What's stopping Zarev, Cuoto, Pitella, and Pinto from being on the list of recommended surgeons?

[Jon2345]

I've always thought these are amazing surgeons who are just underrated, but I was pleasantly surprised to see they have a very high regard on this community as well, many putting these doctors in their number 1 or 2 spot.

What is the process of these surgeons being on the recommended list? Have they already started? What's left?

 

 

[mafpe]

the forum reccs works 2 way, they have to commit to some terms with the forum.

[NARMAK]

The biggest thing is that basically the forum recommended doctors must pay a fee and go through a process to be selected. 

Doctors of a certain standing and reputation may feel they do not need to join organisations or forum lists because word of mouth etc. gives them more than enough business. 

That's why although the forum recommended list is a good place to start, it's not fully exhaustive of the only best options out there. 

However, it's always important to remember to look at independent patient reviews too to see more recent work. 

[Yan bio]

11 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

The biggest thing is that basically the forum recommended doctors must pay a fee and go through a process to be selected. 

Doctors of a certain standing and reputation may feel they do not need to join organisations or forum lists because word of mouth etc. gives them more than enough business. 

That's why although the forum recommended list is a good place to start, it's not fully exhaustive of the only best options out there. 

However, it's always important to remember to look at independent patient reviews too to see more recent work. 

Is this a known fact - that some of the surgeons pay money to the management in this forum?

[Jon2345]

34 minutes ago, mafpe said:

the forum reccs works 2 way, they have to commit to some terms with the forum.

What are the terms?

@NARMAK Is there anything to back up this? I've read through the forum and I don't see anything mentioned about the doctors having to pay money.

 

[Mountinvan]

Melvin has already answered this line of inquiry in an honest, candid way. We are fortunate to have Melvin and a no-pay forum. Doctors recommended for membership are put up scrutiny not just by the Forum Moderators and Owners but also the Forum members. As Jon says, it works 2 ways---and guess who benefits--us! There is so much smoke out in the internet , it is great to have a place to share experiences, cull out trolls, and get honest feedback and advice. Let's top beating this horse; there is no free lunch.

[Yan bio]

12 minutes ago, Mountinvan said:

Melvin has already answered this line of inquiry in an honest, candid way. We are fortunate to have Melvin and a no-pay forum. Doctors recommended for membership are put up scrutiny not just by the Forum Moderators and Owners but also the Forum members. As Jon says, it works 2 ways---and guess who benefits--us! There is so much smoke out in the internet , it is great to have a place to share experiences, cull out trolls, and get honest feedback and advice. Let's top beating this horse; there is no free lunch.

thank you for the reply. 

I searched for his answer about this but couldn't find it.

[NARMAK]

38 minutes ago, Jon2345 said:

What are the terms?

@NARMAK Is there anything to back up this? I've read through the forum and I don't see anything mentioned about the doctors having to pay money.

 

https://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/Consult-a-Physician/our-hair-restoration-physicians

Read this. It has the information you're looking for on the sister site that's linked to basically the network. 

[mafpe]

basically they pay a monthly subscription fee.
there is money involved, like other forum, and there is a bit of bias.

still, compared to other forum it's a little more... transparent, and open. 
as far as i know, there are standard that they employ, as in they would only pick at least a decent to good surgeon, and not an overmarketed hairmill.

there are a few case of dropped recommendation, but usually only if there's a fatal mistake that go open.

in any case, the recommendation list although is not absolute, it's a good place to start your research, no doctor have a 100% rate once they go long over the years, there are bound to be some bad results. one doc on the list have some bad looks lately, but the price is... affordable for most. at least, i think it's still better than random marketed clinic.

[Yan bio]

5 minutes ago, mafpe said:

basically they pay a monthly subscription fee.
there is money involved, like other forum, and there is a bit of bias.

still, compared to other forum it's a little more... transparent, and open. 
as far as i know, there are standard that they employ, as in they would only pick at least a decent to good surgeon, and not an overmarketed hairmill.

there are a few case of dropped recommendation, but usually only if there's a fatal mistake that go open.

in any case, the recommendation list although is not absolute, it's a good place to start your research, no doctor have a 100% rate once they go long over the years, there are bound to be some bad results. one doc on the list have some bad looks lately, but the price is... affordable for most. at least, i think it's still better than random marketed clinic.

thank you! this seems understandable.

for the sake of diversity - what are other good forums over the internet dealing with HTs?

[Melvin- Admin]

It is no secret that recommended doctors pay a sponsorship fee. How do you guys think we pay for hosting site? Or my time? Do you think its all free? Also, how do you think we keep the forum free from pop-ups, or ads? Without forum sponsorship, this forum would cease to exist. Let’s make that clear. 

I put up Dr. Pittella for recommendation a few months ago. Basically, the forum wanted to see more reviews. So I took it down. I believe now is the time to put his recommendation back up. 

As for Dr. Pinto, I had a fantastic conversation with Emilio his coordinator yesterday. Their main concern is not having the capacity to treat forum members. They are already at capacity, having to shut down availability. I will be speaking to Dr. Pinto himself next week.

I believe he’s not following the fundamental rule of supply and demand, if your demand is higher than the supply, you must raise the cost. That will level off the demand. Otherwise, you won’t be able to treat most anyway. Yes it will suck that some may no longer be able to afford him, but it will open up his practice to many more, which is better than closing his list. 

As for Dr. Zarev, we spoke some time ago, he said he was moving to another clinic. He didn’t have the time to devote to forum members. While I’ve been very impressed by Hugox results. I would like to see more reviews. 

In the end, we are the only organization that requires input from our community and physicians. We never just add a surgeon to the list without public scrutiny. It isn’t a perfect process, but it’s the best vetting process to date.

[Melvin- Admin]

32 minutes ago, Mountinvan said:

Melvin has already answered this line of inquiry in an honest, candid way. We are fortunate to have Melvin and a no-pay forum. Doctors recommended for membership are put up scrutiny not just by the Forum Moderators and Owners but also the Forum members. As Jon says, it works 2 ways---and guess who benefits--us! There is so much smoke out in the internet , it is great to have a place to share experiences, cull out trolls, and get honest feedback and advice. Let's top beating this horse; there is no free lunch.

EXACTLY! If we didn’t have sponsors, this place would be gone, or members would have to pay. Either way, there’s hosting site, web developers, my time, which isn’t free. Really, how do you guys think this would be funded? 

[RandoBrando517]

Pittella was gonna b added but curious25 started talking 💩 then the forum turned. Dumbaf if u ask me he should b added

[mafpe]

40 minutes ago, Yan bio said:

thank you! this seems understandable.

for the sake of diversity - what are other good forums over the internet dealing with HTs?

not much tbh, this here is the most active with alot of topic and most documented real case. i did most of my research here for forum side

otherwise you'll have to look for national forums (like germans, spains, etc)

some like bald truth is.... very biased to the point that you can see them as a marketing tool. there are some "open" and truthful case, but that's pretty rare

[Jon2345]

59 minutes ago, mafpe said:

there are a few case of dropped recommendation, but usually only if there's a fatal mistake that go open.

 

Who was dropped? There are people who retire or maybe don't want the extra demand. I think it's important to separate those people from others who were dropped for quality reasons.

53 minutes ago, Yan bio said:

thank you! this seems understandable.

for the sake of diversity - what are other good forums over the internet dealing with HTs?

Nothing as good as this one but

baldtruthtalk

Hair loss talk

Reddit/hair transplants

though I would say only the last has a decent volume of hairtransplant reviews but there is a annoying trend of people not posting the name of the doctors in their reviews which is wtf but it's getting better since the mods have encouraged people who write out the doctors name. The majority seem to go to cheaper clinics that haven't built up much of a name. I would say the posts are just status updates on their transplants rather than full on reviews.

46 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

EXACTLY! If we didn’t have sponsors, this place would be gone, or members would have to pay. Either way, there’s hosting site, web developers, my time, which isn’t free. Really, how do you guys think this would be funded? 

I see no issue with this. For transparency, are you getting paid for this? Again, no issues with that, considering the time you spend on this site, hosting podcasts, and making youtube videos.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed links

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, Jon2345 said:

Who was dropped? There are people who retire or maybe don't want the extra demand. I think it's important to separate those people from others who were dropped for quality reasons.

Nothing as good as this one but

baldtruthtalk

Hair loss talk

Reddit/hair transplants

though I would say only the last has a decent volume of hairtransplant reviews but there is a annoying trend of people not posting the name of the doctors in their reviews which is wtf but it's getting better since the mods have encouraged people who write out the doctors name. The majority seem to go to cheaper clinics that haven't built up much of a name. I would say the posts are just status updates on their transplants rather than full on reviews.

I see no issue with this. For transparency, are you getting paid for this? Again, no issues with that, considering the time you spend on this site, hosting podcasts, and making youtube videos.

Of course I’m being paid. My time isn’t free. Now, I have to say, it’s quite upsetting to hear “it’s biased” this is not true at all. Any one can post any review from ANY surgeon recommended or not. Anyone can comment and share their opinions good or bad. We do not censor comments, posts, or threads. In fact, there was a recent thread where the patient was trying to use the forum to get a refund. Guess what, we forced the thread to stay up, why? Because transparency and truth is valuable. 

[Yan bio]

26 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Of course I’m being paid. My time isn’t free. Now, I have to say, it’s quite upsetting to hear “it’s biased” this is not true at all. Any one can post any review from ANY surgeon recommended or not. Anyone can comment and share their opinions good or bad. We do not censor comments, posts, or threads. In fact, there was a recent thread where the patient was trying to use the forum to get a refund. Guess what, we forced the thread to stay up, why? Because transparency and truth is valuable. 

you're doing a great job and we definitely can't expect someone to do this vast amount of work for free. Also your responses are always objective, thoughful, and knowledgeable. 

[Jon2345]

53 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Of course I’m being paid. My time isn’t free. Now, I have to say, it’s quite upsetting to hear “it’s biased” this is not true at all. Any one can post any review from ANY surgeon recommended or not. Anyone can comment and share their opinions good or bad. We do not censor comments, posts, or threads. In fact, there was a recent thread where the patient was trying to use the forum to get a refund. Guess what, we forced the thread to stay up, why? Because transparency and truth is valuable. 

Thank you for your transparency Melvin. Like I said, there is no problem with that and I don't feel that there are any biases as long as everything is transparent. And I feel your payment is well deserved, not just with the forum, but with the podcasting, youtube videos, and also behind the scenes work you do on situations where you contact surgeons on behalf of patients.

For further transparency, can you tell us how much you're getting paid?

[Savemyhairline]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Of course I’m being paid. My time isn’t free. Now, I have to say, it’s quite upsetting to hear “it’s biased” this is not true at all. Any one can post any review from ANY surgeon recommended or not. Anyone can comment and share their opinions good or bad. We do not censor comments, posts, or threads. In fact, there was a recent thread where the patient was trying to use the forum to get a refund. Guess what, we forced the thread to stay up, why? Because transparency and truth is valuable. 

Respect. Honestly I’d be concerned if you weren’t being paid given the amount of time I see you put in with posts here, podcasts, your YouTube channel, etc. 

[Melvin- Admin]

16 minutes ago, Jon2345 said:

Thank you for your transparency Melvin. Like I said, there is no problem with that and I don't feel that there are any biases as long as everything is transparent. And I feel your payment is well deserved, not just with the forum, but with the podcasting, youtube videos, and also behind the scenes work you do on situations where you contact surgeons on behalf of patients.

For further transparency, can you tell us how much you're getting paid?

I’m not gonna disclose my earnings, because frankly, it’s nobody’s business. I don’t do this for the money, I do it because I’m passionate about it. I was a regular poster long before I became a moderator and associate publisher.

I was the one who scouted Dr. Pittella and got him to post and exposed him to the community. I don’t say this to brag, but it makes me feel good seeing good doctors getting the recognition they deserve. That’s why this forum is a win-win, we get to promote top-notch surgeons, in turn, they help us keep this community alive, win-win. 

[NARMAK]

I also believe Melvin doesn't need to post his earnings from the forum etc. That's nobody's business. 

What is only relevant imo is that people know this forum allows open discourse and honest reviews from individuals. I think it largely achieves that. Obviously not every case has been smooth sailing with perhaps on some, a side perceived to be taken but it is what it is. 

It's better than the manipulation of hair mills and social media. 

 

[Jon2345]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m not gonna disclose my earnings, because frankly, it’s nobody’s business. I don’t do this for the money, I do it because I’m passionate about it. I was a regular poster long before I became a moderator and associate publisher.

I was the one who scouted Dr. Pittella and got him to post and exposed him to the community. I don’t say this to brag, but it makes me feel good seeing good doctors getting the recognition they deserve. That’s why this forum is a win-win, we get to promote top-notch surgeons, in turn, they help us keep this community alive, win-win. 

 

2 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I also believe Melvin doesn't need to post his earnings from the forum etc. That's nobody's business. 

What is only relevant imo is that people know this forum allows open discourse and honest reviews from individuals. I think it largely achieves that. Obviously not every case has been smooth sailing with perhaps on some, a side perceived to be taken but it is what it is. 

It's better than the manipulation of hair mills and social media. 

 

This is absolutely true. It is a private business, they have the right to withhold any information pertaining to their operations. Some may disagree, but then this principle is doubly true to any business offering a free product or service. It's free. It's like when people hate on Facebook all the time for not disclosing this or that, but at the end of the day the service is free. Don't like it? Don't use it.

So I will go a step further and say that this business is not obligated to disclose anything. Ethically they obligated to be honest, but they have the right to withhold anything.

That being said, I feel that it's in the website's own best interest to disclose how surgeons get scouted, and that in fact the site is sponsored. The purpose of the website is to help people. Transparency about the potential conflicts of interest let people fully evaluate the value of this website, and come to what I believe is the correct conclusion that they should use this website in picking their doctor. [EDIT] These items have been disclosed, to both the website and it's visitors benefit [/EDIT]. Going along these lines I would say there also value in disclosing how much you're making off this website, so that people can weigh in on this potential conflict of interest.

So I implore you to disclose how much money you're making off this website.

But coming full circle, do you have a right to withhold that information? Absolutely. Like I said, "don't like it? Don't use it. "

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Jon2345

[Melvin- Admin]

30 minutes ago, Jon2345 said:

 

This is absolutely true. It is a private business, they have the right to withhold any information pertaining to their operations. Some may disagree, but then this principle is doubly true to any business offering a free product or service. It's free. It's like when people hate on Facebook all the time for not disclosing this or that, but at the end of the day the service is free. Don't like it? Don't use it.

So I will go a step further and say that this business is not obligated to disclose anything. Ethically they obligated to be honest, but they have the right to withhold anything.

That being said, I feel that it's in the website's own best interest to disclose how surgeons get scouted, and that in fact the site is sponsored. The purpose of the website is to help people. Transparency about the potential conflicts of interest let people fully evaluate the value of this website, and come to what I believe is the correct conclusion that they should use this website in picking their doctor. Going along these lines I would say there also value in disclosing how much you're making off this website, so that people can weigh in on this potential conflict of interest.

So I implore you to disclose how much money you're making off this website.

But coming full circle, do you have a right to withhold that information? Absolutely. Like I said, "don't like it? Don't use it. "

 

All of this information is disclosed. It’s posted on our website and I’ve created a thread stating this fact, we’re completely transparent.

https://hairtransplantnetwork.com/Consult-a-Physician/our-hair-restoration-physicians
 

[Ryan Daniel]

@Jon2345 Why do you need a doctor to be part of a list?  

Do the research necessary and you should be educated enough to put all your trust in a doctor before letting them do permanent surgery on you 

[Jon2345]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

All of this information is disclosed. It’s posted on our website and I’ve created a thread stating this fact, we’re completely transparent.

https://hairtransplantnetwork.com/Consult-a-Physician/our-hair-restoration-physicians
 

 

Yes, my last comment was unclear, which I edited for clarity. I was saying it's to the benefit of both the people who run the website and it's visitors to disclose that potential conflict of interest, and it has done so. And along these lines, there is also a benefit to the disclose the conflict of interest of how much money you're making from the website. But like I mentioned before, you absolutely have the right to withhold that information.

30 minutes ago, Ryan Daniel said:

@Jon2345 Why do you need a doctor to be part of a list?  

Do the research necessary and you should be educated enough to put all your trust in a doctor before letting them do permanent surgery on you 

That's right. I didn't need a doctor to be a part of the list, I just wasn't able to figure out why given this community knows the level of their skill, and all those questions were answered. Everything that was said so far makes total sense.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Jon2345