Too soon for hair transplant??

[Legend007]

Don’t let people scare u about medications.. they scared  the crap out of me too .. that’s how I started becoming bald.. I threw my bottle of finasteride in the trash after 3 months use after reading online stuff .. 3 years after that I had to spend $20k on a hairtransplant, n now I’m back in the meds n not gonna stop.. i hardly take fin ,, not because of sides but because of lazy n my hair has stabilized .. I only take it once every 2-3 days .. n even on fin,, my hair volume is still not good ,, so I guess it didn’t stop the hairloss but slowed it down for me . 

try topical fin or something ..

[Es1]

11 minutes ago, Legend007 said:

Don’t let people scare u about medications.. they scared  the crap out of me too .. that’s how I started becoming bald.. I threw my bottle of finasteride in the trash after 3 months use after reading online stuff .. 3 years after that I had to spend $20k on a hairtransplant, n now I’m back in the meds n not gonna stop.. i hardly take fin ,, not because of sides but because of lazy n my hair has stabilized .. I only take it once every 2-3 days .. n even on fin,, my hair volume is still not good ,, so I guess it didn’t stop the hairloss but slowed it down for me . 

try topical fin or something ..

I understand bro 

I read online that topical fin is basically same as oral fin in the sense of side effects 

And i know you're saying people just scaring etc but there's plenty of people even on here have said the same about having severe side effects

I've been using topical minoxidil twice a day, only in the area that's thinning though not everywhere (not sure if you're supposed to do it everywhere lol)

 

[RTC]

3 minutes ago, Es1 said:

I understand bro 

I read online that topical fin is basically same as oral fin in the sense of side effects 

 

 

False tbh

[GoliGoliGoli]

3 minutes ago, RTC said:

False tbh

I'm curious about this too. Does Topical not eventually go pretty darn systemic? My understanding is that is does in fairly high levels

[RTC]

10 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I'm curious about this too. Does Topical not eventually go pretty darn systemic? My understanding is that is does in fairly high levels

Lower doses have been shown to barely reduce serum DHT. I know Dr Mwamba offers a 0.025% for that reason

[Es1]

14 minutes ago, RTC said:

False tbh

Does it have the same strength applying topically? 

[RTC]

Just now, Es1 said:

Does it have the same strength applying topically? 

Probably not. But good enough if you want to minimise side effects

[NARMAK]

23 minutes ago, Es1 said:

I understand bro 

I read online that topical fin is basically same as oral fin in the sense of side effects 

And i know you're saying people just scaring etc but there's plenty of people even on here have said the same about having severe side effects

I've been using topical minoxidil twice a day, only in the area that's thinning though not everywhere (not sure if you're supposed to do it everywhere lol)

 

Let's get things a little bit in perspective. The vast majority of men prescribed Finasteride yearly do not suffer severe or permanent persistent side affects. Of those that suffer sides, usually stopping or lowering the dosage helps. 

Of the people that also on here claiming severe side affects, i fo genuinely wonder how many of them have actually tried the medication or simply decided after doing their research that even the 5% or so chance (kinda making this number up btw but it's low for severe sides) put them off just in case they were that unlucky. 

We do things everyday that probably have a higher risk, yet somehow there's become this huge stigma and fear mongering against Finasteride which is one of the few and only medications we have that can help men losing their hair. 

I personally didn't start medication when i was in my late teens and 20s because of that BS about side affects like they were guaranteed and i genuinely got lucky i didn't lose hair really quickly in my 20s and had something to save. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

31 minutes ago, RTC said:

Lower doses have been shown to barely reduce serum DHT. I know Dr Mwamba offers a 0.025% for that reason

Hm interesting. Seems like a few prominent posters on here had to go off of topical due to sides though. But maybe they weren't using a 0.025% version? 

[GoliGoliGoli]

17 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Let's get things a little bit in perspective. The vast majority of men prescribed Finasteride yearly do not suffer severe or permanent persistent side affects. Of those that suffer sides, usually stopping or lowering the dosage helps. 

Of the people that also on here claiming severe side affects, i fo genuinely wonder how many of them have actually tried the medication or simply decided after doing their research that even the 5% or so chance (kinda making this number up btw but it's low for severe sides) put them off just in case they were that unlucky. 

We do things everyday that probably have a higher risk, yet somehow there's become this huge stigma and fear mongering against Finasteride which is one of the few and only medications we have that can help men losing their hair. 

I personally didn't start medication when i was in my late teens and 20s because of that BS about side affects like they were guaranteed and i genuinely got lucky i didn't lose hair really quickly in my 20s and had something to save. 

Well, kind of need to be careful here whether we're talking oral or topical. Also a lot of your statement hinges on your particular definition of "severe" and "persistent". I was DMing with a guy on here earlier who says he got sides after 2 months on oral fin, and 5 years later still says he hasn't fully recovered from them. I'm not inclined to think it's his mind playing tricks on him given the abundance of similar stories. There are also symptoms or disorders that may only manifest over years of darily use that aren't the commonly talked about symptoms that come on quickly: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7308241/

Doing anything to dsirupt your endocrine system is very risky imo. Especially considering we're swimming in a sea of endocrine disruptors already in 2022. 

But, I'm not saying its the devil either. Funny how one side claims it's the devil and the other claims its a savior. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, and really comes down to how much of a risk you want to take to preserve your hair. Genes likely play a role too.

I am interested in the discussion of topical not going systemic though...

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli

[NARMAK]

3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Well, kind of need to be careful here whether we're talking oral or topical. Also a lot of your statement hinges on your particular definition of "severe" and "persistent". I was DMing with a guy on here earlier who says he got sides after 2 months on oral fin, and 5 years later still says he hasn't fully recovered from them. I'm not inclined to think it's his mind playing tricks on him given the abundance of similar stories. There are also symptoms or disorders that may only manifest over that aren't the commonly talked about ones that come on quickly: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7308241/

Doing anything to alter your endocrine system is severely risky imo. Especially considering we're swimming in a world of endocrine disruptors already. Downstream effects especially of long term use can be great. 

But, I'm not saying its the devil either. Funny how one side claims it's the devil and the other claims its a savior. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, and really comes down to how much of a risk you want to take to preserve your hair. Genes likely play a role too.

I am interested in the discussion of topical not going systemic though...

 

 

If a person doesn't get a medical diagnosis that can completely isolate and pinpoint Finasteride as the core culprit, i'm not saying its a lie but its potentially only one of the underlying causes for such people too. 

When i talk of severe sides i refer to those that are very detrimental to a person and may or may not be something they recover from. 

The other thing you mentioned, which is "persistent" sides is actually something i would prefer to view as things that are within a tolerance. Like for example a lower libido, some other stuff which whilst i'm sure everybody would agree if there's something else that was actually on the market, they'd use it but for now, the majority tolerate it and the sides that come with it in order to keep their hair. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

13 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

If a person doesn't get a medical diagnosis that can completely isolate and pinpoint Finasteride as the core culprit, i'm not saying its a lie but its potentially only one of the underlying causes for such people too. 

Well in a way this is a good point.  As mentioned above we're swimming in a sea of endocrine disruptors already in 2022 and testosterone levels are cratering compared to 60 years ago.

But with that said, when thousands and thousands of guys start on fin and 2 months later go from normal libido/semen density/erection hardness to the opposite you kind of have to take things at face value. Sure you can never 100% conclusively say it was Fin but.....

[sukh123]

34 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Well in a way this is a good point.  As mentioned above we're swimming in a sea of endocrine disruptors already in 2022 and testosterone levels are cratering compared to 60 years ago.

But with that said, when thousands and thousands of guys start on fin and 2 months later go from normal libido/semen density/erection hardness to the opposite you kind of have to take things at face value. Sure you can never 100% conclusively say it was Fin but.....

Whats these sea of endocrine disruptors lol you refer to 

Edited July 26, 2022 by sukh123

[GoliGoliGoli]

11 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Whats these sea of endocrine disruptors lol you refer to 

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm#:~:text=Endocrine disruptors are found in,break-down in the environment.

[sukh123]

3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm#:~:text=Endocrine disruptors are found in,break-down in the environment.

The article obsolete tbh even states it in the picture below lol, so drinking a can of coke going to muck up my t levels . Give me a break your paranoid lol.

[GoliGoliGoli]

You think I didn't read that paragraph before I posted the link? Its well accepted that men's testosterone levels have been falling for decades on a statistically significant level. Even when researchers control for things like diet and exercise they still see the drop. It's more or less without question that environmental endocrine disruptors play at least some role in this decline - potentially a major one. 

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434

https://www.eu-focus.europeanurology.com/article/S2405-4569(20)30062-6/fulltext

https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20120325/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed

 

[sukh123]

47 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

You think I didn't read that paragraph before I posted the link? Its well accepted that men's testosterone levels have been falling for decades on a statistically significant level. Even when researchers control for things like diet and exercise they still see the drop. It's more or less without question that environmental endocrine disruptors play at least some role in this decline - potentially a major one. 

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434

https://www.eu-focus.europeanurology.com/article/S2405-4569(20)30062-6/fulltext

https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20120325/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed

 

You must have low t by the sounds of it lol, and are looking at answers for why . Have you had your t or hormones tested 

[RTC]

7 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

 

Doing anything to dsirupt your endocrine system is very risky imo. Especially considering we're swimming in a sea of endocrine disruptors already in 2022. 

 

This is such an under discussed topic. Everybody is quick to say that we should block DHT, but as men, we are already living in the most oestrogenic age ever in the history of man.

It's no wonder certain things are so prevalent today and testosterone levels are so low. Hormonally we are f*cked. We shouldn't be so blade about just taking androgen blockers willy nilly. 

Personally, I have tried to mitigate my risk as much as possible by taking dutasteride topical. I noticed significant strengthening of my temple hairs, confirmed by doc Mwamba.

[RTC]

6 hours ago, sukh123 said:

The article obsolete tbh even states it in the picture below lol, so drinking a can of coke going to muck up my t levels . Give me a break your paranoid lol.

The amount of oestrogen promoting chemicals in our everyday environments is definitely a huge contributory factor to the low T situation men find themselves in. And pregnant women exposed to many chemicals such as phthalates etc can lead to changes in male foetuses.

[GoliGoliGoli]

10 hours ago, sukh123 said:

You must have low t by the sounds of it lol, and are looking at answers for why . Have you had your t or hormones tested 

I got tested last year and was at 612 ng/dl so no very healthy levels. 

I will say though, you behavior on here in a variety of threads is indicative of someone with very high estrogen. Maybe you are transitioning? Or just very feminine in nature? 

[sukh123]

28 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I got tested last year and was at 612 ng/dl so no very healthy levels. 

I will say though, you behavior on here in a variety of threads is indicative of someone with very high estrogen. Maybe you are transitioning? Or just very feminine in nature? 

Paranoia is a symptom of high estrogeon lol something you have in abundance and as I have been warned by melvindinho numerous times to not be a troll, I’m not going to get into a trolling argument. All I will say is your obviously an advanced Norwood and not taking a dht blocker is setting you up for disaster. FYI I had sky high t levels as I did prior bloodwork , which made me comfortable into taking fin because I knew as a result my body could handle the reduction in dht due to my t picking up the slack and so it proved . I only wish I took it earlier as I wouldn’t even need to consider a future procedure if I did .  As you can see I had levels of 960ng/dl and 1200 ng/dl which I converted for you as uk use different units lol, so no transition here lol

Edited July 26, 2022 by sukh123

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 hour ago, sukh123 said:

Paranoia is a symptom of high estrogeon lol something you have in abundance and as I have been warned by melvindinho numerous times to not be a troll, I’m not going to get into a trolling argument. All I will say is your obviously an advanced Norwood and not taking a dht blocker is setting you up for disaster. FYI I had sky high t levels as I did prior bloodwork , which made me comfortable into taking fin because I knew as a result my body could handle the reduction in dht due to my t picking up the slack and so it proved . I only wish I took it earlier as I wouldn’t even need to consider a future procedure if I did .  As you can see I had levels of 960ng/dl and 1200 ng/dl which I converted for you as uk use different units lol, so no transition here lol

I'm glad you've already been warned. However, in my experience people who act like you on the internet usually have deeper personal problems that cause them to behave like this. I hope you're able to get those resolved. 

As far as my situation, I'm Norwood 3V and seem to be following my grandfathers hair loss pattern that never went past NW4 even in his 80's. I also have a healthy donor and plenty of funds so I'm confident I'll easily be able to cover my hair situation through HT'S alone without reducing my androgens. Many people are in this situation, so thinking everyone needs to jump on endocrine disruptors is silly. 

DHT has more physiological functions than just the ones people on here commonly think about. I already posted this link but you probably didn't read it https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7308241/

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 hour ago, sukh123 said:

 FYI I had sky high t levels as I did prior bloodwork , which made me comfortable into taking fin because I knew as a result my body could handle the reduction in dht due to my t picking up the slack and so it proved .

 

Also this is nonsense. You're clearly parroting Kevin Mann, another individual with not appreciation of the complex nature of biological systems. 

In addition to the well-recognized role of 5α-DHT and not total T in prostate growth and function, several other examples exist, which illustrate the key physiological role of 5α-DHT and not total T in mediating tissues function and metabolism. One such example is the role of 5α-DHT in maintaining erectile physiology [36]. It is now well-established that men treated with finasteride or dutasteride for BPH or AGA experience greater risk of erectile dysfunction, loss of libido and ejaculatory dysfunction [1,7,37,38,39]. These observations are strongly supported by studies in animal models, which demonstrated that finasteride and dutasteride, by inhibiting biosynthesis of 5α-DHT, impair corpus cavernosum growth and trabecular smooth muscle relaxation, endothelial function, increased connective tissue deposition and result in erectile dysfunction, even in the presence of physiological levels of total T [36,40,41,42]. Erectile dysfunction was attributed to reduction in intracellular 5α-DHT levels which were deemed essential for maintaining tissue function and metabolism even in the presence of physiological levels of T [43]. In addition, 5α-DHT is deemed critical for activating gene expression of neuronal and endothelial nitric oxide synthases, which are critical physiological mediators of penile erection [36,40,41,42]. These findings clearly demonstrate that 5α-DHT and not total T levels are critical for maintaining erectile physiology

[sukh123]

18 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Also this is nonsense. You're clearly parroting Kevin Mann, another individual with not appreciation of the complex nature of biological systems. 

In addition to the well-recognized role of 5α-DHT and not total T in prostate growth and function, several other examples exist, which illustrate the key physiological role of 5α-DHT and not total T in mediating tissues function and metabolism. One such example is the role of 5α-DHT in maintaining erectile physiology [36]. It is now well-established that men treated with finasteride or dutasteride for BPH or AGA experience greater risk of erectile dysfunction, loss of libido and ejaculatory dysfunction [1,7,37,38,39]. These observations are strongly supported by studies in animal models, which demonstrated that finasteride and dutasteride, by inhibiting biosynthesis of 5α-DHT, impair corpus cavernosum growth and trabecular smooth muscle relaxation, endothelial function, increased connective tissue deposition and result in erectile dysfunction, even in the presence of physiological levels of total T [36,40,41,42]. Erectile dysfunction was attributed to reduction in intracellular 5α-DHT levels which were deemed essential for maintaining tissue function and metabolism even in the presence of physiological levels of T [43]. In addition, 5α-DHT is deemed critical for activating gene expression of neuronal and endothelial nitric oxide synthases, which are critical physiological mediators of penile erection [36,40,41,42]. These findings clearly demonstrate that 5α-DHT and not total T levels are critical for maintaining erectile physiology

Why are you in your free time searching for studies to try and prove a point to  me who just some member On a forum lol. I got increased libido from the drug if anything, and giving my girlfriend the d on a regular lol . No problem here , I guess my sky high t  is helping lol

[GoliGoliGoli]

7 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Why are you in your free time searching for studies to try and prove a point to  me who just some member On a forum lol. I got increased libido from the drug if anything, and giving my girlfriend the d on a regular lol . No problem here , I guess my sky high t  is helping lol

I've known about this study for months so I didn't really go searching. Also just from your behavior on here I find it highly likely you're a liar anyways. Good luck out there Suk