Ventuoguy

It does appear that Emporer's hairline was implanted at a lower overall density than some other H&W patients. Obviously this was a conscious decision on the part of Dr. Wong. There are alot of little outcroppings of single hair grafts it appears that are of fairly low implanted density. This, coupled with what appears to be fine donor hair, and a fairly high contrast ratio scalp/hair color I believe accounts for the result. Comparing Emporer's result to Jotronics result from his FIRST HT, I'd say that the primary difference in result is due to the fact that Joe has more dirty blonde type hair which is closer to his scalp color. Remember, also that Jotronic had mini/micro grafts already there prior to Dr. Wong's work and Dr. Wong was camoflaging them. Remember that even though Dr. Wong was hiding Joe's micrografts, those grafts DO add to density in my opinion.

Ok guys- My recommendation is that folks who want to post their honest experiences on this forum just have a little bit of legal understanding prior to doing so. A bit of legal savvy (knowing what you are 'allowed/can' do) can help educate the commmunity, convey the same information, but AVOID the threatening letters, emails, and lawsuits. The letter to Balboa mentions "defamation." Defamation really are FALSE/UNTRUE statements that discourage one party to associate or enter into business with another party. Statement 1- This HT doctor is a crook a thief and a butcher!! He ruined my life and hacked my head up!! If you go to him, he will do the same thing to you!! Statement 2- I am extremely disappointed in my HT results. I feel my life has been ruined. My expectations were far from met. Please take a look at my 12 month results and judge for yourself. Statement 1 may be construed as defamation because you are stating the doctor is a crook and a thief, and leading one to believe that they will have the same result that you will. This may be true, but it may not. Also statement one states the doctor is a thief-meaning he stole someone's property. Did he? He provided the surgery in exchange for a fee. He did not take the money and do nothing. Statement 2 also expresses bitter disappointment but the personal and perhaps defamatory comments were avoided. Subjective information about your experience is provided as well as objective information (photos) which are far more powerful than the defamatory comments anyway. Second piece of advice is-AVOID making threats. Threats are easy to see-they are statements that contain "if/then" type language. "If you don't refund my money, then I will sue you." You can ask for a refund if you wish, but it's best to not guise it in a threat. This will only embolden the other side and have them 'dig in' against you. With respect to the "Independent Partner Agreement" it seems like it's a curious document. Even though I have not seen the agreement, it seems like it may not be legally inforceable. It seems to be reaching beyond the typical doctor-patient relationship. It cites the HT patient's 'obligation' to the surgeon. The only 'obligation' should be a financial one. However, it seems to have some type of gag clause in it as well. I hope this helps-i'm not an attorney but have had plenty of experience in this arena... unfortunately.

Gorgeous result! Notice however how this patient maintains a good hairstyle for his hair type.

Severn-I know what it is, my question was, did Emporer have a tricophytic closure? If so, why is it so much more visible than expected?

I do have to say even though it may be perceived as in rather poor taste, but EinAA has the WORST spelling I have ever seen in ANY web post, blog, article, email, essay, forum, letter, book, magazine, memorandum, text message, or any other form of written communication that I have cast my gaze on in my entire life. Ok I got it out of my system, now let the thread continue.

Emporer- Was that a tricophytic closure?

Emporer- I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to how Dr. Wong "cuts his grafts." There should be no variability in how the grafts are cut. The follicular unit is to be respected. Microscopic inspection and dissection should dictate the follicular units and you should have your 'ones' 'twos' 'threes' and 'fours' depending on what was contained within your strip. I am not aware that H&W violates this principle. Most of the 'ones' should be placed in the hairline to soften it. That was the problem with the old pluggy grafts-too many hairs/graft in the hairline giving the doll's hair appearance. Perhaps H&W might realize during the dissection and placement of your grafts that it would be better to cut some of the multi-hair FU's into single hair grafts. I believe they would have consulted you during your procedure to alert you of this recommendation?

Thanks Bill for your transparency and attention. It was kind of a suprise. I do realize that things need to get paid for. I also did not realize until this past weekend while digging through the site that Dr. Armani has sued this website. Obviously there are large amounts of emotions stirred up by this topic. Emotions that our non-follicularly challenged brethren don't experience. Kudos to Bill and Pat!

Wait a minute- does a physician have to pay to be endorsed on this site??

My opinion is that it's not as simple in having the density of transplanted grafts which can be "calculated" or "visualized" on a computer animation, it's what the physician can realistically achieve, along with his staff Dense pack techniques can be more prone to failure, as you attempt to increase the density of the packing, you may decrease the survival/yield! This can happen for numerous reasons but we all know an 80% yield on 60grafts/cm2 is less than 100% yield on 50grafts/cm2. I think most of the 'failures' that have been shown here, the initial photos showed very dense looking packing and everyone is wondering why the yield is so low. Poor surgeon judgement and local conditions cause faiure in hair transplants.

The problem is Than that DP'sP is "locked and loaded". The transplant is imminent and he apparently is committed financially, logistically, and emotionally. No amount of well-meaning dissuasion from this forum will change the inevitable. So all we can do now is be supportive and wish him the best of luck (luck to Dr. Pak too) to achieve his goal!

That's a bit of an oversimplificaton. I would disagree with the transection rate as a starter.

Hello- Judging from what has been presented, I too think you will need 3500-4000 grafts. Others have suggested leaving the country to go 3/4 of the way around the world; I have a different suggestion: 1) You are 45 and the new hairline is permanent. Your 'old' hairline is quite low, and was quite low for a 36 year old as well. Perhaps bringing the hairline up a few millimeters from your youthful hairline is the best idea (i.e. modifiying your expectations.) Each millimeter of hairline might be 100 grafts or so. 2) Continue on the propecia for a year and save extra $$$. Then plan the HT with Dr. Pak next year this time. Also- I think your pictures are too close for a fair assessment. Just a ballpark guess. The cranium is a spherical structure and it's difficult to judge 3D aspects when the pictures are too close (and from two different angles). Best to have someone help frame some better pictures to see exactly how much real-estate needs to be covered. I, like lots of the neurotic, self-obsessed, nerdy guys on here have tried to take pictures with an outstretched arm and it's just too hard to do. I have finally broken down and purchased a cheap tripod (and learned how to use the time shutter feature on my camera) to really take some objective pictures to forward to the coalition doctors.

Here is my advice to everyone: 1) Firstly, DO NOT sign any paper without getting a copy of the paperwork that you signed. Everyone is speculating what are the contents of the documents that were signed. I would suggest all members when they book a HT appt politely ask for copies of ALL documentation you will be asked to read and/or sign-for your information purposes. 2)Agreed-documents signed after being provided a hypnotic drug by the physician would not be legally valid (however, if you did receive copies in the mail prior, one could argue that the documents may be valid.) 3) Of course we don't know the contents of the documents signed, however, confidentiality agreements are usually BUSINESS arrangements and contain provisions in which state that there are "mutual considerations" meaning--that it is important for both parties to maintain confidentiality for a business reason. In other words, one party would suffer damage in case of a breech of confidentiality, yet BOTH parties have and advantage to MAINTAIN the confidentiality. What advantage does this woman's husband have to maintain the confidentiality? NONE. It is highly unlikely that a doctor-patient relationship would fall in the same category. 3) Look up the words: slander, libel, and defamation of character. These all involve making statements that are not FACTUALLY CORRECT. I cannot see how there would be a legal ramification if honest photos of this HT result with a person's journal of their experience related to the HT can fall under any of those legal terms. 4)AVOID a lawsuit. You will spend more money than the original HT and will not get a penny back most likely. Avoid "throwing good money at bad money." As other members have said, best to use the money to go to one of the esteemed doctors discussed on this site for a repair, PERIOD. 5)My advice would be: a) get a lawyer to write a letter to Armani demanding copies of all medical records/paperwork signed. Have the lawyer evaluate the paperwork along the lines above and give you legal advice [i am not a lawyer.] b)Follow lawyers advice, and if permitted, post negative experiences with Armani while avoiding personal attacks-on this website. c)File a complaint to the medical board which grants Armani and his clinic it's license to practice. Good luck!!!!

Thanatopsis- ABSOLUTELY missteps in day 2 day operation can spoil a result. How much difference in the simple act of taking a graft out of a petrie dish and installing it in a recipient site does it take to destroy the follicle. There would be not that much difference in the handling-certainly nothing perceptible to an untrained observer. Is the tech taking the graft by the teensy weensy bit of tissue surrounding it or is she(or he, theoretically) grabbing the follicle itself and applying too much pressure on the forceps, etc. My theory is that a combination of poorly created recipient sites (too small/big and too short/long) along with graft dessication/storing at room temperature, long delays between harvest and implantation and improper handling are all factors. TTP's result is less than average, but not horrible. Goodness-there have been displays of MUCH worse results than his on this site and others! Let's face it-there are going to be factors that are ethereal and hard to define that contribute to failure. I also happen to think that some failures occur because of blood flow compromise in the recipient zone. Trauma to microvasculature that nourishes the scalp from dull blades/needles that tear the flesh instead of neatly cleaving it probably are a factor as well in my opinion. A good surgeon meticulously preserves blood flow to the area he is operating on. Good blood flow brings oxygen and other nutrients, antibiotics that fight infection, white blood cells that fight infection and proteins and clotting factors that start the inflammatory/healing process. There was a failure on here a few months back in which the surgeon transplanted all around a central forelock tuft of hair remaining natively. The grafts grew but the native hair fell out leaving scalp that in my opinion looked like it was compromised by the trauma and disrupted blood flow from the grafts completely surrounding it. I happen to feel that result was direct result of less than optimal planning by the surgeon.

It's probably because it is smooth and if the hat shifts, it won't dislodge the grafts. It doesn't appear to be the best option for healing however. It will trap perspiration. Generally good airflow is better for healing.

I would have to agree with your statements by and large Pharma. However, I would add one caveat and that is that I have seen youthful hairline restorations from H and W, but have not seen any examples of more mature Rahal patients. I don't know whether it's a selection bias, that only the youthful post on here from Rahal, or it's more his actual patient population. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen a single grey hair on any Rahal patients whatsoever! Regarding who to go to, H&W vs. Rahal-how can one possibly decide? It's like literally "splitting hairs!!" No pun intended. Then remember, if you go H&W you still then must decide amongst the doctors. You cannot lose going to any of those three-I am deciding amongst them myself at this point

Wow- that is clearly the work of a physician/team at the top of their game. Congratulations!!!

This is an interesting thread. What is being talked about here alot of the time is the use and definition of various words. Is everyone familiar with the definition of word 'average?' Perhaps alot of the mudslinging could be minimized if we all understood and used the correct definitions of the terms here. If you look at coalition doctors, I think what a coalition doctor who achieves great results on a consistent basis is committed to mitigating every factor which may cause failure that is under their DIRECT control. Of course their a myriad of factors that have been discussed ad nauseum here-how the strip is harvested and dissected, how the follicles are handled by the techs, the type of incisions, the way the follicles are placed by the techs, etc etc. After the patient leaves the clinic, the ball is now in each patient's hands. The patient now has the responsibility to follow the post-op instructions and to care for the transplant properly. These are factors that are under the patient's direct control. The patient's 'physiology' is not under the patient's direct control, naturally. If TTP had 2500 grafts and his physiology dictates that he will have 50 percent growth, then this percentage of growth would theoretically be the same in the next surgery. So if he needs 1250 SUCCESSFULLY growing grafts in the same area (hairline and frontal third) then he would require an additional harvest of 2500 grafts to have 1250 grow SUCCESSFULLY. With regards to Dr. A, I feel a few of the members have been too hard on him. I would submit that Dr. A, would much rather have done the first HT session pro bono and have achieved a good result for TTP then to have this thread existant on this web site. I am certain he has reflected on that HT, and done his due diligence to assure that all the factors under his direct control have been attended to properly. No physician who works hard every day in this business would consider one day's "pay", a fair trade-off for being falsely maligned in a respected forum such as this. Now if you look at a graph with a bell-shaped curve. the "Y" axis contains the words: poor, below average, average, above average, and excellent. All HT physicians probably have results that fall in a bell-shaped curve. Coalition doctors, ostensibly have a "tighter curve" and the curve is over to the right, where the middle of the curve is somewhere between "above-average" and "excellent". Non-coalition doctors may have wider curves, or skewed curves and the middle of the curve (that specific doctor's average result) falling to the left of the Y axis- perhaps average or below average. So-- point being, that Dr. A's indication that the patient had an 'average' result he probably was indicating that it was average of ALL HT procedures/physicians, NOT his particular 'average' result, which for him would be again, where we would see a coalition doctor's top of the curve. It's hard to explain in just words, but anyone who took a statistics 101 course should clearly understand. Obviously, Dr. A did not mean to suggest that TTP's result was HIS particular average result.

Looking good man!! You are a fast healer-also your characteristics of hair loss and donor hair are just about perfect for HT in my opinion. You're a lucky guy!! Well.. only coulda been luckier if you didn't need HT in the first place Kudos to Dr. Alexander!!

Have you guys seen the implanter pen?? There is a very good video of it on Youtube. It's not a 'no touch' system. It is compatible from what I can tell with either FUE or FUT. Basically it is an alternative to the jeweler's forceps that hold the graft and implant it into the scalp. I basically uses a small amount of suction to grab the graft and then the suction is released allowing the graft to be placed in the recipient site. The main benefit appears to be that it removes the possibility of damage to the graft by crushing it with the forceps. To me.. it looks like a very elegant solution to that particular issue. Check it out!!

Time-you quote this line above, yet it appears you've already had TWO procedures with Dr. Epstein. What do you mean when you say you want information "BEFORE making a mistake.."?? Thanks..

Chanyouzhe- We all feel terribly for your result. It is heart-breaking. Yet you seem to be asking the very same question you did to start this post. You've had many thoughtful replies and potential explanations. Why do you continue to ask the same question in the face of many many replies to it? This thread has gotten the attention of Armani's clinic and you received a public reply and an offer of assistance from Armani. I suggest you follow up with Pat205 and move forward and keep us posted.

I guess we are talking about the left side of the hairline? I agree.. anything to remove the hair will leave pocks and scars. Not a good choice. Lowering the other side to the same height might leave you with an unacceptably low hairline as you age. You look quite young-probably not older than 28? Why don't you try another hairstyle or better yet, add highlights to the hairline and front-top. I think reverse camaflouge (sp?) is your best option.

Refusetogobald- The link doesn't seem to work. Please repost? I'm strongly looking at Dr. Feller and would love to see his work. Congrats-it seems like you made it through the first month without a hitch!