed back to resemble a matured hairline. 

In some cases, it's a goalpost that shifts from the first hair transplant to the next when people want to refine things. They may choose to go even lower. 

However, there's an undoubted artistic element present as well as almost a scientific approach that go hand in hand, but those are all at the mercy of our physiology. You cannot be a slick Norwood 7 without a favourable donor supply of scalp, beard and even body hair to begin to consider an adequate level of coverage. Even when you believe there's an adequate amount, the results are going to be strongly influenced by physical characteristics like the shape of your head and the surface area to be covered. 

A lot of belief is that if you have a larger head, your donor supply is usually larger but this doesn't always equal a 1 to 1 situation for two different individuals when we also have to take into account hair characteristics. A person with curly and kinky hair could for example have the appearance of better coverage with less hair grafts as could a person with naturally thicker hair. 

The "perfect hairline" therefore is arbitrary and depends on the specific hair loss situation you find yourself in before any hair transplant and before any 2nd or more procedures you might undergo. What suits you in terms of design is also incredibly subjective and some choose to go on the recommendation of their doctor,  whilst some have a strong idea of what they want. Yet what you want or the doctor isn't always in tune with what might 100% be the best aesthetic choice. A doctor may be limiting themselves by considering the level of work that might end up being required to achieve your goals, or their ability and those of their technicians. Your own design might also be completely out of touch with your donor capability with being Norwood 6/7 wanting a Brad Pitt hairline. 

So the next time you do want to design your hairline, please remember to do your due diligence and consider all aspects of what you want and discuss it actively with your hair transplant doctor to make sure it's realistic and importantly within the capability of the clinic to deliver. Also, be prepared to told it may need to be done over two procedure with the first to establish a design and adequate density, and the 2nd to refine and add density. 

Lastly, i'll leave you guys with this great look into what makes a great hairline too from a professional and respected Hair Transplant Doctors clinic. Naturalness as the article states is the most important aspect at every point for a hair transplant. 

https://brunoferreira.com/blog/behindagreathairline

2 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

I just think that the result is not that impressive. With this kind of money, you would habe hoped to achive something very close to natural hair. 

 

 

What are you talking about lol. 

All the money in the world doesn't necessarily guarantee you can overcome the limitations of your donor or hair characteristics. We all know by now chasing anything close to native density takes a ton of grafts and given how extensive his hair loss was, the results definitely on the better end of the spectrum. 

27 minutes ago, Madhur Vansil said:

Hi Guys ,

        I am at 49 days post op and my shedding started around 23-25 th day and still shedding and I noticed that some transplanted hairs which already grown well are also shedding .Does it means that I am late shedder and due to this would be late grower ?

I have read many Reddit posts and here about shedding and many of them had experienced shedding from around 15th day and ends by around 40 days .

Sharing some shedding pics which gives the idea on hair length which are  shedding now 

 

Also you can take a look at my full journey here - https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/65971-eugenix-norwood-2sep-20222207-graftsdr-priyadarshini-das/#comment-675261

 

and share your thoughts on the progress as if it slow or upto the mark 

 

Thanks 

Don't stress about the days, because Months 2 and 3 are known as the "Ugly Duckling" phase because the hair tends to shed, sometimes at different speeds with some shedding faster, others slower but by the end of the 3rd month, the majority if not all of the hair that would shed will have done and started regrowing after Month 3. Even then, that doesn't imo mean all your hair will regrow in the next 3 months, you could have some hair that might still pop through a bit later. 

Unfortunately a lot of modern cases and expectations are setting 12 months as the final timescale for results, but it can sometimes take up to 18 months for full maturity. 

Honestly, i know its hard and it's difficult mentally but you just have to give things time and let them play out. Obviously it's easier the sooner you see hair looking better but also a reason to imo try to be even more aware not to judge yourself by others standards. 

I actually got told i'd need a little less than estimated for by the 200 grafts but that's predominantly because i wanted to be more aggressive for the hairline and went for the highest estimate and added additionally to the estimate. 

However, i think usually this is because of you not having an in person consultation so my view is that in those situations you should probably budget on average 20-25% more just in case or make an agreement with the clinic in advance that if that situation arises, they can accommodate you perhaps making a later payment under a plan, but personally i think that would be incredibly difficult and more likely they'll tell you to save up more money and re-arrange in a polite way.