Regular Member omar77 Posted October 15, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi, i have a booked strip surgury and 95% i ll go for that, but i want to see if FUE is an option for me. My middle has thinning but since i like to shave my head its not noticable and i m totaly ok with that. I have no hairloss at all for almost 3 years and i believe i ll continue not having or its gonna be really slow. I had a consultion yesterday about FUE and the plan was this. 1000 grafts in hairline and 1500 in crown. My density is about 25 cm2 and the consultant of the doc said the new hairline should be about 30 cm2. I m not sure but my opinion is that the hairline is not gonna look good and normal using about 300 grafts for each temple (and about 400 in the middle of the hairline) I post the pics and please tell me what u think. I m 31 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member runwithscissors Posted October 15, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi, first of all, who is your doc going to be? As that does make a big difference on what the end result is going to look like. The temples will likely look sparse with such a small number, but it also depends on the number of 2 and 3 hair grafts used further back into the hairline, and how well it blends with you existing native hair. Are you on finasteride and minoxidil? If not, then I'd recommend you do that in order to maintain what you currently have, even if the hair loss has slowed. As for FUE versus strip... well that's a different question, in the hands of the right surgeon FUE can be (nearly) as good as strip, also you might want to consider combining the two if, like me, your donor density is not that great over all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanx for your replies. Spex- I m in propecia about 4-5 years. I was loosing my hair even on propecia because of the bad condition of my skin.Some kind of sebhoraic dermatitis i m not sure if thats the right term. My head was always irritated and covered with sebum, i was seeing huge flakes of sebum with hair on it coming out of my head,it was really horrible. I manage to clean completely my head from that the last 3 years and from that time my middle had also some growth, it was actually thinner. From that period i havent lost any hair at all.My skin condition was very bad for many years 10 maybe more. The last 3 years its very healthy,thats why i believe i ll have no aggresive hairloss in the future. My goal if i choosed FUE would be to have a hairline not to look weird or fake with the rest of my head and some covering in the crown. runwithscissors-both doctors r very qualified and experienced doctors i have no doubt about that. i cant use minoxidil cause it ll irritate my skin. My donor i think its pretty good, the reason i m thinking FUE is to be able to shave my head so a combination of strip and fue AT THE MOMENT is not something it interests me I think i ll go for the strip i just hate the fact that i wont be able to shave my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 omar77, I'm in complete agreement with Spex and couldn't have said it better myself. I think FUT would be a much better choice to address your present and continued hair loss over the long term. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 16, 2009 i m posting a mail i got from an FUE consultant what is your opinion? "Hi, I read your post about wether or not you are a good FUE candidate. There are NO highly experienced FUE docs to be found on this board IMHO. FUE is giving you a long term plan, strip is thinking short term. Forget about not getting high numbers of grafts using FUE. Let me tell you that FUE will virtually ALWAYS give the option of harvesting more grafts than you ever could using strip. Why? Because strip is limited to the skins laxity! Don't be fooled with the results that some guys get, they are A MINORIY. But for marketing reasons they are presented as if 4000+ grafts (unsplit) are the norm. Most guys are luckly if they get 3000-3500 from their first strip and maybe another 2000 from their second strip. If you do go for FUE then ask some questions : How long have you been performing FUE? How many grafts can you transplant per day (anything under 1500 is NOT an experienced doc, believe me) How many FUE procdures do you carry out per week? What size of punches do you use (forget anything above 0,80mm ... tooo big) Manual or motorized extraction Think about the consequences of doing strip, think about the impact on the atonomy of your entire scalp, think about the damaged nerves - blood vesels and waisted grafts (much more then during FUE) Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member the B spot Posted October 16, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 16, 2009 Originally posted by omar77:"Hi, I read your post about wether or not you are a good FUE candidate. There are NO highly experienced FUE docs to be found on this board IMHO. *I disagree...Dr. Harris and Dr. Feller certainly meet the criteria for highly experienced. FUE is giving you a long term plan, strip is thinking short term. Forget about not getting high numbers of grafts using FUE. Let me tell you that FUE will virtually ALWAYS give the option of harvesting more grafts than you ever could using strip. *This is untrue, speaking in sweeping generalities like this is why some patients find themselves in hot water* Because strip is limited to the skins laxity! Don't be fooled with the results that some guys get, they are A MINORIY. But for marketing reasons they are presented as if 4000+ grafts (unsplit) are the norm. Most guys are luckly if they get 3000-3500 from their first strip and maybe another 2000 from their second strip. If you do go for FUE then ask some questions : How long have you been performing FUE? How many grafts can you transplant per day (anything under 1500 is NOT an experienced doc, believe me)* IMHO, clinics that force 1500+ grafts per day regardless of transection rate or future donor density are inexperienced at proper patient care* How many FUE procdures do you carry out per week? *Somewhat relevant, but not necessarily, based on the reputation of the clinic, and the results* What size of punches do you use (forget anything above 0,80mm ... tooo big)--- *Again, this is complete B.S. clinics have seen that the 1.0, .9 and .8mm all have use, and when used properly do not leave excessive scarring* Manual or motorized extraction ---this is fine question, one should ask this during research. Think about the consequences of doing strip, think about the impact on the atonomy of your entire scalp, think about the damaged nerves - blood vesels and waisted grafts (much more then during FUE) *This is FEAR MONGERING garbage from someone who cannot list the positives and negatives of both approaches. At the end of the day, if you do not want to do a strip session, FUE is a fine option. If you want to maximize your total donor, a combination of strip and FUE is excellent. If you want to just do strip, a proven method, that is fine as well. I think what saddens me is that using only ONE approach simply doesn't work for everyone. I think when you start making comments of this ilk, it should be a red flag..proper research, asking questions, and seeing patients in person will help refine the process of choosing a clinic. Needlessly making broad, sweeping statements and using fear to strongarm someone into choosing a particular clinic is really sad. I happen to think using either method is fine Omar, but you should know the positives and negatives to both approaches. Take Care, Jason Go Cubs! 6721 transplanted grafts 13,906 hairs Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Omar77, Wow, what a load of garbage. I'm not sure which consultant wrote this email, but it's loaded with sweeping generalities and blatant misinformation. There are pros and cons to both approaches, many of which have been discussed by very knowledgeable members of this community. Sure opinions vary, but at least the knowledgeable members of this community can intelligently discuss the pros and cons of both procedures and present reasons for their opinions. However, one thing I can tell you for sure. Avoid any and all clinics 1. that can't coherently discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both procedures 2. that use scare tactics and fear mongering to make a sale Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 16, 2009 i know the advantages and disadvantages of both procedures. I just dont know if my temples r gonna look normal and not weird or fake compared with the rest of my hairline which i have native hair cause of the small number of grafts that will be used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member M&M Posted October 16, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 16, 2009 If you do go for FUE then ask some questions :How long have you been performing FUE? How many grafts can you transplant per day (anything under 1500 is NOT an experienced doc, believe me) How many FUE procdures do you carry out per week? What size of punches do you use (forget anything above 0,80mm ... tooo big) Manual or motorized extraction Think about the consequences of doing strip, think about the impact on the atonomy of your entire scalp, think about the damaged nerves - blood vesels and waisted grafts (much more then during FUE) That certainly sounds like a consultant for a clinic! "How long have you been performing FUE" - that's a fair question and one that should be asked. But don't think that length of time should necessarily equate to superior results. As an example, Bosley (among others) has been doing HT's longer than many on this site, but Bosley is inferior as they don't have updated methods, top staff or high ethics. It's all about going to a clinic that cares for YOUR needs, not theirs; a clinic that will only perform a procedure that they can guarantee will live up to their high expectations. "How many grafts can you transplant per day (anything under 1500 is NOT an experienced doc, believe me)". Nothing could be further from the truth. This is clearly an Armani fan boy or rep. If you do go with FUE, it's not about how quickly they can get you in or out, or how many they can do in a day or a week, it's about the quality of the end result - low transection, high survival rates and excellent hairline design. "How many FUE procdures do you carry out per week?" This is a good question, but the answer may surprise you. If a doctor says 10, then this means they 'hustle' patients in and out too fast; In fact, 5 in a week may be too many unless they are all small procedures. If a doctor says (I think) anywhere from 1-5, it means that the doctor does FUE, either by itself or in addition to Strip, and is perhaps well experienced in both and allows each patient to select which procedure is right for them. A doctor that does perform both procedures can also help to determine which procedure is best for the patient given their degree of hairloss, age, expectations, etc. Don't let a doctor who only does 1 FUE per week scare you as it might mean 1 patient over the course of 2-3 days per week are set aside for FUE, while the other days are for Strip. In other words, you know the top doctors on this site, and BSpot is right: a good doctor will give you the pros and cons of both procedures. Also, take a look at people with similar hair loss as you and review before/after strip and FUE procedures. M&M ___________________________ 1662 with Dr. Ron Shapiro - Spring 2006 1105 with Dr. Ron Shapiro - Fall 2009 M&M Weblog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 i havent seen FUE in someone with same herloss as mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member MikeTheDane Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 And thats probably because the people who opt for FUE, in general have less hairloss than yourself. I do believe that your hairloss is too extensive to do fue... You're probably gonna need 3000-3500 grafts(guess, based on your pics) to achieve an acceptable result, this is not easily achieved with fue, as well as being way more expensive.. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 11/04-07 - 800-1600 ish grafts - danish clinic - poor results 12/02-08 - 2764 grafts - Dr. Devroye - good result but needs hairline density 03/12-10 - 1429 grafts - Dr. Mohmand - result pending Feel free to visit my picture thread My Hair Transplant Photos - Surgery with Dr. Devroye Young lads below 25 unite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 yes i know u r right but u know what i m thinking? 2500 grafts FUE in hairline and crown will look better for instance than 3500 grafts strip because with fue i ll be able to shave. In this pic i have let my hair to grow a lot, i shave it down to 0 normally every week. For instance i see my brother, he has more thinning than me in the middle, i would say maybe about 15 cm2 i m not sure, but he has his hairline and his crown. He shaves his head and he looks great. If he had 3500 grafts for instance strip and would have to let his hair grow he would look more thin and bald than he looks now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 take a look at this pic i took today for instance. This is 2-3 weeks after shaving in 0 scale no thinning is visible here. So besides my temples that really SUCK and my crown, i m totaly fine with the density i have in the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member JJ09 Posted October 17, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 omar77 Considering that you are shaving to 0 every week your only option would be to go with FUE and try to keep that all over defined shadow look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member the B spot Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 I don't think I would touch the crown. I think 1800 grafts into the temple/frontal forelock, and going back into the mid-scalp region would provide you with the look your going for. Another round of 2000 through the frontal forelock/mid-scalp to tie the hairline in sometime down the road would likely be necessary. You will also need to keep some grafts in reserve if your sides drop to be able to keep your self looking the same all over. I think if you pulled this off you would look as good as you possibly can. I think if you hit your crown via FUE you would end up chasing the middle continuously and be forced to continue getting HT's as you lose. I did not say you could never hit the crown, but long-term I think you should forget about it until your 40's---If propecia holds you and the FUE takes care of the short cut/decent density throughout, you can then determine. At 31 it is too early, imho. My opinion, Jason Go Cubs! 6721 transplanted grafts 13,906 hairs Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 i will not be pleased if i dont do some in my crown also. I dont want any super dense just some grafts not to look so empty. I think the only way would be if i start using body hair and beard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member MikeTheDane Posted October 18, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 it is true that fue will allow you to shave - some men do opt for restoring the hairline with fue and shave down. Personally i think that you can achieve enough density with 3500-4500 grafts strip to make it look dense enough without shaving - if thats what you want ofcourse. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 11/04-07 - 800-1600 ish grafts - danish clinic - poor results 12/02-08 - 2764 grafts - Dr. Devroye - good result but needs hairline density 03/12-10 - 1429 grafts - Dr. Mohmand - result pending Feel free to visit my picture thread My Hair Transplant Photos - Surgery with Dr. Devroye Young lads below 25 unite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member yskhleif Posted October 18, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 Hello Omar Greetings I am a NW6, I was about to do FUT surgery but then for me I thought that being a NW6 means that I might gamble with myself if I do strip. Since the outcome for NW6 might not please me at all. So as a backup plan I decided to go the FUE way, and if I did not like the outcome then hell with it, I will just buzz my hair short. Nothing in the world would compensate a man with a NW6 scale whose strip surgery might not as what one expects and in addition to top that with a scar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Balboa Posted October 18, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 that total MISSLEADING statement sounds like it came from the Armani Clinic Dr A. Armani 2500 Fue Dec 2008 Proscar X1 Day Monixodil X2 Day Msm Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member omar77 Posted October 18, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 mikethedane i think 3500-4500 grafts would do a great job if my loss in the crown was less. Now i think its gonna take too much grafts to look somehow good. I m still going for the strip cause FUE seems not to be able to satisfy my goals.And i m really concern about chances of low survival rate of FUE, i need to save as many grafts as i can for the future. yskhleif i feel exactly the same,bald shaved men look 1000 times better than those with sparse long hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member yskhleif Posted October 18, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 believe me I felt like you and was about to pull the plug for FUT. If you are NW6 you would really need at least 5000K grafts to do a great job, you have to know and accept the fact NW6 is not like a NW2,3.4 or 5. Once you start with HT FUT there is one of tow possibilities, you have to do more operations since you already paid the price by having a scar, or you are doomed. Look at how many grafts some NW6 patients get from the best coalition docs here, some receive bout 5000 grafts and above in one operation. And there is a chance that you still need another operation And I feel that this is what is required at least for a NW6. Since you already paid the price by having a scar for life, imagine how many operations from FUT you must do to achieve your final goal of density. You will need at least 2-3 operations, and do you have the budget for that and the patience for it. I am sure one thing you will experience is if you are a NW6 patient and your first HT is not up to your expectations, you will regret the whole thing, and will be doubtful that it will work for you, and that only you ended up up with a scar. If you are a NW6 and start the FUT HT you will not able to go back if the outcome you don't like from the first operation. Another thing is the stress from having a scar for life that you have to worry about all your life On the other Hand if you had FUE for in 2 operations 1st to be 3000 FUE's and then another after a year for 1500 FUE, you might meet your goals, and if not then you have the best backup to just buzz off short, and look as normal as possible. Believe me think about it many many times, a scar for life is something that can't be removed at all. BUT an unsatisfactory HT via FUE can be overcome by just buzzing and look normal, of course you need a decent and professional clinic to do it for you, if you really are speculating whether the HT result will achieve good results, and are a NW6 type patient definitely reconsider. As I told you I canceled my FUT with the clinic I booked for Nov-2 to reconsider it done by them via FUE in the future based on my fears of an unsatisfactory outcome due to the fact that I am a NW6. No way on earth will I do FUT and end up having a scar if the outcome of my HT will not up to my expectations which most likely. On the other hand I might take the chance with FUE in two operations for a total of about 4500 grafts and accept that the outcome might not be up to my expectations with the back up to buzz off. OFF course now way will I accept a clinic to do my FUE unless they show me proof how they extract the follicles and what punch sizes they use no way at all, and back up with photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member yskhleif Posted October 18, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 Balboa, I am not an armani fan boy or whatever, this is really insulting. You can ask Bill who I am, I am real NW6 patient, that went through hell to decide what is best for me, and Bill knows how many times I consulted him. Maybe I don't agree with Bill's advices for some personal reasons, but I am in now way affiliated to any clinic at all. And Bill knows my story and how worried I was undergoing for a strip since I am a NW6, and many many people told me that NW6 need at least 5000 grafts to achieve good results. So please don't start accusing me being a promoter or whatever, I am really going under lots of stress. IT IS A FACT A NW6 will need at least 5000 grafts and still maybe more. IT is a fact that from one operation with 2500 to 3000 grafts for a NW6 are nothing but a disaster in my opinion. And I am so sure that having a decent outcome via FUE 4500 grafts under 2 operations for a NW6 will better since you can accept a short short hair style with no fear of a scar. So please Balboa apologize for your statement about me being fan boy of armani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member runwithscissors Posted October 18, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 yskhleif - i don't think Balboa was referring to your post, I think he was referring to what Omar77 had posted as the 'advice' given to him by a FUE clinic consultant/rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Balboa Posted October 18, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2009 Hi yskhleif i wasnt refering to your post i was refering the the email recived by Omar77 i should have used the quote option to save confusion i am very disapointed with my own armani HT and wish i had never had it done i have been through loads of problems from the begining and there still happening now, basicly they screwed my hairline design left me with loads of scaring in the recipiant site, left me with hardly any donar and also one side did not even grow properly not to mension the fact that im loosing transplanted hair at the moment which im hopeing is just a shed but knowing my luck so far i will do well to make it to the end of the year without looking like i did before i went in + scaring Dr A. Armani 2500 Fue Dec 2008 Proscar X1 Day Monixodil X2 Day Msm Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member yskhleif Posted October 19, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 19, 2009 I think it is a big big gamble for NW6 patients to do a transplant unless you consider the following: 1- That you must admit to yourself that no matter how tempted you are to do a HT you must know that the outcome from the first operation might just look really not up to your expectations, since a NW6 will definately need in my opinion at least 5000 grafts in his first operation. 2- You have the budget to do at least 2-3 operations, and starting with at least the first operation to be at least 5000 grafts. THis is to avoid the depression or unhappy feeling that could result from doing the first HT. I am sure that less than 5000 grafts will give bad results, and this will affect a NW6 hugely. Usually the area to cover for a NW6 patient is about 150 cm2, if you multiply it with an acceptable density this means 150*40=6000 grafts. So it is a must to grant at least 5000 grafts to focus on the 1/3 and 2/3 of the scalp which then will leave you with the crwon to work on later. I will never ever accept less than 5000 grafts FUT, since I will be doomed since I have to maintain my hair a little long to hide the scar. 3- You have to have the donor supply for at least 8000 grafts as a total for 2-3 operations. THis is really important. I really think this forum should really consider putting a real solid guideline for NW6 patients and let them understand what the implication are if a patinet goes for a transplant with less than 5000 grafts. This is no joke at all, who wants to look with a freaking hair style when a NW6 patients goes in for the first operation with only 2500 to 3000 grafts. It will be a misery for the patient, and him just look ridiculous. Also Doctors should treat NW6 cases with all care, and explain to them what a NW6 outcome would be if less than 5000 grafts are used. I feel so relieved now that i cancelled my HT with FUT. I will no matter what accept looking weird with a sparse hairline. I might however accept doing 3000 graft FUE and maintain my hair very very short, and know that I might need toppik to help me a little in covering some areas. With the knowledge that I will go in for another FUE for about 1500 grafts after a year, and also I will keep my hiar very very short and I might still need toppik to cover some areas. But AT least I know if the whole 4500 grafts just did a bad job then I will buzz off. Now I will never ever accept a clinic that has a bad reputation in FUE, like armani or whatever. THey have to proof to me that they use tools that prodcue minimal scarring, since the whole deal here to have the backup plan to buzz off. Finally Balboa, could you post some pictures, and what NW6 scale are you? Do your scar prevent you from buzzing to clip#1. And finally I am sorry I accused you so please accept also my apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now