FUE HLC Ankara | NW 5/6 | 5762 Grafts | November 2022

[Nw7HPE]

5 hours ago, Drew-83 said:

10 months passed ...I've resigned myself now...  I will hear from the clinic soon and want to understand why I had to spend more than 14k EUR to get to this bad result.

I m exactly like yourself, poor density and grafts survival. These idiots who jump to HLC s defense have no idea. They are most likely HLC employees or affiliates. 

[GeneralNorwood]

12 hours ago, Kashnw7hope said:

I m exactly like yourself, poor density and grafts survival. These idiots who jump to HLC s defense have no idea. They are most likely HLC employees or affiliates. 

I would never go to HLC, because of cases like this : https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/64751-botched-hairtransplantion-by-hlc-clinic-in-ancara/page/13/

My opinion about HLC : https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/68984-wait-for-pekiner-or-go-to-hlc/#comment-719929

 

But dude. Your  topic is funny. You didn't provide single photo proving that HLC did bad job. You always upload pictures with hair 1-2 cm long. If i cut hair short like that, my HT would look horrible too. 

On the other hand, Drew-83 grew hair longer and send here photos that show density is midscalp is poor. And this is valid argument to prove that HLC is Mcdonald. 

If your result is like Drew-83, upload photos that prove it. 

 

BTW, your transplantation reminds me of the first HT from Bandit90. He had 4000 scalp grafts and 1300 beard grafts, but he used 800 scalp grafts on the temple points. So on the top of the head he used 3200 scalp grafts and 1300 beard grafts.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Drew-83]

17 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Postop picture is not good quality, but i see that there is definetely lower density of grafts in red area (midscalp). They focused more on frontal region and lateral humps. And your growth on the front and lateral humps looks ok. 

They should have implanted more grafts on the midscalp, but it would be 6000+ grafts procedure. 

So generally final result is propably because of the way that they planned the procedure. 

Pictures was sent by the clinic. There are native hairs in that area, but few enough to make such a preposterous prediction,. I had been reassured that I would have good density throughout the area so they didn't go too far into the crown. A respectable clinic shouldn't do such a job, there is no excuse.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Drew-83

[GeneralNorwood]

4 minutes ago, Drew-83 said:

Pictures was sent by the clinic. There are native hairs in that area, but few enough to make such a preposterous prediction,. I had been reassured that I would have good density throughout the area so they didn't go too far into the crown. A respectable clinic shouldn't do such a job, there is no excuse.

Do not interpret my thoughts as excuse for the clinic. I agree that outcome is unsatysfying. 

I'm only thinking about the cause of this situation and contempleting whether final result is because of wrong grafts redistribution or poor survival rate. You can ask the clinic about better quality post-op pictures, maybe it will explain the causes. But i wouldn't be suprised if they do not send better pictures. 

[Melvin- Admin]

15 hours ago, Kashnw7hope said:

I m exactly like yourself, poor density and grafts survival. These idiots who jump to HLC s defense have no idea. They are most likely HLC employees or affiliates. 

While I can understand your frustration. I don’t believe name calling is warranted. HLC has produced some good results. Looks like they’ve missed the mark in managing expectations here. I think it’s natural to question the reason why this may have occurred. Questioning the reason why, isn’t a defense. 

[Melvin- Admin]

In my opinion, the expectation’s haven’t been managed in this case. There’s absolutely NO WAY someone with this level of hair loss will achieve full density with short hair or when its wet after 5,700 grafts. Impossible. 

 

When you compare this Dr. Zarev case with a similar level of hair loss. It took this patient 12,890 grafts more than double! And it’s still not 100% perfect when wet. 

You were ALWAYS going to need multiple hair transplants. Yes, in the same zones too! This notion that you can achieve true density with 5,700 grafts on a Norwood 6/7 is lunacy. 

The picture you posted is low quality and not a good comparison. This 6 month photo gives us a better idea at the growth. I’m sure its better or the same now. 

 

Now, before someone starts saying I’m defending the clinic, I’m not. I have no affiliation with HLC. But what’s right is right. The only thing I can fault the clinic for is not managing your expectations. I’m sure if you grew your hair out at least another 7cm, your scalp wouldn’t be visible. That’s what you call the “illusion” of density.

[Turkhair]

8 hours ago, Drew-83 said:

Pictures was sent by the clinic. There are native hairs in that area, but few enough to make such a preposterous prediction,. I had been reassured that I would have good density throughout the area so they didn't go too far into the crown. A respectable clinic shouldn't do such a job, there is no excuse.

It seems like your survival rate might have been a little lower but your transplant isn’t a failure by any means. 

A lot of grafts went into your lateral humps to reinforce them and your midscalp was left a little lacking in density. 

You also have 1k+ beard grafts and beard grafts are unpredictable mate. Mine grew amazing for first 4 moths post op and now they’re sad and nowhere to be found not helping with my density. Might be the case with you. 

I understand what you’re going through, I went through the same a couple months ago. Go and look through several results, what you will realise is even the best results look thin and they try to present it in the best way. There’s literally people here who just put 5k grafts into their frontal third alone and guess what, it still doesn’t achieve the natural density. Wanting to have uniform density for such a large area with 5k grafts is wishful thinking. 

It’s the same thing with the other guy who doesn’t grow his hair out. I went to a surgeon better than HLC by everyone’s metric and my hairs look bald thinning and disgusting unless I grow them out for 3-4 months at least. Even still, I wish I had more density. But I understand now why it’s called illusion of density and not really density. 
 

There’s a reason why some people do even 10 transplants!. It’s not a once done deal type of thing unfortunately. You can add more density to midscalp, do the crown then use body hairs for 3rd, 4th op to be happy with some semblance of density. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Turkhair

[Drew-83]

@GeneralNorwood and @Turkhair I honestly don't know where the beard grafts ended up, but if I remember correctly the surgeon told me that he put them almost everywhere except the hairline, so I think it's a problem of unit distribution, the part you see in the picture is missing

@Melvin- Moderator I don't understand why with all the photos I posted you got the one with short and slightly damp hair... look at the last photo I posted and you won't be able to say that everything went smoothly.
here it is not a question of expectations, but only of their mistake, also because I was clear enough from the beginning saying that I would not have expected a great density, but a homogeneity over the whole scalp, bearing in mind, however, that at the beginning I had been estimate a maximum of 3000-3500 grafts for the frontal area.

in any case, if you want a case similar to mine, but successful, I can send you this from the same clinic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV5f_vTH8d8&ab_channel=HLC

and then there are countless others also here on the forum classified as a success... you won't tell me that this is one of them?!?!

 

 

 

[KSA91]

9 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

While I can understand your frustration. I don’t believe name calling is warranted. HLC has produced some good results. Looks like they’ve missed the mark in managing expectations here. I think it’s natural to question the reason why this may have occurred. Questioning the reason why, isn’t a defense. 

That's exactly what I said to him. He was a NW7! Which means intense DHT activity on his scalp! He doesn't take finasteride! And he won't grow his hair for us to truly judge the work! What was he expecting exactly? 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Drew-83 said:

@GeneralNorwood and @Turkhair I honestly don't know where the beard grafts ended up, but if I remember correctly the surgeon told me that he put them almost everywhere except the hairline, so I think it's a problem of unit distribution, the part you see in the picture is missing

@Melvin- Moderator I don't understand why with all the photos I posted you got the one with short and slightly damp hair... look at the last photo I posted and you won't be able to say that everything went smoothly.
here it is not a question of expectations, but only of their mistake, also because I was clear enough from the beginning saying that I would not have expected a great density, but a homogeneity over the whole scalp, bearing in mind, however, that at the beginning I had been estimate a maximum of 3000-3500 grafts for the frontal area.

in any case, if you want a case similar to mine, but successful, I can send you this from the same clinic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV5f_vTH8d8&ab_channel=HLC

and then there are countless others also here on the forum classified as a success... you won't tell me that this is one of them?!?!

 

 

 

This case had BHT, which is thicker than scalp hair. Also, I GUARANTEE YOU, his hair would look really thin, if he had his hair as short as yours in direct lighting.

You can clearly see scalp, even in low lighting. Also, his hair is at least 4 cm longer than your hair. The illusion of density requires hair length.

Why don’t you post multiple angles with a top down angle. 

[KSA91]

1 hour ago, Drew-83 said:

@GeneralNorwood and @Turkhair I honestly don't know where the beard grafts ended up, but if I remember correctly the surgeon told me that he put them almost everywhere except the hairline, so I think it's a problem of unit distribution, the part you see in the picture is missing

@Melvin- Moderator I don't understand why with all the photos I posted you got the one with short and slightly damp hair... look at the last photo I posted and you won't be able to say that everything went smoothly.
here it is not a question of expectations, but only of their mistake, also because I was clear enough from the beginning saying that I would not have expected a great density, but a homogeneity over the whole scalp, bearing in mind, however, that at the beginning I had been estimate a maximum of 3000-3500 grafts for the frontal area.

in any case, if you want a case similar to mine, but successful, I can send you this from the same clinic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV5f_vTH8d8&ab_channel=HLC

and then there are countless others also here on the forum classified as a success... you won't tell me that this is one of them?!?!

 

 

 

One thing to mention about that video from 7 years ago is the list of doctors it shows on the video who performed that particular hair transplant. Dr. Kaan Pekiner left HLC and became a great doctor in his own right. Dr. Ozgur is the director of HLC and does the consultations but stopped performing surgery. Dr Akin appears on their website but nobody has spoken of him in this forum in the context of performing hair transplants as they spoke of Drs. Umut, Elif, and Cengiz from HLC, so he must've also left!

This is why I believe Dr Ozgur focuses on the HLC brand and not individual doctor names. I see Dr Sethi also trying to do that with Eugenix. Dr. Bisanga also with BHR clinc.

[Drew-83]

Here are other pics with natural light.

I am convinced that with a longer length the effect is even worse beyond the empty crown.

[Turkhair]

8 hours ago, Drew-83 said:

@GeneralNorwood and @Turkhair I honestly don't know where the beard grafts ended up, but if I remember correctly the surgeon told me that he put them almost everywhere except the hairline, so I think it's a problem of unit distribution, the part you see in the picture is missing

@Melvin- Moderator I don't understand why with all the photos I posted you got the one with short and slightly damp hair... look at the last photo I posted and you won't be able to say that everything went smoothly.
here it is not a question of expectations, but only of their mistake, also because I was clear enough from the beginning saying that I would not have expected a great density, but a homogeneity over the whole scalp, bearing in mind, however, that at the beginning I had been estimate a maximum of 3000-3500 grafts for the frontal area.

in any case, if you want a case similar to mine, but successful, I can send you this from the same clinic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV5f_vTH8d8&ab_channel=HLC

and then there are countless others also here on the forum classified as a success... you won't tell me that this is one of them?!?!

 

 

 

You should be able to tell where the beard grafts went, at least in the first months post op, they should be very thick and grow weird. If you can’t find them then maybe that’s it. Extracting beard grafts is really difficult, perhaps yours didn’t make it, that would explain the lack of density.

 I do agree with Melvin though that you’ve unrealistic expectations but I also think your graft survival rate wasn’t that impressive but this is it. This is what hair transplants are all about. Graft survival is never 100%, and hovers around 90%+-

I went to one of the doctor mentioned in that video (Kaan) and I can clearly see the trickery going on in that video. Look at how lengthy he has kept his hair and put a little harsh light on it boom it will look see through even weak in some areas. This is what I have, if I style it it looks amazing but under some angles it looks thin. I was devastated thinking my HT had failed wasting all my money but I have come to understanding that this is pretty much what you can expect. Look at a normal person who doesn’t bald density, they’ve thousands of hairs just in a small area, HT uses the same few thousand to cover a large area. It’s never going to be the same.

[Melvin- Admin]

This is a reasonable result for 5,700 grafts. The hair here isn’t combed in the same direction to give more illusion. Again, this is necessary with your level of hair loss. 

You should have been counseled about this beforehand, this we can fault the clinic for, not managing your expectations.

[Drew-83]

I don't want to reiterate my thought, there's an empty spot there...either 5762 grafts were not implanted or there was an error in the procedure . there are many videos around, don't let me link them here because it's enough to search a bit, but above all I've personally seen patients who started with the same situation as me and had a much better result.

[Melvin- Admin]

Your scalp is visible because the hair is combed backward, while the rest is combed forward. 

 

Again, you’re free to be unhappy with your results. At the end of the day, your opinion is the only one that matters. But the reality for anyone reading is that this is a reasonable result for your level of hair loss and the number of grafts.

It’s impossible to expect full density at your level of hair loss with one surgery and 5k grafts. Impossible. 

[BaldReaper]

you have decent density for 6k grafts, you can never achieve native density with a hair transplant

[KSA91]

And by the way it hasn't even been a year yet since your transplant! A lot can happen in two months. And some of your hair may continue to grow out still in the next six months 

[Drew-83]

It's evident here that the hair direction is the same...

 

@Melvin- Moderator you also started with a NW VI if I'm not mistaken and seeing the photos on your thread I didn't notice the same holes...

 

@KSA91 I hope, but growing stopped by the 4 month...It seems unlikely to me that anything will change in the space of two months

Edited September 2, 2023 by Drew-83

[jjalay]

Sorry for your results. An fue with 6000 grafts is considered a megasession more than enough to give you full coverage on the front and the midscalp. In your case it looks more like 2500- 3000 grafts on the front and midsector. In my opinion the survival rate was poor, that means either the grafts were damaged by the procedure or you had a lot of miniturisation and the grafts simply didnt survive.

You can still hope for an improvement in the coming months.

[jjalay]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Your scalp is visible because the hair is combed backward, while the rest is combed forward. 

 

Again, you’re free to be unhappy with your results. At the end of the day, your opinion is the only one that matters. But the reality for anyone reading is that this is a reasonable result for your level of hair loss and the number of grafts.

It’s impossible to expect full density at your level of hair loss with one surgery and 5k grafts. Impossible. 

Impossible to get full density with one surgery and 5K grafts? Check out these cases from couto:

 

[KSA91]

7 minutes ago, jjalay said:

Sorry for your results. An fue with 6000 grafts is considered a megasession more than enough to give you full coverage on the front and the midscalp. In your case it looks more like 2500- 3000 grafts on the front and midsector. In my opinion the survival rate was poor, that means either the grafts were damaged by the procedure or you had a lot of miniturisation and the grafts simply didnt survive.

You can still hope for an improvement in the coming months.

2500-3000!! With that number you can only cover the hairline and just behind it. Lool Can't you see his before pics? His lateral humps dropped! He had no hairline! HLC rebuilt his hairline, his lateral humps (which take a lot of grafts) and the lower scalp just before the crown. I agree the mid scalp needed more grafts. This is why people need to understand that one hair transplant is not enough!

[jjalay]

1 hour ago, KSA91 said:

2500-3000!! With that number you can only cover the hairline and just behind it. Lool Can't you see his before pics? His lateral humps dropped! He had no hairline! HLC rebuilt his hairline, his lateral humps (which take a lot of grafts) and the lower scalp just before the crown. I agree the mid scalp needed more grafts. This is why people need to understand that one hair transplant is not enough!

You dont seem to understand what i am saying. There is no way this is 6000 grafts result, not even close. It looks like he has 2500-3000 grafts on the front and midscalp because of the poor growth that he had.

Yes, one procedure is in many cases not enough and many people need a second one to cover the crown or other parts. But we are talking about a megasession here with

6000 grafts. There are cases from elite doctors in this forum where it was possible not only to cover the frontal part, with great density, but even cover the crown with this amount of grafts.

The most important part is not the number of grafts but how you use them.

[BaldGuy]

5 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This is a reasonable result for 5,700 grafts. The hair here isn’t combed in the same direction to give more illusion. Again, this is necessary with your level of hair loss. 

You should have been counseled about this beforehand, this we can fault the clinic for, not managing your expectations.

I agree..the result is pretty good for this huge area and the graft survival is fine.

As you said the hairs are not combed in the same direction to give the illusion of density. Generally in hair transplants you need to comb your hair in the same direction in order to have a good illusion of density...

Also his hairs are pretty short, which doesnt help with the illusion too...

Edited September 2, 2023 by BaldGuy

[Turkhair]

7 hours ago, jjalay said:

Impossible to get full density with one surgery and 5K grafts? Check out these cases from couto:

 

Couto is a great surgeon but you’re doing apples and oranges comparison. 

First two videos - Great donor. All scalp hair grafts. The donor is so great in these cases, they had 4-5s multi hairs grafts by hundreds!.  Comparing that to body hairs or weak donor with single/double grafts isn’t really a comparison, is it? 
 

Last video is a much fairer comparison. But look at how high the hairline is and how small the area covered is. His lateral humps are untouched and all grafts went into front + midscalp.

 

I feel like a lot of OP’s grafts were wasted on his lateral humps, and his hairline is lower than it should’ve been for his level of loss. His midscalp didn’t get much love and is obviously thin. Look how Couto planned the last patient. Very very conservative hairline, lateral humps untouched. If HLC had gone with the same plan with OP, he would be ecstatic with his density.

But I think this shows perfectly how to be a great clinic, it’s not just about getting good survival rate, it’s also about perfect planning according to each patients hairloss and managing expectations. How couto has executed the HT with last patient shows why he is so highly regarded. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Turkhair