NARMAK

OP, a hair transplant is an aesthetic choice when it comes down to it. If you personally think your situation can be improved visually and make you feel better, then absolutely go for it, but with your eyes open that you might very well be going for a 2nd procedure to end up matching your native hair density and then as long as the medication helps you maintain the hair, you'll probably never look back. 

This forum imo does as mentioned above tend to focus on age and having extensive hair loss as the reasons for getting a HT but i personally would say Norwood 3 or lower can happily go for them if they feel it will improve their confidence and visual look. 

On 12/1/2022 at 10:28 AM, HelpfulFriend said:

Hey Gil,

These are some pics. One is under harsh lighting (a bright bathroom light above my head), and the other is just in a normal setting.

The red circle is the area that wasn't transplanted into/touched.

Is there a way to determine what is thinning in terms of hair calibre? I.e. actually miniaturising?

 

 

Hairlines naturally even without hair loss have a "feathered" look that becomes a bit thicker. After the first cm or so, but the "see through" look you're showing is usually indicative of 2 things. Hair loss OR in a hair transplant that's been done, the usual mention of "Illusion of Density" which is exposed under harsher light. Its one of the frustrating things about hair transplants that a single pass will almost never get you to native density and it does have that see through affect moreso than often. 

I guess the risk is with a finite donor, they prefer to err on the side of caution rather than risk low survival but when unlimited hair clones become a thing, i think they'd be much more willing to risk things because customers will pay for it even with the warning of lower survival rates, the risk of losing your finite donor is no longer there. 

2 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, i won't rush things, dutasteride is my new friend now. Maybe i will wait till this "anagen desynchronisation" on 15 months,  this video scares me 😆

Yeah, the decrease in density for that example wasn't confidence inspiring imo and tbh, whilst i respect Dr Bansal and i am confident the science behind it has merit, i do genuinely question whether maybe a big part of that comes from where the donor hair is extracted from in their phases and then again, i also feel like most hair that's healthy can grow for a long time, and the catagen and telogen phases should only take months, so density shouldn't be severely affected. 

That said, i still wish we get unlimited and cheap clone grafts sooner rather than later. I would rather not deplete a finite donor area and when i do have a chance, i'd actually want to get my donor restocked with all the hair that was extracted and bulk out my density everywhere to match native. I pretty much think that's also everybody else

That said, good luck with the journey, looking forwards to seeing the rest and looks like you are on track for a stellar result.

1 minute ago, ray35 said:

Thanks very much, yeah that makes sense... I feel like I've definitely done that research and was thinking I'd certainly communicate clearly and be sure we were all on the same page. I like your results so far, you're definitely one of the people who have helped my conclusions particularly the fact that you're real about it and fair. Thanks again for the reply!

You're welcome, and tbh. I feel like a big part of me sharing my journey is to give a true account of what i went through and not everybody experiences the exact same things but they can hopefully benefit from some parts and maybe help them on their journey. I particularly think looking back on things, the post-op period of Months 2-3 and even up to Month 4 for your first HT even taking others and what they say into account, living through that Ugly Duckling phase is psychologically something you might not fully be prepared for. I think in some ways i'm quite fortunate but i do think i'm slightly slow in some areas of growth and i don't think you can always regardless of who you go with always account for that. That's why it's important that you allow minimum of 12 months but maybe even up to 18 months. 

Who you go with though does i think also make a difference as we know with hair mills vs proper doctors/clinics. However some things are purely aesthetic choice and i very much was of the mind that i wanted a vert specific design for my hairline and talked to Dr Das and she was open to it. Whether your Dr will be open to it AND actually capable of executing that vision are two separate things. So also something to be wary of when choosing a surgeon. 

54 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, the temples are top notch, Dr Das nailed it.

I am back on minoxidil since 3 months. I am using it mostly at weaker areas, but sometimes maybe some drop falls into transplanted hair. Anyways minoxidil goes into blood system so it should affect all hair in some level. I am using it on beard also. 

I only wish that i was better informed by Eugenix that i will need second procedure. I was so happy about 1 year regrowth on finasteride and minoxidil that i was delusional about real state of my baldness and thought that it will be 1 and done procedure. Now looking at preoperation photos with this aggresive design, i am laughing that i was so blind 🤣

 

 

My needs and wants is that i want to finish what i have started 😂

What dose of oral minox and is it better then topical minox + dermapen? 

The thing i am considering is adding some extra medicine that will cursh even more DHT in the scalp. Maybe pyrilutamide. 

Honestly, we're sometimes our worst critics and sometimes on hair loss etc. i think we become a little blind and ignore the problem. It's usually why most guys end up losing like 50% of the hair before they realise the issue. 

Personally i said it before, that if i had my temple points, i wouldn't probably have gone for the hair transplant. However, if i could go back in time to 2018, i'd have started medication like Finasteride back then as soon as i could to preserve as much hair as possible and keep what i think is a slight loss in density in my crown area and maybe have been able to hang a little more towards the temple point/sideburn hair. Then i guess if Eugenix came across my radar, i would have gone for the HT for the temple points. 

Well, as i like to say. We don't have time machines lol. Therefore it's on us to do the best we can. That's why i went super aggressive with Dutasteride and also hope it will continue to help. I'm not even 2 years in and through the 10 year Finasteride study, we can tell it continues working for years in responders and i do think you genuinely will keep seeing improvements yourself too. So definitely give it 12-18 months imo before you loom towards going for that 2nd procedure. 

51 minutes ago, ray35 said:

I'd like to bump this thread, I have the same question. Obviously, nobody has been to both places, so we'll never get a true evaluation on the question... but I'm really leaning to Eugenix, Dr. Gur has results and they look great and the videos from Grant are excellent, it's just that Eugenix seems to me like such a well-oiled machine and folks here who have great experiences there are so detailed and numerous.

For Eugenix it's a bit more travel for me and doctor involvement is a bit less (exclusive package), but their method of slits then DHT and the tech team that goes to work in that process seems super competent from what I've seen. So that's very appealing. Bu then so do the results from Dr Gur, very soild and his techs clearly do adequate work

@NARMAK I know you're happy with your trip but have a couple pending issues at this point.... if you had it to do all over again would you do anything differently?

@Gatsby Obviously, you're stoked, great results. Do you ever think man maybe I could have gone to (insert alternate clinic)...

@Ryan Daniel I guess same questions to you as above, your results have been great and your detailed experience echos most all I read. Any second thoughts ever?

I guess that's it... would love to hear some thoughts on this or aspects of Eugenix that maybe got glossed over in your reviews that made it special for you or perhaps you think back and think that wasn't all that cool. Thanks!

I'll specifically respond to the tagged part. 

I would have probably adjusted the temple point design very slightly to make them more symmetrical and i think i would have on the day before the surgery and night before talked to Dr Das and explain that i had paid for her to do crucial extraction and implantation because i cannot 100% confirm but am 99% sure that she didn't end up doing the frontal hairline and temple points. I think had i had the conversation beforehand that it was agreed with Eugenix that Dr Das would do that, it probably would have got honoured. 

So, a lesson in hindsight i would give to others is to speak up beforehand themselves. 

I guess as a side thing, probably not drink coffee on the day of surgery lol. I can't say it was the definitive cause of my blood oozing, but it probably didn't help. 

Eugenix are good and a solid outfit from when i went at least i can say, hospitality and going above what would normally be done to help me. Can't praise them enough on that. It's just the other external factors of getting a Visa to India that really hampered the process for me and if i knew how bad it was, i probably would have started the Visa process significantly earlier. 

Not sure how i would really do it post-pandemic when airline policies for re-arranging tickets aren't as good now and even if i wanted to go back, my personal circumstance in terms of getting a Visa is definitely a hassle. However, for those that can get to India, i'd say to still do all your research. Check reviews and make sure you feel confident you're going to the right place. There's plenty of places that were being praised and eventually went on a downhill trend and became a bit of a wary choice. I hope Eugenix continue to excel and i haven't overtly come across any latest cases with issues, but again, it's all part of your due diligence to be confident. 

Congratulations on the procedure and you're looking pretty fantastic at 6 months. 

Dare i even say, your temple points are looking quite a bit ahead of my own at the 6 months mark lol. 

I agree with others, that the design may seem aggressive but this is a first past and gives a great framing to your face with the temple points. 

You are still using Minoxidil right? Do you also happen to use it on the transplanted hair as well or just on the native areas? 

3 hours ago, Ghh said:

Bro you only ever needed a first pass as your hair loss was not bad at all. In fact you had a full head of hair beside the Temples. You had a Simple procedure that should of been done right. The best results 9/10 times have significant growth at 6 months . Your hairline looks sparse and the temples not very dense atm. But you only have yourself to blame , you preach not to go to hair mills but you arguably did that by getting your transplants done by random techs . If I’m going eugenix , if it’s not dr Sethi I’m not going . You would not go couto and get his techs do the transplant , you would no go Freitas or bisAnga and then get his techs do it . Eugenix has scaled up so there is no consistency amongst the techs , meaning you might not get the good ones as there are now so many . That smells of a hairmill now . As a result your going to have to spend more money on a touch up. You should of saved up and gone to a top doctor . Ironically your probaly going to spend more on two procedures than one as as a result .

Please don't come on here and preach to me Sukh. I did my due diligence and research and the fact you even claim you'd go to Eugenix if it was Dr Sethi only and forget his techs also are part of the procedure is where you lost all credibility. 

There's almost NO doctor at any level even considered elite that 100% does everything themselves. They work with a solid trusted team of technicians. 

You clearly have something against Eugenix, whatever that may be i don't care. My choice was made, i'm at 6+ months post-op and willing to wait to see how things progress till 12+ months. Humans aren't all linear with everybody getting the same results at the same stage of 6 months. 

I don't need you to tell me what i should do with my money and i made a decision based upon my own personal needs and budget. Just like everybody else will make but should do their research and feel confident in their decision. 

The concern of Eugenix scaling and quality dropping is a conversation better had elsewhere and not on a patients thread. 

The lower looking density is also mainly down to the harsher lighting i took the images in and generally not how i do see it all the time in the majority of lighting but something i chose to highlight as it does make it look a little less dense packed, but i could still have growth to come which will improve in the next 6+ months. 

I've decided my thread is to accurately reflect the good, bad and everything in between from my journey with Eugenix and hopefully some people find it useful but again  it's up to them to judge more recent patients than even me to see if they feel comfortable using Eugenix or anybody else for that matter, which is why i chose to give back on this site by documenting my experience. 

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

According to Eugenix, 12 months is not the final result, but 14-15 months. 

After 14-15 months up to 20% of transpalnted hair is entering telogen phase and this is the final result. So theoretically, density after 15 months should be worse then after 12 months. 

 

 

I think when you take things into account of the Anagen phases too, yes it can slide backwards but it shouldn't be significantly detrimental to the visual look and imo at least is something that should be taken into account.

I think this is also why people probably get suckered into hair mills because they do dense pack so highly that if they do have good survival to show off on those Instagram posts, it gives a false representation they can use to sucker more people in with. However, i still do believe even taking the Anagen phases into account, a reputable clinic should still have solid density in a single pass. 

I think i will probably have a 2nd pass during my lifetime, but i am waiting out to see the full results of my first between 12-18 months post-op. 

2 hours ago, asterix0 said:

@NARMAK I think things are on track now, don't worry and let the process play out. But if you want fully density in the front you may need to have a touch up procedure.

I'm definitely letting things play out but once i get to 12 months i'll make a final full judgement. I just wish it looked a little more full though even with a first pass. Again, it could definitely fill in more between now and months 12+.

22 minutes ago, drawdownfx said:

Bro hair looking good man, hopefully density improves in the coming months it is still a little bit early. Id also be curious to see how your temples look with shorter hair but at this length it's looking immaculate to be fair. Would you say you are better now than what you were before the hair transplant? you already had pretty good hair before the transplant.

I would say i definitely love how the new hairline had better framed my face compared to before. I do think it's a bit unfair to fully judge the temple points and full hairline density until i hit 12 months but it has slowly improved on the temple points as time is going on but again, i think the right calibre of hair being used could be why it's slower and maybe on track for those temple points. Definitely tough from a mental PoV seeing that area lag but with my hair kept long as before the HT again, i can sorta cover it up a bit. 

It was definitely the right decision for me imo. I was actually looking back at the original pictures i used for consultation in November and even with just medication by May, things look like they improved well. 

I would say i would rather favour a two phase approach if it meant better graft survival given finite donor, but obviously i think everybody would agree that we want a solid density still on our first pass too. I think hopefully by 12 months, maybe after i will get fuller look and shouldn't look as thin in spots. 

2 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

@NARMAK Do you feel any more prickles along your hairline? Usually those are a good sign more hair will be popping through.

Also, would you mind taking some photos in sunlight outside?

I can't say for certain i feel more prickles along the hairline. There's like one really blunt hair follicle i'm feeling  on the left side but i feel like it's a stunted hair and not really growing. It's kinda hard to describe but maybe it's a hair half way to being lost but also refusing to grow and stuck there maybe with medication sustaining it but not from the HT. I think i'm going to be happy if i do get more growth but i can't honestly say i'm visually able to see it atm. 

Regarding pictures, it's pretty grey and cloudy in the UK atm. I've taken some pictures under brighter lighting. Maybe might help give a small idea? 

13 minutes ago, Snowman123 said:

What would these be?

Unfortunately i cannot advise in that way but as mentioned earlier, you could ask Citizen Advice in the UK or similar places able to maybe advise you what legal options might be open to you. 

In the UK we have small claims court too which is a more simplified process but you would need to really check if that's suitable for you. I don't think anybody really is qualified to give legal advice on here but hopefully the other place like citizen advice can direct you. 

This is what could happen. Tory Lanez. 

For your hair type, you really do need a specialist imo to make it work properly. Not quacks and hair mills like Asli Tarcan etc. 

Dr Mwamba for example would be a great choice due to familiarity with your hair type.

1 hour ago, Marko7t4 said:

Going to court is going to cost you more than the £1000 that you’re trying to recover. You’re better off trying to go after the UK referrer, as you probably won’t get anything further from the Turkish clinic. 

I believe there's options in the UK the OP could try pursue but generally i think it's probably a reminder that we need to thoroughly vet HT clinics and maybe not just their manipulated sources etc.

35 minutes ago, thewonderfulpooper said:

Thanks. Does that type of crown loss usually mean unsuitable candidate for example if I don't respond well to finasteride?

It's not just the crown but the diffuse thinning on the mid scalp that you might be able to address with medication. 

If you have crown loss and plan to restore it, you need more grafts there to sort it out and it's known as a Black Hole for this reason so any ground medication can recover would be better. 

People imo underestimate the timescale to allow medication to work properly if you begin to respond. 

How old are you? 

I personally used a Dove Shampoo on the recommendation of the clinic and its a sensitive/mild version. 

Some people also say to use baby shampoo but i think any mild/sensitive shampoo should do well. 

2 hours ago, ciaus said:

Try not to overthink things, dying your hair with a reputable well known hair dye is not going to worsen male pattern baldness. 

Conversely i have a feeling when i used bleach with hydrogen peroxide a while back to try lighten the hair enough for the colour i wanted, way before i hopped on Dutasteride, i think i sped up the process of hair loss and damaged the hair there to not recover back. It's not 100% confirmed as i don't have full o  pictures etc. but i do feel it had an impact. 

You should always be careful though to try and ensure you're taking safety precautions colouring hair generally. I think most formulationa these days just with colour are safe. It's bleaching you really got to watch out for. I am fairly certain it burnt part of my scalp and when Dr Das saw my donor area, she didn't know what had happened so asked me lol. 

Talk with the doctor and try the medication. If Finasteride works, then use the 12-24 months time you need to allow it to show results and halting further loss will allow you an opportunity to be a better candidate. Right now, you're not completely unsuitable but you have crown loss that could worsen and with medication it could reverse. 

I agree with the above. The hairline design is based purely on what your finite donor and hair loss level would allow. 

You also have the fact that a person could scar differently and if you have more visible/white FUE scars, then you may want to SMP there and basically let you wear your hair shorter. 

That said, a Norwood 2/3 could probably get much better coverage and style hair than say a Norwood 7 with a much more limited donor and conservative higher hairline. 

You would probably need to go seek proper legal advice tbh. This forum really cannot help provide that and usually hair transplant/surgery is notoriously difficult to litigate around so you need somebody clued up on UK law to see where you could potentially get a win or some compensation. 

You might be needing to ask Citizens Advice if they can maybe offer help top if in the UK but it might help save people if you can post the name of the UK agency and Turkish clinic so other people can avoid a similar fate. 

19 hours ago, Gregg H said:

pretty severe thinning area on both sides. A good 3" Strip. 

This imo is a very acute form of retrograde alopecia but some may disagree with me calling it that. I do not know if you are taking any medication at present but i do think maybe a combination of Finasteride and oral/topical Minoxodil may help, but please be prepared that it also is highly unlikely to regrow as its an incredibly difficult thing to deal with compared to just regular male pattern baldness which is more linear in nature. 

I personally think its worth trying and give it 12-24 months. Maybe even try Microneedling the area. Although not a common thing for the donor, it might help. 

18 minutes ago, Patro1995 said:

I use microfibers, it's better then, I sent the worst photos when the hair is still wet. This is what they look like when they dry, see below. But summing up the only thing that saves me at the moment to thicken them is finasteride and minoxidil? that's mostly what I'm asking. Turkish clinic, I had a few friends who did well, for me it was worse.

 

 

Personally speaking, it looks like your hair loss progressed and its extremely hard to tell from the pictures what hair you may have left that Finasteride/Minoxodil could save but maybe you could benefit from it, but personally i would take it as a preventative for further hair loss and i would seriously recommend you save up because i think you need to probably go for a 2nd procedure and having gone to Turkey, i have a feeling you probably don't have a lot of donor left after they probably did what they usually do. 

OP, this forum is here to help people who have been to places like Turkey and not had the best outcome, but you also probably need to sit down and read about what your limits will be. Hair in the donor area doesn't regrow. That's unfortunately a mistake a lot of people make in thinking it does, but it doesn't. 

It's like teeth. Once the adult teeth are pulled, they aren't coming back and just like we care for them, hair is similar. 

On 11/25/2022 at 8:42 PM, gthomas21 said:

Has anyone had a transplant at World Clinica Istanbul recently. 

An acquaintance of mine (know him well enough to trust him) had a transplant there a few years ago. He was/is really pleased with his result and I've been really impressed with how diligent their rep has been over WhatsApp. She hasn't been pushy either which is good.

My only concern is that I haven't been able to find any reference to them on here. They've got good Google reviews , but I'm always sceptical of those.

Would be good to hear from somebody who has had a good experience there before it commit.

 

 

 

 

 

Your friend probably doesn't know what a good hair transplant is and no offence meant but neither do you. That's why it would be hard to say whether he's had a good result but then again, once in a blue moon, people win Russian Roulette i guess. 

If you stick around here, you'll become acquainted with the word "Hair Mill" and can decide if maybe this clinic meets that definition as most places in Turkey seem to. 

4 minutes ago, Patro1995 said:

Hello, I have very thin transplanted hair, you can see the differences between them and natural. I won't put them up because it looks weird, I can only put them down or comb them to the side. I know everyone will tell me to take finasteride, but I felt bad after that, for now I'm not going to do a second transplant. What can help me besides finasteride? minoxidil or something? I'm hoping for some advice because I'm a little sad about all this.

 

OP, if you don't want to use medication like Finasteride etc., then just be aware that when the hair loss progresses, you will likely have a disconnect between the transplanted hair and where you lost native hair. For now, you can try use hair fibres as a non-medical way to try and get the hair looking visually thicker and maybe try getting your barber to cut the hair more choppy on the fringe. No offence or intention to be mean but you look like you got a Bowl cut atm. 

I am going out on a limb here, but something tells me you went to Turkey and you're in your 20s. You likely found the hair clinic through like Instagram too and used the Google 5* reviews etc  when researching as well as the clinic pictures on social media. 

1 hour ago, Pbaird98 said:

Lol 😂 yup looks like cousin itt in the chair 

19 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

 

Haha. I saw it and thought: Wow. Even Sasquatch is getting a hair transplant these days.

 

I believe we have a paparazzi post op shot here. Clearly even our hirsute members of society feel pressure