Verteporfin Discussion

[MrFox]

This tread is to discuss the topic of Verteporfin for hair regeneration and wound healing. Please post any ideas or questions here rather on the other tread in order to keep that tread open for updates by Dr. Barghouthi or other Dr's testing Verteporfin.

[mr_peanutbutter]

i hope there are other doctors testing though

[Square1]

22 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

i hope there are other doctors testing though

I genuinely feel I am missing why others aren't excited. If someone knows, please feel me in.

[Melvin- Admin]

This is the official thread

Hopefully Dr. Barghouthi will provide an update soon.

[MrFox]

1 hour ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

i hope there are other doctors testing though

Well Dr. Bloxham has stated that he is wanting to test, it seems like he is working towards testing it on a mini FUT incision. It might be sourcing that is a problem for many of the doctors, because of the shortage. 

 

50 minutes ago, Square1 said:

I genuinely feel I am missing why others aren't excited. If someone knows, please feel me in.

Idk, I think a lot of it might be that so many people have been burned before. There are always promising cures that come and go. That being said even what we have seen so far from the trial from Dr. B is substantially more progress than any other cure that has come along, so I am also at a loss as to why more surgeons have not shown interest in at least trying Vertporfin in the donor area. 

[Square1]

10 minutes ago, MrFox said:

Idk, I think a lot of it might be that so many people have been burned before. There are always promising cures that come and go. That being said even what we have seen so far from the trial from Dr. B is substantially more progress than any other cure that has come along, so I am also at a loss as to why more surgeons have not shown interest in at least trying Vertporfin in the donor area. 

This indeed and I don't see any particular reason to doubt the findings of dr. B.

If it would be a company with a patented substance than I could understand scepticism but in this case, dr. B. wouldn't see a penny if verteporfin would prove to be a miracle drug and clinics around the globe would start using it. It is also not the case that he has a "special way" of applying the drug that he would charge for or something as everybody understands this is just first time use and protocols would need to be developed, tested and evaluated in order to agree on what the best one is.

 

 

[Berba11]

Hair restoration has come such a long way that I'm not even sure verteporfin's potential for hair regrowth is even the most exciting thing here. The prospect of significantly less scarring for me is the most tantalising aspect of verteporfin, particularly in terms of not only keeping donor hair shorter, but hairline repair cases where scarring would naturally be in a more visible area. The boom in HT surgery also means a boom in bad HT's, and verteporfin seems like it could greatly help people recover from bad initial surgeries. Dr B's trials are already showing positive signs as far as scar reduction goes.

[Melvin- Admin]

I spoke with Dr. Farjo who also wanted to test it. Let’s hope more surgeons test it out. 

[Square1]

46 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I spoke with Dr. Farjo who also wanted to test it. Let’s hope more surgeons test it out. 

I reckon you had an interview with him and convinced him of trying this. When was that exactly and, more importantly, was he aware of dr. Barghouthi's work before you brought it up?

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, Square1 said:

I reckon you had an interview with him and convinced him of trying this. When was that exactly and, more importantly, was he aware of dr. Barghouthi's work before you brought it up?

Yes, he was aware, he was going to talk with him, but he didn’t get a chance too. 

[Square1]

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, he was aware, he was going to talk with him, but he didn’t get a chance too. 

Do you know if he currently has concrete plans to test vert?

[alopeciaphobia]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, he was aware, he was going to talk with him, but he didn’t get a chance too. 

Thanks for trying to move this forward, Melvin. After the initial excitement, I had been feeling a bit let down by the sudden halt in the progress of the pilot study. It's great to know there are others willing to experiment.

[mr_peanutbutter]

10 hours ago, MrFox said:

Well Dr. Bloxham has stated that he is wanting to test, it seems like he is working towards testing it on a mini FUT incision. It might be sourcing that is a problem for many of the doctors, because of the shortage. 

 

Idk, I think a lot of it might be that so many people have been burned before. There are always promising cures that come and go. That being said even what we have seen so far from the trial from Dr. B is substantially more progress than any other cure that has come along, so I am also at a loss as to why more surgeons have not shown interest in at least trying Vertporfin in the donor area. 

is there a general shortage of verteporfin?

[MrFox]

5 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

is there a general shortage of verteporfin?

Yes, there is a global shortage as there is only one production line in one factory producing the brand name Verteporfin. 

[mr_peanutbutter]

5 hours ago, MrFox said:

Yes, there is a global shortage as there is only one production line in one factory producing the brand name Verteporfin. 

what company is offering this product? is there still an activ patent? i couldnt really find anything except that in germany its offered under the tradename "visudyne" from the company cheplapharm arzneimittel gmbh but i guess thats just a importer/distributer for the german market 

 

and do you know how expensive the medication is? 

 

thanks

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by mr_peanutbutter

[MrFox]

6 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

what company is offering this product? is there still an activ patent? i couldnt really find anything except that in germany its offered under the tradename "visudyne" from the company cheplapharm arzneimittel gmbh but i guess thats just a importer/distributer for the german market 

 

and do you know how expensive the medication is? 

 

thanks

 

 

It's sold under Bausch & Lomb and the sole manufacturing line in the world is in the U.S.A. They have upped production since the shortage began but they expect supplies to be limited until the end of 2023, with priority being given to ophthalmologist that use the drug for it's patented use with certain diseases affecting the eyes. I believe the 15 mg bottle goes for $1800. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by MrFox

[mr_peanutbutter]

9 hours ago, MrFox said:

It's sold under Bausch & Lomb and the sole manufacturing line in the world is in the U.S.A. They have upped production since the shortage began but they expect supplies to be limited until the end of 2023, with priority being given to ophthalmologist that use the drug for it's patented use with certain diseases affecting the eyes. I believe the 15 mg bottle goes for $1800. 

hmm i was about purchase some sweet bausch & lomb stocks (there is also bausch health stocks) after i read your reply but then i read this

 

“VISUDYNE is a registered trademark of Cheplapharm Arzneimittel GmbH used under license. 
Bausch + Lomb, Focus on Access and RETISERT are trademarks of Bausch & Lomb Incorporated or its affiliates.
© 2023 Bausch & Lomb Incorporated or its affiliates. VID.0310.USA.21“

https://www.bauschretinarx.com/visudyne/ecp/about/

just for clarity: this mwans b&l have the license and rent it out to cheplapharm? or is the other way around

 

 

more concerning however is what you write about the limited supply. thats really concerning. so it could be very well noone else will use this for hairtransplants in 2023..

 

regarding the prices: how much ml do you think would be necessary to use? in average

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by mr_peanutbutter

[MrFox]

3 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

hmm i was about purchase some sweet bausch & lomb stocks (there is also bausch health stocks) after i read your reply but then i read this

 

“VISUDYNE is a registered trademark of Cheplapharm Arzneimittel GmbH used under license. 
Bausch + Lomb, Focus on Access and RETISERT are trademarks of Bausch & Lomb Incorporated or its affiliates.
© 2023 Bausch & Lomb Incorporated or its affiliates. VID.0310.USA.21“

https://www.bauschretinarx.com/visudyne/ecp/about/

just for clarity: this mwans b&l have the license and rent it out to cheplapharm? or is the other way around

 

 

more concerning however is what you write about the limited supply. thats really concerning. so it could be very well noone else will use this for hairtransplants in 2023..

 

regarding the prices: how much ml do you think would be necessary to use? in average

 

 

I'm not really sure how they purchased it from third parties, I wasn't part of the group buy. The only brand name is owned by Bausch & Lomb, there isn't a generic producer of the drug as far as I am aware, hence the shortages. If you're buying the real thing you would have to buy the whole bottle i believe which is 15 mg and then it would depend on the amount of area being used and the concentration. The average scalp of a human is about 700 cm2 and the highest dose was .40 cm2. So unless I'm missing something you would need about 18 bottles for the whole head, but this is just what I was able to find. That isn't necessarily the price or amount that would be needed in the end. I imagine if a clinic is using it enough, they would be able to source it higher quanties for less price. 

[mr_peanutbutter]

7 minutes ago, MrFox said:

I'm not really sure how they purchased it from third parties, I wasn't part of the group buy. The only brand name is owned by Bausch & Lomb, there isn't a generic producer of the drug as far as I am aware, hence the shortages. If you're buying the real thing you would have to buy the whole bottle i believe which is 15 mg and then it would depend on the amount of area being used and the concentration. The average scalp of a human is about 700 cm2 and the highest dose was .40 cm2. So unless I'm missing something you would need about 18 bottles for the whole head, but this is just what I was able to find. That isn't necessarily the price or amount that would be needed in the end. I imagine if a clinic is using it enough, they would be able to source it higher quanties for less price. 

oh thanks for the clarification. well that surely sounds expensive

 

given the price and the lack of supply i kinda get now why no other ht surgeon is really trying it. maybe they could come forward to b&l to get it sponsored lol

 

 

now that i think about this sentence:

 

“VISUDYNE is a registered trademark of Cheplapharm Arzneimittel GmbH used under license. “

 

im not a nativ speaker but maybe it could mean cheplapharn owns the right of the medication but kinda rent it out to to bausch lombach?

[Marlo]

13 hours ago, MrFox said:

It's sold under Bausch & Lomb and the sole manufacturing line in the world is in the U.S.A. They have upped production since the shortage began but they expect supplies to be limited until the end of 2023, with priority being given to ophthalmologist that use the drug for it's patented use with certain diseases affecting the eyes. I believe the 15 mg bottle goes for $1800. 

Ugh, $1800 for 15 mg sounds prohibitively expensive for usage in hair transplants. Do we know how long Bausch & Lomb can keep the patent going?

[MrFox]

1 hour ago, Marlo said:

Ugh, $1800 for 15 mg sounds prohibitively expensive for usage in hair transplants. Do we know how long Bausch & Lomb can keep the patent going?

From my understanding, it is not the patent that is the issue but rather that it has not been deemed profitable to create a new production line for Verteporfin. 

I don't think the price is really the issue, rather the availability of Verteporfin as well as the fact that it is being used off-label for a different intended use.  While I agree $1800 is expensive it's not so expensive as to prohibit testing. I would be surprised if people weren't willing to pay a few $1,000 more in order to have substantially less scaring in the donor zone. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by MrFox
spelling

[MrFox]

Great news, It looks like Dr. Bloxham is planning on doing a mini FUT trial with Verteporfin starting in March. He just updated us all on the discord channel.

[takuma]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:33 PM, MrFox said:

Great news, It looks like Dr. Bloxham is planning on doing a mini FUT trial with Verteporfin starting in March. He just updated us all on the discord channel.

Has Dr Bloxham, updated on this Fox? Has he acquired the verteporfin for the trial?

[MrFox]

1 hour ago, takuma said:

Has Dr Bloxham, updated on this Fox? Has he acquired the verteporfin for the trial?

There has not been any update since last month, as far as I know he was about to place the order for Verteporfin last time he updated the group! I have tagged him recently in the discord group asking him his thoughts on the biopsy results from the original trial, so hopefully we will hear from him soon. 

[MrFox]

I've been wondering if there is any way to test for other things in the next biopsy whenever that happens? Obviously the most important thing initially to find out was follicle amount as well as fibrosis. It would be great if we could see about blood vessels, nerves, adipose tissue, and sweat glands as well, perhaps even pigmentation. I would be surprised if we did not see an improvement all of those appendages as well. The research from Dr. Plikus indicated that hair follicles generate new blood vessels as well as fat cells. I've also read that nerve endings need blood supply in order to proliferate so it may be that there is some regeneration as well. If the new follicles are attached to an erecti pili muscle, then undoubtedly there is some nerve connection that would allow for the follicle to be stimulated.