BigBen

@Anthonyd You can see the transplanted grafts in the day-after-surgery photo, the recipient area is just the front. I do it but I don't feel comfortable sharing my photos. Melvin and others have seen the whole head in other photos. I had hair before the hair transplant everywhere else including the crown and I have a good donor area and hair calibre, thicker than I thought. I only needed hair transplant on the front, even the temples seemed fine to the doctor so the temples didn't get any grafts. The hairline is where the attention was focused on. I like the new hairline but the density is too low and also there are some gaps. It should be between 44 and 48 grafts per square centimetre.

Yes, I met a patient that told me that a girl did his incisions, that's why I made sure that Koray Erdogan did the incisions on my head because I didn't want a technician to do them. And yes, Koray Erdogan did my incisions.

@jj51702 OK, I'll let you know what they say when they reply.

@Gasthoerer As I explained, the recipient area is the front but I had diffuse hair loss so even for me it's impossible to know exactly what is the original and the transplanted hair. Not that it matters much because the result in my case should be between 44 and 48 grafts per square centimetre including natural and transplanted hair and obviously I'm not even near.

@jj51702 To the first email they replied right away but once I attached the photos it's over a week now with no response. I just sent the email again.

15 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

Very nice write up! Sorry, that you are not happy. 

Please put some more effort in before, intra and after pics so that we have chance to support you. 

Thank you.

I attach more photos. All the photos that I have posted this far are with dry hair under natural light. Density is low along the hairline with some gaps.

A hair transplant was done just on the front with a lot of grafts as you can see in the photo of the day after. They used 48 grafts per square centimetre and now there are portions where the number of grafts is really low as you can see in this other photo that I just took. The ink lines measure one centimetre wide for reference.

@Fozzie I had no idea that there were 4 to 6 surgeries per day (4 my day) and I had made my research. I think that we should never question patients about what a clinic does, not even indirectly. As you said, information about HTs is blurry with good and bad results and so many doctors but Koray Erdogan was considered one of the best in the world when I checked the forums to choose mine. You can only blame a patient who chose an unknown doctor, a cheap doctor or a doctor with bad reputation.

Even if one year ago some people that were researching for their HT knew that there are 4 to 6 surgeries per day in Asmed that's not the information that affects a patient directly but the consequences of that decision such as unknown technicians doing the majority of the work. The problem is not exactly the number of surgeries but the consequences. Only after I had my HT done, more subpar cases appeared that were a year old because you can't judge any result until after one year has passed. Besides, the clinic representative I had talked to never told me about more than one surgery at the same time and I never asked because I would have never suspected that. However, as mentioned before, the problem is how that kind of business decisions affects real patients.

When he says that they comply with policies outlined by the Turkish Health Ministry, of course they do, who knows if to a minimum level and let's get real, Turkey is not the best example of regulations of any kind and it's not part of the European Union, that's why no one would go to a clinic in Turkey unless recommended so that paragraph means nothing to me.

He can say that they use expensive technology and nobody questions that (expensive technology pays off) and the clinic is very clean. I do doubt the qualification and experience of the technicians because they didn't want to tell their names though and because there are a lot and some of them are recent workers.

He always says that he needs assistants and that he can't do everything on his own but he is no the only doctor in the world with this problem, they normally solve it by reducing the number of surgeries so they can focus on one and have all the assistants around. If you have four to six surgeries per day and he is only 10 minutes for the incisions as it was my case then he is not really taking responsibility and supervising each process. I have heard of people that had the incisions done by another person and that they didn't see the doctor at all except for the 5 minutes the day before that he takes to check your hair, hair calibre and draw the new hairline. The only logical reason to have 4 to 6 full surgeries per day is to make 4 to 6 times more money. Why I wonder when you are rich already and your reputation is being questioned.

Words can be as pretty as you want them to be but the only thing that matters is facts and results. A serious doctor addresses the problems directly without resorting to marketing-like talk.

4 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

This forum has always been open about how it operates though. They have never lied. Unfortunately, yes, this will always lead to questions. 

Either way, I sincerely hope that they have reached out to both Dr. Erdogan and Dr. Bhatti about the recent results. Erdogan in particular went from world class results to some absolutely shockers recently. Something has drastically changed in that clinic and I can only assume it relates to his lack of involvement in the procedure. Unfortunately this forum did lead me to believe he was the best in Turkey which was not the case at all.  

I chose Koray Erdogan because this forum also made me believe that he was the best in Turkey and one of the best in Europe but his lack of involvement in the process and the four full surgeries taking place at the same time I did not know until I was there and this is the big problem with Asmed in recent times and the proof is the subpar results. My result also lacks density  like @kw877 so I will count how many grafts have grown per square centimetre and contact the clinic. Like somebody said on the last page, it's not just a lot of money but it affects our mood in a very deep and negative way.

I posted my results.

Lately, I have been seeing many recent cases from Koray Erdogan's clinic that have low density and unsatisfactory hairline but I have remained positive until the end. Now after one year, the density in my hairline is much lower than what I expected and than what they had guaranteed, at least 90% growth of 48 grafts transplanted per square centimetre, which is at the very least 44 grafts per square centimetre. I only had the front done, what you can see in the photos, because I have a lot of hair elsewhere. Also, my hair calibre is the same everywhere, 61 microns, which is slightly above average (55). I will contact the doctor about my results.

I haven't counted the grafts that have grown on my head but I will. The problem with my result is also density. Koray Erdogan offers 90% growth guarantee but a touch up seems risky for several reasons. Firstly, it is likely done by technicians, this clinic have many technicians, they work fast and you don't know what their experience is, they didn't even want to tell me their names. If the job is not nicely done you are losing donor grafts for nothing. On top of that, if not done properly, the touch up could destroy grafts that are safe now because in our cases and in some other recent cases I've seen by Koray, the problem is low density and not just one empty area which would be easier to fix. Working in between healthy grafts is an extremely delicate job and the question here is this doctor cares enough. A partial refund makes more sense.

3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

He doesn't give refunds as to him this is an admission that other doctors can do a better job. Pretty funny considering he has jack shit to do with the surgery himself. 

He offers a 90% growth guarantee though?

We both are almost at the one year mark with the same doctor and I am also disappointed (understatement) with the density. I will probably post photos on my own thread. The doctor offers a 90% growth guarantee so we should either ask for partial refund or ask for a free touch-up after the first year. The only problem with the touch-up is that it will have to be done on a wide area where healthy grafts have grown and that should only be done carefully by the best technicians or the doctor himself.

I was with kw877 at Asmed and we had the HT done with only a few days of difference. I haven't posted here recently but I wanted to thank you publicly for all your posts and your own thread. Every person that posts their results not being sponsored are very generous, not for the time spent but for that privacy they are exposing somehow. They deserve all the support, honesty and constructive feedback they can get.

The pain was also unbearable for me but the anaesthetic came and gave me a higher dose. I was suffering for two weeks after the HT because of a pain deep in my head and painkillers didn't help but after the first weeks I started feeling great again. I guess the nerves just healed. I don't think that FUT would have been better for you, FUE was the right choice for you.

Do you remember the Bepanthol lotion that they gave us for the scalp? Keep using that on the irritated areas, I also have sensitive skin and it has been good and no allergies reactions whatsoever. If you don't like to have lotion soaking your hair do it when you are at home and/or some time before having a shower, styling your hair and hitting the street. I had that tiny dandruff that is not because of greasy scalp but because of dry and irritated scalp and using this or any other hypoallergenic lotion helps. Also, what shampoo are you using? Try using hypoallergenic shampoo like the one they gave us (Sebamed), for sensitive scalp it is better than trying fancy shampoos with special properties in the long term.

You are absolute right when you say that if the HT result doesn't look good under direct light then it's not a satisfying result when the person is young and the hair loss wasn't that bad to begin with. The result should look good under direct light and the good results prove that.

As you know I am not happy with my own results yet either, the lack of density is very obvious in the hairline, but we are at the fifth month mark so we have to stay positive because it's not definitive. Yes, there are some fast results but we might have slower growth.

You say that you can't see the incisions in those gaps, I will check my gaps and see if I can find incisions (I haven't checked that) but I have noticed new thin hairs, not everywhere unfortunately but I hope that more will sprout. Are you sure that you have not found any shorter or thinner hairs in the recipient area (the hairline is the easiest part to check)?

I see that your donor has what looks like a round area where density is lower. Give it time, if you keep the hair short on the back side compare the photos and see if it's filling up with time. My donor is lower density now but it's quite uniform. I will get a new hair cut soon with that area short and I will see if density has improved there.

11 hours ago, kw877 said:

Good that you find people’s anxiety and disappointment in their hair surgery ‘hilarious’

Dishonest why? Because they don’t align with your experience? Just because someone’s opinion and experience differs from yours, does not make then dishonest. Name calling again.

Stupid comments and lies with intent to mislead...by speaking on their experience?

So people who have negative experiences shouldn’t speak on it? Yes other clinics have bad results. All Drs will. However, that doesn’t absolve every other clinic from being held accountable to their patients. And it certainly doesn’t mean people should stay quiet of their result isn’t what they were led to expect. To suggest that one should put up and shut up because all doctors have bad results isn’t an argument. 

You say hes he’s the loudest, but you always seem to be one post behind. A post that’s 10x longer, full of name calling and aggression and it’s in almost every one of his comments. 

 

Actually a forum is just that, a free for all to express their experience and opinions. As for braindead and irrational, time to knock that nonsense on the head isn’t it?

Also, it’s ridiculously hypocritical that you’re talking of how we shouldn’t censor people. You’re trying to do just that to anyone with a negative opinion. Food for thought.

Yeah you don’t really seem to do anything else to be honest

Im starting to wonder if you can finish a paragraph without insulting someone...

Again, insults. 

 

Really bored of this drama. For some reason you keep chasing certain members around the forum trying to junk what they have to say. This forum is for all of us, and any attempt to silence any negative reviews is massively problematic. Like I said before, it’s important for prospective patients to see ALL sides. ALL experiences and they can then weigh up their decision. In future I suggest you politely disagree or ignore and move on. You can’t seem to keep a civility to your posts and frankly it’s dampening the forum. My two cents. 

Which I’m entitled to btw

Well said. I don't even know who is he talking about on each paragraph because he makes 99% of his statements up especially when talking about other users.

The lies, manipulation, hypocrisy, toxicity and aggressions of this user towards others, myself included, should not be tolerated. He is lying, intoxicating and trying to ridicule any person that is critical of the doctor or clinic of his choice or reporting a bad result. I really don't understand how this can be tolerated on this forum. I really want to know what moderators are going to do about this. He can talk about his own experience but he shouldn't be allowed to do what he is doing to other people. Some people don't want to post just because of him, because he is a bully. Just read all the insults and stalking behaviour, breaking every behaviour forum rule and yet not being banned.

I would like to say that I agree with Bill that every doctor has subpar results for different reasons. I also agree with Melvin that patients should wait one year before calling their results a failure even if late growth typically means a worse result. I haven't even called Payam's result a failure yet because I want to see if things improve for him. I have seen other Koray Erdogan's cases that I consider a failure after a year and I also have seen one of the best results I've ever seen made by this very same doctor. Because again, no doctor has a flawless curriculum. I see how the unhappy patients move back and forth after a year in their opinions, something that LordBalwin mentioned above. They want to convince themselves that it's not that bad and I feel sad for them because they are just trying to feel better. We should not say that they look great but support them.

I have been reading this forum for years before my HT with Koray Erdogan, especially doctors and surgeries reviews. I started to be more active recently when I made up my mind. I have provided sincere feedback about any results that I have checked (including results from other doctors) while being respectful with everybody. I have provided zero feedback about my own result because only three months have passed. I have only talked about my experience in the clinic which is the same as the other people that have been there recently. I will say the truth about my result when the time comes, whether it is positive as I obviously desire and hope or it is negative and I really hope that if it's negative I will find comfort and help in here, but not white lies or personal attacks.

Every doctor has subpar results but every result should be considered and every recommended doctor on this forum should be willing to talk with the unhappy patients too. I understand that they won't post the bad results on their website but they should care about their patients privately, even more when the patients are not satisfied than when they are. If they are happy, good for you, another success. If they are not happy, talk to them, don't delay responses and don't try to get rid of them. That is not ethical. Money aside, for every one of us this is a lifetime investment of grafts.

41 minutes ago, kw877 said:

Im far too early on to be able to tell yet, just hit 3 months. Im just worried as there seems to be a lot of results lately that are super sparse and very low density. Im realistic in expectations and never expected it to be as dense as my native hair but at least enough to work with without combovers or masking products like Toppik etc. otherwise theres not much point is there. Theres a couple of Asmed bulldogs on here that jump on anyone with anything negative to say about the clinic and I think its becoming a problem. To try and push people out of their honest opinions on their own experiences is wrong and absolutely not what id want when researching clinics. I want to know what ALL patients have to say and why they are happy or unhappy. 

Its obvious that people have researched before going to Asmed, as I did. I was super impressed by the results, which is why I and others chose them. My experience was fantastic in that everyone at the clinic couldn't do enough for me and the doctor was very warm and patient with me. Im hoping my result will reflect what everyone expects of Asmed going off their previous record and that the last few are in the minority, time will tell!

That being said Im going to be honest either way, regardless of the bulldogs

I totally agree. I want to read what everyone has to say whether it's positive, negative or a mixed bag and not speculation about patients' mental stability or honesty.

People that we know that were there with us and had concerns, issues or complaints don't talk so you know for sure there is more than the few brave people speaking loud and clear.

Quickly come these very suspicious people to call unhappy patients liar, mentally unstable, "why do you post only on Asmed threads and not evaluate other clinics?" This was addressed to me by the most aggressive and obvious of them all, JeanLDD.

If you get a HT at Asmed you are basically checking Asmed results before and after the HT, but not all the threads about all the doctors on all the forums (glad that some people have so much free time) and if you say what others have said about the clinic you are not lying. We are not professional reviewers of HTs so we don't have to review every case and every doctor but they are already in defence mode before you even know, even bashing other doctors. Why I wonder. 

What's the reasoning behind "Your expectations were not realistic" that some people get here as response? People choose a HT and a doctor because they have seen other people's results with similar hair loss and not because one night they had a dream about how their hair would look if they had a HT done by whatever doctor. Their expectations are based on real cases and not on fantasies. If hoping for a good result is unrealistic what's the point of the surgery and choosing a good doctor?

We don't need to read aggressive bulldog(s) on every thread like they have to be everywhere bullying anyone who has a critical opinion like undercover representatives or lawyers. That's not what a forum is for. If they don't feel comfortable with unsatisfied patients they should not be everywhere and just post their results and their experiences on their own threads and stop right there because they are just annoying people that have suffered enough already and not helping anybody but a doctor's reputation. Again, this is not what a forum is for.

That kind of evasive and delayed responses from Asmed that HT0416 has detailed has also been reported by other members like Jonyny (as can be seen on his thread) and it worries me because I expect the doctor to mantain his quality standards and 90% growth guarantee when a disappointing or subpar result happens instead of trying to get rid of the unhappy patients.

57 minutes ago, HG1 said:

Hi Guys thanks for the comments. I will try and get some better resolution photos posted, together with it brushed forward and scrapped back. I may come across as Pro Asmed, I'm not - just trying to give honest feedback. 

Ben,

I will be honest the hairline does contain a few doubles, but it really doesn't bother me one bit. As I've said previously the general public are mostly unaware of grafts having multiple hairs (my experience anyway). I'm wearing my hair to one side so the hairline is no really visible. I can honestly say that my hair looks as good as it did 25 years ago, when I was in my mid 20's, obviously when styled correctly

It's true that the top has much more hair than before the HT and considering how you looked before the HT, the difference is huge, it's not an illusion but a real and big improvement as I have told you privately, even if it doesn't look that great when wet as you seem to suggest. However, I noticed that something about the hairline, you don' have to show it in detail or better resolution if you don't want to, obviously. Every person has the right to show what they want to show, even if sometimes it makes us more curious.

As Melvin and other people have seen, in my case I only had hair loss in the front area (NW3-ish) so, honestly, I expect a good density in the front and a good hairline as other people that had NW3 before the HT have achieved. I am at the third month mark, I have been told that now is when growth starts.

14 hours ago, yesplease said:

This is a huge improvement, congrats. 

 

To demonstrate the opposite side of the coin, it would be really useful to see what it looks like when you make it look “less flattering” by not styling it just so or by combing it apart or perhaps when it’s a little wet. These are perspectives that we often don’t see when a member showcases their results, and it would be really useful to have both perspectives. That said, I understand if you’d rather not. Either way, again, congrats. 

And closer, the photos are a bit far away and low-resolution. It's hard to see the hairline at all.

On 10/18/2018 at 4:33 PM, Steeeve said:

BigBen, I think jj is referring to this.

Luke, just to clarify, when did you take these two photos? How many months after the HT? Thanks in advance. Your thread is very good and as I have said before, your new hairline is awesome and even the photos are very professional.

28 minutes ago, Cristian1 said:

Is Dr. Koray Erdogan operates himself? From taking the grafts and implant in the head? I heard that he is not doing the whole process and he lets his unexperienced stuff to do this which result in very bad results and unsatisfied customers. 

I myself was considering to go on his clinic hoping that he will do all the process, from end to start but apparently, it's not how I was thinking or I'm I wrong? Can anyone tell me from their own experience, who has been to him and made a HT how it is?

I really wanted to make myself a HT on him... I've seen such good results.

As posted by many recent patients, myself included, in recent years he has streamlined the surgery process. This year the clinic performs four big HTs per day at the same time by means of technicians.

There is a lot of people working there and every one has a role. The doctor performs the incisions but on the website this is not explained properly as shown on another thread about Turkish doctors, at least until this summer '18. In at least one case that I know he did not perform the incisions either but in my case he did them.There is an expert technician working with him since the beginning (Dilek) but she can only be at one room at any given time and that's the same for the doctor.

About results, you can check many recent cases linked on this very thread and judge for yourself. Some are great and others lack density after a year because not enough grafts bloomed. However, he still offers a 90% survival rate guarantee so in case you get less you are offered a touchup.

Other patients and I don't comment about our results because not enough time has passed by.

I hope that this clears your doubts.

For the record, I also think that Payam should post just once a month for his own good. This thread is way too intense for being a recent case.

12 hours ago, Mick50 said:

I think Payam's situation to a degree is symptomatic of the whole hair transplant industry in general ,there just isn't enough honesty about what can be achieved  with a hair transplant   and the actual results , clinics ,naturally most  would argue, show their best results on their websites, and people who have had great results, myself included, come on here to get admired and congratulated which is great ,but if we agree clinics show their best results, by definition there are results which are not as good and maybe they are more the norm than the home-runs that are proudly shown .

In an ideal world there would also be some pre-phychological screening by the clinics  ,there are some people who are obviously not equipped to deal with having a transplant and all that it entails , in my opinion it makes good business sense anyway to do this ,,as an unhappy unhinged patient with a perceived  bad result can do a lot of damage to a clinic , surely Docs know that a guy losing his hair especially young  guys can suffer form severe depression , and just taking a bit of time possibly with  trained psychologist  to talk through the whole thing would be worth it, because as I say an unhappy unhinged  patient will take down as many people as possible  online etc 

 

I agree but also the clinics should be more honest. Once you make contact with them you expect them to explain all the important stuff, one doesn't think that Google is going to be more knowledgeable or accurate about the Dr/clinic than the website of the clinic or the clinic's representatives. In this case the website was (don't know if it still is or was corrected) ambiguous regarding the doctor intervention and this was proven on another thread and verified by administrators.

Payam is not the only one complaining about Asmed, he is just the most vocal, some patients don't want to say anything negative in case they need to go back. I know a few.

I don't know how much psychological strength one is supposed to have when we all obviously have some insecurities about our hair, but if he is insecure why make him feel worse like aggressive members do over and over (we know who is)? Why is that allowed?

In my case there were things unknown to me until I was there but I stay positive because I believe that that is what I have to do until this wait game is over and that is Payam's only mistake, being pessimistic early on.

However, he has the same right to talk about his case as anybody else. At this stage every one of us would have doubts about our result if we were him. And even worse, if anybody else has a disappointing result will he be brave enough to post it? Most of the forum members are supportive and good people but just one devastating comment written with an intention to hurt you or humiliate you when you already feel down can be quite negative.

On 10/21/2018 at 9:24 PM, Payam said:

I'm not going back there its too risky, you have no idea which techs you are getting on a given day, clearly they have tech teams that perform better than others judging by the results I've seen. We don't know anything about these people, age, education, not even names. They look in their mid twenties at most yet the clinic claims they have at least 5 years of surgical experience? How is that even possible are they pick them out of high school or something?

Clinic is pretty much ignoring me now as well. I'm doing them the courtesy of mostly containing my criticisms to this thread for now. In the end i will know what my yield was.

 

Yes, I know that you are saying the truth because it was the same the day I was there and people including myself were a bit surprised to see the four of us getting +2000 grafts each in the same morning. It was worrying. We were introduced quickly to the assigned technicians. Some of the recent results that have been posted by patients are not as I had expected. Dr Erdogan's replies on this forum are a bit too generic and doesn't really answer anything. Some other results from this clinic are pretty good, basically the ones I had checked before going there. I am a bit worried but I can only hope and wait that mine is one of the good results.

5 minutes ago, hairlossPA said:

this thread is unnecessarily long for no reason.

22 notifications for this thread in less than 24 hours. I can't keep up.

I had not seen those two, yes, there is an area with low density in the middle.