deeznuts

That's a really good result after 5 months wow. The patients hair qualities look incredible as well for 2k grafts to look like that after 5 months. You would think with how dense this guys hair is, that he would need more but even at 5 months, you can't really tell unless you stare really intently

Usually with Asian patients they have really coarse hair but not density. This guy looks like he hit the lottery and got both. 

20 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Why would referring to someone who is of South Asian descent, as Asian, be super weird ? 
 

You are American regardless of whether you are from a northern state or southern state, aren’t you? 
 

OP I have replied to your PM 

Well using your analogy... You wouldn't refer to a Brazilian as an American even though they are from the Americas. 

Just the word Asian half the time refers to East Asians and the other half they include everyone in Asia. And then you have the UK who are doing their own thing as well. So yeah it's pretty confusing. 

Anyway, you don't think it's weird that one country refers to East Asians as Asian and the other refers to South Asian as Asian? I mean technically they're all Asian (which makes it more confusing) but clearly the word Asian means like 3 different things. When you refer to someone as Asian, you could be calling them South Asian (i.e. Indian), East Asian (i.e. Chinese) or being from the continent of Asia. So yeah it's pretty weird that one word somehow means 3 different things depending on where you live, whether you're using the word Asian in the literal sense or as part of the vernacular

Are we talking East Asian or South Asian?

I know in the UK they refer to South Asians as Asians which is super weird

What's the point of starting fin *after* your transplant?

Get started on that now, especially with how limited your budget is... You need as much coverage as possible for as little money as possible. You should be aiming to keep as much hair as possible and you should be aiming to limit the number of grafts that you need

I'm kind of a fan of going outside the traditional safe zone. I'd much prefer to have my hair an even density when possible. As long as the doctor can confidently determine what the real safe zone is. But you know, I'm a NW2 at 30. It makes no sense for me not to get extractions from some places (even the crown) where I'm super dense

It's totally normal I feel to have a different range.

Different doctors will have different goals. For example, some doctors will go for more density than other doctors. Or they might see a different hairline design for you. Some doctors love to err on the side of caution while others are more aggressive and are willing to take a bit more risk to give you the hairline you dream about.

My first consultation, the doctor recommended 1200 or 1500 grafts (I forget). Then I consulted with H & W and got a recommendation that was double that. The thing is, H&W wanted to dense pack my hairline while my local doc just wanted to be safe. 

It's not like either of them are wrong. 

I mean I can see why body hair would let you push the limits on the numbers transplanted.

If you have 5000 grafts transplanted, with 1000 hairs left in the donor...

You could transplant 1500 (i.e. overharvest), and mix it 50-50 (not sure the exact ratios that doctors use) into your scalp for 3000 grafts. And then put 500 back into your donor. 

Whereas, if you just relied on what your donor could give you, you would just be getting 2000 grafts if you mixed it 50-50 with body hair. 

The amount of hair I would speculate in my completely made up hypothetical scenario, assuming that scalp/body hair was mixed into your donor at a 50-50 ratio would be roughly 20 or 25% extra donor as you would harvest 70-80% of your donor, replenish 20%/25% with body hair to get to ~40-50% original density.

It makes a lot of sense because the donor is super valuable yet we don't ever mix the hairs in the donor with body hair even though in theory we should. Like it makes no sense that some people have a midscalp with 50-50 bodyhair/scalp grafts, but their donor is 100% scalp.

I'd really be curious about a breakdown based on patients specific situation such as doctor choice (maybe local vs hair mill vs elite doctor), balding pattern and hair/donor qualities.

Which doctors are we comparing?

Is this basically just Couto/Lorenzo/De Freitas vs H&W/Konior? 

3 hours ago, Zaro222 said:

 

 

Comparing with photos from other surgeries is misleading; there would be a whole range of photos of cases of 2300 grafts and how much area this would cover, and they would all be different. Placement of your grafts is depended on variables such as graft thickness, and we found your grafts to be healthy and thick. Because of this, to avoid them popping out, they were placed marginally wider apart than someone who would have thinner grafts. You use the comparison photo to suggest that the graft numbers my team planted are short, and this is something I reject. My team and I are very careful about counting graft numbers. My team harvested 2307 grafts. If it were 1200 grafts, as you suggest, we would have been finished the day by 3pm, not 6:30pm. 1200 grafts could never have covered this sort of area or given it much density. 1200 grafts would not give you a good result for this area and we expect to get a good result.  These grafts were sorted into single haired and multiples/groups, based on the number of roots not hairs. 30% were single haired grafts (1 root), and these were doubled and tripled with other single haired grafts to create better density for you. The plan was to densify the front area as much as possible. You would not get as good density with just single haired grafts. The photos that were taken immediately after the procedure show that your grafts were far more compact in some areas than your later photo suggests. Grafts do not always have crusts or tissue to see, especially when they are pushed in, so the surrounding tissue is flush with the scalp.  We can only advise you how to look after them, sleep with them and care for them and we cannot be responsible for what happens outside of our control. I understand you called technition the day after your procedure concerned that you had touched your grafts in your sleep and sent her a photo for clarification. Two of my technicians also mentioned to me that you expressed concern that you have a habit of touching your head at night-time, to which you were advised that we provide you with the necessary items to avoid this, but that it is up to you to be mindful of this."

 

that was their response. 

Wait, so they're claiming they just combined two or three single grafts to make a multi haired graft? I don't understand. Wouldn't it make sense to just extract a multihaired graft instead of trying to combine them

18 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Ahh I see, never see any results from this doc is he good?

People speculate he worked on Tom Brady. 

Any clue when the H&W topical dut is gonna drop?

I think you got the look where you can pull off shaving it

2 hours ago, qui bono said:

Yes basically. I went all along each cm of my transplant hairline and started cutting small chunks of hair out at the base - essentially removing 20 hairs or so each time. I kept doing this until I removed 600 hairs in total from my entire hairline

Before this the transplanted hair was so tightly packed together that it couldnt stand up properly (like it had no room to breathe). And the hair behind it wasnt dense enough to support it so the hairline just curved over radically creating a gap behind it. It was absolutely awful and so unnatural. A hair straightener only worked for a day. But then once I started thinning the hairline out everything went back to normal. This is called frontloading.

I still have problems ...  because I cant thin the hairline out evenly the hair will never sit naturally (it looks deflated with all the chunks taken out), so I have to smear wax in it to hold it together. I really dont like it but its better than it was. Im trying to find a clinic to punch out the grafts but its going to risk a lot of scarring.

I had begun writing a review but it got taken down. Im waiting to hear from Melvin.

I think there are scissors that you can use to thin out your hair. It might be a lot easier than cutting small chunks at a time.

Looks something like this: https://www.amazon.ca/Professional-ULG-Hairdressing-Texturizing-Detachable/dp/B0722K651D

Whenever I get my haircut, the stylist always uses something like that on my hair

2 hours ago, qui bono said:

It looks god awful and unnatural at higher density as well.

I had a surgeon dense pack my hairline at over 70 FU per cm and its been an absolute nightmare. The hairline curved over so radically I couldnt straighten it, and that curve was so radical it created an artificial gap behind it. I couldnt even comb my hair because it was so rigid and my friends all laughed at it. It took me 15 months to figure out what they did.

Absolutely no need for that sort of density unless youre a NW2 going to NW1 and youre trying to match the transplanted hair to your native density (and in that circumstance I'd question why youre getting a HT in the first place).

 

 

 

Is it for sure the density and not the angling or multihairs grafts in the hairline?

I can see 80 being kinda reasonable if your native density is insane, and you've got minimal loss (NW2), and you've got minimal foreseeable loss, and you have very fine hairs, and you have high contrast between skin and hair. i.e. the perfect candidate for high density

1 hour ago, Zaro222 said:

The agreed number was 2300 grafts

I could be totally wrong lol. Gotta wait til it grows in though for sure

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

While I got your point, and some are really good ones, I still disagree in some aspects.

Like I said: In the very first hairline values around 65 can be achieved. Often this already requires several surgeries. The 70 of Rahal is close to that (and also partly marketing IMO), but the cases of him in here which come only close to this number, also required a second surgery to achieve that. 

In the area behind the hairline, the numbers are significantly lower for several reasons.

- The bigger multies would make it more challenging to dense pack.

- It is not required and

- Almost no one would have the grafts anyway.

I doubt that 55+ is achieved in other areas besides some extreme outliers. 

And to bring the 80 in perspective: 4000 grafts would only be enough for 50 cm2.

- That is much less area than my crown and I had 2900 FU with a good result

- For an average hairline of 16 cm this would be just enough to lower the hairline 3.1 cm.

- Even the case you have shown (which is an outlayer by himself, if you look into the HW cases in the forum) is bigger IMO as the treated area will expand deep into the areas where there is still hair. 

 

 

I think you might potentially see 80 closer to the hairline I'd imagine. But yeah, looking at some results from other doctors it looks like they're putting 3k in a much smaller area and still only getting something like 60. Probably a bad example

I think the crown is a different beast though, the hairline is mostly singles and it's the thing that people actually look at so the density there is probably going to be a fair amount higher than anywhere else. Not really sure it's a fair comparison. 

Actually, I found an article from the Hasson and Wong website claiming 80 grafts/cm2. (control+f 80) https://hassonandwong.com/our-journey-to-fue/

From the pics I've seen of post-op transplant work, the density looks really low. That looks like a few hundred grafts in the frontal third if I had to guess which is really low. I could be wrong though since I haven't seen a lot of post-op pics compared to other posters I'm sure.

I think in that area, you would usually see 2k-4k grafts

14 hours ago, aaron1234 said:

You are transplanting the root (hair bulb), not the hair itself.  So pluck if you want, though there is a theory that hairs can only survive so much plucking.  Case in point, women's eyebrows from the 90's. 

That's some pretty good news for my unibrow

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

Maybe their rep was talking hairs not grafts or he had one glass of wine too much 😉

Nah. H&W are known for dense packing. I found an article by Dr. Rahal talking about doing 70 graft/cm2. It's probably not too much of a stretch for a clinic with a ton of results of them putting 3000, 3500 grafts in the hairline to be able to attain 80 grafts/cm2. For what it's worth, they said they would use their judgment to decide what they should shoot for in the range of 50-80 grafts/cm2 so I doubt they actually go for 80 most of the time.

https://www.rahalhairtransplant.com/many-grafts-need-full-head-hair/#:~:text=Here are Rahal Hairline™,may experience in the future.

edit: like this dude had 4k grafts put in his hairline. I legitimately believe that 80 is possible if the patient has the donor density and the recipient density to warrant it

https://hassonandwong.com/hair-transplant-results/fue-hair-transplant-4035-grafts/

24 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I don’t have to ask them that I already got the answer, they do. Here in my interview with Dr. Wong. Certain countries don’t allow it to be shipped. They’re working on getting it shipped to the US, etc. 
 

Dr. Wong he says it will be the new gold standard 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/COJn2--HCrt/?igshid=11o363rwdljh7

Nice. I wonder how I can get a prescription from them if I'm on the other side of Canada...

Will there be a megathread for the Dr. Hasson instagram live?

8 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

I seriously doubt that. 65 is already unreal transplanted density for the hairline and maybe something like 50 for the areas behind. 

Dunno, that's what their rep told me. You can always ask them yourself if you're looking for more density

Heat does damage your hair. Hard to say without knowing anything else.

14 hours ago, Huncholini said:

It depends on your definition of perfection, for me that would be the hair I had when I was 15/16. I remember the thick luscious locks I had at that age and the reality simply is that no surgeon in the world can replicate that because 1) no surgeon transplants at a density of 90 FU/cm2 2) no patient has a donor good enough to return their scalp to its 15/16 year old self esp if they're already >NW2 3) Any ethical surgeon will explain to you that a hair transplant gives you the illusion of density, because I think max density they can implant is up to 40-50 FU/cm2. So IMO, hair transplants are absolutely not perfect.

I think the max density might be closer to double that. When I consulted with H&W they suggested that they could do up to 80 which is pretty much near native density. Though I doubt they would do 80 on a guy with 80 naturally. 

I think perfect isn't the right word. But they can definitely check all the boxes, restore you to NW1 status with decent density (though not native density) in the hairline in the right candidate. So in my opinion, that's more than good enough.