deeznuts

23 minutes ago, Buck Naked said:

2-3 days for 2,500 grafts sounds like a lot of time. Why would it take to long?

couto gently sings to the grafts and tucks them in at night so they grow big and strong

2500-3000 imo. Hairline takes a lot of grafts so you'll probably see a lot more grafts than you would mid scalp

I think H&W are quite capable of "conservative" results. Just cause you can plant a forest doesn't mean you aren't able to plant a few trees.

Sure they might recommend more grafts but all you gotta do is ask for less

5 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, it will be different. I think you could follow the same principle as applying hair product. Dab a small amount and try and get as much on top as possible with that small amount. Another way is to reduce the usage per week. Use it 3x per week instead of 7. 

Ah but they say it's 99/month's supply. What constitutes a month's supply then? Is a month's supply enough for a NW5 diffuse to apply daily? If I'm NW2.5, would I be able to get 1.5 or 2 months out of 1 month's supply? I get that we can microdose it, but what if our goal is to do the recommended 1x/day? I'm just wondering about how much we actually get from their product. It's like getting a year's supply of free pizza only to find out it's 52 free pizza vouchers you know? 

3 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I don’t believe Norwood 7s would qualify. To be honest, Dr. Simon Pimstone was being very honest when he said there’s a window to start treatment. Once your too far gone, it’s pointless. Many will push fin on Norwood 7s with no hair, it’s like selling a car cover for a wrecked car. 

This treatment is best used for diffuse thinners or Norwood 2-5s. Past that, the benefits are marginal at best. 

Even NW2 vs NW5 diffuse is pretty different area though. Like for me I'd probably just apply it around my hair line I'd imagine while a NW5 is applying it to the entire midscalp, crown (maybe) and the hairline

I'm personally waiting for topical dut but wish nothing but the best for people trying this out.

Just wondering though, they say it's $99 per month but surely a months supply is different for a NW7 as opposed to a NW2... How are they intending to distribute topical fin in response to that? Is it going to typically show up on your doorstep every month like it does for other people or can you reorder every 1/2/3 months? Or maybe they just ship you 3 months at a time? 

I think it's more the opposite where you get a system for the crown but use your natural hair for the hairline with a transplant.

I think hair transplants end up being cheaper over time as well since hair systems are a subscription model and subscription models are great at nickel and diming you until you're broke

looks like they're targeting 6 months for topical dut release

On 7/3/2022 at 3:57 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

That's a good question. I'm not sure if they're shipping to Brazil. I believe they would, but I would have to double check

Wasn't the topical fin one limited to US/Can? Could've swore it was

My 5 (in no order)

Freitas, Couto, Konior, H&W

You're not a 3A if you have crown loss. The A implies you're only losing in the front. V is for crown loss. If you have diffuse in the middle, your pattern is probably going to be 4 or 5 at least I'd imagine

I think there are a few examples of guys with failed transplants still shaving it bald. Joe Rogan has a scar on the back of his head from his failed transplants for example

8 hours ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Here’s my questions

What kind of studies did they do? Double-blind placebo

To add onto RandoBrando's question, I'd love to see comparisons between a placebo AND a comparison between a typical topical dut formulation that you might get from someone like Dr. Mwamba who has a pharmacy manufacture it for him

I'm sure this will be discussed but I would like to hear a release date for topical dut

Is that diffuse loss on top or is that just the lighting?

Is that diffuse loss on top or is that just the lighting?

I honestly don't think it makes that much of a difference. It's a very minor detail and fwiw, what's done is done. 

45 minutes ago, civic said:

There is dense packing & then there is overpacking. Why would you want a 5 mile worth of forest planted on 5 inches of land? More is not better, overpacking can in fact be detrimental for optimal  graft  survival rate as they will fight for blood supply & by looking at what other top clinics achieve with less  is where the disagreement comes in.

Not really a great analogy seeing as that original 5 inches of land had "5 miles of forest". Actually it possibly even had "10 miles of forest" originally. Hasson and Wong get pretty strong survival rates and they dense pack like no other. Just ask Dr. Konior. 

Why would you want to dense pack? Density in the front scalp where it matters the most. Letting people avoid going 2 or 3 trips to get the same result. It seems like a solid choice for people who are older, stabilized their hair loss, have minimal hair loss. i.e. lots of supply to create a fantastic result

Does it compromise graft survival rate? Honestly, the survival rates from H&W look very good. 

3 hours ago, Savemyhairline said:

I totally agree that I’d rather get 1 procedure over two if possible. I wouldn’t ask for less grafts, though I have seen other people feel that they use more than necessary to achieve similar results to other top tier surgeons.   I can always make more money in the future, unless hair cloning actually comes into fruition one day, I can’t make more donor hair. 

Imo they use more hair to achieve better results than other surgeons. H&W have great results using a limited number of grafts. But they can give you hair that's dense packed 

How is that a 5 month result.

Looks amazing

I like H&W. If you want them to use less grafts, just ask them.

But lots of people get 2+ hair transplants to get extra density. I'd rather just get it in one from Dr. Hasson

20 hours ago, NARMAK said:

The rule of thumb that we should go on what our mothers and fathers male relatives ended up at in their 70s or so is carried over from a bygone era imo that never properly updated. 

For one thing, FUE has improved to even where Hasson & Wong, practically pioneering the best FUT in the world say FUE is now as good or better. 

Then, factor in that we have access to Finasteride/Dutasteride and Minoxodil alongside treatments like Microneedling and Nizoral with ketoconazole 2% to also help. Not to mention the somewhat untested but anecdotal off label topicals like RU5 whatever it is. 

My point is that for the vast majority of people, when we now take into account the fact we can inhibit DHT, there's a good chance that had say a grandfather been NW7, but say a father gone on medication when available, he went no further than a Norwood 4 and a son started almost pre-emptively at 18, he never goes past a NW2. 

There's never ever been a genuine long term study of that kind to see the impact of DHT inhibition by Finasteride over such a generational study. So it's guessing but look at people on this very forum who have been on Finasteride for 15+ years. They will tell you themselves how their relatives were NW7 but they inhibited to the point they maybe didn't get past NW5. That's 2 classes of baldness saved against and having to use more grafts to cover. 

Also, take into account that the 10 year study on Finasteride from Japan for example found that NW3 and above who started, kept the most hair and recovered the most ground but almost all classes fared better than placebo which continues to get worse. 

So genuinely we need a slightly modified approach towards younger patients but ONLY if they imo are following a medication regimen of say Finasteride for a couple years beforehand and show they have stopped/stabilised hairloss till around 25 in order to be deemed suitable for more aggressive hairlines. That said, they also need to assume the onus of future hair loss and what it would mean if they did slip on medication which does happen. 

Very few lucky people never bald another hair by inhibition of DHT and a very few unlucky people still reach NW7 with aggressive hair loss even on the highest dose. Everybody else should assume an average in the middle result. 

I don't understand how this relates to my post at all

14 hours ago, Fox243 said:

That’s why I’m suggesting we plan for being a NW7 when getting a HT. I still think NW7 can get a very conservative hairline with light full coverage if using FUT + BHT based on my research.

Would you really be happy with a NW7 hairline? NW7s often end up as NW3s after they're done transplanting... Have you even lost enough hair to be NW3?

On 6/20/2022 at 6:39 AM, Egy said:

I like De Freitas for example, the price he practices for FUE is € 3.50 for the first 1000 follicular units extracted, he drops to € 2.50 up to 2000 and € 1.50 after 2000, but his results are extraordinary.

In Turkey, on the other hand, Pekiner would be a great choice, but he chooses his patients, he doesn't like complicated cases like elevated Norwoods.

Is this correct? I don't recall seeing him offer 1.5 euro after 2000. And adding it seems a bit weird since he's got a wait list over a year long

I also got a quote from him for 2600 grafts @ 7500 euro last year so that's less than what I'm paying at the moment. This was last year though so he may have changed his prices

12 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

Well, with age hair becomes a bit less important so I can see your point there. But hair will definitely still matter to you in your 40s. 

Yeah it's more my point that if you're buying a car, you'd rather get 15 years out of it instead of 10 right?

Same with a hair transplant but since they last until you die in theory (ignoring age related thinning/questionable donor hair quality), you can't tack 5 years on the backend... You tack 5 years on the front end by getting it earlier.

But the issue with getting it too early is you're trying to buy a car when maybe you don't know what kinda car you can afford

16 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

You may disagree but in my opinion it is best to not have a HT under the age of 40. Because then you're in a much better position. I could have had a HT in my early 30s but I wisely choose to wait until my early 40s. 

Imo the time value of a hair transplant is super important. I know a lot of guys just rush into it and I don't agree with that at all, but it really is nice to have hair for 10 more years when it matters.

12 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

I don’t really see the point of having a transplant when I’m 40. I’m just trying to have hair until I’m married – in my culture, it’s seen as totally normal to lose all your hair after marriage but it’s taboo to be bald before then. 

In North America, we just get fat after marriage