FUE -- how honed and delicate can a surgeon's hands become...?

[TheEmperor]

You're comparing the entire body of work of strip vs a relatively new procedure performed by a few docs.

 

Prior to jotronic, there werent any impressive results, since him, there have been a good number that represent a tiny % of the total strip surgeries performed.

 

Given the smaller number of fue surgeries and the lower # grafts per session, I think it will be a long while before we see as many fue home runs.

 

Another thing I didnt realize prior to my surgery is that NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO PST THEIR RESULTS. Privacy concerns and other reasons.

 

I believe in another 6 months we will have 10 well documented fue patients. For every 1 that posts online, there are 100-1000 that do not post. At this point, their growth appears to be in the range for what is seen for strip.

 

Good luck in your research.

[notgoing2gobald]

The whole question is can one w/a considerable degree of hair loss (i.e. NW4+) achieve the same result w/FUE as strip.

*no one* can find 10 cases that satisfies the above conditions? If there aren't even 10 out there as *evidence* that FUE can be performed the way which you've laid out in this thread, then how can *anyone* keep an open mind about it and be objective?

Above, you said "Honestly, you need to beieve me, I'm not a FUE or AA cheerleader and I had dismissed FUE prior to choosing strip. Now that im looking for fue results I am finding them"

 

where are they?

*ten*...TEN?...C'MON, that is NOTHING!

I don't know why you believe in six months we will have documented results, Armani?

It just seems to me there is a lot of believing and hoping going on with nothing backing it up...

[thanatopsis_awry]

Look at the "master list" of Armani's FUE "superstars" around HLH.....there are maybe a handful that look good, and they are ~2500+ grafts on NW2s...conversely, many range from incredibly murky pic quality, blatent overquoting, an (unsurprising) lack of updates not showing a fully grown result, or downright putrid yield that any naked eye could see. No one denies that there won't be growth, the question is how much growth, and how consistently -- and above all else, the answers to these questions should be CRYSTAL CLEAR to each and every patient.

 

Then there is the fact that there should be a plethora of fully grown results *at this point*, as well as all the 5k+ cases or 10k total FUEs...yet every time people clamor for results it is met with "another month, another month"/"we'll get right on showing some of the multiple 10k+ cases we have done". Well, they did show one picture of a guy with ~10k FUE and it looked so horribly I think Shane stopped showing it after his excuses were quickly met with disbelief.

 

ALSO, Armani could shut me and many others up if he did even but one of the following: explained what revolutionary tool he is using or what revolutionary tecnique he is using....which have both evaded the minds and ears of brilliant docs everywhere. If you answer that Armani simply has such a superhuman ability and feel for FUE, then I would ask how so many of his underlings can also perform FUE-megas so routinely.

 

And if we are to grant that hype-machine incarnate that is Armani just so happens to be the one possessing such astounding ability, he should disclose the actual details of his practice -- not just for the sake of honest trasparency for patient benefits, but also to shut his detractors up and *truly* solidfy his standing as....The Master.

 

Let alone were he to allow an objective source to watch him extract those precious, ever-delicate follicles, in which case the entire issue would be put to rest....

 

Again, above all else, each and every patient of Armani's should have a true understanding of the +s and -s of FUE, what they should expect, and how consistently their expectations should be met....this includes FUE trauma, donor viablity (no more bullshit above "average" donors that would equate to every single person basically getting guaranteed a NicNitro max extraction or even better), yield, and what tools are being used.

 

Answers to these questions and concerns really coulda been easily handled long, long ago.....

[TheEmperor]

Answers to these questions and concerns really coulda been easily handled long, long ago.....

 

This really looks like mudslinging and scare tactics to me. The zeal with which the locals is posting here is starting to look uunprofessional and I dont want to get caught in the middle of a negative FUE vs. Strip battle.

 

I stopped posting on HLH because Farrell would not show his Wolf FUE results. I felt that was non-transparent and masked problems which he may have had.

 

The anti-FUE scare tactics on this forum appear to me just as negative. Given that there are maybe only ten fue cases being posted on the web at this time, it will be difficult to show the grown out results for a number of months.

 

Lets be patient and professional as we wait for the results to grow out. If in 6 months these guys are screaming that it didnt work, then lets reevaluate. Keep in mind that lots of strip guys complain that they didnt get the density they wanted, but this is usually played off as "hair greed". (The solution of course it to return for a follow up.) I'm not expecting to see any home runs because FUE session sizes are smaller, but I do expect we will see positive cosmetic improvement.

 

I'm not going to add any more to this thread. Good luck in your research. I think it will take another 3 years for FUE to be fully documented and another 5-7 for the "Fue renaissance" (which happend for strip almost 10 years ago) which will be marked by decreasing prices and improved yield. If you can wait 3-5 years then I would recommend you do so.

[notgoing2gobald]

This really looks like mudslinging and scare tactics to me. The zeal with which the locals is posting here is starting to look uunprofessional and I dont want to get caught in the middle of a negative FUE vs. Strip battle.

 

Seriously, I have no idea what is going on in your head to make you perceive things this way and express it in these terms.

 

#1 Everyone on this forum is here for the same purpose and that is to find *both* a method & a doctor that are a viable option for them.

#2 We *always* use evidence to conclude which doc and method are viable for us; and *pictures* are the evidence.

#3 This entire thread is about Armani's new *Mega* FUE claims.

#4 We are asking, as we *always* do, for pictures.

#5 There are *Zero*.

 

I can speak for myself when I say Im not viewing this as a FUE vs. Strip battle; it is not. What *is* in question is the new MEGA FUE. This is not personal. The above are the ways we always go about the business of evaluating doctors and their claims on this forum.

 

Before you stated:

"Now that im looking for fue results I am finding them."

Ok. Either somewhere along the way you forgot that this whole "debate" was over Mega FUE

-or-

you just simply aren't sharing the "fue results" you found w/us (?)...

 

you also said:

"I stopped posting on HLH because Farrell would not show his Wolf FUE results. I felt that was non-transparent and masked problems which he may have had.

The anti-FUE scare tactics on this forum appear to me just as negative. Given that there are maybe only ten fue cases being posted on the web at this time, it will be difficult to show the grown out results for a number of months."

 

Your *seriously* comparing someone intentionally NOT sharing pictures of their results w/us ASKING FOR *PICS* (?)...

 

I think it's rather ridiculous that you insist everyone keep an open mind, when all we are asking for are pics, as we *always* do. This same standard is applied to all docs on here, so I really don't know how your coming to the conclusions your drawing.

 

People on HLH have been asking for pics from Armani for over a *YEAR* now...He didn't just start doing this yesterday. Every time they ask, they say "oh in a few more months they will be up"...for a *YEAR*...and then here you too are giving the same justification that they just aren't grown out yet.

The *only* pics we have seen are *thin* and *weak* at best. Quite frankly, Im rather floored at your ability to maintain such an idealistic, borderline naive view, placing your trust in someone as questionable as Armani while at one and the same time accusing some of us on here as using scare tactics and mudslinging, for merely holding him to precisely the same standard we do every other surgeon on this forum (?)...

 

Given that everyone has been waiting for the Armani pics for a year now, how many more six month periods should we sit by, "open-minded," without passing judgement, and hold our breath?...

 

*Perhaps* the reason why there are ZERO Mega FUE pics anywhere from *any* docs, is for the same reason Feller gave: that FUE places excessive trauma to the donor area when compared to strip, making all subsequent procedures more difficult to successfully extract grafts.

The Evidence in favor of this argument is that there are NO Mega FUE from *anyone*...

[the B spot]

I don't want to be drawn into a doctor debate, but FUE works and works quite well, IMO.

 

I do not subscribe to doing fue mega sessions---I believe 1000-1500 grafts in one day is sufficient--- if you need more, schedule a second day of surgery.

 

Again--- I have said this before--- BOTH types of surgery have pro's and con's ---- but there are people who do NOT want a strip scar and those who do not really care about a strip scar.

 

There are those who want maximum yield, and those who will sacrifice a percentage of yield to forgo a strip scar.

 

To answer the original thread---it takes daily practice to get good at fue and build up speed and a surgical protocol to handle the larger sessions.

 

So yes, if a doc has the innate skill to do fue he/she will get better with time, IMO.

 

Jason

[thanatopsis_awry]

It should be "scare tactic" -- in that anyone going to Armani, let alone some 20 year old going for densepacked 1/3rd cm hairline job, should be very much scared until the points which I and NG2GB (among others) have *clearly* expounded upon are addressed, or they have at least reflected upon on by prospective patients themselves.

 

And it is "mudslinging" -- in the sense that until the aforementioned points are answered, Armani is running the operation that he is running, and it speaks for itself....I don't have to actually engage in mudslinging, reality speaks for itself once it is revealed.

 

I'm not trying to convince you, either, as apparently you want to believe what you want; and you can generalize an entire post in a few hyperbolic words. And I'm certaintly not spending my time analyzing and reflecting upon Armani's FUE operation because it gives me any benefit; anyone who knows me knows how much I care about finding the best, most viable solutions for people suffering MPB.

 

Nonetheless, Armani -- and FUE -- should be held to as high a standard as FUT and FUT docs who claim to be the best; and just because Armani represents the possibility of some pseudo-utopic future, doesn't mean we can just doggedly "hope" that he is right, and "hope" he has the best interest of patients at heart.

 

Anyways, I stand by my prior post 100%, and I put it out there to give additional perspective to prospective patients where transparency is so essential, in an unfortunately murky field; and I do hope for a day when my questions and concerns are put to rest and my suspicions are proved wrong.

[notgoing2gobald]

BTW---- (Fine Italian Hair Art Movie Enclosed)

 

http://www.alviarmanihairtransplant.com/aboutus/drarmanismessage.html

 

Armani has (drum roOooOOoOoOOoOOlLLLL...)

 

----SIXTEEN clinics world wide.

 

 

That is *SIXTEEN* clinics all of which perform Mega FUE!

We have not seen 1 single clear pic of a mega fue yet (?)...

There is one pic on that web page of a guy who had 4K done in one session via FUE,

but it is a blatant over kill of grafts as any other doc would only use 2K in that size of an area.

 

He makes the claim that they are using the "newest and latest technology"...hmmm...ok

then why hasn't there been a new patent out

on FUE tools? He would stand to make a ton of dough AND reserve the right to only use it at his clinics; rather odd. Also rather odd there are no clear pics of mega fue, and the quality of the pics are no where near the standards we get from other docs on here...Hmmmm...

 

 

People keep saying "he is only one clinic, lets wait"...well, there are SIXTEEN all over the damn world now.

Also, how do SIXTEEN docs now all of the sudden have the expertise to do Mega FUE when NOONE else in the world can do them?

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot my favorite QUOTES from the Italian Hair Art Movie:

"I use my background in both Roman and Italian art when creating hair lines."

-Armani

"A patient can look at the procedure almost like a holiday to a spa."

-Armani

 

 

BTW---isn't he middle eastern w/a real long name and changed it to Armani?

Now he is posing in Italy and comparing his "art" to the likes of DaVinci (?)...

PlEeZe---at *best* he's a slick used car salesman.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I just want to add my two cents on my opinion of FUE generally speaking.

 

I just want to first state that EVERY member is entitled to their opinion. Please feel free to continue to debate the topic, but let's not sling mud at members for sharing a different opinion.

 

Personally, I think members have a right to be skeptical of what they cannot see in consistent results, especially regarding the much overhyped "FUE Megasessions".

 

In my opinion, FUE (generally speaking) CAN be an effective hair transplant surgery for those who are qualified candidates and in the hands of a quality FUE physician. Though I know some clinics reject that only SOME are qualified, I have yet to hear any compelling evidence that FUE is the best avenue for ALL patients. There is also much controversy over growth yield in general, and even some of the most respected physicians as I've interviewed them, told me around 70%. Most of the elite surgeons performing FUE will agree (even if not with the percent) that the transection rate is much higher with FUE than with Strip.

 

Because FUE must be performed with delicate care due to the extra straining forces applied to the follicle during extraction, this leads to the question/problem of whether or not FUE megasessions for all are done by "brute force" which will significantly increase the transection rate, and then ultimately impact overall hair growth yield. Any surgeon can use the "brute force" method to accomplish FUE megasessions, but clearly this is not in the best interest of the patient.

 

I also believe the benefits of FUE are often oversold whereas the potential problems and risks are seldom mentioned. I have great respect for physicians like Dr. Feller who go to great lengths to describe not only the benefits but the potential problems with FUE.

 

The good news about FUE in general is that it provides patient with an alternative to strip surgery. Neither surgery is perfect and neither are without benefit and risk. The key is understanding the benefits and risks of each and selecting a physician who is 100% TRANSPARENT in their methods and is willing to openly discuss the risks as well as the benefits.

 

Bill

[notgoing2gobald]

Anyone watch the Fine Italian Hair Art Movie?

 

(two formulatic thumbs of Italian Hair Art Up!!)

 

http://www.alviarmanihairtransplant.com/aboutus/drarmanismessage.html

 

I didn't know that Da Vinci and other Italian artists, were scientific artists who---------------

"formulated FORMULAS, of THOUSANDS of YOUNG men, formulating MEASUREMENTS of hairLINE's... eyes should be and EARS should MEASURE beauty by which we can formulate hair line FORMULAS which formulate a BEAUTIFUL MAN...which features FORMULATE other formulas to have a FORMULA of *art* the BEAUTIFUL formula of hair"

 

HT's:

Art & Science via Davinci?

it's a first! Didn't know ht's were that old!

or there were *exact* measurements for Beauty!

lets formulate formulas to formulate artistic formulas of artistic forumulation!!!!

* KEY WORDS:---- FORMULA & ARTISTIC----------------------

**Key MISSING words: *anything* relative to the field...

 

Another favorite QUOTE:

"It is scalpel free, we do NOT *cut* the patient"

-Armani

[Guest Martin E.Tessler M.D.]

With the new techniques of donor area closure creating barely noticeable scars, I don't really understand the call for FUE extraction in large numbers. It is more expensive, more tedious, and has it's own downside in regards to donor area scarring and limiting the number of grafts that can ultimately be harvested. There are very definite indications for FUE, but they are few.