HT procedure from Dr.Vogel in Maryland

[mak]

Folks,

All the information on this website and the before and after pictures from the people who had the HT done helped me in making the decision to go ahead with a HT procedure from Dr.James Vogel on the 21st of December.

 

I consulted with Dr.Vogel in August of 2006 and I think he said I am Norwood 5 with an average donor area - but nevertheless a good candidate for FUT. Dr.Vogel and his support staff explained about the procedure and answered the questions I had written down about the procedure. I was hoping for one mega session of around 3000 grafts - but the doctor turned it down and said it is better to break it down to two smaller procedures and he explained to me why. He said, he will shoot for 1800 or slightly above that. Overall, I was happy with the consultation and the same day I decided to go ahead with the procedure. I was quoted $8500 for 1500 grafts for the 1st session and he also said I will need another session in the later half of next year. I was hoping to get to talk to some of his patients but I did not. The quote said, I hadd to pay 10% when the surgery date is set and the rest of it two weeks before the surgery date.

 

I want to hear from the readers on this forum who had procedures done by Dr.Vogel or anything they know about Dr.Vogel. I felt comfortable and was very happy the way he did the consultation. I also want to know if the quote is in line with what the other doctors are charging in this area. Also, is it a normal practice to pay the entire amount up front?

 

Please help me on what I should ask the doctor on the day of the surgery in terms of the closure technique in the donor area (dissolvable suture, etc.) or anything that I should make sure before the procedure.

 

This site is a wealth of information and my thanks to all of you who are contributing to it.

 

Regards.

MAK

[mak]

Folks,

All the information on this website and the before and after pictures from the people who had the HT done helped me in making the decision to go ahead with a HT procedure from Dr.James Vogel on the 21st of December.

 

I consulted with Dr.Vogel in August of 2006 and I think he said I am Norwood 5 with an average donor area - but nevertheless a good candidate for FUT. Dr.Vogel and his support staff explained about the procedure and answered the questions I had written down about the procedure. I was hoping for one mega session of around 3000 grafts - but the doctor turned it down and said it is better to break it down to two smaller procedures and he explained to me why. He said, he will shoot for 1800 or slightly above that. Overall, I was happy with the consultation and the same day I decided to go ahead with the procedure. I was quoted $8500 for 1500 grafts for the 1st session and he also said I will need another session in the later half of next year. I was hoping to get to talk to some of his patients but I did not. The quote said, I hadd to pay 10% when the surgery date is set and the rest of it two weeks before the surgery date.

 

I want to hear from the readers on this forum who had procedures done by Dr.Vogel or anything they know about Dr.Vogel. I felt comfortable and was very happy the way he did the consultation. I also want to know if the quote is in line with what the other doctors are charging in this area. Also, is it a normal practice to pay the entire amount up front?

 

Please help me on what I should ask the doctor on the day of the surgery in terms of the closure technique in the donor area (dissolvable suture, etc.) or anything that I should make sure before the procedure.

 

This site is a wealth of information and my thanks to all of you who are contributing to it.

 

Regards.

MAK

[nobuzz4me]

MAK,

 

I have had a consult and am scheduled for Jan 11th with him. I checked with Pat (who moderates this site) and he says that Vogel does very good work but just does not like to do large sessions (this is one of the requirements to become part of the coalition). Many docs do this for various reasons, they may feel dense packing is risky to the grafts or more risk of shockloss, tension issues with the scar, limited staff, etc.

 

With Vogel, it is not staff size or ability, I sensed it was some of the other reasons, being more conservative. He does Tricho closure on the scar which is up to date with the best. As far as pricing he is above average and as you know hard to book with. I take that as a good sign. I checked and could not find any lawsuits against him or any negative feedback about him.

 

I am OK with his business procedure and did not feel pressured at all to sign up. I trust you will not lose your money.

 

Good Luck with your upcoming surgery,

[the B spot]

Glad you are using the site as a research center.

 

Dr. Vogel does do good work, but as a fellow NW 5, I caution you that 1500 grafts will do almost nothing for you.

 

You are going to need 3000+ grafts to see any real cosmetic difference.

 

Now, here is the hard part------

 

2000 grafts at 4.50 for Shapiro, Hasson, Wong, Etc.. Etc... is 9000.00

 

Thats 500 more grafts in the hands of three of the BEST HT docs in the world for 500 more dollars.

 

Now, let's look at a 3000 graft session with Shapiro, Hasson or Wong

 

9000 for the first 2000 grafts

 

Then, 2500 for the other 1000 grafts.

 

The prices may be a tad different, BUT, 11-12000

 

for a 3000 graft session with one of these 3 Docs

 

VS. Vogel

1500---8500

1500---8500

===== 17,000!

 

Pick one of 3 Coalition Docs regarded as the finest in the world for 11-12 Grand for 1 3000 graft surgery?

 

or

 

Break it up into two sessions to pay an extra 5000 to a Dr that isn't in the Coalition #1

REFUSES to update technologically and staff wise

and in general simply likes to work about 4 to 6 hours a day for surgery because these larger sessions a HIGHLY labor intensive and many Docs make more money over charging people like yourself.

 

The BS about being is conservative on a NW5 is getting old.

 

I am tired of good people handing over money to these guys who just won't bring it up to date!!!!!

 

Also, doing 3000 grafts on a NW5 is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A DENSE PACK!

You will not compromise vascularity, bleeding will be controlled, trauma to the scalp will be minimized by smaller incisions, etc, etc, etc....

 

Hope this helps you change your mind and stops you from wasting an entire year waiting for 1500 grafts to grow.

[bayscholar]

Mak,

 

I second all of B-spots comments as a fellow NW5+, he is giving you invaluable information & advice from some one who has traveled the path you seek.

[nobuzz4me]

B Spot,

 

As always, you bring it strong which I like.

 

I am not defending Vogel or any other Doc who has a more conservative approach. I think several guys on board I read have gone to Feller since they felt Bernstien was too "conservative".

 

Mega sessions require more donor tissue removed. Granted, some guys will be better candidates, with more laxity and donor density but would you agree there is a greater risk to scar stretching with mega sessions?

[the B spot]

Thanks Buzz, do NOT mean to quash you or your excitement over following through with your HT buddy!!!!!!

 

Here is what I think about people like you and me: We are NOT interested in shaving our heads anymore, right? So when we do a large session in order to reach our goals, is it really THAT important to have a tiny, tiny scar, or is it important to know that your Doc (who consistantly produces GREAT results) will get you a really good .5 to 1.5 mm scar without any discoloration or ridging?

That is a scar that is EASILY hidden under a #3 or #4 guard haircut.

 

In addition, in your case a 3000 graft session will most likely mean that your incision will simply be extended to the sides and increased by .25 of a cm. I am of average density and my 28 cm long 1.25cm wide strip yielded 3000 grafts. Dr. Vogel will take a 1cm wide strip that is 15 to 17 cm long.

There would be the same risk of stretching or scarring in this case as doing a 3000 session because in reality you are not going much wider .25cm than the 1500 session, just a longer strip (13 to 15 cm longer)

 

That is why I react to some doctors using what amount to scare tactics (under the guise of conservative) to force hard working people like yourself to pay a PREMIUM for their services, which is completely ridiculous.

You are paying over 5.50 a graft for a Doc not in the top 10, AND, scheduled to do it TWICE!

 

After you complete your 2 1500 graft session, over the next 2 years, you will still need at least another 1500 to 2000 grafts to satisfy you completely. That will be a 3rd surgery of 8500 and a 3rd year of down time.

 

3 sessions with Dr. Vogel(4500-4800 grafts)

= 25,500 and 3 years of down time

 

2 sessions with TOP DOC X= (4500-6000 grafts)

18250- 24,000 and 2 years of down time.

 

If you notice, even the 6000 graft total is STILL cheaper than 4500 grafts with Dr. Vogel.

 

Trust me when I say that the difference between 4500 and 6000 grafts is HUGE.

 

This is all for you my man.

 

Plus I have a certain affinity for being a pain in the ass

 

But really Buzz, 1 3000 graft session and a 2000-2500 session or 2 3000 graft sessions or 2 2500 graft sessions with a Shapiro, Hasson, Wong, Rahal, Epstein, etc.. etc.. will produce markedly better results in a shorter period of time, and is cheaper.

 

Take my advice with a grain of whatever

All I ask think about it before you do it.

 

At least you will be a FULLY informed patient making a FULLY informed decision!

 

Good Luck!!!

 

PS. I am editing this to point my comments toward Mak who is actually scheduled these surgeries and to simply give additional comments in response to Buzz!!!!!!

[nobuzz4me]

B,

 

Thanks for the response, the scar stuff scares me even though as you guessed (note my alias), I am not ever going to buzz it short. I have a bit of a baby face which looks much better with hair above it! Good point on the length of the strip vs width, still scary though to think of those 2cm wide jobs!

 

I by no means have scheduled two surgeries and have no qualms with going to someone else. This year as it turns out between kids home for college, familt etc., I have to fit it into a certain date and cannot travel. Vogel is my best option and I need to get started. Next year will be different and I may do a large session with someone like Feller or Shapiro. I am not locked in for two sessions and price is not my biggest concern although nobody likes to throw money away. I am in this for the long term so a two year stint doesn't bother me.

 

Check out my photo album and give me your opinion (which I value, the hard, honest truth) of what you consider, dense packing, strengthen temples or corners, mid scalp, etc.

Vogel wants to resore the forelock and add density on top. He is throwing in some minor plug reduction at no extra.

 

Thanks for your insights,

[the B spot]

Buzz, sending you a PM in a few minutes.

[hairbank]

MAK-

 

I really don't have much to add and agree with B-spot's post. If you're a NW 5 you need grafts..........and lots of them! Why do it in two sessions if you can do it in one? Less costly, heal once instead of twice, get the results quicker.............plus, if you get a second procedure and they harvest your old scar (they should) you'll be waisting some precious grafts..........maybe as many as 500 or so.

 

Anyhoo...............best of luck with your research and decision. Don't let location determine who does your HT. Most times, the clinic will pay for most or all of your airfare and a place to stay. Your results are for life so do what is best for YOU!

[mak]

Thank you B, Buzz, Bayscholar and Hairbank for your input. Interesting points from Buzz and B on the small sessions Vs one big session. I guess if you already got your hands dirty, why not go the extra mile and try for more grafts instead of having to go through the entire routine one more time. I was hoping to do one mega session because I may be travelling out of country for couple of years. I am little bit disheartened to note that I am not going to see much of a difference from 1500 grafts. I understand there wouldn't be the desired thickness - but there has to be some difference though.

 

Thanks.

MAK

[FacelessMan]

MAK,

 

I'd second the emotions of...

 

* At "NW5" stage, even 3000 grafts might not give you as much as you'd like (do you have photos?)...depending of course on your hair color and other characteristics.

 

* Numbers don't lie (well, maybe not in this particular context)...for the price you got, you can get far more hair "redesigned" with a clinic that -- no offense whatsoever to Dr. Vogel -- has many, many photos of its patients available on this and other forums, and the reputation to go with them.

 

* With respect to megasessions...the term varies, I suppose, from person to person/doctor to doctor, but in my case, at least, I started at NW...maybe 3V or 4, I don't know exactly...and got 4200 grafts in one day, with Dr. Feller, who has a relatively small clinic; what he did was have his techs come in in shifts, and of course does only one patient per day. My point being, every doctor of course has his or her style and preference, in terms of how many grafts to do in a session, but I don't think that the size of a given clinic necessarily determines the size of the session.

 

* Keep in mind, not to restate the obvious, that each session means another round of shots, another cut into your donor area, another recovery period. To an extent, this is about your personal level of patience, but perhaps a doctor can weigh in here on the multiple-incision aspect. I do remember Dr. Feller posting, somewhere, that he prefers to do an HT in one session, where in the best interests of the patient, for partly that reason.

 

In general...I'd say, at the very least, get some other opinions; talk to patients, talk to Jotronic and Spex and other consultants, who are generous with answering questions about their own questions and about the clinics they represent. If you are looking at Dr. Vogel because you're in/near MD, I'd say, definitely don't let the geography be a factor...this is after all a big decision..and you have the advantage that in NYC you have several excellent options, none of which would require an insane level of expense. I'd be glad to share any tips on travel/hotels you may desire.

 

Good luck in your search! Ask any more questions, anytime...

 

Benjamin

[mak]

Thanks Benjamin for your input. I will post my before pictures in a few days.

 

Mak

[mak]

Guys,

Finally I have my HT scheduled with Dr.Vogel tomorrow. Hope things go well. After couple of weeks I will post my experience with my first HT. Unfortunately, I was not able to post my front and back pictures because the file sizes are big.

 

Regards,

MAK

[mak]

Here is the front picture.

[mak]

Here is the back picture.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Mak,

 

Good luck to you.

 

Bill