Dr. John Cole - Forhair

[control]

Hello Everyone,

 

I need some guidance in making a decision regarding my follow up transplant.

 

First, some things you should know:::::

 

1) I have been on Generic Proscar (5mg = Split into four pieces) Which I take almost daily for the last 3+ Years.

2) I also attempt again the key is attempt to apply Generic Minioxidil once a day in my crown area. (rear of the head + crown)

3) My father is 6 on Norwood scale.

4) I have been battling hair loss for roughly 7 years and I am about to turn 29.

 

Now onto things I have done to address my hair loss::::

 

1) Along with non surgical remedies, I have had four small FUE Hair transplants from Dr. Cole over last 4-5 years (1st = ~500G, 2nd= ~600, 3rd= ~650, 4th=don't remember, all in all 1800 grafts). Mostly, all of the hair was placed in rear/crown to cope with thinning hair.

 

2) I must say the results were pleasing as it provided coverage in the rear/crown area. Again, note not to judge the results by reviewing today's pic. I believe I continue to experience hair loss over time and the pic taken is a close up with ton of light. And most importantly, you do not have a pre op pics.

 

 

So now on to the decision for my fourth HT to provide additional coverage in the rear/crown.

 

1) Ok, now although I am happy with Dr. Cole's results and conservative approach in the past. I would like to hear from others who have gotten transplants from Dr. Shapiro.

 

2) The biggest thing I want to know is the reasoning why Dr. Cole isn't recommended on this site. I have read a few posts that question the ethics. Can someone please expand on the matter? Is it results/growth/yield driven bias?

 

Now, my reason for consulting Dr. Shapiro is that this site seems to favor him and the fact that he perhaps offers his procedure alot cheaper than Dr. Cole.

 

If you have any clarifying question, please do ask and I will do my best to provide further clarification.

Edited August 4, 2010 by control

[Danielkiwi]

Hi Control

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro is an excellent surgeon and i would select him without battling an eyelid if i had to do a FUT procedure....He is the only doctor on whom i have not seen any negative reviews..i am sure he also has some sub-par results but the fact that patients dont create any negative posts speaks a lot IMO...

 

He will be my choice if i decide to do a FUT...i am still deciding between a FUT and FUE and unfortunately, i havent seen enough FUE results from him to be comfortable about going to him for FUE...Are you planning a FUT or a FUE...i have been researching Dr. Bisanga from belgium recently and he seems to be top notch for FUE...I also know that he does consultations in washington DC few times in a year..he would def. be worth a consulation for a FUE procedure if you live in america or europe...

 

He is not recommended on this forum either and i would not worry too much about recommendations...although the surgeons recommended on this forum are ethical and stand behind their work, there is no reason to beleive that other doctors are not good.End of the day, doctors have to pay for membership in this forum and some of them might not be interested in doing the same..do your research and keep us posted...I am also interested in FUE and have been researching diligently for the same..

 

Is price the only reason you want to choose Shapiro over cole? How was the FUE yield and scarring with cole..?

[haircut]

You can never go wrong with Dr. Shapiro!

[control]

Danielkiwi,

 

I am really only interested in FUE because of limited to no scarring. I can tell you that after three procedures from Dr. Cole, I have had no issues with scarring in the donor or recipient area (Atleast not visible to me).

 

In terms of yield, well I can tell you 6-8 months post op, I was able to note the difference, hence my return to Dr. Cole for more coverage. Yes at this time price is key since both doctors seem to be respected.

 

Here is something to note. Please have your expectations clear. If you look at my pic today, I could easily use 2000+ grafts to have a fuller look but given my age that wouldn't be the best for me. All I my trying to do is maintain coverage to cope with continuous hair loss and hope hair cloning soon resolves the limited donor supply issue.

 

How long has it been since Dr Shapiro started FUE? Did he develop his own tools / techniques or did he work with any other doctor? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

Control

 

 

Hi Control

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro is an excellent surgeon and i would select him without battling an eyelid if i had to do a FUT procedure....He is the only doctor on whom i have not seen any negative reviews..i am sure he also has some sub-par results but the fact that patients dont create any negative posts speaks a lot IMO...

 

He will be my choice if i decide to do a FUT...i am still deciding between a FUT and FUE and unfortunately, i havent seen enough FUE results from him to be comfortable about going to him for FUE...Are you planning a FUT or a FUE...i have been researching Dr. Bisanga from belgium recently and he seems to be top notch for FUE...I also know that he does consultations in washington DC few times in a year..he would def. be worth a consulation for a FUE procedure if you live in america or europe...

 

He is not recommended on this forum either and i would not worry too much about recommendations...although the surgeons recommended on this forum are ethical and stand behind their work, there is no reason to beleive that other doctors are not good.End of the day, doctors have to pay for membership in this forum and some of them might not be interested in doing the same..do your research and keep us posted...I am also interested in FUE and have been researching diligently for the same..

 

Is price the only reason you want to choose Shapiro over cole? How was the FUE yield and scarring with cole..?

Edited August 4, 2010 by control

[Bill - Seemiller]

He is not recommended on this forum either and i would not worry too much about recommendations...although the surgeons recommended on this forum are ethical and stand behind their work, there is no reason to beleive that other doctors are not good.End of the day, doctors have to pay for membership in this forum and some of them might not be interested in doing the same..do your research and keep us posted...I am also interested in FUE and have been researching diligently for the same..

 

Daniel, I agree but I want to clarify a few things.

 

We only recommend physicians who meet our high standards. Those physicians who prove to meet our high standards and are approved for recommendation agree to pay a nominal fee to co-sponsor our community. This is is all layed out on our physician selection standards page. Over the years, we've prescreened and turned down privately dozens of physicians who were willing to pay for their recommendation that we felt didn't meet our standards. That said, we do agree that just because a physician isn't recommended on the Hair Transplant Network, it doesn't mean they're not doing quality work.

 

What we can say however, is that we feel confident in the ability, experience and skill of those surgeons we've approved for recommendation. However, patients should always do their own due diligence in researching all physicians they are considering. That's why we allow patients to share their genuine experiences, good or bad on this forum and social community.

 

All the Best,

 

Bill

[control]

Some updated info::

 

Hey guys, I just talked to a rep at forhair to get some details and I have actually had four procedures over five years totaling 1800 grafts. I also updated the original thread approx. 1PM EST.

[Danielkiwi]

Yes. Bill..that is exactly the point i was trying to make and you have just explained it in detail. thanks for that!! i have a lot of respect for this forum and the doctors on this forum for if it was not for this forum, i would have been butchered by MHR 3 years back..so please keep the good work going...BTW, is there a reason Dr. Bisanaga is not recommended on this forum?

 

Control - How old are you? I dont exactly but i think Dr. Shapiro ventured into FUE around 2006 or 2007 (Maybe BSpot and Janna can confirm)...I think they use their own tools and Dr. Shapiro would not get into something he does not beleive in..he has a stellar reputation and would not do anythiing to spoil it.. If i were to see a significant number of patient results, i would choose him without any doubts esp for the price he offers!!! Beleive me, i have tried to PM atleast 4-5 of his patients who started documenting their progress but did not go through by providing the final result..but they have not responded to my emails...they might very well be happy in life and have moved on..or the other way around....who knows?

 

Try emailing Bspot or Janna and they might be able to answer your more specific questions..as far as my goals are concerned, i want an option to throw in the towel anytime after undergoing a HT..that is why i am considering FUE..if i get fed up with it, i will just buzz my hair to No.1. or No.2 and move on in life....some patients have gotten really good scars with FUT and can buzz it to No.3 or No.4 but i am just not comfortable with an ear to ear scar on the back of my head..please keep me updated about your progress..and i highly recommend consulting Dr. Shapiro as well....i will also keep you updated on my consultaion with Dr. Bisanga...his prices are similiar to Dr. Shapiro

[control]

Danielkiwi,

 

I am at the verge of turning 29. I would assume Dr. Shapiro's patients are happy and moved on because given our nature, we tend to complain when things aren't good but move on when life is surpassing our expectations.

 

After reading your responses, I can tell you that it would be very difficult to throw in the towel but if you are like me and you do want an option then FUT is out of question. The best advice I can give someone young looking into a HT.

 

1) Given our current research & capabilities, realize that you may never have thick hair you enjoyed at an early age

 

2) After lowering expectations so they are in line with reality, I would suggest small procedures. Advantages will be that you will limit shock loss, see how your body responds to transplanted hair, limit cash outlay, limit potential damage if you select the wrong doctor, you will get some additional coverage if things turn out well and properly plan for future. Disadvantages will be that you will think that oh my hair looks the same and HT didn't help and so forth...

 

3) Realize that as you grow older, small procedure will help maintain coverage where your head doesn't look bald and will let you return to normal life feeling some level of satisfaction that there is a solution to my problem but requires patience. After the third procedure, many commented that I regrew hair and whatever i was doing was working. So that is definitely a positive.

 

Control

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. Bill..that is exactly the point i was trying to make and you have just explained it in detail. thanks for that!! i have a lot of respect for this forum and the doctors on this forum for if it was not for this forum, i would have been butchered by MHR 3 years back..so please keep the good work going...BTW, is there a reason Dr. Bisanaga is not recommended on this forum?

 

Control - How old are you? I dont exactly but i think Dr. Shapiro ventured into FUE around 2006 or 2007 (Maybe BSpot and Janna can confirm)...I think they use their own tools and Dr. Shapiro would not get into something he does not beleive in..he has a stellar reputation and would not do anythiing to spoil it.. If i were to see a significant number of patient results, i would choose him without any doubts esp for the price he offers!!! Beleive me, i have tried to PM atleast 4-5 of his patients who started documenting their progress but did not go through by providing the final result..but they have not responded to my emails...they might very well be happy in life and have moved on..or the other way around....who knows?

 

Try emailing Bspot or Janna and they might be able to answer your more specific questions..as far as my goals are concerned, i want an option to throw in the towel anytime after undergoing a HT..that is why i am considering FUE..if i get fed up with it, i will just buzz my hair to No.1. or No.2 and move on in life....some patients have gotten really good scars with FUT and can buzz it to No.3 or No.4 but i am just not comfortable with an ear to ear scar on the back of my head..please keep me updated about your progress..and i highly recommend consulting Dr. Shapiro as well....i will also keep you updated on my consultaion with Dr. Bisanga...his prices are similiar to Dr. Shapiro

Edited August 4, 2010 by control

[Sparky]

Wish there had been fue when I had my first HT, which wasnt a good result, infact none of my HT's were good results until I got repaired by Dr Bisanga, I had fue into my scar and that seem to be coming through nicely. When I next go to the hairdressers I wont have to tell them to be carefull around the scar anymore. Wont be getting my hair cut again this year though.

[Danielkiwi]

Hi Control

 

My thinking matches with yours regarding the Plan of action. You have undergone FUE 4 times and hence proobably know better than me....Can you please explain why would it be difficult to throw in the towel after doing a FUE esp when i turn 40+ (i am 32 currently) i know FUT is another story and i have decided not to go for it..

[Danielkiwi]

Hi Sparky

 

Since you have been to Dr. Bisanga, can you share your thoughts and experience. How was your scarring and how is the growth yield..Do you know why is he not recommended on this forum?

[TC17]

I've seen some very nice results from Dr. Cole, but I've also seen some not so nice results from him.

 

You said two things that I find troubling. One, is that your dad is a NW 6, and the other is that you've had all of your grafts transplanted to the crown. That was very reckless of Dr. Cole.

 

You've been experiencing hair loss since your early 20's, that's one red flag. Your dad is a NW 6, that's a second red flag. You have all of the predictors of becoming a NW 6+ yourself. Why on earth would Dr. Cole put hair in the crown of a 20 something year old man with a family history of extensive baldness? Even though minimal grafts were used, you will not have enough to keep up with future loss if you progress to the level of your dad using FUE alone, and you might not have enough even if you combine FUE with strip. The risk in putting grafts into a crown on a younger patient far outweighs the short term benefits of doing so.

 

I realize that H&W, Rahal, Feller, and others have also put grafts into the crown of some young patients, but that doesn't make it right. Until a doctor can accurately predict future hair loss it is a mistake to transplant to the crown. Look at Phil Jackson of the LA Lakers, he had a GREAT head of hair well into his 40's, and now he's a NW 5. Look at Danny Devito, who was around a NW 6 level in the movie Rainman when he was in his early 50's, and now he's a NW 7.

[control]

Danielkiwi,

 

The reason it gets tougher to throw in the towel is because you somewhat get hooked if you see decent gains from HT. With a reputable doctor, a decent savings, and eagerness to cover your head with hair, it gets difficult to throw in the towel once you realize that there is a workable, less invasive solution to cure balding. Again, I am very biased here but trust me, once going under FUE, and realizing that small procedures aren't bad at all, you somewhat just tend to work harder to save up more money to get the next one. In all my procedure, I choose to have shaven FIT, which in my case required 8-9 days for donor area to regrow hair so I can get a decent fade(haircut) and getting back to normal life.

 

One thing I will say is that if you are worried about your hair, FUE is an excellent choice to attack the problem with some strategy.

 

See the pic I attached without so much damn light. I like the coverage and will add to it with next session of 700-1000.

 

Control

 

Hi Control

 

My thinking matches with yours regarding the Plan of action. You have undergone FUE 4 times and hence proobably know better than me....Can you please explain why would it be difficult to throw in the towel after doing a FUE esp when i turn 40+ (i am 32 currently) i know FUT is another story and i have decided not to go for it..

Edited August 4, 2010 by control

[control]

TC17,

 

Let me clarify again that grafts were placed in "Rear/Crown" not just in crown. In five years having only placed 1800 across rear and crown has allowed for coverage now and is decent planning for future. I would hardly call it "reckless of Dr. Cole."

 

Now, it would be stupid for me to tell you that I will not care about hair later in life but that doesn't at all mean that I don't care about hair now. Moreover, hair is personally more important to me now. The supply is constrained given our current capabilities in the HT field but I take that into consideration hence do not go for dense packing in areas. As you can see from another pic yes the hair doesn't look thick but there is definitely coverage and looks better than when I had minimum hair in the rear / crown.

 

Again one thing to note is that Dr. Cole only agreed to give me a procedure after I had been on Minioxidil and Proscar for approx a year. So here was our discussion....

 

After reviewing some patients photos, I asked Dr. Cole to imagine i was NW 6 and needed a HT and asked how many grafts would you put on my head. Well then Dr. Cole mentioned that it depended on what was available. Well we did some estimates after he reviewed my donor area. Then Dr. Cole said well we need more in front obviously for hair line and so forth. So, I asked well how about in the back well he said with decent supply we could afford 2000 to 3000 in rear which will leave us a good bit for the front. Well this is when we decided small is good for me. We moved forward with small procedure just to cope with hair loss. Overall, I am happy because it boosted my confidence and I know there is hope.

 

Moreover, with BHT and possibility that we may see hair cloning will serve as a contingency plan incase I begin to run out of donor hair which shouldn't be the case since we planned appropriately.

 

Control

 

 

 

I've seen some very nice results from Dr. Cole, but I've also seen some not so nice results from him.

 

You said two things that I find troubling. One, is that your dad is a NW 6, and the other is that you've had all of your grafts transplanted to the crown. That was very reckless of Dr. Cole.

 

You've been experiencing hair loss since your early 20's, that's one red flag. Your dad is a NW 6, that's a second red flag. You have all of the predictors of becoming a NW 6+ yourself. Why on earth would Dr. Cole put hair in the crown of a 20 something year old man with a family history of extensive baldness? Even though minimal grafts were used, you will not have enough to keep up with future loss if you progress to the level of your dad using FUE alone, and you might not have enough even if you combine FUE with strip. The risk in putting grafts into a crown on a younger patient far outweighs the short term benefits of doing so.

 

I realize that H&W, Rahal, Feller, and others have also put grafts into the crown of some young patients, but that doesn't make it right. Until a doctor can accurately predict future hair loss it is a mistake to transplant to the crown. Look at Phil Jackson of the LA Lakers, he had a GREAT head of hair well into his 40's, and now he's a NW 5. Look at Danny Devito, who was around a NW 6 level in the movie Rainman when he was in his early 50's, and now he's a NW 7.

Edited August 4, 2010 by control

[Danielkiwi]

Hi Control

 

I get your point. I was more concerned if we would not be able to throw in the towel due to scarring or unnatural looking hairline once we loose more native hair...but you seem to suggest that there is no significant scarring which is good..

 

I personally feel that this is a cosmetic surgery and you should have a little leeway in deciding about the placement of grafts..it looks like you have a sound strategy and are working on a plan...I also feel that people waste too many grafts covering the temple, hairline etc and hence end up with a see through scalp from the top and crown..they look good in pictures with their hairline but i would be concerned about this in my day to day life...

 

My strategy is to have an overall coverage and not waste too many grafts in the temple region..i can live with a receeding hairline as long as i am able to buzz my hair to No.2...do you think this is realistic with FUE if i proceed to a NW 6...i am trading in the NW 3 or 4 category currently..thanks

[control]

DanielKiwi,

 

I have seen NW 7 folks get 10000+ procedures and come out with decent coverage. So to answer you, hell yeah it is possible.

 

You are 32, and given that you are checking this forum often, I would say you are very worried about your hair. I was on a similar forum before I made the decision to get a procedure, but afterwards I went off the forum for roughly 5 years and now I am back b/c I need some updates and guidance before I make another commitment with Dr Cole. The main reason I visited this forum was to learn about Dr. Shapiro and work he has done in FUE but I am still waiting to get good feedback.

 

You have a good strategy, just start small and adapt to results and updates accordingly. Going with FUE provides additional flexibility. I buzzed my hair the other day with a 2-guard and will do so again before next procedure.

 

Control

 

 

 

Hi Control

 

I get your point. I was more concerned if we would not be able to throw in the towel due to scarring or unnatural looking hairline once we loose more native hair...but you seem to suggest that there is no significant scarring which is good..

 

I personally feel that this is a cosmetic surgery and you should have a little leeway in deciding about the placement of grafts..it looks like you have a sound strategy and are working on a plan...I also feel that people waste too many grafts covering the temple, hairline etc and hence end up with a see through scalp from the top and crown..they look good in pictures with their hairline but i would be concerned about this in my day to day life...

 

My strategy is to have an overall coverage and not waste too many grafts in the temple region..i can live with a receeding hairline as long as i am able to buzz my hair to No.2...do you think this is realistic with FUE if i proceed to a NW 6...i am trading in the NW 3 or 4 category currently..thanks

[Sparky]

Hi Sparky

 

Since you have been to Dr. Bisanga, can you share your thoughts and experience. How was your scarring and how is the growth yield..Do you know why is he not recommended on this forum?

 

I dont have any visible fue scarring, and I have been down to a number clip all over!

 

My growth into my scar has been good, Its not as easy to find anymore, someone who didnt know what they were looking for would have a hard time finding it. I can find it because I have lived with it for so long.

My fue into my hairline isnt at 4 months yet so i'm way off evaluating growth.

 

Yeah I know why Dr Bisanga isnt on here, but its got nothing to do with his ability as a surgeon. If a clinic is busy 100% of the time maybe they dont need more publicity. Hes a very good doctor, very ethical and a good human being imho.

I was totally relaxed in the chair although, I was in it all day both times, the staff are all very pleasant, and the patient co-ordinators are spot on.

[Danielkiwi]

Do you live in america sparky...if yes, did he perform your surgery in Washington DC

[Sparky]

No i'm in England, I wasnt aware that he did surgery anywhere other than Brussels.

[Bill - Seemiller]

is there a reason Dr. Bisanaga is not recommended on this forum?

 

Dr. Bisanga has been invited to present examples of his work on this forum to be considered for recommendation. However, while he has expressed some interest, to date, he has not taken us up on our opportunity. The invitation to him is still open if he'd like to be considered for potential recommendation.

 

Thanks for asking,

 

Bill