question for joetronic (pics inside)

[tacolinowest]

hey all,, this question isnt only for joe, but he gives the best answers and in my opinion is the best at looking at pics and can really see whats going on,, so im getting my procedure done with dr feller in 3 weeks and wanted to post some pics of my hair combed back and damp, keep that in mind that my hair is damp,, wanted to get everyones opinion on my donor and all that good stuff thanks everyone

[tacolinowest]

also please keep in mind these were under very harsh lighting, basically a spot light behind the camera

[KO]

This could just be the dampness, but your donor looks questionable.

[tacolinowest]

iv been told by 2 docs that i dont have alot of donor,, about 5k available give or take

[Jotronic]

Hi TW,

 

Thank you for your comments! Did you watch my "how to" video? You took these shots just right. Well done. I would be inclined to agree that your donor zone appears to have a diffused nature to it regardless of the dampness. Your hair also appears to be fine with a strong curl. This can aid in coverage once your grafts grow out.

 

If you have more questions let me know.

[tacolinowest]

Thanks for the response joe, and yes I did watch the video very informative , do you guys think I have alopicia, also wat kind of result do you think I will get, I'm having 2000 grafts taken in 3 weeks pretty excited , I think the curl is a good thing and my laxity is very good, been doin excersize for 2 months now, wat Norwood would you guys classify me as?

[tacolinowest]

Please everyone chime in

[1978matt]

Emerging Norwood 6 maybe? I always get these wrong...

 

2000 grafts sounds about right. You want to get a hairline back without going nuts and blowing your donor supply in one hit.

[tacolinowest]

that is exactlly what they told me, early norwood 6, what kinda damage do you think i coulkd do with only 5k grafts, prob enuf to do the front and mid only right

[Mickey85]

I would be very apprehensive about a procedure champ... Your donor area can spell three problems:

 

1) Scar visibility might be high and could increase if you do have diffuse thinning in the donor.

2) The transplanted hairs may miniaturize and die out given they are being taken from a zone that could be diffuse thinning...

3) Notice the natural curl and wave in your donor? After you undergo a strip procedure, the natural wave will be eradicated.

 

I really urge you to reconsider as it could spell big problems later.... Even a FUE procedure would not be optimal because they too might die off if you really do have a diffuse thinning donor...

Edited April 8, 2013 by Mickey85

[tacolinowest]

micky, do you think its possible that the donor has finished diffusing? because its been this way forever, since i was very very young, also the scar situation,, very good chance it will be visible so i looked into SMP to hide it,, actually pretty simple thing,, and can you elaborate a little on the last thing you said about the hair becoming eradicated

[Mickey85]

I personally can't say whether the donor has finished diffusing. If it has been that way forever then maybe it is not diffusing and it might stay that way for good. I'm not so sure you want to risk it but that is up to your discretion. If it is actually diffusing then the future outcome will be devastating for both the recipient and donor.

 

If you are looking at SMP to camouflage the scar, that is also up to you and can remedy the situation to an extent. Cutting your hair short will be hindered even with SMP as it does not replicate the effect of hair. I personally would avoid the linear scar altogether if I knew it will be visible, even if remedied via SMP...

 

In regards to the natural wave being eradicated; if you shaved someone's donor area(with no surgery) you will notice the grafts have a smooth transition in direction, angle etc. There may be a wave or a change in direction but it is gradual. You won't find a downward facing graft abruptly meeting a right angle graft for example(exaggerated). Given that FUT removes a centimeter of scalp(and hair) and closes it, the smooth transition is obliterated and you may find the direction and angle to change rather drastically as well as the coarser, multi-hair grafts in the middle of the donor abruptly meeting the finer single hair grafts at the bottom of the donor. I have a picture of this in my FUE pros/cons thread in my signature. Given your hair is naturally wavy, the cosmetic impact will be more evident then on someone with straight and fine donor hair...

[Jotronic]

TCW,

 

What Mickey is talking about with the natural wave being "eradicated" is a bit of a stretch. Hair grows with a natural flow all around the scalp. When you have a strip this flow is interrupted and you can have more abrupt changes in direction of the hairs above and below the incision line. I personally do not believe it is a big issue and it is more visible when shaved than when grown out. I have personally had about 6cm or more scalp removed (far more than you will ever have) and there is no "eradication" of the direction of my hair.

[Mickey85]

TCW,

 

What Mickey is talking about with the natural wave being "eradicated" is a bit of a stretch. Hair grows with a natural flow all around the scalp. When you have a strip this flow is interrupted and you can have more abrupt changes in direction of the hairs above and below the incision line. I personally do not believe it is a big issue and it is more visible when shaved than when grown out. I have personally had about 6cm or more scalp removed (far more than you will ever have) and there is no "eradication" of the direction of my hair.

 

With all due respect Joe, eradicated might be a strong word, but it is not untrue. Does FUT not put an end to(basic definition of eradicate) the natural flow, direction and angle of hair growth? Does FUT not change the natural hairshaft diameter/groupings gradation? You call it a 'stretch' to say these things, but either it does change those factors or it doesn't. Substitute any word you want for eradicate. Alter, change, destroy, obliterate etc. Either it does or it doesn't. General consensus is that FUT does change those factors.

 

Just because you do not find it a big issue does not mean that Tacolino won't find it a big issue. There is no way you can know whether or not he himself will find it a big issue or not.

[1978matt]

that is exactlly what they told me, early norwood 6, what kinda damage do you think i coulkd do with only 5k grafts, prob enuf to do the front and mid only right

 

 

Looks like I'm getting the hang of it..

 

Probably half the top of your head with 5k grafts.

 

With regards the donor concerns, I'd discuss with Dr Feller/Spex.

[NoTakeBacks]

Seconding Matt. I'd talk it out with Spex or Dr. F and express your concerns/the forums comments. You're in good hands though, and I doubt Feller would devise anything too aggressive anyway. Reestablishing your hairline will help frame it off a lot! But yeah, with your donor area, wearing it short might not be an option. All a balancing act my friend.

[Jotronic]

With all due respect Joe, eradicated might be a strong word, but it is not untrue. Does FUT not put an end to(basic definition of eradicate) the natural flow, direction and angle of hair growth? Does FUT not change the natural hairshaft diameter/groupings gradation? You call it a 'stretch' to say these things, but either it does change those factors or it doesn't. Substitute any word you want for eradicate. Alter, change, destroy, obliterate etc. Either it does or it doesn't. General consensus is that FUT does change those factors.

 

Just because you do not find it a big issue does not mean that Tacolino won't find it a big issue. There is no way you can know whether or not he himself will find it a big issue or not.

 

Now Mickey, no where did I disagree with you so you don't have to try and debate me on this. You said eradicate in this thread but in another you said "obliterate" which is an even stronger word. I just don't care for the dramatics when talking about such things because I don't think they are necessary. Regarding the severity of the issue and whether or not it is a big deal, we don't exactly have patients coming back telling us that they can't style their hair anymore because the direction of growth changed too dramatically in the back of their scalp. In fact, I've never heard any one complain of this so yes, I can say that I doubt TCW would find it to be an issue either.

 

And btw, I know where you got that photo that illustrates your point and I know which doctor it came from and why he used it in his presentation. The hair on the bottom is on the nape and it is a rare case because nape hair usually never takes on such a dramatic change in direction. Here is the same patient before he is shaved down for the pic you used on another thread. In fact, I'll share your pic here too.

 

This looks pretty bad because the change in hair direction is really abrupt.

 

But when we see what he looked like before his hair was shaven down the picture changes...

 

His nape hair ALREADY grows in crazy directions. It's as if he has a double whorl pattern in the nape of his neck. Removing one centimeter of tissue does not do this to such an extent. Besides, a proper strip is not taken from so close to the nape to begin with. So to be fair, this guy didn't have a problem with the change in direction from strip because his hair already had a strong change in direction. That is why the doctor that used these photos presented this to make his point. It is because it is easy to make the audience think that strip caused the issue when in fact mother nature did.

[Mickey85]

Joe again with respect, you say you aren't trying to debate me but you are arguing semantics here. I have used the word obliterate, so does Umar. Does that make us wrong? Dont tell me you have not taken a similar approach when you use the term 'moth eaten' in regards to fue thinned donors.

 

You say you know why the doc used that photo in his presentation which is to make fue look good and fut look bad, i do agree with you on that part. However you have also posted similar photos of fue patients who had bad work done in the past that was not up to par with the standards seen by the elite fue surgeons or was by good surgeons but the result was unsatisfactory. Every clinic uses examples that demonstrate the flaws in the alternate technique.

 

You say you dont care for dramatics but you have 'View the greatest hair transplant videos of all time" in your signature. I agree those videos are amazing but that IS dramatic.

 

You say 'i doubt TCW would find it an issue either' but you cannot say without a doubt. Sorry, that doesnt cut it for me. I feel he has the right yo be informed and make his own decision.

 

I would be happy to post a photo that isn't from the doctor in Atlanta that demonstrates a large change in direction after fut. It is not an isolated event. In fact i will once i have access to my laptop.

 

You say none of your patients have mentioned not being able to style their hair etc due to the change in direction, but dont patients deserve to know about all the factors involved? I was the only one in this thread that mentioned that factor and the problems with diffused thinning on scar visibility and transplanted recipient loss for tacolino. If i know this, then you definitely know this Joe. I like you Joe, but sometimes when important factors are omitted i have to become vocal.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Mickey85

[Jotronic]

Mickey,

 

What this doctor did was say that strip surgery caused the severe change in hair direction seen in this exact photo. This doctor made a bold faced lie. What I do is mainly show results and answer questions and you rarely find me talking negatively about FUE unless asked and I certainly don't have to make up lies to make a point.

 

With regards to the dramatics, the videos we show are the best in the world. Period. Some may call this a dramatic statement but I don't know of anyone that would counter this claim and if anyone cares to then I'd be happy to compare. No one shows HD video of their results like we do and they certainly don't comb through like we do.

 

I don't want to turn this into yet another FUE vs. FUT debate. This is TCW's thread and we have both given him valuable information to digest. That is never a bad thing.

[Mickey85]

Mickey,

 

What this doctor did was say that strip surgery caused the severe change in hair direction seen in this exact photo. This doctor made a bold faced lie. What I do is mainly show results and answer questions and you rarely find me talking negatively about FUE unless asked and I certainly don't have to make up lies to make a point.

 

With regards to the dramatics, the videos we show are the best in the world. Period. Some may call this a dramatic statement but I don't know of anyone that would counter this claim and if anyone cares to then I'd be happy to compare. No one shows HD video of their results like we do and they certainly don't comb through like we do.

 

I don't want to turn this into yet another FUE vs. FUT debate. This is TCW's thread and we have both given him valuable information to digest. That is never a bad thing.

 

You are correct in what you are saying about thay doctor, i have been vocal about his penchent for outlandish claims like "less then 2% transection". Im a fue advocate and even i dont like when surgeons like him and Bhatti claim outrageous things to garner more patients.

 

I dont disagree, the videos are amazing. Just the 'of all time' part does sound dramatic. I dont particularly have a problem woth that line i just it as a defence to my 'obliterated' line.

 

Always a pleasant experience conversing with you Joe. Even though we are on opposite sides of the fence in opinion, you are a class act.

[Jotronic]

Cheers! And to you as well. Now it's time to hit the gym. G'night!

[socates123]

Hope all goes well for you buddy..

[tacolinowest]

thanks socates,, i wish i could make a phone call to myself in the future and ask him if this is the right move, such a gamble

[socates123]

I would advise you to see the doctor in person and talk about it. No point to make a phone call.

[tacolinowest]

Lol no I mean call a 40 yr old me and ask him if this is right