Berba11

It's hard to say if it will be enough and if you'll be happy. The only thing we can say is that you'll be 2,000 grafts better off than you are now if everything grows in, and that will yield a positive improvement from where you are.

Personally you'd be taking a load off your shoulders by not hoping that this 2,000 graft surgery is the be all and end all, but rather to view it as one more step on the ladder. You may need or want another pass down the line, but this one should get you the frontal third and first portion of the midscalp looking good, leaving a lsightly thinner crown that will resemble a natural "back to front" balding pattern.

Who is the surgeon?

Just now, Noble001 said:

Plan going to Istanbul because Dr. Das did what she thought was best instead of doing what I wanted 

I understand that, but that's not the point I was making nor the question I was asking. Why would you go to that particular city for a HT? Which highly regarded surgeon with a body of work showcasing excellent results with afro hair are you expecting to find in Istanbul? To my knowledge, there simply aren't any. So you'd be putting yourself at risk for reasons I don't understand.

5 months is still early and you could be a late grower. Obviously I’m hoping you see improvements soon. 
 

The design looks spot on though I have to say. 
 

Why on earth would you go to Istanbul? If this HT turns out poorly then the last thing you want to do is head of to Istanbul. You need a surgeon with a lot of experience with your hair type. 

That's some voodoo healing right there Tommy! Now things have cleared up a lot already, you can really see how much more appropriate your hairline position is. Looks like you're going to sail through this no problems at all.

6 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

One recommended surgeon is repairing after another recommended surgeon's failed HT. Very interesting.

Actually the second time - @track_rathas been undergoing a repair as well (and crushing it!). Obviously this isn’t the place to discuss that case as this is Tommy’s space, but it has been noted. 
 

@Tommy1991- I note that in Feriduni’s other similar cases on here, they are all fully shaven heads whereas you’ve had a no shave version. Interested to know what if any discussion there was around that? Did your case lend itself to no shave or did you simply have the choice either way? The no shave option will certainly help you navigate the next 6 months more easily I think. 

55 minutes ago, Rossybop said:

I won't be able to wait 5 years without doing something about it. Its doing my head in and definitely thinning out. I'm thinking of going for hair systems instead.

I was supposed to write “I’m not saying wait 5 years…” (and then go on to say give it 12 months). 
 

I can’t really believe you can’t style your hair. The pictures clearly show enough hair for styling purposes and crucially you have enough hair - more than enough - to get the benefits of a nicely framed face. Your situation is pretty good overall as it stands, but there’s the question mark of what will happen now you’re not taking DHT inhibitors. 
 

The key point is that you’ve only been off the meds for a short period of time. I’m struggling to find fault in my suggestion: wait a year to assess the speed of your hair loss now that you’re med free and then make a decision. The idea that you’re even considering a hair system with that much hair on your head is pretty nuts I have to say. It’s just totally unnecessary, will be at least as much hassle as you’re finding your hair loss to be and, to be blunt, will look worse (because systems can often look a bit naff). 

8 hours ago, Rossybop said:

To me its noticeable and its really bugging me a lot. Its definitely a lot worse off than it was 2.5 years ago.

It feels thin and sparse too. I would be much happier to buff it up and make it thick and full. If I could get a good result with 1500 grafts and get another 4 - 5 years out of it before needing my next top up I'll go for it.

The issue though is that you don’t know if you’ll get a good 4-5 years out of it. You’ve been off the meds for less than a year, which isn’t very long. You don’t know if your hair loss will suddenly pick up speed. 
 

Of course it’s noticeable to you, just as my own areas of ongoing hair loss and weakness are noticeable to me (even if less so to others). The question is whether it makes best sense to pull the trigger now or to exercise a little more patience in order to better plan for the longer term. To me it’s a total no brainer - better to wait for a bit and see where your hair loss is heading now that you’re off the meds. I’m saying wait for 5 years, but giving things an extra 12 months to see where you’re at and try and get a handle on where you might be heading would be wise. In the meantime you can look into various surgeons & take consultations etc and make good use of that time. 

Would be very interested to see how this looks with the hair brushed forward, and also under less harsh lighting conditions for a slightly more ‘everyday’ presentation if it’s not too much bother!

3 hours ago, Rossybop said:

I had a 2,040 FUE transplant with Saifi in December 2020. Results were great for about 18 months then I started noticing my hair was not looking as good. I used finasteride and minoxidil for 3 years until July 2023 but then jumped on dutasteride in July 2023 - October 2023. I quit the meds because of awful sides. Now I take no medication.

Should I get another HT or would I be as well off shaving my hair? How many grafts would I need? I've thought about hair systems, maybe they'd be good, but the maintenance is a bummer.

Thanks.

Your current situation is still very, very good from these photos and I’m not seeing any need to get another HT yet. 
 

Personally I would give it plenty more to time see how things develop. If you lose hair quickly, then another HT will at least be worthwhile. If you lose hair very slowly then you know things are stabilised somewhat and can proceed on that basis. 
 

What you don’t really want to do is get a small HT now and then lose more hair quickly and need another one. Chasing down hair loss with constant surgeries isn’t ideal if you can help it. 
 

As it stands, no one would know you’re losing hair (unless you deliberately try to expose the weaker areas as in these photos) and it seems there’s no reason to make any hasty decision in terms of shaving it or getting another HT. 

4 hours ago, Slickster76 said:

Oh yeah? How is the cost vs Pitella?

Is Dr Sever as good with high Norwoods as Pitella, as far as results?

The best thing to do is search for cases on here and other forums, YouTube etc and also schedule a consultation with Dr Sever via Skype or in-person. Cost is around 5 Swiss Francs per graft I believe. 

5 hours ago, Slickster76 said:

And do you know if they do (and are good) at beard transplants as well if my donor is sort of low?

Hattingen will use beard hair as well, yes. I literally had a consultation with Dr Sever last week in London.

This conversation is descending into silly territory.

The point of these high "off-schedule" price points is to act as a deterrent for most people, because his schedule is booked 3 years ahead just for a consultation alone and that backlog is otherwise hard to address whilst not putting a total stop to new bookings. There's a point at which the clinic/Dr needs to either stop taking on any more consultations for a while in order to clear the backlog, or create a 'limiting factor', such as a higher barrier to entry to use his services. That's fairly normal across many business practices; you charge a premium under certain conditions, such as someone wanting a job done yesterday that you wouldn't ordinarily be able to do. If a customer (or in this case, patient) is willing to make it worthwhile for the business to deviate from their standard practices, then many businesses will accommodate. Businesses also often charge less or will offer discounts in exchange for added convenience of flexibility.

The question then comes down to... Is a £900 consultation worth the money? Depends. Zarev's consultations are famously long and detailed. You could make an argument that paying that much for the consultation and the information about your scalp, hair loss, donor resources and so on is fair game in and of itself. You could also make a case for paying the extra for the consultation but using this information by choosing another excellent surgeon who charges less and is available sooner, meaning that Zarev consultation cost ends up being not as big as it sounds when taken together with the cost of cheaper surgery. The information from that consultation will be invaluable whatever you do and which ever surgeon you end up choosing.

43 minutes ago, Slickster76 said:

I too am a Norwood 6/7. Is Hattigen Hair a great clinic for advanced cases like that?

Has anyone on this forum had any experiences with them?

Hattingen is an excellent choice, and are known for doing large sessions in both FUE & FUT. Their wait times and prices are a lot less than Zarev as well.

Top class result.

1 minute ago, JackSparrow said:

Thank you for your valuable suggestion. I feel like getting a HT when my hair gets wet and the front looks bad and also when I get my hair short.

I am based in New Delhi, and got a evaluation of 1500-1700 from Eugenix(they saw same pics on WhatsApp), but they are lowering my hairline too much. 

What's your opinion on this? 

Don't lower the hairline. Find some old pictures where your hairline was still intact and use them as the basis for going forward. With Eugenix, insist on wanting a conservative hairline. Remember you can also lower it at a later date if at some point you decided you wanted to be a little more aggressive, but taking a hairline that is too low back up again is a real challenge that you wouldn't want to go through.

Like I say, you have a good head of hair. There's no need to do anything too drastic with the hairline - just reinforce the miniaturised forelock and you should have a really excellent result that will stand you in great stead into old age.

You don't need a HT, but if you wanted to get one then you look like you'd be an excellent candidate and with your curly hair, you wouldn't need a huge amount of grafts to get a really great result. A nice, conservative restoration of the central forelock would get you a great outcome I think.

Where are you based?

2 hours ago, jameslondon said:

Because they don’t mention anything beforehand and take all the information that they make no comment on.  For even a thorough consultation 900 euros is too much.  

It's normally 150EUR for Zarev, but these are the 'off-schedule' prices. I have a consultation with him next year at the normal price but I'd booked it over a year ago so got lucky in that respect.

26 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

PS. I was in London from Friday

Damn, we should have grabbed a beer!

51 minutes ago, track_rat said:

Hi all, wanted to provide you with an update. You have been so supportive and encouraging, so thank you very much for that.

My procedure at Eugenix was clearly a very poor result. I don’t think there’s any other way to view it. I will never get the time I lost back, but here’s to hoping I continue to make progress and am at a point where I’m content soon.

Life stopped post surgery. I lived in a hat and was in a very bad place with low self esteem and an enormity of regret. After many tens of thousands of dollars and numerous visits to experts around the globe, I found a dynamic duo (Konior and Mwamba) that has yielded some success. We have plans to continue in the coming year.

Excuse some of the extra cropped photos. I value my anonymity very much but am sharing in hopes this helps somebody else.

Step 1: Konior  | ~450 beard graft removal and redistribution 

Before Konior surgery.

Day of Konior surgery. Focus was to remote the helmet head / birds nest of beard hair to yield a more natural blend, even if I looked more bald in the process. Goal was to look more natural and less people staring at me.

 

Step 2: Mwamba | 800 scalp grafts into outer ring, 500 beard grafts combination of filling in beard gaps and also lower horseshoe of head, 500 chest grafts into donor 

Mwamba had a tall order on this surgery. Objectives:

- Build around the island that Eugenix implanted on to try and merge the sections. You can see in prior photos there was nothing implanted in the outer ring and much of below, and things just looked awful.

- Implant into my neck/beard to restore the empty patches left by Eugenix.

- Implant into the top corners of my head where there was no work done prior.

- Remove the remaining Unger hairs from my temple that were not pulled in India. There were so many.

- Remove some hairs at the center of my hairline to lift it, as it was made to dip way too low.

- Do all of this with a no shave technique. 

 

The red rings here would be his focus for the second session we had about a year later. 

About 8 months later:

 

Step 3: Mwamba second session | 300 scalp grafts into various areas, some beard grafts into empty patches, some chest grafts into donor 

Objectives:

- Continue to rebuild back of head with empty areas. Mostly refilling the red rings shown above.

- Remove additional hairs from center of hairline to raise it. The prior session was less aggressive as a test to see how it would heal.

- More touch ups on gaps in beard 

I didn’t take as many photos here. I was comfortable with Mwamba, and it was a relatively minor session with only a few hundred grafts moving. 

After approximately one year, and current state:

 

The next session is with Konior coming up in a few months. We will be using scalp donor that I’ve been preciously saving to start giving me more volume on the top of my head. He has proposed a few sessions with a few hundred grafts a pop. It may seem nominal, but a few hundred in his hands can make a difference. I will also continue to see Mwamba to make use of body hair and targeting empty areas in the donor. 
 

Please let me know your thoughts.

Wow! What a journey so far. Everything is looking really, really good and it sounds as if you’re doing much better generally which is great. I’m really happy to see you very, very nearly out of the woods for good. How are you feeling about everything?

Would love to see some close ups of the hairline extractions to see the healing. Also keen to hear your thoughts on the “bird’s nest”. Any new extractions planned for those?

Great update mate. Really is good to know you’re on the up. 

1 hour ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Indeed, surgery should be tailored to the individual. I do believe your situation is different from @GeneralNorwood I would not consider you a repair. I wouldn’t recommend strip for general. I agree with Dr. Muresanus assessment. 

Yes definitely different situations (mine a lot better than GN’s), but interesting parallels in terms number of grafts extracted via FUE, overall pattern of loss (mine not yet as advanced as GN’s), going too aggressive on the first pass and surgeons wanting to refine/modify the hairlines. 

These high res photos show how impressive & precise the punch outs look. Very nice indeed and can’t wait to see this heals and the new hairline height starts to really work for you. 

On 3/28/2024 at 11:01 PM, GeneralNorwood said:

Dr Sever Muresanu said that FUT is not good idea for me, because i don't have virgin scalp and it is not worth the effort. He recommended FUE. 

I remember you said this and thought it was interesting. I met Dr Sever in person last week and despite having had 3,555 FUE grafts taken out already (just like you!), he said to me that he could "easily get 4,000 grafts" from a strip surgery in my case, plus I'd still be able to have FUE as well (and I'd be a good beard graft candidate as my head hair is naturally more coarse so matches beard better). In my case he doesn't want to do strip yet as it's not needed. He wants to do 1500 grafts to bolster the midscalp and reinforce the frontal third and also wants to extract around 150 or grafts from the hairline as he thinks it's a bit too linear and needs more irregularities. He said my donor was "great", which was a relief!

It's nice to get good hair news, but thought it was worth sharing to show how estimates and considerations can vary a lot between from the same doctor seeing different patients.

3 minutes ago, Tommy1991 said:

Sure, although my photos don’t do it justice due to resolution they do look seriously slick on the photos taken by Feriduni. They will send me the photos tomorrow aswel. 
 

Port surgery serum and a spray for the recipient areas. 
post surgery oil for extraction zone and a mousse shampoo. They send a link to download an app, which has a calendar , sends a notification for spraying or for example, shampooing every second day.

They also provide antibiotics, vitamins, neck pillow, pillow cover and a cool pack for the forehead.

Excellent info, cheers mate! How did you find the logistics of getting to Hasselt? And are you flying back to Ireland straight away, or sticking around for a few days? I hated navigating my way through airports with an attention-drawing surgical cap on my head!

8 minutes ago, keith c said:

That is my big concern aswell. Also, your correct the hairline has been lowered which is something i noticed from the start. I now know how dangerous/risky this is, which is something i wish never happened aswell. Here are some photos that might help l. 

Thanks for sharing.

So that last picture is interesting. You had a very strong forelock, a hairline height that was naturally very nice and a bit of natural, mature recession. I think you'd have been a great candidate for a much more subtle, conservative surgery to enhance where you'd lost ground. Clearly from your post op photos there's lowered your hairline in the center point by about 2cm's, and gone quite aggressive bring forward the temple corners.

Before committing to any further surgery, you might want to follow a repair case that @Tommy1991underwent today with Dr Feriduni (and also @Davyfor example). This will give you some other ideas about how to proceed. Ultimately what's done is done and rushing to try and fix things might make things worse. So definitely take you time and consult with several doctors who do a lot of repair work: Feriduni, Bisanga, Muresanu are all worth reaching out to.

1 minute ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Interested to know as well. That said, Dr. Zarev showed me a similar case where grafts were extracted and there was no visible scarring.

Yea I saw that one. Also Feriduni has about 3 or 4 other cases on this forum like this and there's not a single scar in sight on any of them. @RTChas no scarring from his Hattingen punch-outs either. My best guess is the forehead just heals far better than the donor area even without creams and so on, but I assume most surgeons will prescribe something to help things along.