My 2-day session with Dr. Sharon Keene (10/2 & 10/3/07)

[Furless]

1's: 297

2's: 1186

3's: 1382

4's: 999

Total grafts : 3864

Averaging 2.85 hairs/graft. Total hairs: ~11000.

 

 

 

[Furless]

1's: 297

2's: 1186

3's: 1382

4's: 999

Total grafts : 3864

Averaging 2.85 hairs/graft. Total hairs: ~11000.

 

 

 

[Furless]

I was in the middle of writing a very long detailed account of my experience, but I realized it really wasn't all that necessary

 

But there is one thing I have to write:

 

I had paid in advance for 4500 grafts and had encouraged Dr. Keene to harvest more if she could.

 

Well, she grafted 3864 - seems modest, but LOOK AT THE HAIR COUNT.

She refunded me not just the extra money I had paid, but she also has a policy of rounding DOWN to the nearest hundred.

So, I paid for 3800 grafts.

To add to the discounts, she pays for the blood tests + gives a $500 travel refund for out-of-state patients.

 

The point I am trying to make is that for this hair count, I could have easily been told that I got 4500+ grafts and I would have readily believed it.

I found this to be extra-ordinarily ethical, and I thought that this should be mentioned.

 

(TO BE VERY CLEAR: I am not trying to insinuate that other reputed clinics are not as ethical. I am just noting my positive experience with this clinic. I haven't dealt with any other clinic and hence am in no position to compare)

 

Dr. Keene said I have ~4000 donor grafts more in stock if needed for future, so I am extra relieved about that.

 

Well, here are my first few pictures, and I will try and post regular monthly updates.

 

Finally, do I need to say I love this forum?

You guys kick ass.

I don't know if I would have taken this step without all this knowledge out here.

Thank you all

 

Furless

[NervousNelly]

Sounds like you had a great experience as we all expect from Dr, Keene. Wow--11000 hairs. You'll be set with that. The work looks very refined and likely will be awesome in a matter of months.

 

NN

[the B spot]

That is an insane amount of 4 hair grafts.

 

25% of your total grafts are 4 hairs!

 

Anyway, the only drawback to this approach is 297 1 hair grafts(IMHO) it seems a bit unrefined---------- maybe splitting some of the 3-4 hair grafts for the hair line would have been ok in your case, but overall you look and sound great!

 

If/When you decide to go again, make sure you ask for a few more singles to feather the hairline (if needed of course)

 

Your a lucky guy my friend, you have got GREAT bundles of hair!!!!!

 

Now, sit back, relax and GROW!!!

 

Jason

[nobuzz4me]

B brings up a good point on the 1's used in the hairline. The result you should have will be quite dense and coverage should be excellent due to those hair numbers! Heal well!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Furless,

 

Congratulations on your surgery with Dr. Keene. From the pictures, I can see that you are going to be a hairy beast .

 

Dr. Keene has been known on our forum for her spectacular hairlines. That being said, I'd like to hear what she did in your case with such a small number of singles. Were any of the 3 and 4 hair grafts spilt to create additional singles for the hairline? Or did she create your hairline with 1s and 2s?

 

I hope you'll keeup us posted on your progress!

 

Bill

[scooping around]

Furless,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you the Asian guy that asked me for my pics because you've wanted to see how another Asian member's pics turned out? If so, I'm glad that you went with Dr. Keene as well. The receipient area turned out clean as usual with Dr. Keene's work. Be sure to keep up with updates of your growth with pictures.

[Gorpy]

It was Doctor Paul Shapiro who said,

"For most hairline cases I usually plant 300 - 400 one hair folliular unit grafts at the front of the hairline and 400 - 600 two hair folliular unit grafts in the transition zone to create the hair line."

 

So Furless' 297 is close enough. Dr. Keene tends to add a few more after she just quits counting and does her magic final touches on on the hairline. So she might have added a few more uncounted singles. In any case, I don't think we need question Dr. Keene's technique and ability to create a feathered hairline, do we?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Gorpy,

 

I appreciate your input on the hairline issue however, there is no need to take it personal. Nobody is questioning Dr. Keene's ability. You can even quote me above: "Dr. Keene has been known on our forum for her spectacular hairlines"

 

That being said, since you don't speak for the doctor, it would be better to hear directly from the patient or somebody from Dr. Keene's office directly.

 

If you are however, now working for Dr. Keene, please disclose this in your signature.

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

Knowing Doctor Keene from the feedback on here, I am sure it will look fabulous.

[Gorpy]

Bill you made me laugh. Do you really think I work for Dr. Keene?

 

It's just the way some people say things. For example:

 

"If/When you decide to go again, make sure you ask for a few more singles to feather the hairline (if needed of course)."

 

That just sounds a little silly to me. If, based on Dr. Paul Shapiro's statement about how many singles he uses for the hairline, I said - "BSpot, would you pass this along to Dr. Shapiro for me. 3 to 4 hundred singles for building a hairline sound a little unrefined to me. Could you start placing 5 to 6 hundred starting with your next patient (if needed of course)?

 

See how silly that sounds?

 

Gorp

 

disclaimer:

I do not get paid to endorse and/or promote any doctor. Nor do I perform experiments on watermelons in an effort to make myself appear to be a doctor while promoting a certain technique.

[NervousNelly]

Gorpy,

 

LOL. Did you quite your day job? Damn all you guys keep getting jobs and my only offer from Grace was quickly eliminated. I'm starting to get a little jealous.

 

I wonder if Bill was serious? We all know that you are a huge advocate of Dr. Keene but I personally believe that you are Dr. Keene. I think that the Gorpy character is just some bum off the street that she found soiling himself in Tequila and decided to use for forum advertising. One day he'll sober up and find himself with a better head of hair and possibly shy one kidney.

 

NN

[Furless]

I personally believe that you are Dr. Keene.

 

 

That's hilarious. But for the record, not once did Gorpy tell me to go with Dr. Keene. My choice was based solely on my research and the results I saw.

 

I will post details on the hair distribution shortly.

[Gorpy]

NN,

You know so much about me, it's down right SCARY! (play music from twilight zone).

[the B spot]

edit

[Bill - Seemiller]

Gorpy,

 

It does appear however, that you often take it personal when you feel Dr. Keene is being questioned, even innocently. I'm sure you are just a satisfied patient a bit defensive of their doctor, but I had to ask brother.

 

I think the question posed is a legitimate one.

 

B Spot,

 

Good discussion.

 

For 11,000 hairs and to get only 297 single grafts, SEEMED a bit unrefined, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

 

In general, I would agree unless these hairs were extracted as they occur naturally in follicular unit bundles. If single and double haired FUs ere converted to 3 and 4 haired grafts (DFU/MFU), a concern may be made that the result will look unnatural.

 

Ironically, it appears as 6 and one half, a dozen and the other. What does it really matter if FUs were combined or they were taken as naturally occuring FUs? What matters is, how it will blend with the rest of his hair in terms of naturalness. If this patient just happens to be rich full of 3 and 4 haired FUs, than splitting them apart (unless absolutely needed such as for the hairline) may not be in the patient's best interest. On the other hand, creating a number of DFUs may not be in a patient's best interest either in the even a hair transplant patient has mostly 1s and 2s.

 

In my opinion, there can cases made to legitimately split and combine.

 

All I really want to know in this case is whether or not there has been any combining of FUs or whether or not some of the FUs were split (yet not counted that way) to make additional single haired grafts for the hairline.

 

I also don't know if defining the word "refined" is done so appropriately by the number of hairs obtained in an FU graft, if it is indeed an FU graft and not a DFU acting as an FU.

 

Either way...I believe this patient will have a phenominal result.

 

Bill

[Gorpy]

The problem with BSpot's statement:

 

"If/When you decide to go again, make sure you ask for a few more singles to feather the hairline (if needed of course)"

 

is that it is NOT a question. The presumption is made that he NEEDS them. It's the way you stated it.

 

A better way to state a question would be:

 

"That seems like a very low single hair count. Could you ask your doctor how she was able to acheive a refined look in your hairline with a relatively low single hair count?"

[the B spot]

I editing this to say that we simply cannot have everything one way, that goes for me as well.

 

This is Furless thread and he should be happy with his results

[the B spot]

Originally posted by Gorpy:

The problem with BSpot's statement:

 

"If/When you decide to go again, make sure you ask for a few more singles to feather the hairline (if needed of course)"

 

is that it is NOT a question. The presumption is made that he NEEDS them. It's the way you stated it.

 

A better way to state a question would be:

 

"That seems like a very low single hair count. Could you ask your doctor how she was able to acheive a refined look in your hairline with a relatively low single hair count?"

 

Gorpy that is unfair. You asking me to censor my response in order to be more agreeable with what you feel is correct?

 

We question everything here, not just Dr. Keene.

 

I think I am well within my boundaries to point out a patient deviates from the norm with respect to his % of singles in relation to his overall hair count .027%.

 

Anyway, the overall result will look great.

 

Take Care,

Jason

[Bill - Seemiller]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

I agree with B Spot...this is Furless' thread. Let's give the attention back to him please.

 

All questions, comments, concerns, and compliments are all welcomed and encouraged.

 

I believe some legitimate questions were posed. Let's let either the hair restoration patient (Furless) or the hair restoration clinic (Dr. Keene or staff) address them.

 

Bill

[Jotronic]

The term "refined" can apply to any sized follicular unit, be it 1 or 4 hairs. The term refers to the amount of tissue that is left intact surrounding the follicle/s during the dissection process. One clinic's one hair graft may be chunkier or fatter than another clinic's four hair grafts.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe,

 

I agree especially since the size of the incision made is dependent upon the the size of tissue surrounding the hair graft - hence the terms "skinny" and "chubby" grafts.

 

See more about ultra refined follicular unit grafting and how recipient size relates.

 

Bill

[Furless]

The pictures admittedly don't do enough justice to the work. And it's perhaps too early to tell whether or not the hairline will look refined. Time will tell, but I am very hopeful.

 

This discussion has been educational to me, and I appreciate all the comments; but let's agree that this discussion is theoretical/hypothetical pending results. After all, the proof is in the pudding.

 

I am simply not trained/qualified enough to indulge in a technical debate on the advanced techniques in the field of hair restoration, but at the same time I might stop to question whether a one-size-fits-all rule such as "thou shalt graft X number of singles in the hairline for a session of size Y" always works best. B-spot said, I have "got great bundles of hair". Perhaps my great bundles needed a more tailored approach?

 

That is corroborated by Bill's comment below:

If this patient just happens to be rich full of 3 and 4 haired FUs, than splitting them apart (unless absolutely needed such as for the hairline) may not be in the patient's best interest. On the other hand, creating a number of DFUs may not be in a patient's best interest either in the even a hair transplant patient has mostly 1s and 2s.

 

 

Here is a summary of my discussion with the Dr. on this topic:

 

All of the singles were placed in the hairline.

As for the 2 hair grafts they were placed in the hairline behind the first 3 rows, and scattered with the 3-4 hairs throughout the rest of the transplant area.

 

Studies have apparently shown about 67% of hairs bundle as 1's and 2's in the donor area, where as the the frontal and midfrontal area contain more naturally occurring 3-4 hair groupings than occurs in the donor area.

So, using 3-4 hair groupings in frontal-mid frontal areas better mimics nature (and is easier on the wallet

 

There was no paucity of singles, rather they were combined with some of other singles to make 2's, and with some 2's to make 3's. Some of the 2's were combined to make 4's.

 

I trust that Dr. Keene decided on this approach because it perhaps best blends with the natural grouping/characteristics (henceforth known as "my great bundles" ) of my native hair.

 

I will be keenly observing my Keene hair grow

[Bill - Seemiller]

Furless,

 

Thanks for posting this information.

 

There was no paucity of singles, rather they were combined with some of other singles to make 2's, and with some 2's to make 3's. Some of the 2's were combined to make 4's.

 

Just for further clarification, was the hair count provided before or after FU grafts were converted to double follicular unit grafts?

 

After all, the proof is in the pudding.

 

I know a certain someone who used to say this often . I agree with this statement (I wonder why).

 

The surgical details certainly help gain an understanding of what one can expect from hair transplant surgery. Though it is fun to debate the logistics, grafts, and hair count breakdowns, the results are what matter which is what you will see around 12 months post op.

 

I have confidence in Dr. Keene's ability and I'm certain that you will have a nice head of hair!

 

Keep us posted,

 

Bill