estrogen/liver and DHT

[guyfromsydney]

I read on some other site, that although dht is a testosterone derivative, that estrogen is actually one of the major factors in dht production.

 

Problems in the liver, create excesses of estrogen in the body and that in turn produces higher levels of dht?

 

 

The idea proposed was for some people, they could reduce mpb to some degree through improving their diet and flushing out their liver?

 

 

Accurate or just another load of bull shit?

[spineguy1]

guyfromsydney,

If there was some magical formula, some drug company would be cashing in on it, trust me.

[Matt Skiba]

What the man says makes sense. It is true that DHT controls estrogen, that is a fact. One of the reasons many men get side effects from propecia is that when DHT is inhibited, the body normally produces more testosterone in an attempt to re-establish homeostasis, when this happens, the excess testosterone gets converted to estradiol (Estrogen) and since there is no DHT to regulate it, it causes some nasty things to happen such as gyno and ED.

 

My theory is that in a worst case scenario when the body is already producing quite a bit of testosterone, finasteride causes the body to not be able to produce as much testosterone anymore because of exhaustion. Thus causing the persistent side effects that a minority of men experience (I don't care what the literature says this is a fact).

 

Good diet and exercise can definitely reduce estrogen, and I have a strong belief that the quality of your health or how stressed out you may be is a factor in hair loss. This isn't exactly the sort of thing drug companies can cash in on. Anti-estrogen drugs generally have some side effects of their own, not only that but I haven't heard of anyone regrowing hair cause of it. But then again hormones are the cause of hair loss, just because you take the hormones out of the equation doesn't mean you will regrow hair, though it may stop it, even still there's a post on another forum of a guy whose gone as far as to value his hair more than his own sexual well-being and is taking combinations of finasteride, dutasteride, even oral spironolactone along with minoxidil and he's still losing hair.

 

I have read that Estrogen can also cause problems with the prostate.

[Rick055]

Yes, I have heard that estrogen sensitizes prostate cells to DHT.

 

There was a recent study out of Atlanta showing that although men on testosterone replacement had increases in serum DHT levels there was no change in DHT in prostate tissue.

 

Goes another step to show that not only is serum DHT a poor indicator of intracellular activity, but that DHT, by itself, is not necessarily the bad guy.

 

I have heard anecdotal evidence that arimidex may be useful in preventing hairloss.

 

As you pointed out, simply put, DHT keeps estrogen metabolites in check. Take DHT out of the equation & estrogens (most notably estradiol) can increase.

 

I also believe that finasteride can cause long term sides, although I don't think it has anything to do with testosterone "burn out". I don't believe finasteride has ever been shown to increase total T by more than 10 - 15%, even at 5 mg qid.

 

In my unprofessional and highly speculative opinion, it has more to do with creating a hormonal imbalance where the body becomes more estrogen dominant.

 

I am toying with taking it myself.

[Matt Skiba]

Arimidex preventing hair loss? The idea of that seems really interesting. There's a bunch of drugs like arimidex, aromasin, clomid, nolvadex, and some newer ones coming out like Evista, that are pretty effective at controlling estrogen.

 

You seem like a pretty smart guy and I'm happy to see someone like you on here.

 

One thing that I've wondered is if it might actually be more beneficial to take propecia in combination with arimidex and at the same time prevent unwanted estrogenic side effects.

 

I've been using the supplement resveratrol which is a natural side-effect free estrogen modulator. If I can give credit to one product, even though it still took me months to recover, it would be dermacrine sustain. The stuff helped me to fully regain my libido, not to mention shoot intense loads like never before, and the reservoir never seems to dry out either. But my point is that my testosterone level was shot for someone my age. I take it that with the increased libido and well-being my testosterone is climbing back up to normal. Here's the thing that really gets me though: I have not noticed any bit of acceleration of hair loss that one would think you get from boosting your levels of testosterone. Not only that but any peach fuzz gains I've made don't fall out easily either, even if I haven't used any minoxidil for over 2 weeks.

 

I am seriously thinking of using a dedicated minoxidil regimen to regrow as much as I can, and then stop and see if the regrowth starts falling out again. To many this may sound like a bad idea, but keep in mind I am only 20 years old and any loss of hair hasn't really happened in my family at my age, unless you count my overweight cousin on my dad's side who is a year younger than me, and he's got noticeably worse recession than I do (keep in mind I'm only 20).

 

There is definitely some stuff that that's happening on the cellular level that we don't know about, or we are just not being told about it to preserve revenues.

 

Here is a good link explaining arimidex and some things about the endocrine system, I highly suggest you read some of the links to forum posts on the page:

 

http://www.farrellmanual.com/drugs/arimidex.htm

[Blond]

In no way does estrogen result directly in an increase in DHT! If anything estrogen has been known to be beneficial to hair growth / thickness for sometime. This is why when women are pregnant and their estrogens are higher they notice an increase in hair thickness / density etc. Women often notice their hair thins after the birth and this is due to the hormones returning back to their physiological state (prior to pregnancy).

 

An increase in estrogen is due to inhibition of 5alpha reductase and hence more substrate (testosterone) available to be converted into estrogen via aromatase enzymes. One of the major places this takes is in the liver. Estrogen will act as an antagonist to androgen receptors and that is why DHT receptors will become sensitised to any stimulation/binding of DHT. Most likely you would get upregulation of androgen receptors meaning more sites for DHT to bind to!!

 

I imagine that taking an aromatase inhibitor would increase your testosterone production whilst increasing your bodies' expression of aromatase enzymes. So yes it may reduce estrogen if you get the dose right but when you stop taking the inhibitor you'll be in trouble.