SVR non-detectable Hepatitis C

[Alexeus]

Hello everybody!

 

I am a patient after succesful Hepatitis C treatment (Epclusa). It's a very strong medication and I believe that it played it's own role on loosing my hair more although my doctor says that it doesn't do such an effect. But anyway.

 

After that treatment (in 2017) we did my blood work (first in august 2017 and then in January 2018, six month after) and according to the laboratory result, sustained virologic response (SVR) showed that I don't have any detactable virus in my blood. In USA (I don't know about other countries but according to my recent expirience they don't) patients like me considered as CURED.

 

The only thing we will always have in our blood is anti-bodies of hepatitis C. Which accually they checking for in Turkey.

 

I spoke to some clinic in Turkey. They got my photos, we agreed on operation and I already came there but after they took my blood they started saying that I have a Hepatitis C and don't suit for the operation. And all my explanations was denied.

 

So, my question is: Are we doomed (people like me)?

 

Is it possible for us to get a hair transplant operation or we will hear only excuses and kind readdress-es with "honest" wishes for us to find the other ("right") clinic?

 

Is anybody knows anything about this?

 

And another question which is not coming out from my head: what is wrong with our american clinics??? Why they are so expensive? They are buying ARTAS robotic machines just to have it, or they are buying it to get it worked?

 

I saw at least ten people came to that clinic (that day) wich I used to be and all of those people were admitted and went to the operation room for the surgery.

 

In America we do one patient per day!!! This is ridiculous... And price... What's up with the price guys? Why all inclusive in Turkey cost $1,800 and over here the same operation 4000-5000 grafts will cost you $$20,000-30,000 dollars?

 

I understand that we have different living but isn't it really coudn't be a less then that? phhh... They don't even count those grafts... they just say: few thousands gonna cost that much... It means that their hair transplant operations goes much smooth and easier (as I understand) if they don't pay so much attention to every graft they extract. Why can't we do the same? Why we can not learn from them? Why we say everywhere that we certified surgeons with hundred years expirience but in reality we worth nothing and don't do the job they do?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Alexeus

[Spanker]

There are plenty of docs that will still work on you.

 

That said, if you think it is ridiculous we only do one patient a day, you need to do more research.

 

What you are describing is a Turkish hair transplant mill.

 

A top doc will count every graft and the number of hairs in those grafts. Your saying it's good that the clinics you describe shoot from the hip? That s how you get multiples in the hairline, crappy yield, and you look the a dollar store doll on your head.

 

Go where you want, or better yet, don't have the surgery.

 

You could also be better served to get a hair system than a Go to a hair mill.

[Alexeus]

There are plenty of docs that will still work on you.

 

You are right. And yesterday few responded to me and I address now their offers. Two from India, one from Greece, two clinics in Turkey, they even take HIV patients.

 

That said, if you think it is ridiculous we only do one patient a day, you need to do more research.

 

What you are describing is a Turkish hair transplant mill.

 

And over here probably you are right, but this mill works and works very good.

 

What else do you need besides good results? They do it and give it to you.

 

A top doc will count every graft and the number of hairs in those grafts. Your saying it's good that the clinics you describe shoot from the hip? That s how you get multiples in the hairline, crappy yield, and you look the a dollar store doll on your head.

 

Unless it's a new clinic and some dummies work over there, they don't do such a mistakes anymore. I've been researching this field for almost a year and I think I can be already a hair transplant surgeon ))))

 

I didn't want to offend anybody, I am sorry. I just wonder how quick, silently and effective they work without claiming themselves Certified (!) Surgeons with "hundred" years experience.

 

You could also be better served to get a hair system than a Go to a hair mill.

 

This "Hair System" is in the stagnation phase compare to "Hair Mill" which effectively works and does the perfect job.

 

Our doctors, - by thinking about grafts, - actually thinking only about money! You can vividly see it by watching how their webpages work. They jump right away on everyone who just visited it. And they charge 6 to 8 dollars per graft, are you kidding me? As I said before: do they buy their ARTAS machines just to have them in the clinic for show off or they want them actually work?

 

I thought they learn economy in the school and universities. They forgot how quantity can improve their business. If they can not count, then they need to suffer with no customers untill they realise what is going on.

 

They need to hire me, to change their situation ))) I would do some changes in their minds and force them to actual work. They need to move, to start actually doing their job, and THINK about what they do!!! It's very important. And little by little get it to the point when they will be booked for months ahead, with (at least) few customers per day. I would make the price no more than $2 per graft, preferrably even $1. And work, and work, and work...

 

I say: half of our lifes we work for our names and the other half our name is working for us. American hair surgeons don't understand this. It's been so many years they worked in this field, and no one of them is worked for their name...

[Spanker]

Even with the Art as, they will do only one procedure unless they do 2 which are very small.

Good luck with your procedure. I hope to cone back and post the results so you can show everyone what they are missing.

[JayLDD]

You are right. And yesterday few responded to me and I address now their offers. Two from India, one from Greece, two clinics in Turkey, they even take HIV patients.

 

 

 

And over here probably you are right, but this mill works and works very good.

 

What else do you need besides good results? They do it and give it to you.

 

 

 

Unless it's a new clinic and some dummies work over there, they don't do such a mistakes anymore. I've been researching this field for almost a year and I think I can be already a hair transplant surgeon ))))

 

I didn't want to offend anybody, I am sorry. I just wonder how quick, silently and effective they work without claiming themselves Certified (!) Surgeons with "hundred" years experience.

 

 

 

This "Hair System" is in the stagnation phase compare to "Hair Mill" which effectively works and does the perfect job.

 

Our doctors, - by thinking about grafts, - actually thinking only about money! You can vividly see it by watching how their webpages work. They jump right away on everyone who just visited it. And they charge 6 to 8 dollars per graft, are you kidding me? As I said before: do they buy their ARTAS machines just to have them in the clinic for show off or they want them actually work?

 

I thought they learn economy in the school and universities. They forgot how quantity can improve their business. If they can not count, then they need to suffer with no customers untill they realise what is going on.

 

They need to hire me, to change their situation ))) I would do some changes in their minds and force them to actual work. They need to move, to start actually doing their job, and THINK about what they do!!! It's very important. And little by little get it to the point when they will be booked for months ahead, with (at least) few customers per day. I would make the price no more than $2 per graft, preferrably even $1. And work, and work, and work...

 

I say: half of our lifes we work for our names and the other half our name is working for us. American hair surgeons don't understand this. It's been so many years they worked in this field, and no one of them is worked for their name...

 

This post is a mess and clearly shooting from the hip, but there is more truth here than many would care to admit.

 

There are techs working for Lorenzo, Erdogan, Feriduni etc who are without any doubt more competent than the typical generic cosmetic surgeon in the US offering ARTAS procedures with horrible results; low yields, poor planning, butchery of the donor and minimal cosmetic improvement. Even the idea that the typical US surgeon who has spent a decade doing FUTs and branches into a few FUE cases a week for ultra-low graft numbers is going to be as competent as a tech who is doing it day in day out and specifically focusing on extractions is laughable. No America, there is nothing special about your doctors that equates to them being automatically better than Turkish techs. 95% of US surgeons don't have more than 20 FUE cases to look at online. You'd be just as stupid to opt for one as a random Turkish clinic.

 

Same as in Australia the economic issue is real, regulations forcing a surgeon to be involved with all elements of the procedure, drastically higher wages for techs along with land + construction prices is going to equate to a market that isn't globally competitive. Anyone who has studied even high school level economics will understand this.

 

And Spanker, your comment has merit for guiding a noobie but in reality *why* would a US surgeon who is likely only doing a few FUE cases per week (which is the norm) going to be as competent as a Turkish tech doing it every day, without the fatigue of being involved in every aspect of the procedure? This is just delusional American exceptionalism. Obviously there are a significant amount of hair mills and techs that just don't give a shit, but a complete critique of the hair mill model isn't based in logic or reality and like OP mentioned shows a failure to understand economics or logic. A top end team of techs performing one part of a procedure for 3 hours is more likely to do a consistently good job and become exceptionally skilled at their role than a surgeon fatigued by 9 hours of work across extractions, incisions and implantation.

 

There are particularly outstanding surgeons like Konior with a proven track record who by choosing them you are lowering your risk drastically by avoiding unknown techs, but respected surgeons like Lorenzo opt for a "hair mill" model performing FUE on 4 patients per day and quite frankly there are NO FUE surgeons in the US with his track record, at least not available to view online. There are less than fifteen FUE Konior cases to look at on the web. No disrespect, but I contacted him directly to see more of his FUE cases about 6 months ago and his answer was "I'm booked out for 12 months, I'm not going to show you any". Yeah, I'll stick with European "hair mills" like Lorenzo and Erdogan's clinic thanks.

[Spanker]

And Spanker, your comment has merit for guiding a noobie but in reality *why* would a US surgeon who is likely only doing a few FUE cases per week (which is the norm) going to be as competent as a Turkish tech doing it every day, without the fatigue of being involved in every aspect of the procedure?

 

Surgeon's like those in the site have their names and livelihoods attached to each case. This is just one reason I prefer doctors that are involved in the entire procedure.

 

This is just delusional American exceptionalism.

 

I think America is pretty awesome, and in a lot of cases, exceptional. Some of things are debatable and some are not (Like less than 5 percent of the world's population producing 25 percent of it's wealth.) But i don't see anything in this post that points to American HT surgeons being better because they are American. Prices are driven by supply and demand. The demand for top surgeons, no matter where they are, create a market for talented people. People like Konior, who is a surgeon by trade before doing transplants got in to it because he liked it and because there is a demand for talented people to do it. So the demand for the surgery plus the supply of people that can pay for the surgery is what keeps him in business. Truth is, say Konior has 1000 more cases in him, he could probably increase his price 50 percent and still fill every case. Because the there are 1000 people with enough funds that want a procedure from him that are willing to pay that price. This isn't just him, but some other top docs. I don't say this to sound cocky, but to say what you are calling American Excepionalism is really capitalism, which was probably conceived in Europe (Smith and Marxx) but maybe perfected in America, who has the #1 ecomony in the world but a significant amount. Like bigger the #2 and #3 combined. Some people drive Hondas, which are good vehicles but some drive Aston Martin's. When it comes to my hair, I really try not to price shop. I'm not rich, but I did ok, and I don't get paid by Konior. That said, there are guys that charge less I'm sure that do great work. I'd let Cooley, Hasson, Shapiro, Gabel, Bisanga, and a few more do work on me if I didn't choose Konior. I don't follow their prices. But there are plenty out there to choose from without being 1 of 10.

 

Obviously there are a significant amount of hair mills and techs that just don't give a shit, but a complete critique of the hair mill model isn't based in logic or reality and like OP mentioned shows a failure to understand economics or logic. A top end team of techs performing one part of a procedure for 3 hours is more likely to do a consistently good job and become exceptionally skilled at their role than a surgeon atigued by 9 hours of work across extractions, incisions and implantation.

 

I'd love to see a Turkish hair mill doing 10 procedures a day that consistently produces results like Konior, Cooley, Hasson, etc. I say that seriously and as a consumer and hair loss sufferer. If you could go to the mall and get a Konior-Cooley-Shapiro-Gabel-Hasson level hair transplant for $1 a graft, I'd be happy and Konior would probably retire, and I think that he would be happy too. That means that there would be amazing advancement in hair surgery that would be mind blowing. It would be something to see.. I'm sure that a lot of clinics produce OK results. Have you ever looked at Chinese mass produced art? From a distance, it looks ok. One person will make dozens of paintings at a time. If you study art, and even if you don't, you quickly see that the work is pretty crappy. But Rembrandt produced about 300 in his life. Your logic suggests that the Chinese painter mass producing paintings would quickly surpass the artistry of Rembrandt because they do so many more. While there may be a few of them that would rival or surpass Rembrant's skill, it would be pretty unlikely that you will draw that match. Especially randomly. The Chinese mass painter doesn't have his name attached to them or the practice that he spent a lifetime building. He doesn't have the time to make sure each stroke is perfect. I've watched Konior at the end of a procedure go back and touch 100s of grafts making sure the direction is still perfect with the natural curl of the hair. I've seen him separate 1s and fine 1s so he knows producing the softest hairline possible. I'm sure that it's insulting to a top doc (especially a surgeon) that makes this his life's work for people to suggest that you can get as good as a result from a technician with 6 months of on the job training. I generally just offer advice and wish them luck. It's no skin off my teeth and I'll lose no sleep over someone going any clinic.

 

There are particularly outstanding surgeons like Konior with a proven track record who by choosing them you are lowering your risk drastically by avoiding unknown techs, but respected surgeons like Lorenzo opt for a "hair mill" model performing FUE on 4 patients per day and quite frankly there are NO FUE surgeons in the US with his track record, at least not available to view online.

 

Lorenzo does some great work. I had no idea that he was doing 4 patients a day,

For me personally, this would disqualify him to work on me, but it's he's got some good work, some really good work, but I personally couldn't take a risk of a new tech working on me.

 

 

There are less than fifteen FUE Konior cases to look at on the web. No disrespect, but I contacted him directly to see more of his FUE cases about 6 months ago and his answer was "I'm booked out for 12 months, I'm not going to show you any".

 

Konior gets a lot of window shoppers and he doesn't spend a lot of time on prospective patients that are still in shopping mode. He posts what he can, but concentrates on his time on patients that have done their research independently and trust his work, so when he isnt doing surgery, he is counseling patients about if they are good candidates, and if so, what the best plan is for them. He just doesn't have enough time to do what he does and prove to dozens of patients a week that he does good work. It's unfortunate if it wasn't communicated in a more politically sensitive way. The good thing is, that if you are his patient, you get his undivided attention.

 

 

Yeah, I'll stick with European "hair mills" like Lorenzo and Erdogan's clinic thanks.p

Thats cool, HTs are a personal decision. Going to Lorenzo and Erdogan is not the same as going to a random hair mill and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Spanker