Scar Shock Loss - A Question for The Veterans

[Neil Nelson]

Gentlemen,

 

I am seeking feedback from fellow veterans of surgery on this site, some of whom I note are very knowledgeable about the after-effects of HT procedures.

 

You may have noticed I recounted my very positive experience with Dr Jeff Epstein in Miami around Christmas time in a thread elsewhere on the forum, and I should say at the outset that nothing has changed my perception of Dr E being one of the world's best HT surgeons.

 

Thanks to his skill the healing process has been very rapid, following 2000 FUT's to the hairline and frontal regions and donor scar repair from much earlier punch grafting. The new scar itself (ear to ear) is already barely visible in places.

 

However, I have been in consultation with Dr E recently regarding my concerns about what appears to be quite substantial shock loss around the scar, particularly below the scar. This coincides with reddened skin in those areas of hair-fall.

 

Dr E is currently evaluating some photos I have sent him of the scar area to confirm this is simply a case of more severe shock loss than is normal, but at the same time I thought I might post the same pictures here and ask if any of the resident veterans experienced, or know of similar scale of shock loss, if that indeed is the issue.

 

With apologies for some over-exposure in at least one of the shots:

 

Scar Shot 1

 

Scar Shot 2

 

Scar Shot 3

 

Scar Shot 4

 

What concerns me is that, in at least two places, the bald patches feel totally smooth, as though there are no hair roots at all in the skin - almost as though I would imagine alopecia would look and feel.

 

I must repeat again, in no way do I put this down to Dr E's work directly. The donor scar itself looks to be a work of art to my untrained eye.

 

However it would be good to hear from anybody with stories of similar experiences, who may be able to reassure me that my situation is not uncommon and will resolve over time. Indeed, you may be able to tell me that what I consider to be severe hair-fall is not actually so severe at all, relatively speaking.

 

I should add I am currently exactly 6 weeks post op.

 

Any replies from anyone willing to share their experience and put my concerns in context would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Neil Nelson

[Neil Nelson]

Gentlemen,

 

I am seeking feedback from fellow veterans of surgery on this site, some of whom I note are very knowledgeable about the after-effects of HT procedures.

 

You may have noticed I recounted my very positive experience with Dr Jeff Epstein in Miami around Christmas time in a thread elsewhere on the forum, and I should say at the outset that nothing has changed my perception of Dr E being one of the world's best HT surgeons.

 

Thanks to his skill the healing process has been very rapid, following 2000 FUT's to the hairline and frontal regions and donor scar repair from much earlier punch grafting. The new scar itself (ear to ear) is already barely visible in places.

 

However, I have been in consultation with Dr E recently regarding my concerns about what appears to be quite substantial shock loss around the scar, particularly below the scar. This coincides with reddened skin in those areas of hair-fall.

 

Dr E is currently evaluating some photos I have sent him of the scar area to confirm this is simply a case of more severe shock loss than is normal, but at the same time I thought I might post the same pictures here and ask if any of the resident veterans experienced, or know of similar scale of shock loss, if that indeed is the issue.

 

With apologies for some over-exposure in at least one of the shots:

 

Scar Shot 1

 

Scar Shot 2

 

Scar Shot 3

 

Scar Shot 4

 

What concerns me is that, in at least two places, the bald patches feel totally smooth, as though there are no hair roots at all in the skin - almost as though I would imagine alopecia would look and feel.

 

I must repeat again, in no way do I put this down to Dr E's work directly. The donor scar itself looks to be a work of art to my untrained eye.

 

However it would be good to hear from anybody with stories of similar experiences, who may be able to reassure me that my situation is not uncommon and will resolve over time. Indeed, you may be able to tell me that what I consider to be severe hair-fall is not actually so severe at all, relatively speaking.

 

I should add I am currently exactly 6 weeks post op.

 

Any replies from anyone willing to share their experience and put my concerns in context would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Neil Nelson

[Telephone Man]

It seems that shock loss both in the donor and recipient areas is a topic with a lot of unknowns and very difficult or impossible to predict. My personal experience was very limited loss anywhere. There are a lot of posts on this site and others about shock loss, I have not read any that were permanent so hopefully time and the propecia will bring back.

 

Good luck!

[Robert_]

Neil,

 

Wow, that is rough, man. The loss seems to stretch upwards of a cm above and below the scar.

 

I can't say that I have had the same problem as you, but I am grateful to you for sharing your experience on the forums.

 

Everyone heals and reacts to the invasiveness of surgery differently. I am also happy that you are still consulting with Dr. Epstein concerning this issue. I wish you my utter best in getting it resolved. I am really hoping for you that this is a temporary issue.

 

-Robert

[Neil Nelson]

Robert,

 

Thank you to you and Telephone Man for your replies.

 

What I take from them is that I'm not over-reacting to the scale of loss around the scar.

 

Quite obviously it's not the norm.

 

The irony is, the scar line is healing beautifully, and were it not for this residual hair fall, it would be pretty much invisible already, after only six weeks.

 

I can only repeat that I attach no blame to Dr E for this issue - it looks like a case of my scalp's reaction to surgery, which could have not have been anticipated.

 

I guess it's possible it could be a complication arising from the repair of my original scarring from earlier surgery.

 

Whatever, it's obviously a waiting game.

 

Hopefully Dr E will come back very quickly with his assessment of the photos (he has always been very prompt and direct with his answers to my emails.) I suspect he'll tell me it's a severe case of shock loss and we have to wait and see how it recovers.

 

I'll post an update when I've heard back from Dr E if anyone is interested, and in the meantime if any more of the forum regulars would care to give me their thoughts, I'd be very grateful.

 

Regards,

 

Neil

[Phillyhair]

Hey Neil

Hope you're doing fine.

I saw the pictures you posted. And to tell you the truth, from all the research I have on Hair transplant, Hair loss in teh donor site is the least topic I researched. But it seems that it is very dependant on each person's recation and healing. Would be very interested to see What Dr.. E says.

I have not had shock loss in the donor area and the scar is barely visible, although the transplanted hair have almost all fell out, with the exception of I would say 15%.

Happy healing and hope everything works out for the best. Keep us posted with your results.

[Phillyhair]

By the way...

Is teh shock loss around the new scar or even around the older ones

[Neil Nelson]

Hey Philly,

 

Saw your recent picture in the other thread. Sounds like you've experienced what we all go through, with shock loss in the recipient region, although it seems to have happened quite late in your case.

 

I know you'll be pretty relaxed about that, and you and I only have about 6 weeks to go now before we should start to see some real grow-back.

 

In answer to your question, my donor hair loss doesn't appear to be connected to my previous scars. From what I can see, I'm like you - the new scar from Dr E is barely visible already, and seems to have excised most of the original scarring in that area.

 

Dr E didn't catch it all, but I wouldn't have expected that - after four earlier procedures there was no way he could have removed all the scarring in one excision.

 

So my answer is no, it looks to be a case of trauma loss. But we'll wait to see what Dr E thinks. Hopefully in the next few days.

 

I'll post again as soon as I've heard from him.

 

Best wishes,

 

Neil

[JacobS]

Neil- It's only 6 weeks so you need to suspend your critical eye for the next 3/ 4 months. This is really the worst time to start second guessing. You know the answer will be wait and see. Quite frankly there is no other option.

 

Be fair to yourself and your doctor.

 

Best

 

Jacob

[Neil Nelson]

Jacob,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Let me be clear. I've said repeatedly on this thread that I don't imply any criticism of my doctor, quite the opposite in fact. It's my issue.

 

Yes, it'll be wait and see, but the waiting will be easier if I can put my current condition in context.

 

I'm simply asking if anyone else here has experience of similar shock loss, and if so, what was the extent of their recovery over what period.

 

Just expectation setting, if possible, not a judgement of my surgeon, who has been superb throughout.

 

Regards,

 

Neil

[JacobS]

Neil- You are correct. I had no right to chime in with the response I offered. My apologies.

 

Jacob.

[Neil Nelson]

Jacob,

 

Not at all, and please don't apologise.

 

Your input added value - I infer from what you are saying that six weeks out is a bad time to be projecting how the final result might look in the donor area, and I might well see significant improvement in the next 3-4 months.

 

And that helps a lot, by giving me hope.

 

Thanks again for your time.

 

Best regards,

 

Neil

[hairworthy]

Quite frankly, I don't see what the problem is. Seeing these pics, your shock loss is not half as bad as mine was, and I had it all along the scar, not in specific areas. Took well over 3 months for everything to regrow in that area, and probably thanks to MSM. And yes my scalp felt smooth and hairless too. So be patient! Unfortunately that's one of the psychological consequences of an HT: you look in the mirror every single day, don't see any change or any growth & start worrying. Your choice of doc was excellent & I'm sure your results will be too. Let's talk about this again in 2 months shall we?

[Neil Nelson]

Quite frankly, I don't see what the problem is. Seeing these pics, your shock loss is not half as bad as mine was, and I had it all along the scar, not in specific areas. Took well over 3 months for everything to regrow in that area, and probably thanks to MSM. And yes my scalp felt smooth and hairless too. So be patient! Unfortunately that's one of the psychological consequences of an HT: you look in the mirror every single day, don't see any change or any growth & start worrying. Your choice of doc was excellent & I'm sure your results will be too. Let's talk about this again in 2 months shall we?

Hairworthy, thanks.

 

You've posted a tough-worded message, but exactly the one I needed to hear. You've put my concerns in context, which is the value of this site at its best.

 

I'm utterly convinced my choice of doctor was excellent, and Dr E has come back to me with these words:

 

"Neil- I do believe that this is a case of shock loss, as I know that the hairs in

the area were not damaged. I recommend you apply minoxidil to the areas

once daily, and let's see how soon the hairs in the area start to regrow."

 

Taken with the feedback from you and others on this thread, that's good enough for me.

 

BTW, I assume MSM is Maximum Strength Minoxidil?

 

Thanks again.

[Reverse the Curse]

neil

you can get MSM in health food stores, it is not minoxidil. it also speeds up the growth of your nails. most posters seem to use 3000 mg daily & i know someone who takes 6000 mg. it only works on growth, not density or regrowth.

rtc

[Neil Nelson]

neil

you can get MSM in health food stores, it is not minoxidil. it also speeds up the growth of your nails. most posters seem to use 3000 mg daily & i know someone who takes 6000 mg. it only works on growth, not density or regrowth.

rtc

RTC, thanks.

 

I didn't know that, but now I do I'll track it down. Sounds like it'll be of benefit right now.

 

Thanks again - appreciate your help.

 

Regards,

 

Neil

[paris_caine]

Hi there Neil,

i am no veteran, but i have navigated many forums, talked to many people and yes i have heard about donor shock loss, and quite severe in some cases, but reversible, mostly.

i will agree with someone who said earlier that the smartest thing you are doing is keeping your doc aware of each and every thing.

 

best of luck.

 

paris.

[hairworthy]

Neil, that's a good one. No, actually it stands for Maximum Strength Manhood. My current wife has been complaining about my lack of sex drive lately so I have decided to do something about it.

 

More seriously, run a search on MSM (Methyl Sulfanyl Methane) & start taking it asap. It really did help me (still does). 3g (or 3000mg as my less math-literate colleagues call it) daily & watch your hair - and nails - grow.

 

Dr E is a good guy, and we like the same part of the Sunshine State (my house's in Fort Lauderdale) so he's got good taste too!!

[hairworthy]

Neil,

Check your mailbox, I'll send you a PM with the link to a UK website where you can order MSM. Delivered to your home within days & cheap.

I do live in Surrey but I travel extensively due to my job. Used to work in Fort Lauderdale (well, actually spent half the month there & the other half in Nassau) until 2001.

My house there is rented out for the moment, since I'm not using it.

Dunno about the current legislation. A few years back you were allowed, as a non-US citizen, to spend 6 months per year in the country provided you owned a place there & could prove you were self-sufficient. I have a work permit so it's not a problem for me.

[Neil Nelson]

Neil,

Check your mailbox, I'll send you a PM with the link to a UK website where you can order MSM. Delivered to your home within days & cheap.

 

H, sorry for the belated reply - been offline for a couple of days. Got your mail, many thanks. I've not yet mastered how to reply by PM but I've managed to take a look at the order form and will get things moving this weekend. Really appreciate your help - thanks again.

 

One final question, if I may. Do you use MSM as a substitute for Minoxidil? Dr E is big on using Regaine to encourage recipient hair growth, and has advised me to use it in the donor area as you saw above.

 

I'm happy to do that, but Minox seems to get a mixed press on here, and I wondered if the consensus was either Minox or MSM, or both.

 

Regards.

[Robert_]

MSM is not a substitute for minoxidil. MSM is a supplement that is widely regarded for helping to ease pain and stiffness in joints. Many bodybuilders take it for this reason.

 

It also speeds up the growth of hair and nails since all of these are made up of similar materials.

 

You can find it in any health food stores, vitamin shops, or grocery stores here in the U.S. but I cannot say for sure about the U.K.

 

-Robert

[Neil Nelson]

MSM is not a substitute for minoxidil. MSM is a supplement that is widely regarded for helping to ease pain and stiffness in joints. Many bodybuilders take it for this reason.

 

It also speeds up the growth of hair and nails since all of these are made up of similar materials.

 

You can find it in any health food stores, vitamin shops, or grocery stores here in the U.S. but I cannot say for sure about the U.K.

 

-Robert

Robert, thanks for that. It's useful info.

 

I'll keep using the Minoxidil as directed by Dr E, and get the MSM sorted this weekend.

 

Dr E wants me to apply Minox once a day to the donor area, but my hair is so long there now that I'm having to ask my wife to do the necessary from behind.

 

She's already got out a pair of rubber gloves at the ready. Maybe I should clarify just exactly what it is I'm asking her to do...

 

Neil

[Robert_]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Robert, thanks for that. It's useful info.

 

I'll keep using the Minoxidil as directed by Dr E, and get the MSM sorted this weekend.

 

Dr E wants me to apply Minox once a day to the donor area, but my hair is so long there now that I'm having to ask my wife to do the necessary from behind.

 

She's already got out a pair of rubber gloves at the ready. Maybe I should clarify just exactly what it is I'm asking her to do...

 

Neil

 

 

It took me reading this twice to get it. haha. Now that is truly funny.

 

-Robert

[Neil Nelson]

Originally posted by hairworthy:

Neil,

Check your mailbox, I'll send you a PM with the link to a UK website where you can order MSM. Delivered to your home within days & cheap.

QUOTE]

Hairworthy,

 

Picked up a 120-capsule bottle of MSM from the local Holland and Barratt health shop this weekend.

 

Cost just under ??6 for what's effectively a month's supply on 3g per day. I think that compares reasonably with the internet contact you gave me.

 

Started taking straight away, and the wife is applying Dr E's prescribed 1ml of Minox directly to the donor shock loss area, so we'll see where we go from here.

 

I'll report back in the next month or so.

 

Thanks again for your support - it's been a big help on the mental side of things.

[Smoothy]

Shock loss occurs sometimes and not others-- a same patient might experience it on 1 HT then not on the next-- it various. But Shock loss on both donor and recepient areas come back if the hair that fell out was NOT in the final growth phase (was going to fall in in the next few months anyway). The time frame varies as well for shock loss to grow back- sometimes it starts by month 3 other times maybe 6 months.