Examples of dense pack 40,50,60 FU/cm2

[Fmulder]

Hi

1. What is considered a dense pack is 40 FU/cm2, or just from 50 FU/cm2 above?
2. How can we measure by eye the desity, do you have examples for average hair caliber which is not wavy or curly with 40 FU/cm2 , 50 and 60
I want to train my eye and understand what will suit my expectations.

3. I will give two videos of a top notch surgeon from what I heard  - Lorenzo.
    In these two videos although there is an improvment, I cannot understand how this satisfy the patients, I may be missing something but seems like low results for both videos,
    but the background rock music really cool.
    What is the desnity achieved in your opinion for boths videos?

    a. 

b. See that patient finish with a really long comb over look, which seems pretty sparse in a very selective combing

 

[Hair4Days]

Supposedly 40 g per sq cm on average will have the visual of no thinning. I’ve also heard 30 could satisfy a majority of patients. During a consult  I’ve been told my mid scalp (which is the thickest area of my hair) is probably around 30. My mid scalp, to me, is 100% acceptable at this current time, so to have that all over i personally would be satisfied. 

[Gramatik]

Generally Dr Lorenzo's results are not anything special, and they do look average. On many of his videos although in the description says the density is 40 or 45 for some areas, the result lacks of good density and looks like grafts did not yield at maximum. He is also way too overpriced for what he offers. He only participates in some part of implantation while extraction is done by techs, because he is doing 3 to 4 patients per day.

I would suggest if anyone wanted to go to Spain, then he should avoid Dr Lorenzo and go to Freitas or Couto.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Gramatik

[Fue3361]

I measured mine and it was between 75 and 80 fu/cm2.  Here’s some pics:

 

 

last picture is 9 months post op.

[Fmulder]

22 hours ago, Hair4Days said:

Supposedly 40 g per sq cm on average will have the visual of no thinning. I’ve also heard 30 could satisfy a majority of patients. During a consult  I’ve been told my mid scalp (which is the thickest area of my hair) is probably around 30. My mid scalp, to me, is 100% acceptable at this current time, so to have that all over i personally would be satisfied. 

Can I see somewhere how much 40 per cm square looks in real world, some picture\video?

[Vann]

Theres really no saying what it looks like... you could have 40 cm squared of multis or singles. It really depends on where it is placed. Donor density, hair quality, and many other factors.

 

[Fmulder]

22 hours ago, Gramatik said:

Generally Dr Lorenzo's results are not anything special, and they do look average. On many of his videos although in the description says the density is 40 or 45 for some areas, the result lacks of good density and looks like grafts did not yield at maximum. He is also way too overpriced for what he offers. He only participates in some part of implantation while extraction is done by techs, because he is doing 3 to 4 patients per day.

I would suggest if anyone wanted to go to Spain, then he should avoid Dr Lorenzo and go to Freitas or Couto.

how would you rate Ferreira and Pinto from portugal with the ones you mentioned?

[Fmulder]

2 hours ago, Fue3361 said:

I measured mine and it was between 75 and 80 fu/cm2.  Here’s some pics:

 

 

last picture is 9 months post op.

Amazing, but unfortunetely I have Nw6 areas to cover up, I was told I have around 7500- 8000 grafts from donor and maybe more 3000 beard
Now with all that "theoritical cash", I am trying to understand what will be the best investment for my hair line and beyond it in terms of density.
If you have any thoughts, please let me know.

Regarding your case, what was the measurments of your recipient area if lets say you have an average of 77 fu/cm2 ?
How much grafts were singles, how much doubles, as you know 77 per cm square singles is not as 77 doubles , etc.

 

[Fue3361]

5 hours ago, Fmulder said:

Amazing, but unfortunetely I have Nw6 areas to cover up, I was told I have around 7500- 8000 grafts from donor and maybe more 3000 beard
Now with all that "theoritical cash", I am trying to understand what will be the best investment for my hair line and beyond it in terms of density.
If you have any thoughts, please let me know.

Regarding your case, what was the measurments of your recipient area if lets say you have an average of 77 fu/cm2 ?
How much grafts were singles, how much doubles, as you know 77 per cm square singles is not as 77 doubles , etc.

 

Never asked.  I do know that it was a total of 3361 grafts, 7730 hairs.  As for area, also don’t know, but here’s a pic showing it pre surgery marked out:

 

 

[Gramatik]

11 hours ago, Fmulder said:

how would you rate Ferreira and Pinto from portugal with the ones you mentioned?

Best one is Couto, while Freitas, Ferreira and Pinto are in simillar level. It also depends on your specific norwood, snce some doctors prefer higher norwoods while others prefer the opposite one.

[Fmulder]

9 hours ago, Gramatik said:

Best one is Couto, while Freitas, Ferreira and Pinto are in simillar level. It also depends on your specific norwood, snce some doctors prefer higher norwoods while others prefer the opposite one.

Who prefer what from this list?

[shadowcast]

I had a hair transplant with Lorenzo, the post-op stats are a little hard to follow but it looks like I have anywhere from 38 to 51 g/cm2. I don't know what % of grafts grew, but visually it looks close to 100%. I'd say visually I pass the eye test for hair loss (better than the two videos posted above), with the thickest area looking pretty dense, but I don't know that any of it would be considered a "dense pack". In my mind, dense packing is a situation where you risk graft survival because of competition for blood flow. My result just looks like a "regular" good hair transplant. I'd say @Fue3361 is a dense pack. That's a seriously amazing transplant.

Edited June 28, 2022 by shadowcast

[THE TRUTH]

On 6/27/2022 at 1:58 AM, Gramatik said:

Generally Dr Lorenzo's results are not anything special, and they do look average. On many of his videos although in the description says the density is 40 or 45 for some areas, the result lacks of good density and looks like grafts did not yield at maximum. He is also way too overpriced for what he offers. He only participates in some part of implantation while extraction is done by techs, because he is doing 3 to 4 patients per day.

I would suggest if anyone wanted to go to Spain, then he should avoid Dr Lorenzo and go to Freitas or Couto.

Agree 100%. 

Dr. Lorenzo used to be great but his Medilor clinic has become a hairmill that outsources a lot of the work to young technicians with questionable training and there's a  massive turnover among them which is a bad sign...

I like his videos though, they are very educationnal but I  don't feel confident recommending him anymore and there are certainly MUCH better options in Spain/Portugal. 

[Fue3361]

8 hours ago, shadowcast said:

I had a hair transplant with Lorenzo, the post-op stats are a little hard to follow but it looks like I have anywhere from 38 to 51 g/cm2. I don't know what % of grafts grew, but visually it looks close to 100%. I'd say visually I pass the eye test for hair loss (better than the two videos posted above), with the thickest area looking pretty dense, but I don't know that any of it would be considered a "dense pack". In my mind, dense packing is a situation where you risk graft survival because of competition for blood flow. My result just looks like a "regular" good hair transplant. I'd say @Fue3361 is a dense pack. That's a seriously amazing transplant.

Thanks.  
 

I think the term “dense pack” generally refers to the top of the “acceptable” densities most surgeons go for.  That often seems to be somewhere between 55-65 grafts.  I’ve usually seen 55+ referred to as dense packing.

 

[A Fue Good Men]

Lorenzo top notch? Far from it.

 

He may try to implant at 50+ grafts/cm but his yields are nowhere near that and his videos clearly show that. That’s what happens when you lead a tech run clinic.

 

if you want to see real density look at results from couto, de Freitas, pinto. They have great yield and unreal looking density with moderate graft numbers.

[shadowcast]

6 hours ago, 5BetaReductase said:

Lorenzo top notch? Far from it.

 

He may try to implant at 50+ grafts/cm but his yields are nowhere near that and his videos clearly show that. That’s what happens when you lead a tech run clinic.

 

if you want to see real density look at results from couto, de Freitas, pinto. They have great yield and unreal looking density with moderate graft numbers.

I have a high-def photo of my buzzed scalp where there's literally an area of Lorenzo implant directly next to an area of Pinto implant. The density is basically the same - and this was Lorenzo implanting on slick bald skin vs. Pinto implanting into a diffuse area. In my opinion, Pinto is the better doctor all around, but to say Lorenzo isn't competent enough to give "real" density is ridiculous.

[THE TRUTH]

6 minutes ago, shadowcast said:

I have a high-def photo of my buzzed scalp where there's literally an area of Lorenzo implant directly next to an area of Pinto implant. The density is basically the same - and this was Lorenzo implanting on slick bald skin vs. Pinto implanting into a diffuse area. In my opinion, Pinto is the better doctor all around, but to say Lorenzo isn't competent enough to give "real" density is ridiculous.

Pinto is better than Lorenzo. 

The two main issues with Lorenzo is the fact that he uses young technicians with highly questionable training. He changes his techs very often...

Also let's be honest his clinic is a hairmill. He does at least 4 patients per day. 

A serious and ethical doctor would never do that...

 

 

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

Fmulder,

Density is typically measured in FU/cm2 (follicular units per square centimeter) however, in most cases when surgeons are referring to density, they’re talking about single haired follicular units.

There are dissenting opinions even amongst leading hair restoration physicians regarding ideal and even average density of both natural hair and transplanted hair.  But since hair loss isn’t actually noticeable until one loses approximately 50% of their hair, in order to Make the best use of donor hair and keep some in reserve, surgeons typically keep density around half of true density. In cases where current hair loss and risks of future thinning hair is minimal, surgeons may add more density to the thinning areas.

There are also variables to consider such as hair caliber, hair shaft diameter, hair color to scalp color contrast ratio, number of hairs per graft, natural hair density, etc.  shaun, appropriate density or dense packing on one individual may be a little different than another. But on average, I’d say 40 to 70 FU/cm2 would be considered dense packing depending on the individual.

Best wishes,

Rahal Hair Transplant 

[A Fue Good Men]

2 hours ago, shadowcast said:

I have a high-def photo of my buzzed scalp where there's literally an area of Lorenzo implant directly next to an area of Pinto implant. The density is basically the same - and this was Lorenzo implanting on slick bald skin vs. Pinto implanting into a diffuse area. In my opinion, Pinto is the better doctor all around, but to say Lorenzo isn't competent enough to give "real" density is ridiculous.

It’s not a question of whether he’s competent or not. IMO he’s focused on $ now more than anything. Juggling 4 patients at once while doing consultations and follow ups in the middle is not ideal. Quality suffers at some point.

 

A 2 minute pre op meeting before heading to the OR. Drawing the hairline in 5 minutes AFTER grafts are all extracted. High turnover rate of techs. These are not signs of a top tier clinic. His prices are ridiculous for a tech run clinic as well.

 

4 patients a day, 4 times a week. That’s a lot of money to be made.

[THE TRUTH]

37 minutes ago, 5BetaReductase said:

It’s not a question of whether he’s competent or not. IMO he’s focused on $ now more than anything. Juggling 4 patients at once while doing consultations and follow ups in the middle is not ideal. Quality suffers at some point.

 

A 2 minute pre op meeting before heading to the OR. Drawing the hairline in 5 minutes AFTER grafts are all extracted. High turnover rate of techs. These are not signs of a top tier clinic. His prices are ridiculous for a tech run clinic as well.

 

4 patients a day, 4 times a week. That’s a lot of money to be made.

Totally agree. 

He is hairmill. 

Definitely not worth 5€ per graft...

[Gramatik]

Lorenzo indeed has become a very expensive hairmill, with average-bad results. He is NOT considered as a safe option.