Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 My "extremity" is directly related to what I perceive to be NotJust's passive (and not so passive) assailing of those physicians who are taking part in the greater scheme of the HT and FUE landscape, and doing so in a not just ethical, but productive manner. It is particularly ironic and distressing to me to see one of these people, Dr. Feller, who has worked to hard on advancing the very cause of FUE in so many ways to benefit the patient be targeted. I absolutely agree with you, Bill, otherwise! And it is your very attitude and stance that I think to be most beneficial and fair. Of course, I want and would love for the price of FUE to be as low as possible and have the quality move upwards in tandem. And I think the price of Dr. Feller's FUE should absolutely be taken into consideration by myself and any other patient -- Dr. Feller himelf accepts this responsibility and I don't think he would shy away from this. FUE is a relatively new, novel, dynamic procedure; as such, the conjoined economics associated with it is not static (when is it ever in a truly functional, thriving economy). SMG's excellent adoption of FUE and at such a competitive price is proof beyond belief of this. And not just that, but it is positive evidence that the trend of quality and competition is on the rise, and in sync the price is becoming more competitive and affordable for patients everywhere. As well, were Dr. Feller (and others) not to charge ~10/g, SMG would have *less*...*less*...incentive to price *their* FUE at the competitive, lower price that they have. And the same goes for any other clinic who practices FUE or is looking to adopt it. This is a functional economy; this a functional landscape of FUE and HTs, and this is why I feel "costs for FUE....are....reasonable". We have the choice of both price and physician, and we have the excellence -- and all three variables are positively trending. My point about Dr. Feller not charing 11/g and thus being a saint is obviously a tongue-in-cheek, but nonetheless pointed commentary that there *shouldn't* be such emotion and excessive subjectivity imbued into this debate. ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Ron J Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 Originally posted by TC17:This topic is devolving into nothing more than personal attacks... What everyone must realize... Ok, where are all of the personal attacks apart from notjustyet saying he wants to "floor me" if he sees me in person? TC, this isn't a "personal attack" but, you always swoop in and act as though your the moderator, and even worse yet, you take the tone of some imperious school teacher before young students. "what everyone must realize" lol... Delicately helping those fragile souls who suffer from hair loss, w/motherly nourishment & care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Ron J Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 Originally posted by TC17: Last, notjustyet, like all members, has the right to voice his opinion on matters that call for an opinion response. To say that he has no right to say that a doctor should charge less for his services is nonsensical . LOL whattttt!?!?!?!? where did ANYONE say he has no right to voice his opinion? I guess your *playing* lawyer and mod again, eh? Parsing words and equivocating, changing the actual substance of the argument. In fact, I explicitly said the precise opposite of this: "... Essentially, that's precisely the difference between your ideology and mine: I don't dictate, demand, and FORCE that my beliefs be put into practice by other people, I merely STATE mine in opposition; and in my world view I have room for you to have an opposing world view ". I said this in response to notjustyet saying he wished he could "floor me". TC, you just can't help yourself play this victim game for those who are assaulting others, and at one and the same time act as though your some wise scholar tending to your herd playing moderator on the forum. Two other people chimed in on the last thread you did this on, because it was just as repulsing to them, yet you never replied to the thread and are yet doing it again... Give! It! A! Rest! PS my post on this thread wasn't edited because I never personally attacked anyone. Delicately helping those fragile souls who suffer from hair loss, w/motherly nourishment & care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member bash77 Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 I paid $6 per graft with SMG and I considered that reasonable! The healing process was notably quick (superior to strip) so I was ultimately prepared to pay the extra bucks. By the way, my grafts are still there after 4 week. Long may that continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member bash77 Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 Cheers Spex - i'll keep you all posted on developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TC17 Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ron J, I chose not to respond to you on the last topic because it's not worth it to me. It is clear that your only point in being a member of this forum is to antagonize other members. Like the last topic, I will not take your bait. If you ever develop the intellectual capacity to make a sound point, I will respond accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member the B spot Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 This is the reason I have not even bothered to discuss this topic....because everyone is still trying to score individual points against each other. Ron...TC is not the enemy..TC...Ron is not the enemy, bad doctors, shills, and the uneducated making poor decisions are the enemy. You do what you feel you must, but from one bald brother to another, it is starting to feel ultra personal. I love the passion and willingness to mix it up...in fact you and TC remind me of Bill, myself and several others about 4 years ago You guys will make better allies and achieve more "good" than as enemies. Notjustyet....Dr. Feller can charge 50.00 a graft...if someone educates themselves, looks at the quality of his work, looks at the quality of other clinics, and decides as a consumer that 50.00 a graft represents a satisfactory cost to value ratio, then so be it. Expressing your opinion that you personally feel 10.00 a graft is high, is 100% fine. Stating that Dr. Feller is "wrong" or casting him as some profiteering goon is uncalled for. Dr. Feller and I disagree on some things, but the man is transparent, up front and took the time to explain the reasons for his pricing. Fair enough in my book, and certainly deserving of respect. On the topic of cost. FUE is expensive, it takes time to learn. It costs a lot of money to learn FUE because to do it right, your doing free work, reduced rate work, and paying overhead such as staff, etc... that is just business. To truly make FUE viable, you have to offer large enough session sizes to be impactful, without over-harvesting the donor, or speeding up the process to the point where waste occurs. Thus the balancing point. FUE 5.00 to 10.00 seems like a fair price range...that puts the average at 7.50..which if many of you recall I said I spend many months in 2007 polling those I came in contact with who said they felt 6-7dollars a graft was very fair, due to the benefit the patient sought and the difficulty the doctor experienced achieving this. Additionally, using Dr. Feller as an example, he has offered the "lunchtime" FUE session at a lower cost, in addition to several patients reporting Dr. Feller doing more grafts than the patient paid for, without charging them. Others have reported Dr. Feller working with their budget, as most clinics do. I use Dr. Feller as an example, only because of the unfair negative criticisms expressed toward his FUE costs. Others have mentioned SMG due to our current pricing schedule, which, while not changing in the immediate future, is going to change to a certain degree..it has to, I previously mentioned that the economics of retaining a large staff, and 3 fully functional O.R.'s would force the change at some point. The issue at SMG is that we are not actively seeking to do more than 1000 grafts per day...Dr. Ron feels that number allows us to do impactful work, then the patient can come in the next day for additional grafts for refinement. He does not intend for that to change. In that vein, we are spending 2 and 3 days on our patients to ensure growth and refined end results. So in this case, what do people believe is a fair cost for FUE? Currently we are 6.00 per graft with a 500.00 travel discount. Would a pricing schedule like strip costs be better? Say, 8.00 per graft for the 1st 1000 grafts, then 5.00 per graft thereafter? That would make our 2000 graft session 12,500. Right now it is 11,500. It takes us 3 days to do this. We expect to eventually do this in 2 days. A 2000 graft strip session that takes ONE day is 9000.00, for frame of reference. Taking the information I have given, what is a reasonable cost for FUE? What would you as the patient, expect to pay for a top clinic, with an ethical doctor and highly experienced/trained staff, educating you, and properly designing a treatment plan that encompasses your short and long-term goals? Take Care, Jason Go Cubs! 6721 transplanted grafts 13,906 hairs Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member HairHope Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 I LOVE SMG, and that would be my first choice based on quality and price at this point in time... and NO, I am not a patient of theirs, just a closer observer of their actions and words. Thanks B-Spot for your candid post. Dec. 2004 - 1938 Grafts via Strip Feb. 2009 - 1002 Grafts via FUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Jason, I commend you for your well though out and logical post...and I agree. RonJ I don't feel that TC17 was playing the moderator...only making observations from what he saw written in this thread, just like you. Many of the personal insults have already been removed or edited out of otherwise sound posts, hence why you can't find them. Honestly, your last couple of posts were overly antagonistic especially considering TC17 was just pointing out his observations and expressing his opinion. In my opinion, you and TC17 are both good guys with a heart to help hair loss sufferers. I only hope you two will join forces to educate and support balding men and women and fight against sub-par work, unethical physicians, and blatant shills. Now... What does everyone think...should I leave this topic open for discussion or close it? It seems like it's become a bit more of a personal sparring match than anything else. What do you guys think? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member HairHope Posted October 7, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 7, 2009 Bill, it appears that those with an axe to grind or trying to show they are smarter than everyone else show up in every thread, thus I see no reason to lock this one! Dec. 2004 - 1938 Grafts via Strip Feb. 2009 - 1002 Grafts via FUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted October 8, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 8, 2009 Lock the thread lest' Hope throws another hissy fit over not getting the recognition he so (thinks he) deserves! Or will this simply happen in any thread; perhaps Hope can answer and explain some, since he seems to have such a righteous read on the quality of posters on this site, and can make sweeping statements as to the quality and effectiveness of peoples' words in every thread including future ones...? Other than a hissy-fit rearing its ugly head (yet again), I could see leaving the thread open in case another "Bspot" might post and enrich things; but my personal read is that everyone has had their fill so locking it and stemming any potential acrimony seems perfectly reasonable, too. ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Ron J Posted October 8, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 8, 2009 Originally posted by TC17:Ron J, If you ever develop the intellectual capacity to make a sound point... Personally attacking me all the while parading yourself up like some wise sage and telling others not to make attacks; typical TC. This coming from someone who routinely props up third world hacks while knocking THE best in the business and Coalition docs, some 'sound points' you've made pal. Bill, I think you should lock it so TC - or anyone else- can't continue personal attacks while pompously lecturing us on morality. Delicately helping those fragile souls who suffer from hair loss, w/motherly nourishment & care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Guys, Since personal assailments persist, I agree with the majority of the members that it's time to lock this thread and move on. Best Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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