MHR

[Mahair]

have enough people been butchered and lied to to start a class action lawsuite yet?

[Mahair]

have enough people been butchered and lied to to start a class action lawsuite yet?

[qvarnis]

Mahair,

 

Ive heard nothing but negative experiences with MHR, are they really that bad? If so, how is it that they are still around. The first time I discovered any info about HT's was when I was passing through New York a few years ago and stumbled across one of their info evenings. Have to admit I almost got one there and then, good thing I didnt.... I guess.

 

qvarnis

[dodgedabullet]

Going there was one of the worst experiences of my life.

[Smoothy]

BEWARE__ DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!

[qvarnis]

Smoothy

 

Ok, so these guys are wrong... hair factories etc. We all write on the forum with the hope of educating and being educated (also just to have a chat is a positive and understanding environment). But are we doing all we can?

 

Everyone who writes on the forum shares a common situation and I dont believe any of us would want another man to go through a HT and have themselves butchered by an unethical butcher type doctor/HT company.

 

The forum must be funded somehow, is it possible to raise extra funds to advertise the forum to prospective HT clients so they can make a more informed decision? I dont mean for the forum to make money because it is not here for commercial gain. I mean can we get it out to more men by promoting it, newspapers, magazines, radio etc.

 

I guess my question is are we doing all we can to get it out there?

 

Most will know I write from Australia. I promote the forum to friends, collegues and even strangers when the conversation comes up, I would never hesitate to promote the gains available to all of us from sharing our experiences.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

qvarnis

[EastCoast]

Be careful of most HT surgeons with a lot of experience. Back in the day most were trained at Bosley, MHR, etc. BAD HABITS !!!

[Kez]

I can't accept such a blanket condemnation. As I posted somewhere else, I could quite well see a talented surgeon cut his teeth at one of these clinics, and leave once he felt confident enough, in order to set up on his own and do a much better job. A lot of successful businesses follow this route.

 

And how does an aspiring hair surgeon get experience, unless he signs up with some umbrella operation? It's how every business ( and medical profession ) works. Some may be inattentive, and unquestioning of what's going on, and pick up "bad habits", but everywhere I've worked, I've always found ways in which I could do something better. So it depends on the individual.

 

(I'm not promoting the hair mills, having gone to one of the forums "top guns" for my own HT. Just want to flag up other possibilities )

[Robert_]

Kez,

 

Your statement "I cannot accept such a blanket condemnation" is right on.

 

While I obviously do not agree with the past sins of many clinics (especially the large chains) I do agree that many physicians that are cutting their teeth at them will be the future of this industry.

 

MHR, for one has a training program for new physicians to the field. In the past, this did not exist. While these chains do not provide the consistent results and service that one will get from a top-notch clinic, I think that it is great that they are making strides to make up for it. Plus, many of thesse physicians will not be at MHR forever. There can be some real talent coming out of these training programs in the years to come.

 

It is easy to condemn, but once we start condemning with blanket statements and not being open to the positive possibilities is when we shut the door to new advances, techniques, and who knows what else?

 

-Robert

[gillenator]

Robert,

 

For a business to state that they have a training program for new doctors implies nothing in itself. What exactly does a so-called training/internship program consist of? What exactly is it composed of? Unless you have specifics on anyone's so-called training program and know "how" or "if" it is administered it is meaningless. And I'm not referring to any specific organization, as this is apparent in many other industries.

 

How many times have we heard from organizations about their training programs that may be laid out on paper but never transpire to the employees? Or better yet, they may only implement portions of the program, that which serves their financial interest. The true indication of a clinic who is genuine and true to what they propogate will be evidenced by forthcoming clinical findings, clinical contributions that are published to the community, and they will receive praise and confirmations from their peers and colleagues, and yes even criticism at times but there IS feedback. A good sign will be the societies and corresponding certification boards commending that clinic's training program and principles. How often do you see those words of praise to the hair mills? Better yet, how many docs come out of these hair mills with words of praise about their astute clinical training they received at the hair mills? Most of what I have observed are those docs who got their start/training in the mills are very quiet about it and do not disclose the fact they even worked there unless asked. And even then they seem very vague in their responses.

 

So what is propogated to the new doctors and patients is not necessarily transpired in their clinics, the real world. That does not imply that any HT doctor who breaks away from the mills does not do good work, in fact the ones that I have seen leave the mills tend to have very good material reasons for doing so. Past sins?!

[Robert_]

Gill,

 

Great points.

 

However, while it may seem like I was advocating these chains' programs in praise, I was more or less only stating that I am glad that there is something in place for "fresh" physicians that are new to the field. As you know, many physicians that start out in this field had no formal training, guidance, or experience at all before they hung a sign that said "Hair Transplants Here." That, obviously, helped the field get the stigma that it still has in many respects today. My point is that I am glad that at least something is in place for some of these doctors so they can at least gain experience and knowledge about the procedure. Now, what they do with that knowledge will be the ultimate question.

 

-Robert

[gillenator]

Thanks Robert,

 

I appreciate your response and I do understand where you are coming from. In my viewpoint which is based on experience and observations, the good independents not only train their interns one-on-one, but administer a mentoring program quite unlike what the hair mills so-called training programs entail. Yes, obviously there is some level of teaching that may take place, but you would be amazed where alot of the chains emphasize assembly line production. So the focus too many times is on quantity over quality. Let's face it, money and profits are the bottom line to these hair mills and that's where their emphasis has always been and will always be. Their actions speak so much louder than their words or marketing schemes.

[Robert_]

Oh, Gill, do I totally understand your points. There is no doubt in my mind that money is the bottom line for these clinics and that the assembly-line method is utilized. I am certainly not advocating any of these clinics!

 

I like to think that I have done extensive research into this field (if I haven't, I need to get on the ball, right? haha) and I will not go on record and endorse a physician whos chair I would not sit in in the blink of an eye.

 

When I was offered this position I took this into consideration. I took note that I would have to go on record day in and day out and have to be comfortable with saying to other hair loss sufferers, "yes, this physician will do a fine job. you can expect nothing but the best."

 

I took that weight with great consideration. I did my research on each Coalition physician. I saw literally hundreds of before/after pictures. I have spoken to them in emails, over the phone, and in person when possible.

 

I thoroughly, and with great comfort, would recommend each of them to anyone that is in the shoes that I wore just a few months ago.

 

It is this forum that saved me from "becoming a statistic" to a large hair mill. I would have inevitably turned to one of them eventually due to their infomercials, glossy brochures, and magazine ads.

 

I am eternally grateful that I did not turn to one of these outfits and I am eternally grateful that I have the opportunity to help others make a great decision that they will love for the rest of their lives. At NO time will this include me EVER saying that they should go to a large chain.

 

However, for the people out there that choose not to educate themselves, who bypass the research, and who put their trust into these corporations, I am grateful that there is at least SOME improvement going on.

 

-Robert

[gillenator]

Robert,

 

It is indeed your honesty, wisdom, genuineness, and concern for others (us) that makes you the best Forum Moderator we could possibly have.

 

We all appreciate your dedication and the homework you do in this field and I know that is in addition to your classes in school. Thank you for your thoughts and input on this thread and yes we should be thankful for "any" improvements in the HT industry. I just get so frustrated with the mills and other unenthical doctors because there is never a week that goes by that I do not hear from someone in confidence regarding a butcher job they received. Then these mills often turn their backs on these folks when they are at their lowest emotional point. This still goes on current day.

 

But like you, I am thankful for a forum like HTN, a place where honest objective advice is many times provided, and hopefully more patients will educate themselves "before" they step into the OR room. Take care my good friend and OH, before I forget, HAPPY THANKSGIVING to you and all our friends at HTN!

[EastCoast]

I got butchered by a former recommended Dr. on this site. Robert blamed me and told me I made a bad judement call. Until you are butchered you will never know the pain, embaressment, and shame. I believe he has good intentions but is too naive in certain areas. He has a little too much to say. He did not even pay for his own HT.

 

I spent my whole 401k pension on repair work.

[Robert_]

Eastcoast,

 

Thank you again for the kind words. I remember the post you are talking about. Unfortunately, it was in the "Win a Free Hair Transplant" forum and was your bid into the contest. I only today deleted all past essays from entrants that did not contact me to roll their essays forward. How convenient that you pick the time that I deleted that thread to say that I blamed you for an unfortunate procedure?

 

First, you went on record as saying that this forum owed you a free hair transplant because one of its past recommended physicians (that was removed for sub-par work) performed a less-than-aesthetically-pleasing hair transplant procedure on you.

 

Your tone caught my eye and I countered that you should provide provide a little more clarity to your post so we (the forum members) could get a better picture of what happened. It was obvious that you were upset in your post. I merely wanted to make sure that everyone could look at the situation objectively.

 

Let us also not forget that not only was I not employed by this site at the time that the physician in question was recommended, but I was not even a member.

 

Let us also not forget that I was not the forum moderator at the time that I asked you to further clarify your remarks. I was only a concerned posting member.

 

To say that I told you that you made a bad judgement call is false. To say that I am naive is false. To say that I have too much to say is false. It is my job to moderate these forums to the best of my abilities and at my discretion. That involves posting considerably.

 

No, I did not pay for my hair transplant procedure. I was the first recipient of the "Win a Free Hair Transplant" contest. It was well after that fact that I was offered the position as forum moderator because I relentlessly wanted to give back to the forum that had given so much to me. Because I did not personally stroke a check to the benevolent physician that helped me out means that I have not done adequate research into this industry?

 

I realize that your post is rather angry. By all means, lash out at me all you want. I am a big boy and I can take it. I do not expect to be popular all the time. In order for me to properly perform the duties involved with my position I believe that it is impossible for me to popular all the time.

 

However, I will not be called a liar because I do not lie. And what you said that I said is simply not true. It is false through and through. Again, it is rather convenient that you picked today, the day that I deleted that thread to make room for new threads to bring that post up. I would have loved to post it and let other forum members see exactly what I originally said.

 

I do hope that you are not as sour in real life as how you come across in posts on this forum, eastcoast. Again, I do feel for you in that you got a less-than-pleasing result from your procedure. I do hope that you find a solution for it and it gets corrected to your satisfaction. However, I will not take the blame for it and I will not take the blame for saying that about it.

 

-Robert

[Ailene]

As most of you are aware I am Dr. Jerry Cooley's personal assistant. As such I have an active part in all aspects of our hair restoration clinic. I go to the conferences and I deal with both patients and physicians.

 

I know Matt Levitt and several other physicians who work for MHR. They are generally good people. I do not always agree with their methods however. The key here has always been research. When you go in for a consult ask the appropriate questions and find out what the focus of the clinic is. Ask if the pictures that are displayed are the clinics photo's or the surgeon's you are seeing. This is important. There is actually a physician in another state that is using some of Dr. Cooley's photo's! Without permission of coarse.

 

Dr. Cooley and many other physicans did not opt to become a part of these larger clinics. If you ask most doctors are proud of their credentials and will answer questions about their training. When Dr. Cooley first started out he worked for another dermatologist but did transplants on his own. Many of the recommended doc's kindly allowed him (sometimes with staff) to observe and learn. We also welcome visiting doctors.

 

This kind of medicine requires lots of training and practice but is continually evolving. That is why it has gotten to the point that it is natural. Again, you have to research the procedure but you must also research to doctor.

 

We are all sorry for patients who have had a less than satisfactory transplant. That is why most of the recommended doctors offer special conciderations for these people.

 

Thanks to all of the posters, Pat, and Robert for all the time and hard work it takes to make this forum what it is.

 

Ailene

[arfy]

The best hair transplant doctors have spent time building their practices, and have excellent 'word of mouth' advertising.

 

If a doctor does not have experience or good 'word of mouth' then he might need to join up with a big franchise to help with mass-market advertising, in order to get new patients in the door. These franchises spend tens of millions of dollars on mass marketing to try to drum up new patients. In return, the franchise takes a cut of each doctor's action. The higher prices are then passed on to the consumer.

 

Salesmen at these franchise clinics tend to have quotas to meet, either officially or unofficially. If a salesman doesn't sell a certain amount of surgeries he will probably be out of a job. That leads to salesmen exaggerating the benefits, minimizing the potential risks or down sides, selling the procedure to bad candidates, 'lowballing' the number of grafts required in order to get the patient started with the first of several hair transplants, etc.

 

Lets recap: Inexperienced surgeons or surgeons who do not have enough good 'word of mouth' to survive outside of a big franchise.

 

Higher costs for patients because the franchise takes a cut, to pay for mass marketing.

 

Salesmen who distort the facts or use pressure or other tactics in order to meet real or unspoken sales quotas.

 

Sound good?

 

The idea that doctors learn the (surgical) ropes at these clinics, and will later go on to practice better techniques on their own, is missing half of the problem here:

 

At what point will these 'ex-franchise' doctors suddenly develop a sense of ethics?????

 

In my opinion these big franchises are the scourge of the industry, although there are certainly PLENTY of lousy "solo" HT doctors out there, as well!

[gillenator]

I think Dr. Sharon Keene was formerly with MHR for a very short time. I heard she is very ethical but never had any contact with her. I also know of Dr. Grant Koher in North Carolina who left MHR and heard of some violations he had in Pennsylvania and elsewhere. I tried to contact him to discuss these issues but he never returned my many messages so I gave up trying to communicate with him. I really do not know the specifics but I heard that they are of public record.

 

I do agree with 99.99% of what Arfy stated and have posted similar caution to patients. There are many long-time ethical independents to chose from so why take the risk. In most cases they are cheaper in graft prices than the mills so it's a no brainer.

[gillenator]

Ailene,

 

One thing I have learned in life and at times the hard way, is the fact that some people try to propogate themselves as "good" people.

 

The lesson I have learned is to pay "far more" attention to what people do or do not do, not necessarily to what they say.

 

Possibly you have been following the Scott Peterson double-murder case in Modesto, California. Right now the penalty phase of the case is being decided and there have been countless defense witnesses giving character testimony on behalf of this convicted monster. The prosecution only presented four witnesses. Why? Because Scott Peterson was convicted for what he in fact did by his own free election, by his own actions, not for what folks thought of his propogated and deceiptful character.

 

Not trying to defame anyone, but it is rather interesting to compare what people do in contrast to what they say. Those BIG smiles and charm only make me suspect.

[Old Baldy]

I hate to say it guys, but if it weren't for the franchises, HT's would be about as common as finding an alchemist that could really make gold out of lead.

[damo]

Guys im from Australia and did months of research before i decided on my surgeon.I choose Dr Martnick she is a excellent surgeon with outstanding results.Please email me to look at before and after pics from 6 months ago.

 

damo666@westnet.com.au

[EastCoast]

Kez,

 

When a good Surgeon stays with an unethical hair mill he choses to condone it. It is wrong and the surgeon has poor ethics and character. He is an accomplice.

 

The Doctor is not desperate for a job. He is not a hard luck case. He knows he is operating on someone under false pretenses, lies, and manipulation. It not like he is in the mob where he can't get out. They see very easy money; most run on greed.

[EastCoast]

Kez,

 

When a good Surgeon stays with an unethical hair mill he choses to condone it. It is wrong and the surgeon has poor ethics. He is an accomplice.

 

The Doctor is not desperate for a job. He is not a hard luck case. He knows he is operating on someone under false pretenses, lies, and manipulation. It not like he is in the mob where he can't get out. They see very easy money; most run on greed.