Transplant at 22 NW3. Quick question.

[Dev123]

45 minutes ago, Let me botch you said:

I don't think you should get a transplant now bro. 

You're too young and you may not be satisfied with the result of a hair transplant even if it is objectively good. 

I don't wanna sound negative or pessimistic but the reality is hair transplants are crap. Even the expensive ones. Yes you heard me right. They are CRAP. 

Trading some ugly scars at the back of your head (whether it's FUT strip scar or FUE white dot scarring) for a few low density hairs on the hairline that will never match your native hair density is something that you may regret further down the road...

This is what hair transplants are all about. It's a pretty rough way to put it but that's exactly what it is. 

What if you are unhappy with the outcome ? This is something to think about twice. 

If you "just shave it bruh" you will have to deal with 2 major issues. 

A. Your balding pattern will still be noticeable. 

B. Your scars (both FUT and FUE) will be noticeable. 

This forum is great because it shows the reality of the hair transplant industry. 

Look at how many excellent results there are. There are some for sure but very few. (HugoX, Zoomster, the guy who went to Freitas and got an incredible hairline can't remember his name).  They are the EXCEPTION, definitely not the rule. 

How many people end up with crap density, failed transplant, botched jobs, weird results like Track_Rat for example or permanently damaged donors etc ? A LOT

We witness it on a daily basis here. And not just from turkish hairmills unfortunately... I suggest you spend time on the forum and research like crazy. You'll eventually come to your own conclusions. 

I think you should get on a very strong pharmaceutical stack for the moment. 

Check out MorePlatesMoreDates, Dr. Oscar Muñoz, Haircafé, The Hairloss Show for more info. 

And wait at least until you are 25. 

In the meantime you should start saving some money for future surgery. 

And go with the best of the best. 

I would be very surprised if any REAL reputable doctor agrees to perform a hair transplant on someone under 25 who is not AT LEAST on oral Finasteride/Dutasteride. 

If someone agrees then it's a red flag. Don't go. Even if the clinic is considered "reputable". 

I've seen those cases of H & W, Lorenzo, HLC doing patients under 25.... It just means they want their money and they don't care about the long term consequences for the patient. 

Then at 25 after if you are 100% sure your balding has stabilized with medication you should ask yourself the following questions:

1.  Would I be satisfied if I spend between 10 000 $ and 15 000 $  of my hard-earned money for a new hairline that is still conservative (a politically correct word for receded) and will always look seethrough under harsh artificial lighting or harsh daylight and will never look like me pre-androgenic alopecia ? 

2. Will I be commited to medication for the rest of my life in order to avoid losing more hair on the midscalp and crown ? 

3. Will I accept scarring at the back of my head that unables me to wear very short hairstyles ? 

4. Will I accept to have more surgeries down the road if required ? 

5. Will the accept the possibility of failure ? Even the top docs have failures and crap results although thanks god they are statistically minimal. 

If the answer is yes every time then yeah you'd be a good candidate for a hair transplant.  

If no, then DO NOT GET A HAIR TRANSPLANT. 

Sorry if I sound a bit pessmistic but this is the reality. 

Many people regret getting a hair transplant. Some even think it's the worst mistake of their life. Check out Gatsby's story and Miko's. 

I appreciate the detailed response. I’m open to shaving it down the line, for now I think I’ll try the medication route since I’m a young musician (Image, yada yada yada…) in a frontman position. I’ve considered a lot of this before and have looked at a lot of the resources you’ve sent but you’ve given me a lot more to think about.

[JoselitoElGallo]

1 hour ago, user13 said:

Why do you think that?

Having a fue technic that if it is well perform your donor will look good why would your like use FUT and have a big scar.

[davidn]

dont do it now mate. I have done it and regret it massively.

[THE TRUTH]

Just now, Dev123 said:

I appreciate the detailed response. I’m open to shaving it down the line, for now I think I’ll try the medication route since I’m a young musician (Image, yada yada yada…) in a frontman position. I’ve considered a lot of this before and have looked at a lot of the resources you’ve sent but you’ve given me a lot more to think about.

Thanks bro. 

Again maybe my description was a bit on the pessimistic side of the spectrum.

I just wanted to warn you about the potential long term consequences and limitations. 

Some people do get good results if they follow all the steps and do their due diligence when it comes to research. 

Also the good news is you don't have much hairloss 👍

I would kill to be a only a Norwood 3. 🤣

I believe someone like pinto, freitas or even ximena/ferreira/feriduni/bicer/pekiner can do on awesome job on your hairline with 2 procedures (1st one for foundation + 2nd one to add more density) 

Whichever path you choose to follow, I wish you  best of luck ! 

[JoselitoElGallo]

2 hours ago, davidn said:

I dont think its that easy. FUT+FUE gives you way more grafts. With FUE, you get on average 6-7k. Combined with FUT, this becomes approximately 9k. Fue leaves scars as well, so the "I can just shave" argument does not really hold as well, you will see scars and the transplanted hair does not have enough density for a natural looking buzzcut. BUT I have spoken to various SMP artists who all attest that FUE scars are way easier to hide than FUT (in an emergency scenario). I do think you can hide a FUE procedure relatively well in most cases, FUT is harder (according to the SMP artists).

You answered  very well why I prefer Fue nowadays and most of the people.  In my case I can not even see white docs due the pigmentation of my skin ( My skin is very white)

[Melvin- Admin]

The fact of the matter is you should not get surgery when your future is undetermined. Now, once you’re 30 and your pattern is clearly visible, it is possible to get an HT, if you commit to multiple procedures with top surgeons. You will be able to devise a master plan, and won’t be playing catch up with hair loss. I would also suggest shaving, you may like it. 

[Mike10]

I fully agree with Melvin. Do not get a HT

[Dev123]

18 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

The fact of the matter is you should not get surgery when your future is undetermined. Now, once you’re 30 and your pattern is clearly visible, it is possible to get an HT, if you commit to multiple procedures with top surgeons. You will be able to devise a master plan, and won’t be playing catch up with hair loss. I would also suggest shaving, you may like it. 

If I go that route of waiting until I’m 30 while on finasteride, would that not obscure my “true” hair loss pattern? Especially if it loses efficacy over a decade, I don’t see how that would put me in a different spot as opposed to now if i planned and went all out as if i was a NW6? Or are you saying off finasteride. I know fin is typically a decades-long/lifelong treatment, so I would plan to stick with it.

After reading this forum’s responses, I don’t plan on getting a HT, just playing devil’s advocate.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Dev123

[Hairy Henderson]

I got one at 25 (now 42).

 Lost a good amount of hair of my frontal third from 22-25.  Got on Fin, went to Hasson who did FUT 2k grafts and it was the best decision of my life.  

I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t, just showing the other side of the coin and my experience.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

23 minutes ago, Dev123 said:

If I go that route of waiting until I’m 30 while on finasteride, would that not obscure my “true” hair loss pattern? Especially if it loses efficacy over a decade, I don’t see how that would put me in a different spot as opposed to now if i planned and went all out as if i was a NW6? Or are you saying off finasteride. I know fin is typically a decades-long/lifelong treatment, so I would plan to stick with it.

After reading this forum’s responses, I don’t plan on getting a HT, just playing devil’s advocate.

Well, assuming you get on fin, you could potentially get one sooner maybe at 25. My suggestion was with the assumption you would continue not taking medication. 

Fin is proven. It can stop you from becoming a Norwood 6, and it doesn’t lose efficacy. You will still continue to bald because it is not eliminating DHT completely. So the accumulative effects of DHT would become apparent over time, but if you can keep the crown from balding, you’ve won half the battle in terms of hair restoration.

There’s a few cases here the most famous @MazAB who got on fin at 24, father and uncles were Norwood 6 by 30s, he’s now 50 and maintained at Norwood 3. 

Again, my advice is to start off on the topical. If I could do it all over that’s what I would do. I started on oral fin at your age, got sides and gave up. That cost me dearly. Unfortunately, topical fin wasn’t readily available as it is now. Actually, I think you’d be a good candidate for the xyonhealth topical that’s being given away for a year to the top 5 candidates. You should definitely apply. 
 

 

[davidn]

7 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Well, assuming you get on fin, you could potentially get one sooner maybe at 25. My suggestion was with the assumption you would continue not taking medication. 

Fin is proven. It can stop you from becoming a Norwood 6, and it doesn’t lose efficacy. You will still continue to bald because it is not eliminating DHT completely. So the accumulative effects of DHT would become apparent over time, but if you can keep the crown from balding, you’ve won half the battle in terms of hair restoration.

There’s a few cases here the most famous @MazAB who got on fin at 24, father and uncles were Norwood 6 by 30s, he’s now 50 and maintained at Norwood 3. 

Again, my advice is to start off on the topical. If I could do it all over that’s what I would do. I started on oral fin at your age, got sides and gave up. That cost me dearly. Unfortunately, topical fin wasn’t readily available as it is now. Actually, I think you’d be a good candidate for the xyonhealth topical that’s being given away for a year to the top 5 candidates. You should definitely apply. 
 

 

Very fair advice.

[GoliGoliGoli]

3 hours ago, davidn said:

I dont think its that easy. FUT+FUE gives you way more grafts. With FUE, you get on average 6-7k. Combined with FUT, this becomes approximately 9k. Fue leaves scars as well, so the "I can just shave" argument does not really hold as well, you will see scars and the transplanted hair does not have enough density for a natural looking buzzcut. BUT I have spoken to various SMP artists who all attest that FUE scars are way easier to hide than FUT (in an emergency scenario). I do think you can hide a FUE procedure relatively well in most cases, FUT is harder (according to the SMP artists).

Meh, you can't compare the level of scarring from FUE compared to FUT tbh

[davidn]

Just now, GoliGoliGoli said:

Meh, you can't compare the level of scarring from FUE compared to FUT tbh

I totally agree. But if you shave to skin you will see scars.

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 hour ago, Let me botch you said:

I totally agree with you Melvin. He should not get a hair transplant otherwise he risk becoming like Tilman and Biden. 

However I can only disagree with your statement "forget about oral finasteride". 

Some people refuse it. Fair enough. I respect that. Use alternatives. 

I don't wanna sound like the guy who is pushing it but it is important to stress that this new topical Finasteride is by no means a long term substitute for the oral version. 

No topical treatment that exists (whether it's Dr. Hasson's topical fin, Dutasteride mesotherapy, RU58841, minoxidil, fluridil, spiro, topical estradiol or whatever) could be considered a full-time equally effective standalone alternative to oral 5alpha reductase inhibitors. 

That just isn't true. 

 That said, topical finasteride is certainly better than nothing. 

Why gamble your manhood for some hair? 

[GoliGoliGoli]

6 minutes ago, davidn said:

I totally agree. But if you shave to skin you will see scars.

I mean I dunno... I am very curious about FUE scarring but looking at Mister Rolanadas video's of what is supposedly "very bad" FUE scarring it really isn't that noticeable

[davidn]

5 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I mean I dunno... I am very curious about FUE scarring but looking at Mister Rolanadas video's of what is supposedly "very bad" FUE scarring it really isn't that noticeable

I think they are pretty noticable. I wouldn't feel comfortable like that in public (I mean when he did a 0 Guard, his transplant looks amazing otherwise). But its all subjective. If you would, thats good. Statistically speaking chances are your scarring will look better, as he had almost 7000 grafts, a large skin hair contrast and almost keloid scarring. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by davidn

[Hairy Henderson]

There was a recent case posted on here, don’t remember the doc, but, donor shaved with 0 and scarring virtually unnoticeable 

[THE TRUTH]

15 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Why gamble your manhood for some hair? 

Gamble your manhood ? Lol  On a drug that actually RAISES your free serum testosterone levels. 

Come on bruh.

I don't wanna get into the old finasteride side effects debate. This is not the topic here. It has been discussed a billion times. We all know sides are extremely exagerated. 

You have to decide what is your goal in life. 

Do you want to protect your hair transplant investment long term as much as possible ?

If so, using oral 5ar inhibitors is highly recommended. There is no other way to truly stop androgenetic hairloss except surgical castration or transgender drugs which (unlike 5ar inhibitors) do come with a lot of sides. Growth stimulants like minoxidil, PRP will eventually lose efficacy singe they do not adress the underlying rootcause of why this is happening in the first place: DHT. 

If you want to just get a transplant without finasteride and hang on for a few more years then okay. No problem. But you have to accept the consequences. You'll very quickly reach a point of no return where the demand on the balding recipient area is way too much for the limited supply at the back in the donor area. 

[davidn]

6 minutes ago, Calihome1 said:

There was a recent case posted on here, don’t remember the doc, but, donor shaved with 0 and scarring virtually unnoticeable 

yeah depends a lot on patient physiology right, wouldnt bet on it.

[GoliGoliGoli]

2 minutes ago, Let me botch you said:

Gamble your manhood ? Lol  On a drug that actually RAISES your free serum testosterone levels. 

Come on bruh.

I don't wanna get into the old finasteride side effects debate. This is not the topic here. It has been discussed a billion times. We all know sides are extremely exagerated. 

You have to decide what is your goal in life. 

Do you want to protect your hair transplant investment long term as much as possible ?

If so, using oral 5ar inhibitors is highly recommended. There is no other way to truly stop androgenetic hairloss except surgical castration or transgender drugs which (unlike 5ar inhibitors) do come with a lot of sides. Growth stimulants like minoxidil, PRP will eventually lose efficacy singe they do not adress the underlying rootcause of why this is happening in the first place: DHT. 

If you want to just get a transplant without finasteride and hang on for a few more years then okay. No problem. But you have to accept the consequences. You'll very quickly reach a point of no return where the demand on the balding recipient area is way too much for the limited supply at the back in the donor area. 

Bruh, imagine thinking that testosterone is the only important hormone for your manhood. 

You're right we don't need to into this, but just in regards to your last line I think it's overstated how necessary fin is as long as you are ok with getting 2 or possibly even 3 transplants. Of course a lot of this depends on your donor area and how aggressive your loss pattern is, but I do find people are very heavy handed in thinking that fin is some absolutely necessity given the potential for side effects. 

[davidn]

9 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Bruh, imagine thinking that testosterone is the only important hormone for your manhood. 

You're right we don't need to into this, but just in regards to your last line I think it's overstated how necessary fin is as long as you are ok with getting 2 or possibly even 3 transplants. Of course a lot of this depends on your donor area and how aggressive your loss pattern is, but I do find people are very heavy handed in thinking that fin is some absolutely necessity given the potential for side effects. 

But wny not try it? The drug is fda-approved. There are countless and countless placebo controlled double-blind studies all finding the incidence to be lower than 5%. I just don't think there is anything to lose by trying. If you get side effects, stop. Look at your Family History. Look at your donor. Does it work out? Your recipient will grow, your donor will shrink. If no side effects, great. You save money. You might even avoid transplants altogether. I have zero incentive to convince you of the drug. But I think trying it doesnt hurt.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by davidn

[THE TRUTH]

3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Bruh, imagine thinking that testosterone is the only important hormone for your manhood. 

You're right we don't need to into this, but just in regards to your last line I think it's overstated how necessary fin is as long as you are ok with getting 2 or possibly even 3 transplants. Of course a lot of this depends on your donor area and how aggressive your loss pattern is, but I do find people are very heavy handed in thinking that fin is some absolutely necessity given the potential for side effects. 

Sure bro. 

But Finasteride is necessary to stay "as close as possible to the illusion of full head of hair". 

There is only so many hairs that you can transplant from the donor (without it looking moth-eaten) and your recipient area looking full enough. 

Take at look at Lorenzo fuecapilar's videos. 

I'm not a fan of that hairmill surgeon at all. 

But he has some interesting documented cases showing long term evolutions of patients combining transplants and finasteride, some stopping finasteride, getting multiples surgeries. You'll see what I'm talking about. 

The point is that you can never really replace what you lost and make it look dense (by dense I mean normal native density) with transplants.  But it's much easier to keep what you have  with finasteride. 

 

[Mike10]

14 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Bruh, imagine thinking that testosterone is the only important hormone for your manhood. 

You're right we don't need to into this, but just in regards to your last line I think it's overstated how necessary fin is as long as you are ok with getting 2 or possibly even 3 transplants. Of course a lot of this depends on your donor area and how aggressive your loss pattern is, but I do find people are very heavy handed in thinking that fin is some absolutely necessity given the potential for side effects. 

It depends on the case.  At 22, it is necessary. In my case: 40 years, NW2 no hair loss in the mid scalp and crown , thick donor area,  it is not necessary. At the end, I think that in a lot of cases Fin is highly recommended if not necessary. Otherwise you're gonn chase your hair loss and at the end not have enough donor to cover the bald spots.

[GoliGoliGoli]

7 minutes ago, davidn said:

But wny not try it? The drug is fda-approved. There are countless and countless placebo controlled double-blind studies all finding the incidence to be lower than 5%. I just don't think there is anything to lose by trying. If you get side effects, stop. Look at your Family History. Look at your donor. Does it work out? Your recipient will grow, your donor will shrink. If no side effects, great. You save money. You might even avoid transplants altogether. I have zero incentive to convince you of the drug. But I think trying it doesnt hurt.

 

I would not take FDA approval as indicative of much (I say this as a biology major who also works in the pharma industry, although not directly in a bio related role). 5% is also a fairly high rate considering what the potential side effect is here - it's not like we're talking about a side effect like it makes your feet swell up or your hands a little sweaty. I would also just add that for a variety of reasons peer reviewed studies are not as reliable as one would hope (Google "peer review replication crisis"). Anecdotal evidence is important in making decisions for yourself. There are plenty of people on here who reported side effects on Fin so for me it's been enough to scare me off of it. I am hopefuly however about the new Hasson topical coming out. 

[davidn]

14 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I would not take FDA approval as indicative of much (I say this as a biology major who also works in the pharma industry, although not directly in a bio related role). 5% is also a fairly high rate considering what the potential side effect is here - it's not like we're talking about a side effect like it makes your feet swell up or your hands a little sweaty. I would also just add that for a variety of reasons peer reviewed studies are not as reliable as one would hope (Google "peer review replication crisis"). Anecdotal evidence is important in making decisions for yourself. There are plenty of people on here who reported side effects on Fin so for me it's been enough to scare me off of it. I am hopefuly however about the new Hasson topical coming out. 

Thanks for the lecture, did not have to google it. As a statistics major, I mentioned that countless studies have found the same incidence for side effects and you reference a replication crisis? This does not make any sense, I just mentioned that it was replicated over and over. Nothing wrong with anecdotal evidence, but if you talk about skewed data. We do not have anything close to a random sample nor a control group by reading reports on the internet and especially a hair transplant forum. This introduces various data biases, first and foremost selection bias.  I leave it here, but I would rather trust the FDA decision which is rather thorough in evaluating drugs, especially in dermatology/aesthethics than reports on the internet. But I genuinely wish you the best, I think it can work out with multiple hair transplants, I just think it is worth trying.

Edited July 9, 2022 by davidn