Senior Member arfy Posted June 9, 2002 Senior Member Share Posted June 9, 2002 This is dedicated to Jebster. He says that the reason that people like me say words of warning about Hair Transplants, is because we are "bitter" because we "didn't research our surgeon enough". So lets discuss the issue of credentials. Here's your chance to show how easy it is to "do your homework". Okay, then. Look at these credentials and vote, to say whether these two doctors look legitimate and trustworthy. Just for argument's sake, lets say both doctors' consultants look great, and they both showed you some really nice looking photos as well. Who is worth your time? Do your homework, and vote on "Dr. X" and "Dr. Y" Which one is a good choice or bad choice? I've taken all information from the doctors' own websites. I've left out any local credentials that might be a giveaway. And it's possible that one or both doctors might do all their own consultations, but since some people claim this isn't an issue, I'm not telling. No more clues! Ready? Research the surgeons, and don't be bitter if you lose! "Dr. X" Dr X is "dedicated" to providing the highest quality results available. Patients travel from all over the US to see him. Dr. X has specialized exclusively in hair restoration surgery since the early 90's. Since that time he has performed over 3,000 procedures. He is one of the first doctors to become board certified by the American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery. (ABHRS) He was the Medical Director of a group of 13 clinics. During that time he trained numerous physicians and surgical assistants his methods of hair restoration. Dr.X has also trained doctors from several foriegn countries. Memberships: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>Diplomate-American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery Diplomate-American Board of Emergency Medicine, 1989-1999 International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (member) European Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (member) American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery (Board of Directors) Over 20 different lecures at various international hair transplant conferences Several articles published in "Hair Transplant Forum" _________________________ "Dr. Y" Dr. Y has performed over 30,000 hair transplant procedures. Dr. Y is Board Certified by the American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery. Dr. Y ran a training program for Dermatology residents, at a major hospital, in hair restoration surgery. Dr. Y has had articles published in "Dermatologic Surgery" and the "American Journal of Cosmetic Surgery". Dr. Y was the "featured speaker" at an International Hair Transplant conference. Dr. Y has appeared on TV several times, to discuss the finer points of hair transplantation. Memberships: <UL TYPE=SQUARE> American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery (Board certified) American Hair Loss Council (National Medical Director) American Hair Loss Council (Board of Directors) American Medical Association (member) American Academy Of Cosmetic Surgery (Full Fellow) American Society Of Hair Restoration Surgery (Charter Member) International Society Of Hair Restoration Surgery (Active Member) American Society For Dermatologic Surgery (Member) Inter-American Society Of Plastic & Reconstructive Surgeons (member) ____________________ Okay, one of these doctors might be top-notch, and one of these doctors might be really bad. Or they might BOTH be really good, or both really bad! Who is who? Vote! No Cheating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted June 9, 2002 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 9, 2002 This is dedicated to Jebster. He says that the reason that people like me say words of warning about Hair Transplants, is because we are "bitter" because we "didn't research our surgeon enough". So lets discuss the issue of credentials. Here's your chance to show how easy it is to "do your homework". Okay, then. Look at these credentials and vote, to say whether these two doctors look legitimate and trustworthy. Just for argument's sake, lets say both doctors' consultants look great, and they both showed you some really nice looking photos as well. Who is worth your time? Do your homework, and vote on "Dr. X" and "Dr. Y" Which one is a good choice or bad choice? I've taken all information from the doctors' own websites. I've left out any local credentials that might be a giveaway. And it's possible that one or both doctors might do all their own consultations, but since some people claim this isn't an issue, I'm not telling. No more clues! Ready? Research the surgeons, and don't be bitter if you lose! "Dr. X" Dr X is "dedicated" to providing the highest quality results available. Patients travel from all over the US to see him. Dr. X has specialized exclusively in hair restoration surgery since the early 90's. Since that time he has performed over 3,000 procedures. He is one of the first doctors to become board certified by the American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery. (ABHRS) He was the Medical Director of a group of 13 clinics. During that time he trained numerous physicians and surgical assistants his methods of hair restoration. Dr.X has also trained doctors from several foriegn countries. Memberships: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>Diplomate-American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery Diplomate-American Board of Emergency Medicine, 1989-1999 International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (member) European Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (member) American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery (Board of Directors) Over 20 different lecures at various international hair transplant conferences Several articles published in "Hair Transplant Forum" _________________________ "Dr. Y" Dr. Y has performed over 30,000 hair transplant procedures. Dr. Y is Board Certified by the American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery. Dr. Y ran a training program for Dermatology residents, at a major hospital, in hair restoration surgery. Dr. Y has had articles published in "Dermatologic Surgery" and the "American Journal of Cosmetic Surgery". Dr. Y was the "featured speaker" at an International Hair Transplant conference. Dr. Y has appeared on TV several times, to discuss the finer points of hair transplantation. Memberships: <UL TYPE=SQUARE> American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery (Board certified) American Hair Loss Council (National Medical Director) American Hair Loss Council (Board of Directors) American Medical Association (member) American Academy Of Cosmetic Surgery (Full Fellow) American Society Of Hair Restoration Surgery (Charter Member) International Society Of Hair Restoration Surgery (Active Member) American Society For Dermatologic Surgery (Member) Inter-American Society Of Plastic & Reconstructive Surgeons (member) ____________________ Okay, one of these doctors might be top-notch, and one of these doctors might be really bad. Or they might BOTH be really good, or both really bad! Who is who? Vote! No Cheating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member JEBSTER Posted June 10, 2002 Regular Member Share Posted June 10, 2002 Which catagory did the surgeon that butchered you fit into? Dr.X or Y! Did you truly check out your surgeon or did you think you had covered your bases. For instance, did you meet with his patients and run your fingers through their transplanted hair. Did you call and talk to several more of his clients and then go and witness firsthand a procedure by the fellow himself. Or did you rely on his credentials and maybe a paper or two that he submitted! Or did you get a HT performed by someone who botched you and you are having problems forgiving yourself and therefore the industry is still somehow to blame! You have to forgive yourself and move on Arfy! Lets be honest, when we had our first few procedures the Inernet didn't have a great site like Pats to access so all we had was our instincts to go by. I lived in a world where seeing is believing and you never go by words alone! If you could touch it and see it up front and personal, then and only then, would you begin to trust it. My gut instincts served me well and I was able to get 5 HT procedures that have worked out very well and I am so happy I did it! Today, I am 4.5 mos post op from a FUT of 1500 plus that refined my hairline and I am thankful that this site and the internet along with all those marketing packages that are out there shed the light I needed for a more informed choice than just my on gut. However, I still ran my fingers through some hair and talked to some patients and coved all the bases! So, Mr. Arfy, WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION AGAIN!!! Jebster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted June 10, 2002 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 10, 2002 My surgeon is not listed here, Jebster. He is not "X" or "Y". When I had my procedures, I DID "listen to my gut". I also saw a list of impressive credentials. He looked like a great doctor. I got taken by a con man, Carlos Puig of Houston Texas. Take the test, "Chicken Little"! Trust your gut! Don't be bitter if you are wrong! Forgive yourself! Don't blame the industry if you are wrong! Isn't that your advice? Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Robert_ Posted July 6, 2005 Senior Member Share Posted July 6, 2005 Im resurrecting this thread from the long-dead because I think that the original poster was making a great point as well as the responder. Unfortunately, Arfy doesn't post here too often anymore and I don't believe that Jebster posts here at all. However, it certainly does raise the issue of who to trust in such an industry where rogue physicians can, basically, acquire all sorts of official-sounding titles for themselves that sound impressive but are worth little more than the ink printed on the certificate framed on their consulting room wall. To the unsuspecting hair loss sufferer that understandably trusts the "M.D." behind the name, the white lab coat, and the professional office, the very thought that a doctor of medicine can actually betray and decieve is shocking, if not downright apalling... ...but it happens. It happens more than we like to think about. The unfortunate nature of the situation is compounded by the very societal stigma that brought that hair loss sufferer into the office in the first place. We are conditioned by society to maintain silence through our ordeal; to "accept it," to "just shave it all off." So the patient suffers after his dismal procedure. He is confined to a hat if he is lucky enough to be able to wear one at work. If not, he either has to comb his hair this way or that to hide the pitting, the scarring, the large plugs planted unnaturally about his scalp. Sometimes, he resorts to a hair piece further perpetuating paranoia that the rest of the world will know his "secret." All of this could have and should have been avoided. While there will continue to be unethical physicians preying on the naivity of the "average" hair loss sufferer, those that take the time to research, to utilize these forums, to share their experiences are also perpetuating a more noble and more righteous movement: taking the industry by the reigns and demanding quality hair restoration surgery that utilizes the latest in meticulate graft slit incisions, precise donor area extraction, and clean, accurate, and natural recipient area graft placement. What do you think? Who of Dr. X and Dr. Y (if either) are trustworthy? Who would you trust your one and only scalp to? Who would you trust with your precious, limited donor area? From his post, he plucked the statistics right off of their very own websites. Would you trust your scalp to both? To either? -Robert ------------------------------ Check out the results of my surgical hair restoration performed by Dr. Jerry Cooley by visiting my Hair Loss Weblog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted August 19, 2005 Author Senior Member Share Posted August 19, 2005 Heh, you bumped my thread. I was trying to show that for the average "newbie" guy, trying to pick a good hair transplant doctor by using the same criteria you use to pick a 'regular' doctor just doesn't work!!! If you want your tonsils taken out, then you want a guy who's been taking out tonsils for a long time. You can ask your family doctor for a referral, and you will probably be in good hands. Those "common sense" requirements don't mean a thing, when you are looking for a hair transplant doctor!!! Some of the WORST hair transplant doctors have: - been doing hair transplants for a long long time - written their own book, or written lots of articles - belong to several impressive organizations, even holding "high office" - won "hair transplant awards of excellence" - appear on TV, newspapers or radio as official "experts" - etc NONE OF THESE MEAN A THING! In the "normal" medical world, credentials like that might be a sign of quality... not so, in the hair transplant field! It's like Bizarro World where the normal rules don't apply. Hey, I wonder where the Jebster is now? If I remember right, he was a big fan of the Minigraft (ugh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Robert_ Posted August 19, 2005 Senior Member Share Posted August 19, 2005 The point you made in that thread and the way you delivered it warranted its revival. I know what you mean about the industry being "bizarro world" in regards to the slouch doctors. The more you think about it, the more it really drives you crazy just trying to comprehend why a physician would refuse to adhere to the latest and best refined techniques. You would think that they would be hanging on every proven industry advancement waiting to jump on and improve their practice at nearly any cost. Laziness and greed can only go so far as reasons. It honestly borders on "evil" with some of those guys. -Robert ------------------------------ Check out the results of my surgical hair restoration performed by Dr. Jerry Cooley by visiting my Hair Loss Weblog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Follicular Slippage Posted August 22, 2005 Regular Member Share Posted August 22, 2005 I'm glad that this post was resurrected. It shows that in the case of this profession, certificates, professional memberships and even the number of HTs performed are all irrelevant!Ultimately, what counts is the results of the HT. I think this is what makes this profession so demanding - a doctor's work is judged constantly and they can't rest on their laurels. The technology changes and they must change with it to maintain professional quality and standards. Given such demanding professional challenges, it's no wonder that a number of doctors simply are not up to the task. FS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted August 25, 2005 Author Senior Member Share Posted August 25, 2005 By the way, I think it was a trick question. If I remember right, BOTH anonymous doctors I used for my example, were giving guys bad HT results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pat - Community Publisher Posted August 28, 2005 Administrators Share Posted August 28, 2005 As they say "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scounderal". So it is that "Credentials" and appointments are often the refuge of surgeons who actually provide subpare results. It's not the "talk" but the "walk" that we all need to fixate on. I suggest that no one commit to surgery before using this forum's "Find" feature to do a search on the physician's last name. As for our criterial for how doctors are selected for recommendation, click here. Never Forget - It's what radiates from within, not from your skin, that really matters! My Hair Loss Blog Sharing is what keeps this community vital. Please join in. To learn how I restored my hair and started this community, click here. Follow our Community on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted September 1, 2005 Author Senior Member Share Posted September 1, 2005 I just looked up who the doctors are, using their credentials. It turns out one of the doctors is a 'good guy' (Dr X, the first one) while the other doctor is a bad guy (Dr Y). Even though Dr Y is the "bad guy" it turns out that Dr Y actually has a longer list of credentials than the other doc. I originally wrote this so long ago, that even I couldn't recall which doctors I was referencing. The point remains the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member JohnH Posted September 2, 2005 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2005 With improving technology and techniques, saying that a doctor has done thousands of procedures doesn't mean much these days. I would be highly skeptical of a doc who has done 30,000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Ah crap....I was going to vote for Dr. X, but the last post by Arfy gave it away! This is a good thread, at the same time, I wouldn't choose either doc based on simply reading the specs above if I was actually going to "choose" a doc. I would have guessed Dr. X because of a gut feeling for some reason...and here are my reasons for the gut feeling: 1. People from all over the country came to see him. This signifies, if this is true, that he has a high reputation and people have seen his work and were happy with other patients work. Before I would actually choose this doc, I'd go hunt for some of these patients to see some realtime before/after pics NOT provided by the clinic but this was my first gut instinct. 2. Believe it or not, it struck me to choose this doc because he performed less hair transplants than the other guy. That may sound funny, but like Arfy said, more doesn't mean better. I think the second doc reminded me a lot of Bosley and MHR which is why I red flagged him based on the descriptions above. That was it actually...my only reasons. Turns out I would have been right, however, I really was hoping I had a chance to put this down before Arfy said which was which...lol. Of course, when I first started reading the thread, I thought it was a new post, not a revived old one. Either way, it's a great thread. Do your homework is the key...much more than just reading a docs website. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Jeffrey Epstein MD, FACS Posted September 5, 2005 Regular Member Share Posted September 5, 2005 Credentials do provide some degree of assurance of competency, but only those that hold relatively high credentialing standards- such as recognized medical boards like the American Board of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, and the American Board of Hair Restoration Surgery. However, you all have the most direct way to evaluate surgeons- just go on the websites, and look at actual photos. And not just 5 or 10 before and afters, but 50 or 100 or more, to get the very best picture of what the doctor is able to do. Artistry, professionalism, and commitment to patients is not something one can read from a list of credentials- it comes from seeing the doctor's work, hearing what other patients have to say about him, and speaking or emailing with the surgeon directly. Sincerely, Jeffrey Epstein, MD, FACS http://www.foundhair.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Tembo Posted September 9, 2005 Regular Member Share Posted September 9, 2005 Check out the section titled "The Surgery"! No mention of follicular units. And this is the American Society of Plastic Surgeons website!! [link removed by forum moderator - Robert] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mahair Posted September 9, 2005 Senior Member Share Posted September 9, 2005 They need to update their assessment of the *surgery*. Of course they have some guy smiling next to a girl.They do reveal the horseshoe approach to transplants though.Real informative "The first cut is the deepest." Cat Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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