Surgery: only for the weathy??

[thunderball]

You have 2 choices. You can go back to school, earn a decent degree and then earn more as a result. Or you can save up at your current rate.

 

I don't think it is fair to mention the cost for an HT as being $20k, because the cost depends on the clinic and the degree of loss you have. Some of the best clinics (Rahal/H & W) offer just about 5000 grafts for $20k. 5000 grafts is A LOT of grafts, well-above normal and it usually involves NW4-6 patients. So please don't make it seem as $20k is the norm, because it isn't.

 

I rate 5A on the Norwood scale. Decent degree? I've a fresh BA in Business. But no one is hiring 48 yr olds whom are new to the field.

[Sparky]

A european sports car is not a necessity, and a lot more time goes into making a car than an HT. My opinion is that all HT docs are charging too much, people might not agree and thats fine, but thats my opinion and i'm sticking by it.

[Sparky]

If my car breaks down, i'll fix it myself, cars are easy to work on, cant imagine who wouldnt be able to fix their own car. Not gonna get prosecuted of any offense as I dont commit crimes.

[EpilepticSceptic]

I personally don't think the great docs doing HTs charge too much. If they weren't making good money then they would have less passion, and I think the end result would be lower quality work. Some of the HT results I have seen from top docs would be worth $100,000 to somebody like me, and I'm not rich by a long shot either! You can't compare it to a sports car because a bald guy in a sports car is still a baldie !!! I'd rather have my hair and ride a skateboard around town than be a baldie in a sports car.

 

The main problem I have with some HT docs/clinics is when you see an obvious failure and they won't refund the money to the patient. Instead they offer a "free 2nd surgery". To me that is unethical! I agree that these clinics are making ALOT of money, and therefore when those failure cases arise (which for a top clinic should be few) they should have no problem immediately refunding the patient's money.

 

I've seen quite a few cases on blogs here where the case was an obvious failure. Why should the patient expect a second surgery to be any different ? If the clinic made mistakes on the first surgery they should admit it and refund the money. We are paying for X amount of grafts at a price PER GRAFT. So whatever percentage of those grafts don't grow should be refunded to the patient, plain and simple. Otherwise the price should not be "per graft", but instead a flat fee.

[Sparky]

Yeah this second free surgery thing instead of a refund is a total cop out.

[Goldilocks]

I think sometimes we forget that this is a highly specialized field and what you are paying for is the expertise. Not to mention, look at how many staff are working on one patient and all of them need to get paid in addition to the doctor too. Add in the equipment needed, the facilities...

 

It is only fitting that physicians in this field are able to have a very comfortable lifestyle outside of work... They have worked very hard to get where they are; many years of education, specialized training...

 

Just look at how many hours a day are invested in their work too. Sometimes I wonder how they fit in their hobbies with all the patients they see, followups, correspondance, ongoing professional development etc...

 

Of course, there is no excuse for subpar physicians to be in this same elite boat.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Goldilocks

[Sparky]

my wife was in uni for 7 years earning her PHD. You cant tell me that an HT doc is doing the same amount of work in one day or even one week, as my wife is doing in six months?

Edited June 24, 2010 by Sparky

[Goldilocks]

I'm certainly not going to try to argue with you Sparky. It sounds like you are pretty jaded which is really too bad.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Goldilocks

[Slaps]

my wife was in uni for 7 years earning her PHD. You cant tell me that an HT doc is doing the same amount of work in one day or even one week, as my wife is doing in six months.

 

Of course not sparky, HTs are grotesquely expensive imo, its been my experience that most of work is performed by techs earning probably $20-$30 per hour. In my case not a single graft was transplanted by the surgeon, not one. As far as im concerned since the techs performed the actions of preparing the grafts then transplanting them, technically, they did my HT. The surgeon spent no more then 1hr making incisions, about 15 minutes removing the strip and 1 minute stapling the wound. A further 45 minutes was spent waiting for the anaesthetic to effect.

[Danielkiwi]

Hi surgery

 

I am curious to know how many surgeries you have done and who were your surgeons. I know you havent had a good experience and it is ok if you dont want to share..but i would appreciate your feedback in detail as it would help me make an informative decision

[Sparky]

I'm certainly not going to try to argue with you Sparky. It sounds like you are pretty jaded which is really too bad.

 

I dont want to argue and i'm not jaded either.

 

To be honest I dont understand why people are having a crack at me, I said it was just my opinion and you dont have to agree with me, that should be the end of it as far as i'm concerned.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Sparky

[Sparky]

Of course not sparky, HTs are grotesquely expensive imo, its been my experience that most of work is performed by techs earning probably $20-$30 per hour. In my case not a single graft was transplanted by the surgeon, not one. As far as im concerned since the techs performed the actions of preparing the grafts then transplanting them, technically, they did my HT. The surgeon spent no more then 1hr making incisions, about 15 minutes removing the strip and 1 minute stapling the wound. A further 45 minutes was spent waiting for the anaesthetic to effect.

 

 

Same as me.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Sparky

[Danielkiwi]

Just chill guys...it all comes out to be the Law of economics (Demand vs supply), if people are willing to pay for it, then i dont blame the doctors for charging the same...if at some time, an elite doctor decides to charge $3 a graft, that would put shake the economy of hair transplant and would force other doctors to come down too...I fact there is an example of Shapiro medical group right in front of us...i beleive they are charging $6 for a FUE graft whereas some doctors are charging $10 or more a graft..i bet you if they come up with some outstanding results, we will see other doctors match their price..i hope somebody does that with the FUT as well..now on the other hand if hair cloning comes in to the market, then everybody knows what the furture of HT will be....economics is pretty awesome and it will take its own course...nobody can stop that

[Slaps]

Hi surgery

 

I am curious to know how many surgeries you have done and who were your surgeons. I know you havent had a good experience and it is ok if you dont want to share..but i would appreciate your feedback in detail as it would help me make an informative decision

 

 

Dan,

I presume you mean me, Slaps? if not apologies if so;-

 

2, 1 poorly performed, 1 correctly performed, neither satisfactory to me. The first was the Norton clinic who I name because they I believe they are dangerous, the second I won't name because presently I suspect they perform HTs correctly according to industry standards so I see no purpose in warning properly informed people from using them. Having said this, I am currently anti HT so share my personal experience to provide research material for those looking into HTs. Like I've said before, Its not important to me that im perceived mad, bitter, negative or a liar. Im just a faceless cyber entity calling itself slaps. People are free to think what they like of me

[Sparky]

My first was with Norton aswell, actually performed by the man himself and tbh, I could of done it better myself and I really really mean that, I would of at least got the angles right.

[Slaps]

No one deserves to make 6k in a day, I dont care how long they were in school for. My repair work has landed me in debt that I can handle, but its a struggle.

 

 

$6k in a day? I suspect the top clinics make 3 times that mate..

Edited July 19, 2010 by Slaps
too harsh

[Sparky]

I was talking about after overheads, and just what goes to the doc.

[Danielkiwi]

i actually did mean slaps...so sorry about that..i really appreciate the fact that you are trying to warn people and i defintely dont see you as a mad person or something...not that you care about it any way...i am sure you have had a tough time dealing with Norton work and i can totally emphatise with you....However, lets say you would have not gone to Norton at all and used your second surgeon right away, how would your experience been then and what is it about your second surgery that you dont like..

[Goldilocks]

I dont want to argue and i'm not jaded either.

 

 

 

I wasn't trying to provoke you into an argument so I apologize if you interpreted my post in that way. In all sincerity, it is awful that your first experience was not a positive one. I can only imagine being in that position as I was fortuntate with both of my surgeries and was willing to pay whatever was asked to have them done. By no means am I wealthy, but I was able to prioritize my finances and pay both surgeries in full both times.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Goldilocks

[Sparky]

Actually it was my first 4 Surgeries that were all bad and the 2 after that were to correct that bad work. If you look at my Hairloss Website you'll see that I never actually needed surgery in the first place, I was a 22 year old kid that some wicked doctors thought they could get money out of, and they were right.

[EpilepticSceptic]

I haven't yet seen 1 single patient who wasn't butchered by the Norton clinic after researching this stuff for 5 years. I think that just about says it all.

 

If you get butchered the first time it is likely you'll always have negative views towards HTs, no matter who performs them -- sort of like a white woman who gets assaulted by a man and cannot help but seeing all males as potential threats afterwards.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Future_HT_Doc
removed some colorful language : )

[Slaps]

i actually did mean slaps...so sorry about that..i really appreciate the fact that you are trying to warn people and i defintely dont see you as a mad person or something...not that you care about it any way...i am sure you have had a tough time dealing with Norton work and i can totally emphatise with you....However, lets say you would have not gone to Norton at all and used your second surgeon right away, how would your experience been then and what is it about your second surgery that you dont like..

 

Hi Dan, many of the grafts placed during the 2nd HT failed to grow, I dont know why for sure, possibly because of scar tissue from Norton? consequently all I see are scars and plugs and no real improvement. Secondly the ht doesnt match the native hair, much thicker much darker, stands out and screams fake, Thirdly, the scar is a problem, visible when hair is wet and anything less than a grade 5 clipper, the rest of my hair is thinning so looks better shorter, i cant do this because the scar will show and I hate the mullet look.

I dont know how I would have looked without the first HT, because its all I can see, I would say my second HT was a failure but unfortunately I cant blame the clinic because they will say say its because the first one was a screw up. Im angry because I was told it was an easy repair and would look perfect, i was also told that the old plugs could'nt be removed because they would shear off, which I now believe is not true. Had I been warned that the repair could fail because of scar tissue, I definately would'nt have risked it.

[Danielkiwi]

wow..i feel for you slaps....it sure must be tough dealing with all these issues...imho, if your second clinic did not warn you and said that repair was pretty straightforward, then they should be held accountable for the same..did you talk to them and ask what happened..earlier, you had mentioned that you dont blame the second clinic but it appears that it is only fair that they take some responsibility for your condition...do you see scarring on the recipient area from your second HT or is it just scarring from Norton work..

[Danielkiwi]

hi sceptic

 

I liked your analogy.My heart sure goes out for these guys who have been butchered by crappy clinics....but i am not sure if we can blame them either.....probably they were just not talented and equipped and there warent many good doctors those days...who knows 15 years down the read, we might make fun of our scars and say that we were butchered too!!!

[EpilepticSceptic]

Dan,

 

I really don't think you can compare the two. Have you seen any patients in person from a top clinic ? I've seen many, and not just the home-run cases you see on their websites. In every case where it was a virgin head pre-HT there was no evidence of scarring in the recipient area, and all the hair angulation was correct. Also, when the donor scar is done right you cannot find it even with short hair. You run a comb thru it and it's almost impossible to locate even though you are looking for it.

 

Now if a patient has dark, coarse donor hair on very pale skin then Slaps is right that the grafts can look "pluggy" and too thick, even when done by a top doc. I've seen a few of these, and though most people would never be able to tell anything was done, it would not satisfy me. If I had donor hair like that and pale skin I would just have avoided getting a HT.

 

If you haven't met patients in person who have your characteristics then you have no business planning a HT.