deeznuts

A lot of docs don't believe in it and personally, I'm not trynna drop several hundred on speculative treatment. I'd rather spend that money elsewhere

Pretty much what the title says. Obviously clinics are only gonna post their best results but most people don't have the amazing donor hair and great luck that the best transplants get. I checked out some of the user posted reviews but sometimes it feels like people gravitate to the ones that interest them - botched transplants and homeruns. So I was wondering what people think would be an average transplant from the likes of H & W, Couto, Konior etc etc.

Lower Norwoods usually just get FUE because they're not so limited by donor supply due to their limited hair loss. There's also the potential for no shave procedures. You might consider FUT if you prefer a cheaper procedure, don't mind a giant horizontal scar on the back of your head, are okay with a bit longer recovery, and feel like you may experience more significant hair loss in the future. 

South Korea is one of the plastic surgery capitals of the world. They frequently have foreigners fly in just to get plastic surgery because of how popular it is over there. Yet I almost never hear about S. Korea ever being talked about for hair transplantation even though I've heard of a couple clinics over there. I've seen a few youtube videos of people going to Motion Clinic but haven't seen too many patients results posted by average every day users. I almost feel like Korean hair transplants are almost like the work of some of those Spanish doctors who have thousands of successful transplants but almost no one in the English speaking forums know anyone that's actually gone to them.  

Even when I Google for real patient results from Korea, it's very rare to find any results. So I was just wondering if people had any results from S. Korea and how the doctors are over there

Don't women get their hairline lowered in a different way? i.e. not a hair transplant

4 hours ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Liposomal finasteride is better absorbed and thus more effective than non-liposomal finasteride. 

Do you know if it affects the amount of side effects that the user experiences?

It's literally an appointment. It means nothing until you place the deposit

Does non-liposomal topical finasteride make a difference compared to liposomal finasteride? I think I got a prescription for non-liposomal topical finasteride... I was wondering if that would affect how much of it my body absorbs. 

Even Hasson & Wong don't seem to advertise Dr. Wong. Like if you check out their results gallery, it's all Dr. Hasson.

Personally though, as someone considering going to H & W, the reason I'm interested in Dr. Hasson seems to be because Dr. H seems to specialize in hairline work whereas Dr. W specializes in crown work from what I've read

Looks like everyone loves Dr. Hasson here. One concern I have with H & W has more to do with geography. They're all the way on the other side of Canada so I was worried about what post-op followup examinations would look like. Or if something got botched, would H & W repair it for free? One thing that I like about Dr. Rahal is that he's near me and I could just drive down to meet him if I ever needed to do follow ups. How important is it to be within driving distance anyway? Or would just sending pictures be enough for the doctor to evaluate where I'm at?

Also, how experienced are Dr. Rahals techs? I know H & W have their system down to a T but I was wondering if Rahals techs had a lot of experience with him and what kind of consistency I could expect from them.

23 hours ago, BLE123 said:

Do you have any pics?

H&W know what they're doing but 3000 grafts is a lot for some simple temple recession, 1500-1800 is usually more the typical number and I've seen a lot of good results using this amount but obviously every case is different. As for the other Dr saying he can do it but you'll be left with thinning temples, I'd probably avoid. To the average person, NW2 isn't balding but thinning is a sign of balding, I'd personally rather be an NW2 than a "thinning" NW1 so if he can't be confident of good coverage then I'd look elsewhere.

Dr. Hasson has some crazy good dense-packing results which is why I'm assuming I was quoted 3k

18 hours ago, kramer79 said:

What surgeon did you see in Toronto who recommended 1200 grafts?

Since you are going with Dr Hasson, I am guessing you are looking into FUE?

Dr. Cotterill. He was a nice guy and answered all my questions but I don't think his style aligned with my goals. He said roughly said something about how even though I'm the patient, he's the surgeon and he has to factor in what he feels will give the best results (including down the line) and so his goals tended to be more conservative. Not that he noticed any miniaturization outside of the hairline but I'm guessing he likes to play it safe and make sure his patients don't get left high and dry in the case they suddenly get hit by a case of Norwood 7

Yeah, I'm definitely going FUE either way. I think my recession has been fairly slow (based on comments from both consultations) so I'm probably not going to be too strapped for donor hairs.

18 hours ago, Harry Bosch said:

Both are top-notch. In these unfortunate times, you are blessed to be Canadian.

@TorontoMan received great hairline work from Rahal. his thread is really well-articulated and has all the details you need.

hasson has a reputation that is more or less spotless.

consult with both and go with whoever you feel best about.  no wrong decision here.

H&W seem to quote higher totals — 3000 sounds double what a NW2 would require— but that’s implicit in their ability to deliver a dense-pack Johnny Bravo hairline.

agree that Rahal can hit the homerun, but Hasson is an automatic triple.

Yeah I saw that thread. I was really impressed with the result as well. What kind of differences would be noticeable for dense packed hair like what Dr. Hasson does verse something that Dr. Rahal might go for? Would a density of say... 50 grafts/cm be noticeably in any way? Does the extra density make a difference?

I'm almost 29 and my hairline has gotten to the point where I'm starting to feel like my receded temples are beginning to limit my styling options. Over the last year or so, I've noticed my hairline has gotten worse to the point that I started to realize I was receding. I always noticed very minor recession at the temples but didn't think much of it and just assumed it was just a normal hairline. The last year though with all the WFH stuff, all my terrible procrastination/playing catch up habits have really manifested and it's taken a toll on my hair due to missing sleep and whatever else. If not for the last year, I think my hairline would still be decent enough to try all the hairstyles that I was doing before. 

Anyway, I did a consultation with a local surgeon in Toronto as well as an online consultation with Hasson & Wong. I signed up for a consultation with Dr. Rahal but his sales guys feel like the type of people would try to sell you a hair transplant at a funeral if they thought it would get them anywhere. Dude called my phone at like 10 Saturday morning to ask me for photos of my hairline. 

So I talked to the local surgeon and he recommended 1200 grafts to fill in the temples. No hairline lowering or anything. Just temples only. And it would give the appearance of mild thinning I believe he said. Overall he seemed really conservative and his estimate though he did tell me that my hair donor density was about average while my hair thickness was a bit above average thickness. 

I also did an online consultation with Hasson & Wong and I was basically told that I'd need 3000 grafts. I'm assuming the reason H&W said 3000 and my local surgeon said 1200 is because my local surgeon is very conservative and Hasson & Wong are more on the aggressive side and are capable of achieving some ridiculous hair density. I don't believe H&W recommended to lower my hairline either though I was only thinking like half a cm at most. Not that any surgeon recommended lowering my hairline

Recently, I've been looking into Dr. Rahal because the hairlines on his site are jawdroppingly good and I've just been super impressed overall with all the photos I can find. Obviously, they're his best work, but to have a gallery of hairline results probably means you're doing something right. I haven't got the opportunity to consult with Rahal but it'll happen soon. 

So I've been trying to decide between Dr. Rahal or Dr. Hasson. For Rahal, I really like his gallery and he seems to specialize in hairlines. He's supposed to be a bit cheaper than H & W which is very nice bonus assuming all else is equal. Also he has an office in Toronto and it would be nice to be able to just go to see him in person for whatever issues after the hair transplant. The one reservation I have about Dr. Rahal is I'm unsure about his consistency/techs. I haven't done much research on them but I was wondering if his techs were experienced and had been with him for a long time.

For Dr. Hasson, (I'm leaning towards Dr. Hasson over Dr. Wong since Dr. Hasson seems to work with hairlines more), what draws me to him is probably his reputation and what I feel is the closest thing to a guarantee out there. I like the crazy density that H & W can achieve (not sure if Rahal attempts the same?) and he's got a few patients in his gallery that have left me impressed. But he doesn't have the sheer quantity of great hairline results. Especially since it seems like Dr. Hasson does just about everything well. H & W seem like they've got the entire process down to a T so I'm not too worried about their techs or their consistency. Also, H & W are a bit out of the way so followups after the transplant seem like it would be difficult.

Right now, my personal feeling is that Dr. Hasson is all but guaranteed to do a good job. But Dr. Rahal might be more likely to hit a home run and do something jaw dropping. I'm not sure how much density Dr. Rahal will get however I know Dr. Hasson dense packs with the best.

Anyone have experience with one or both of them? How did you guys feel about Dr. Rahals process? Any personal recommendations for one or the other?

Quick question (sorry if hijacking thread) - if my choices are between H&W and Dr. Rahal and I'm trying to get my hairline fixed (Norwood 2), what would you say separates Dr. Rahal from Dr. Hasson and vice versa for this kind of procedure?

Also, kinda weird but it feels like we never hear of any names from East Asia despite East Asia having a thriving plastic surgery industry

Don't focus on what could've been. Life's a little easier that way ha. 

Anyway, I thought they didn't know all the genes responsible for hair loss? That's why they give it to you as a percent right?

3 minutes ago, deitel130 said:

I have been on oral Finasteride for almost 10 years with no sides but was thinking of adding topical Dutasteride. I consulted with Rahal but he only does FUE and was quoted only $3 a graft unless I heard wrong. I wanted to go FUT to maximize my donor.

I'm not sure I believe $3 per graft. That's like developing country prices.

@TorontoMan How much did you pay for 2400 grafts?

On 11/3/2020 at 4:12 PM, TorontoMan said:

Thats pretty standard practice from my understanding, both H&W and Rahal utilize techs in every surgery. It doesn't deter me as they do the most important part of the surgery that takes a lot of skill and artistry, and in fact I rather them be more rested and prepared so to say to do the incisions rather than being fatigued during the other processes. And clearly its been working for them, they trained their staff well and they work like a well oiled machine. But yeah each doctor does perform 2 surgeries a day. 

I feel like intelligent use of techs should be a plus, not a negative. At the end of the day, the techs who look down the microscope for 8 hours a day for 20 years is gonna have far more experience looking down the microscope and doing whatever than a doctor who worked on every step of the process for 8 hours a day but only got X amount of hours working on the microscope part. Not like being a doctor makes you magically good at everything and yeah they went to school for it, but they also learned a bunch of "useless" crap in school like what to do if you have an erection for longer than 4 hours which probably won't come up at all during a hair transplant. Does knowing what mitochondria are really matter that much for a hair transplant? Imo, what makes you good at hair transplants is doing a shit ton of hair transplants. And what makes you good at extracting grafts is extracting a billion grafts. So a tech who only extracts grafts every day for 20 years is gonna be better than a doctor who is doing consultations and prescribing propecia half the time. Doctors spend too much time learning about things they never end up using when sometimes I feel like hair transplantation is more like a trade where what really matters is hands on experience.

I'm in Toronto too and I've been thinking of H & W and Rahal too. I'm also in the exact same situation as you - Norwood 2 and in need of hairline/temple restoration.

What made you choose Rahal over H & W? What factors were you considering between the two of them?

4 hours ago, deitel130 said:

I'm also in the GTA. H&W I believe stopped topical Finasteride.

I asked their rep fairly recently about acquiring topical fin. I believe he said that legally they could only sell it to me if I had a prescription but maybe he's just saying that so I go to Vancouver to get a HT lol. I got a script for topical fin and he was still like nah... I forgot his reasoning why but I think it had to do with the different types of topical fin? 

But yeah, every time I asked he was just like nah you gotta go to Vancouver and get a script from H & W 

6 hours ago, n58 said:

thanks for sharing your experience. Are you still consulting with other doctors or have completed your search? 

I'm mostly done.

My situation is that I'm a Norwood 2 at age 30. My hairline would actually be a lot better if this year wasn't so stressful for me. WFH really messed with my sleep schedule and brought out the worst of the procrastination + catch up habits I have lol. I don't have a ton of hair loss though my hairline is maybe a bit higher than I would like, my temples are fairly recessed and I wanted to try nice hairstyles that expose my hair line. 

I didn't really look at too many docs because I knew I was looking for top tier results so I'm willing to pay a premium for it. That narrowed down my search a fair bit because I'm only looking for the best guys. Right off the bat I narrowed it down to a handful of guys. It was really just H & W and Rahal for me. Since I'm a Norwood 2 mostly looking for hairline and temple work I was kind of thinking about going for Rahal (also due to proximity to me) but his sales reps were annoying as hell and would harass the hell out of me which pushed me a bit more to H & W who's rep was professional and answered my questions without harassing me to buy something. Though I guess if you worked at H & W... The customer probably comes to you lol

Looking at the pictures though, Rahals hairlines are insane and it's definitely the stuff that us lower Norwoods have fantasies about. However, H & W has the reputation on their side and I really feel like H & W would be more of a guarantee than Rahal. Pricing I think is pretty much the same if not almost the same. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. Those Rahal hairlines though are pretty insane. Actually I want to note that I'm thinking Dr. Hasson over Dr. Wong more because Dr. H seems to do more FUE and more hairline stuff (?)

Travel isn't that bad of an issue for me because I can work remotely

So I'm from Toronto as well and I've consulted with their rep here in Toronto as well as one of the Drs on your list. I was a bit perplexed by that as well. My quote from H&W was almost double the other doctor but it's important to keep in mind what each doctor has in mind when they quote you on the graft count. H & W may be going for more density or more coverage and therefore quote a slightly higher count. That or their sales guys just quote slightly higher numbers lol. The other doctor just told me that he wasn't going for significant density and that his goal was the appearance of thinning. Kinda funny though, I got a quote for like 3k grafts from H&W and I'm probably a norwood 2-3 at 30. I don't think I'm diffuse thinning or anything either

Also, if they're doing skype consultations vs in person consultations, they might be able to notice a different hair quality than what they see on Skype. If your hair looks thin on skype but in person it's super thick and dense, then they might give you a lower graft count in person due to having better quality donor hair.

20 hours ago, voxman said:

Yeah...it's kind of off-putting. 

I changed my first screen name from 'Harry Balzsack" for that very reason.   

what are you trying to say here chief

On 1/14/2021 at 1:13 PM, JavierMarc said:

I know in our society's political creativeness climate, its not PC to talk about race, but is this something that should be considered when picking a Doctor?  What draws me to Deip is he is Asian and my natural assumption would be other Asian clients would gravitate towards another Asian doctor (especially international clients), giving that doctor more experience with hair properties attributed with Asian people.   Plus he is in the SF Bay area where it is already heavily populated with Asians.

Someone like say, Konior, my assumption would be about 5% of his clients are Asian (based on general demographic of US).

Thoughts?

Hasson & Wong are Asian too... Or at least the Wong in H & W is Asian. From Vancouver which is literally 90% Asian. Though from what I gather, they get their clients from everywhere. 

Idk if it's just the lighting but I can see your scalp pretty easily. I'm not all that sure your donor has the grafts Dr. Diep is claiming. If I had to guess... I'd say your density is below average there... Though I'm sure someone with more experience can say better

Also Dr. Diep saying he's better than H&W? Bold claim to say the least