The IMPORTANCE of accurate representation

[Mickey85]

Every clinic recommended on here should be required to present at least monthly and a standard approach should be used I agree. I am always amazed at how many clinics post just a few details and then a few random pics. Why not take the time to put a nice standard presentation together?Personally, I like the way the Shapiro brothers do their documentation. Realistic consistent photos and a lot of patient/procedure detail in a standard way. Although they should throw in a video as well.

 

While I agree in photo and video accuracy, I think what some are advocating for is overkill. We don't need to see a million angles, wet post op results, parting the hair in a million places., etc This is essentially making your result look like worst case scenario which is unrealistic in the other direction as this is not how your hair is seen in most cases in every day life. Good solid video and pics should be posted that show the hair not in the most favorable way but also not in the harshest either. A happy medium is required IMO

 

Whilst we do not need all those things, they would certainly be beneficial in portraying a more honest result. If a clinic really has nothing to hide they would have no problem doing these things. It is not to make the hair look its worst, it is to remove any discrepancies that make the hair look flattering ie favorable hairlines which we see all the time or weak spots in the recipient that may be hidden via angles of styling. Just my opinion anyway.

[chrisdav]

Very important topic this is - there is no valid argument for not doing it.

[JoeTillman]

Because I do not simply rely on clinic-posted results Joe. I search the foreign forums and inspect the results and progress posted by patients themselves. I find patients to be much more honest about their outcome compared to clinics. Clinics often pick the best photos, the most favorable angles, the best lighting and the most favorable hairstyles. I'm always more skeptical of clinic photos. I don't think any clinic should use flash, favorable angles, tricky lighting, flattering hairstyles etc but I know this is asking for alot in this industry.

 

Please do put something together that can show us how to detect whether or not flash is used. That would be very beneficial to everyone.

 

Mickey85,

 

I get your point but I know the foreign forums quite well. I've taken part in some of them for the past ten years or so. In reality they are no different than this forum. The clinics that post here will use the same blown out flash images on the foreign forums. The patients themselves will use bad photos more than clinics will and many times it is the patient photos that a clinic will use when sharing results.

 

Have you ever noticed the patient photo that looks like he's in a dark room but his head or hair is bright as if out in the sun? This is a common theme among patient photos in that they are usually worse than clinic photos. Iphones, Galaxies, etc. are great for candid shots but everyone has the flash turned on when taking hair shots. I won't even start on the issue of focus and clarity;) These aren't selfies for Facebook, people! I can't tell you how many hundreds (thousands?) of emails I've sent out to patients over the years asking for better photos when trying to get an assessment completed. If I can't see it, no one else is likely to either, lol! Sometimes it's like pulling teeth:D

 

Patients that post their own results in photos have just as much responsibility as those from clinics especially when everyone tells newbies to trust photos by patients more than those by clinics.

 

I'll put something together to help identify flash photos when I have a chance. I'm glad to see this topic getting some traction. Thanks everyone for your input.

[JoeTillman]

And a word about the lighting situation at Rahal. One of the things that I like about Dr. Rahal is that he "gets it". When I arrived at the clinic I was pleasantly surprised to find a dedicated photo/video room. I couldn't wipe the smile off of my face when I saw it:) The facility itself is brand new and Dr. Rahal wanted to have a proper environment for documenting our results. Rahal is one of the few elite clinics in the world that has standardized on no flash photos and hopefully, with the support of everyone reading this, more will follow suit.

[gillenator]

I am all for representing results in the truest form possible whether submitted by the clinic or the individual patient.

 

If there is a wrong motive behind the submission or presentation, meaning, there is a willful intent to misrepresent a result to look better than it does under a real life setting, then I have a problem with that.

 

To be honest, I always thought that flash photography was supposed to produce the truest representation of the subject. I am not an expert in this area by any means and no doubt why I am not involved in presenting any photos. Just not a tech whiz, and I don't believe that a majority of the reputable clinics possess that level of technical expertise either.

 

Any of us hair junkies or those of us who worked inside the clinic long term know what to look for such as inappropriate graft selection, improper angulation, etc, etc. I can still spot most HT work from a mile away, but the average person does not. But I think the point that Joe is making is when clinics or anyone for that matter present their work and "intentionally manipulate" the photography to present an image that is not the most accurate representation of their work.

 

I also just want to add that we are judged by normal every day people and our HT work is seen by others under a normal light environment. I say "normal environment" because any of us interact with others under the same similar circumstances when we are seen face-to-face, day-to-day. And it usually calls for situations when light is not at its ultimate level, meaning indoors.

 

Personally, my hair loss is more obvious when I am out in bright lighting on a bright sunny day. But indoors or when the day wears on, my hair looks fuller than it really is by density count. That's fine with me...

 

We also have to remember that HT surgery is achieving an illusion of coverage as natural and artistic as possibly can without of course attaining the level of density that we all once had before MPB kicked in.

 

I know that is not the point of Joe's thread here, again it is the motive behind the clinic. Most of the photos that are manipulated however are obvious to see IMHO. And we are only going to see the clinic's best work for the obvious reasons.

 

I rarely post in this forum section of this community because frankly I don't have the time and do not work in this field full time.

 

But I just received a couple of emails from several guys who pointed out this thread to me because apparently my name was brought up. That's fine and was glad to see that someone like Joe is touching on an issue that does need to be addressed within the industry.

 

What concerned me was that one of these guys sent me multiple photos of his work that he had done in multiple sessions. He was all freaked out asking me if I thought his hair looked ok and if I thought other people would know he had work done, and he wrote quite a long email of concern.

 

You see, he is getting married this Spring and of course there will be lots of wedding photos and now he is all freaked out that his hair won't look right if the photographer uses flash photography, etc, etc. And he referred to this thread that flash photography will ruin his wedding pics. That was not the intention of this thread.

 

So I hope we all see the point and issue that I believe Joe is bringing up. Again, I just want to assure all of us that I believe his point is the "motive" in manipulating patient photos for the wrong reasons which is something that has been around since the industry went online. And there is still clinics stealing photos from other clinics all of which is repulsive.

 

Joe, if you can possibly attend one of the upcoming ISHRS conferences and request to potentially hold a work shop in photography, then that would also address this issue to many of the docs and clinics in a learning environment.

 

Just a thought...

[pkipling]

Wow. This is all very interesting to me. Being relatively new to the boards and the entire HT world, I had no idea the amount of details/specifics that go into taking the photos. Fortunately, it appears that Dr. Mohebi didn't use flash in the photos he took of me at his office (based on how the photos look and also on me having no recollection of a flash ever going off). I'm going to research now how to best take my own personal photos so that they provide the best representation of my results/progress - and I assume I can find quite a bit about the subject by using you as a resource, Joe. I've just recently hit the 3 month mark, so it's perfect timing to learn how to start properly documenting my results.

 

Ultimately, I am in complete agreement that we stand together as a community to get this done right across the board. Thanks for spearheading this.

 

PK

[lorenzo]

pkipling your pictures look very clear and honest. Although your case is quite straight forward and considered an easy case for most doctors. Looking at your hairloss, your donor, your donor density, you were a great candidate for a hair transplant. Unfortunately most patients are not lucky like you therefore the bigger the transformation the better and more accurate the pictures should be. This way somebody that is a NW6 can have a realistic idea of what can be achieved with a hair transplant. That is why this thread is important.

Keep us posted on your results. Happy growing!

[pkipling]

pkipling your pictures look very clear and honest. Although your case is quite straight forward and considered an easy case for most doctors. Looking at your hairloss, your donor, your donor density, you were a great candidate for a hair transplant. Unfortunately most patients are not lucky like you therefore the bigger the transformation the better and more accurate the pictures should be. This way somebody that is a NW6 can have a realistic idea of what can be achieved with a hair transplant. That is why this thread is important.

Keep us posted on your results. Happy growing!

 

Thanks Lorenzo. I'm definitely looking forward to the next several months and watching my hairline start to change. I'm also glad to know about the importance of the photos, especially when dealing with higher NW levels. I didn't realize how easy it would be for people to manipulate the photos (sometimes inadvertently) with something as simple as a flash.

 

I swear, the more I learn about this industry and hair transplants in general, the more fascinated I become.

[ontop]

I guess itss all tricks of the trade that the average john doe don't know anything about.

 

Great info guys that a lot of people would be thankful for when window shopping so to speak.