When do we start to know more about SMP?

[azazelgs]

I know it's a bit controversial topic but I also know that many of the forum members are very interested and curious about this topic.

 

I look over and over to forums not only this one but others and I can't seem to find any valuable info about it. Nearly all info are biased. I am really interested in this and I know some of the people around here are completely against it. One day I look at the galleries of the companies that does this and say "don't be stupid its just a painting on your head" but one day I look and say "it looks perfect".

 

If I could find someone who documents the process of SMP with an unbiased and fair judgement like people here do with their ht's I'll be more than happy. I know Time To Do Something has booked an appointment with GLI and I'm very hopeful that he'll write the whole procedure here. But is there no one else around who can give a info about this? Is there anyone who had seen this procedure seen it person ? I mean any info would be very good.

[cargo65]

The best thing to do is book a consultation with the clinic you're considering (preferably a few different ones). You should ask to have someone that has had the actual procedure done to be present for you to examine. With most of these clinics, the clinician is usually someone who has had the procedure done on themselves (at least it typically is with HIS hair clinic and GLI I believe).

 

I see a lot of ignorant bias as well on the boards. I had one person try to persuade me arguing from silence "nobody knows what it will look like five years from now...it may just be a blob." They speak from ignorance in thinking that it's the same tattoo inks that you would put in your arms or that the ink is even placed at the same depth in the dermis as a normal tattoo, which it isn't. If they find that logic reasonable, what do we know about someone who has been on finasteride for 20 years...30 years?

 

Also, keep in mind that it's all subjective. What you may find asthetically pleasing, someone else may think is ugly. It doesn't matter, however it makes you feel is what is paramount. Seriously, we've all seen bad hair transplant jobs that the patient himself may be perfectly content with. Same rationale.

 

As an aside, one of the creators of HIS hair clinic from the UK (I believe his name is Ian) has had his head "tatooed" for close to five years. His results look fantastic.

[azazelgs]

Cargo65,

 

Thank you for the reply. However, I'm living very far away from all the clinics that offer SMP. That's why I'm asking in this forums that is there anyone who are as much interested as I am and/or that have done the procedure and tell about it with an unbiased judgement.

[cargo65]

Cargo65,

 

Thank you for the reply. However, I'm living very far away from all the clinics that offer SMP. That's why I'm asking in this forums that is there anyone who are as much interested as I am and/or that have done the procedure and tell about it with an unbiased judgement.

 

 

azazelgs, I understand what you're asking now.

 

Yes, I'm very interested in the procedure myself and have researched for about a year and a half now. I was scheduled to have a consult with a clinician from HIS in Los Angeles. I ended up cancelling the appointment but plan to reschedule when the time permits. I've consulted with NHI and they forwarded me a patient contact who had the procedure done. I talked to him and requested photos that I'm still waiting to receive/hear back from.

 

I'm looking at SMP as a legitimate alternative for me down the road. Some people find it off-putting that you have to shave your head the rest of your life if you get it. I don't find that any less restrictive than having to always have your hair grown out to a certain length if you have a strip (FUT) procedure done to hide your scar.

 

For me, I would much rather just shave my head than be a guy with a Norwood 6-7 with a few thousand whispy transplanted hair. Some are okay with that, I'm not. It's personal preference; I had my head shaved for most of my youth and early twenties (even before I realized I was balding), so the idea of shaving my head again isn't daunting for me as it is others.

[azazelgs]

Cargo,

 

Please inform us about the consult and the photos!

 

I know there are many people who are interested in SMP as much as we do and I really like to get some unbiased and "sceptial" info about someone who is interested! Also , I totally agree with the shaving.

[TakingThePlunge]

If I could find someone who documents the process of SMP with an unbiased and fair judgement like people here do with their ht's I'll be more than happy.

 

Agreed. This is what is currently lacking. As the procedure grows in popularity and as more time passes, I hope we will see more members documenting their experiences. What we really need to know is what does this look like years down the line.

[Blake Bloxham]

I'm eager to see more video evidence. Frankly, I think some of the images of the SMP work look amazing, but usually some of the more skeptical posters follow up the results with ominous warnings about "seeing it in person."

 

I think video examples would help demonstrate what the results look like in person, and I'm excited to see more of these "before and after" videos in the future.

 

Altogether, I'm excited about what SMP has to offer!

[scar5]

They cannot graduate the hairline.

They just draw a line on the head and fill up to that line with dots.

Be warned.

[cargo65]

They cannot graduate the hairline.

They just draw a line on the head and fill up to that line with dots.

Be warned.

 

Lol, that is complete nonsense.

 

They can "fade" in the sides as well as give it a natural looking hairline. A lot of folks that get the procedure like the distinct contrast of the hairline and ask for it that way, while others prefer a more natural gradual blending from the front hairline back. It's totally up to the patient's preference and prerogative.

 

They do not just draw a line and fill in dots.

 

Do yourself a favor and checkout HIS Hair clinic website and patient forum.

 

Edited May 31, 2012 by Future_HT_Doc

[Blake Bloxham]

I've seen (images) some impressive SMP hairline results. However, it requires an appropriate candidate and a natural hairline shape/design (in my opinion).

[scar5]

They do not just draw a line and fill in dots.

 

 

Yes, they do.

 

I like the idea of SMP, and I have tried it and I am jaded a bit. I'm still kinda hoping it would be good and in some ways it is. Scar and barren pluggy zones have improved. But I was completely stupid thinking the front areas would be graduated into the skin.

 

I just don't see them graduating the hairlines. I see good blending with the sides, but not hairline and temple.

 

You can certainly fade the hairline and temple area in a photograph, by having light shine on the contrast area.

 

I don't know why they can't, still. Perhaps the illusion doesn't work if the dots break apart into a looser pattern. Perhaps it is just too hard or inconsistent or expensive. Perhaps dots out on their little lonesome, look unnatural and raise a suspicious eye.

 

And perhaps today, they worked out a way to do it.

 

It's also a color that is a tad blue.

[azazelgs]

Scar,

 

From your posts i know that you have a big concern about the hairlines with SMP. And as i have seen it in person ( i saw in HIS london clinic staff name Damen) and I was dissapointed. It was a clear helmet head. When i talk to him about this he said that he had done the procedure 2-3 years ago and their constuction of hairline has massively improved. In my opinion, HIS is the worst in designing hairlines among other companies.

 

However, i keep telling myself that there must be a way to create better hairlines. I dont know if this is the lazyness of the companies or their lack of artisty. But the results varies a lot. Some are perfect , some are just helmets. What makes that difference? When you ask the companies , they say that it varies from patient to patient or its patiens choice. And i dont get how 2 person which does not have a hairline with nearly the same characteristics can vary that much. Just my 2 cents.

[scar5]

Some are perfect , some are just helmets. .

 

I think I have seen two good ones with completely artificially inked temples and hairlines that looked impressive. I am looking for a gradient of 100% to 0% over say a half to one inch from 'hair' to skin and I am yet to be witness to that, although some of the pics looked promising in a sense they showed a glimpse of what MIGHT be possible. But the more I see of them, the more I am convinced even they were photo illusions. And another thing, I think this degree of gradient is good. I don't really know, cause I've never really seen one. For all I know they may look even more ridiculous. What I do know, is that currently, they look daft, blunt and sharp at the same time, and def not natural. (temples and hairlines) If you are seeing 50% good, 50% bad, then you are seeing a lot better than me.

 

Can I say this too

A lot of my interest in SMP comes from being an HT casualty from a tender age, and trying to make it all a happy ending having spent my entire adult life in the shadow of my next or last HT, and I don't want young guys with a healthy attitude tainted with my cynicism, but also to be wary of the BS being flogged. And needless to say, I am here to help myself, at times for information, at times for support.

 

And in terms of naturalness I am talking about shorter hair SMP jobs, not women with beehives having their crowns inked in.

[azazelgs]

scar,

 

thank you for your reply. Always well informed answers.

 

Could you please share with me the ones that you consider good hairlines??

[trapps99]

I think SMP is in its early stages and needs to be perfected.....the idea is great, and it could really help guys with no alternative,,,,,

I remember back in 1990, i would NEVER think of getting a hair transplant done as all i could think of was the corn rows and unnatural look......everybody remember those days??

Point is the more it generates interest and more fine tuning is done i believe it will be perfected........

[azazelgs]

I think SMP is in its early stages and needs to be perfected.....the idea is great, and it could really help guys with no alternative,,,,,

I remember back in 1990, i would NEVER think of getting a hair transplant done as all i could think of was the corn rows and unnatural look......everybody remember those days??

Point is the more it generates interest and more fine tuning is done i believe it will be perfected........

 

 

If I remember correctly ,HIS is the first in this business started in 2002 and the owner of the clinic had done it at that time approximately.10 years is not a short time but yes I agree that it will process over time. Also , HIS is the worst in hairlines I think.

[cargo65]

HIS is the worst in designing hairlines among other companies.

 

.

 

That's funny because I feel quite the opposite. I've seen the work of three different clinics (HIS, Good Look Ink, and NHI) and HIS is by far and away the best and most consistent in my opinion, especially with hairline work. As an aside, I think NHIs work is pretty disappointing. Folks have to remember, getting good SMP work is no different than getting a good transplant. You have to research and conclude who is the best practioner to perform your perform your procedure; you don't just go to the nearest doctor who does HT surgery would you?

 

There are certain practitioners at HIS I would definitely use to do my work. Conversly, I've seen work done by other HIS clinicians I wouldn't let touch my head.

 

Because you've seen a bad transplant did you totally nix the idea of a HT altogether? Likely not. Same for SMP.

 

F

[azazelgs]

Cargo,

 

Have you seen all 3 of them in person? I just seen HIS work in person and believe me it was not so good.

[cargo65]

Cargo,

 

Have you seen all 3 of them in person? I just seen HIS work in person and believe me it was not so good.

 

What location and who was the practioner?

 

What didn't you like about it?

[azazelgs]

Cargo,

 

It was in London and I'm not sure but his name was Damen and he was running the London clinic, not to confuse him with Damien which is forum administrator.

 

What I don't like was the hairline definately, which was way to well -defined and helmet shaped.

[cargo65]

Cargo,

 

It was in London and I'm not sure but his name was Damen and he was running the London clinic, not to confuse him with Damien which is forum administrator.

 

What I don't like was the hairline definately, which was way to well -defined and helmet shaped.

 

It's sounds like you saw Damien, who is one of the originators of the procedure. He has a very defined contrast and look to his which he obviously prefers.

 

Here's what I don't understand judging by your comments, you seem to think there is a one-size fits all approach by the clinics which couldn't be farther from the truth. At least with HIS Hair they use gradients of color ink to match your natural hair color. Further, a patient typically goes to 3-4 sessions until the ink is matched to ther liking.

 

Have you been on their website? Pictures are pictures just like any hair transplant clinic, but I'm surprised you say the things you've said with the sheer number of patient photos and the unique results of each person. What you don't have is a bunch patients looking like Damien clones.

 

I think if there is a criticism to be made its that they give patients exactly what they want in terms of hairlines. If you're 50 years old but want a straight, low, juvenile hairline, they'll give it to you. But in saying that it doesn't take away from the actual quality of the work they're doing.

 

I should mention they have a forum on their website just like this where patients and prospective patients can ask questions, show results, air grievences, concerns, praise, et cetera.

Edited June 1, 2012 by cargo65

[scar5]

It's sounds like you saw Damien, who is one of the originators of the procedure. He has a very defined contrast and look to his which he obviously prefers.

 

Here's what I don't understand judging by your comments, you seem to think there is a one-size fits all approach by the clinics which couldn't be farther from the truth. At least with HIS Hair they use gradients of color ink to match your natural hair color. Further, a patient typically goes to 3-4 sessions until the ink is matched to ther liking.

 

Have you been on their website? Pictures are pictures just like any hair transplant clinic, but I'm surprised you say the things you've said with the sheer number of patient photos and the unique results of each person. What you don't have is a bunch patients looking like Damien clones.

 

I think if there is a criticism to be made its that they give patients exactly what they want in terms of hairlines. If you're 50 years old but want a straight, low, juvenile hairline, they'll give it to you. But in saying that it doesn't take away from the actual quality of the work they're doing.

 

I should mention they have a forum on their website just like this where patients and prospective patients can ask questions, show results, air grievences, concerns, praise, et cetera.

 

I don't want to tell you how to boil an egg or anything, but I think you should be more critical and think not what is only possible but what is probable.

 

Possible

They use a variety of ink tones in one session. The operator has five ink guns filled with different shades of ink all ready and all loaded with no concern whether they are 1% or 99% used. They use the ink guns like an artist uses his or her palette and brushes, juggling them as his or her inspiration and skill dictate. There are different lights used to gauge progress and your skin to ink tone match. You are judged from a distance, sitting, walking, moving and close up.

 

Sounds idealistic?

Yes, and remember accounting for fading at different tone levels and an unknown patient's skin pathology is anyone's guesswork .

 

Probable

They use one set ink tone per session. One ink, one gun per a day; chosen, based on experience. Economy dictates it. Artist inspiration is shoehorned into 'system' - consistency, percentages, safety. It's technical. The most artistic thing going on is the music on the radio. They'll start conservatively with a light tone first session, see how it settles and five days later (or whatever)) let's go a darker shade second, darkest third.

 

There is one light in the room. You are stationary. Breaks are dictated by your pain threshold.

 

Are you getting my drift?

 

As for the forum, be critical too.

 

I'm not dissing HIS and I'll happily give them my cash. But think about economy and as I say the possible-probable thing. Also, for all the hype on the forum, I've seen dissenters banished and humiliated. They don't give away artist names too lightly. And I don't blame them. They go on TV and tell everyone about it. Again I don't blame them. More power to them and their franchise. How is it helping you? Telling every man in the street about tattoo heads? Be more critical.

 

One size fits all? I think so, pretty much, with a little bit here and there.

Patients with artificial hairlines wanted it that way? Some, yes, most no, but very easy to explain away with some sh&t like, Ah..the dude likes hip-hop.

Edited June 1, 2012 by scar5

[cargo65]

I don't want to tell you how to boil an egg or anything, but I think you should be more critical and think not what is only possible but what is probable.

 

Possible

They use a variety of ink tones in one session. The operator has five ink guns filled with different shades of ink all ready and all loaded with no concern whether they are 1% or 99% used. They use the ink guns like an artist uses his or her palette and brushes, juggling them as his or her inspiration and skill dictate. There are different lights used to gauge progress and your skin to ink tone match. You are judged from a distance, sitting, walking, moving and close up.

 

Sounds idealistic?

Yes, and remember accounting for fading at different tone levels and an unknown patient's skin pathology is anyone's guesswork .

 

Probable

They use one set ink tone per session. One ink, one gun per a day; chosen, based on experience. Economy dictates it. Artist inspiration is shoehorned into 'system' - consistency, percentages, safety. It's technical. The most artistic thing going on is the music on the radio. They'll start conservatively with a light tone first session, see how it settles and five days later (or whatever)) let's go a darker shade second, darkest third.

 

There is one light in the room. You are stationary. Breaks are dictated by your pain threshold.

 

Are you getting my drift?

 

As for the forum, be critical too.

 

I'm not dissing HIS and I'll happily give them my cash. But think about economy and as I say the possible-probable thing. Also, for all the hype on the forum, I've seen dissenters banished and humiliated. They don't give away artist names too lightly. And I don't blame them. They go on TV and tell everyone about it. Again I don't blame them. More power to them and their franchise. How is it helping you? Telling every man in the street about tattoo heads? Be more critical.

 

One size fits all? I think so, pretty much, with a little bit here and there.

Patients with artificial hairlines wanted it that way? Some, yes, most no, but very easy to explain away with some sh&t like, Ah..the dude likes hip-hop.

 

After reading and re-reading your post to try to make sense of it, I find there is great irony in it.

 

All of your criticisms and calls to be critical and ponder not only the "possible," but also the "probable" can literally be said about hair transplant surgery.

 

Again, this whole notion of "one-size fits all" is silly. Perhaps you've simply concluded that because 99% of the patients who receive the procedure are guys that are going to have to shave their heads the rest of their lives. In that way, yes, they will be the same.

 

But every patient has control over what they want their hairlines to look like; whether the sides will be distinct or faded in, and how dark an ink and how dense they want the SMP to look like.

 

A simple look through the message board and gallery fly in the face of your claim.

[scar5]

 

1) After reading and re-reading your post to try to make sense of it' date='

 

2) All of your criticisms and calls to be critical and ponder not only the "possible," but also the "probable" can literally be said about hair transplant surgery.

 

3) Again, this whole notion of "one-size fits all" is silly. Perhaps you've simply [/quote']

 

1) Right, too much coffee on my part. Gotta calm down over here. Self importance is my middle name!

2) Yep, and I say it often.

3) I'm not saying they don't do things differently for different patients, but I truly believe we under estimate how much isn't ideal for us, perhaps because naturally we all think we are special and that the clinic is doing it all just for us.

[AnybodyKnowsMe]

I too think there many unanswered questions. Here are my thoughts and questions:

 

(1) Can NHI, HIS or Good Look Ink effectively cover scars? For instance, I do not think NHI has ever posted photos or documented a case where all of the FUE scars were inked and not noticeable in the photos.

 

On the other hand, HIS seems to be closer to achieving this based on their posted results. HIS claims that "more pressure" is needed to inject ink into the scarred areas, especially FUE scars. I would be interested to hear NHI's opinion on this one.

 

Also, supposedly, Good Look Ink can better disguise scars too since their ink is injected deeper into the dermis. This has only been talked about on the forums but never confirmed.

 

(2) Can Good Look Ink's results be reversed since supposedly they inject the ink deeper into the dermis? Based on my current understanding, both NHI and HIS can possibly be reversed with 1-2 laser tattoo removal sessions.

 

(3) Do HIS and NHI use the same inks? Based on my knowledge gained thus far, both HIS and NHI use inks that are numbered with lower numbers being a darker shade of pigment.

 

(4) Since Good Look Ink supposedly injects the ink deeper into the dermis, would laser removal of their pigment cause permanent damage to the surrounding hair follicles (both dormant and active (healthy) follicles)?

 

(5) Who are the best practitioners at HIS (in the U.S.) and Good Look Ink with hairlines? It seems that NHI is the best at keeping the pigments looking natural in the hairline, but I have heard that some practitioners at the other clinics can achieve the same objective.

 

In sum, since it seems that we have two (2) camps of prospective micropigmentation patients (i.e., repair patients and those wishing to avoid transplants but considering SMP or MHT), I think we need to address the two (2) camps differently.

 

Obviously, for repair patients, the biggest concern is attacking and effectively disguising the FUE or FUT scars with the naturalness of the result factor being perhaps less important.

 

For non-repair patients, the achievement of a disguised and natural look seems to be the main objective.

 

Hopefully, we can get some objective answers for both camps!