Jotronic

Troy, You are right on the money. If one is a candidate then a bigger procedure can be much more convenient with less overall scarring and less money forked out. I don't want everyone to think that EVERY patient will get 4000 or 5000 grafts. We will perform smaller procedures often but again the size of the procedure is relative to the area being addressed. Again, this is what works for us in our clinic.

Troy, I'm happy to answer any and all questions that I can. Like I said earlier, the docs didn't start doing this overnight. The sessions were expanded in incremental steps. When I had my first procedure with Dr. Wong in March of 02 I think they were hitting the lower 3000 range as the outside of their tehnological limits on virgin scalps. My 2406 graft session was considered huge considering I had two previous scars as well. 4000 and higher came in the subsequent years. With regards to scarring I'll simply say this. Yes, our strips are long but they are well within the recognized safe zone and of course this varies from patient to patient. When it comes to the tension, this is constantly monitored and adjustments are made accordingly. Longer strips, less tension. I don't know how long it takes other clinics to remove a donor strip but at our clinic it averages from about an hour to an hour and a half. "Does doing a procedure of this magnitude, or 4000 plus, Make people in the early thirties not a candidate, as we dont know the future of thier loss. and fear depleted donor supply." I think I need to clarify something. We don't shoot for amap (as many as possible) in one session for everyone and we certainly do not deplete the donor area. Proper management of the donor area is crucial. If someone gets 4000 grafts in one session they most certainly have more in the donor bank should they need it. Furthermore, when we place said 4000 grafts they are not placed in such a manner as to guarantee the need for more work. In other words, we don't place your hairline so low so that you need to comb your eyebrows and we don't fill your temples leaving you with an appearance similar to a primate (banana anyone?). High, mature hairlines are the order of the day for all but the rarest of cases thus preserving the donor bank for any subsequent procedures should the patient need any. Also, realize that the numbers we harvest in one session are relative to each patient and their donor limits. Some people can get 5000 in one session with no problems. Others can only get 2500 because they simply don't have characteristics that are great. In the case of Qwerty, 6500 was NOT obtained through the depletion of his donor bank. He has more if he wants it and then some. As I said, the numbers are relative to that patient's characteristics. Below, I have attached a photo of the scar two years after a session of 5195 grafts. As a side note, I think it is important that this thread stay on topic and not deviate into discussions specific to other clinics. Regarding Dr. Shapiro, we have nothing but the utmost respect for him and his abilities. We consider him to be one of the best surgeons in the world, period. Oh, he struck me as a darn nice guy too. As for Matt Zupan, I got the impression that he is passionate about his work and I know he really cares about what he does.

Fellas, As some of you guessed, procedures of this size require exceptional characteristics in the patient. One of you mentioned that there is no way that Qwert's head is so big as to allow for a 35cm long strip. I'll put it like this. Without revealing personal information about him I'll say that at 5'10 3/4 (gotta get all I can) I'm not a small guy but am average in height. Qwert however is above average in this respect hence a relative proportion to his scalp/skull. Combined with exceptional donor density and laxity he made for an ideal candidate. It needs to be clear that sessions such as Qwert's are not routine and it has never once been implied as such either. He is not however alone. What is routine in our office are sessions of 3500 to 4500 grafts. We do this everyday and without any play on the words describing a graft either. There is no greater issue of scarring and certainly no issue of graft survival. If there were we simply would not be doing these sessions as it would be plain wrong to do so. Dr. Hasson and Dr. Wong did not start performing these procedures overnight. It has taken years of constant refinement to get to this point. When the first 3000 graft session was shown at one of the conferences Dr. Hasson and Dr. Wong knew this was the future. They immediately invested in the personel, equipment and training to get to this point. Understand that this was at the time when 1200 to 1500 grafts was considered pushing the envelope and doctors were crying foul at the mere mention of even 2000 grafts in one procedure (some still do). Now, 2000 is considered average for most clinics and small for some. I know that Hasson & Wong is new to some of you but I ask that you be patient with our results. The docs have been doing this for some time now and we will reveal more and more results for your review. This works, guys. We've got more results to prove this.

Brav, Americans are commonly generalized as "lawsuit happy" and since some Canadian clinics advertise in the states they are required by their provider to pay the premiums that would cover non-Canadians. The extra overhead for these premiums is staggering compared to what is paid for Canadian citizens. It literally costs us fifty times more for non-Canadians. I understand your position but signing a waiver would be useless in the eyes of the insurance companies and the premiums would still be in place.

A more accurate way of describing the opposing techniques would be perpendicular (lateral) vs. parallel or coronal (lateral) vs. sagittal. The term literally describes the orientation of the incision in relation to the direction of hair growth and not necessarily an incision that lines up ear to ear. With lateral slits, the angle and direction are precisely controlled. They do not have a tendency to lean if the technique is properly executed. The Lateral Slit technique (as originally developed by Hasson & Wong) by definition requires the blades used for the incisions to be custom cut to the size of the grafts themselves. This leaves no room for leaning of any sort as the grafts are very snug. What Gorpy said about multi-hair grafts being "splayed" out is absolutely correct. The technique gives better coverage of the underlying scalp because of this and this is also what gives more density and better coverage. I'll try to put together a sketch and upload it for you to see what I'm talking about.

There are a few ways to address your issue. I too had bad mini-grafts about thirteen years ago and they were mis-directed as well. They basically pointed straight up. I simply had FU's placed inbetween and around them for camouflage and it worked extremely well. The thing for me was that the grafts were not too low on my hairline. If your grafts are too low on your hairline then you may also want to consider a brow lift. I've see it done and it works like a charm. Basically, your hairline is given a second chance to be virgin territory for grafting and the old grafts that are harvested are divided using microscopes and redistributed.

Dots? Would you be able to post some photos for us to look at?

MikeF et all, Only two things for sure in this life, taxes and death. If I didn't include the tax then it is my bad. Yes, in BC the tax is 7%. It is called GST or Goods and Services Tax.

Hugh, Hey buddy, I know where you live....

Rugger, I knew you'd respond with something like that and I'd be wide open for it but it was just too fun to resist Next month is going to be a blast, buddy!

You should also be able to bring your own DVD's as well. Rugger brought a bunch of Oprah and Days Of Our Lives re-runs and two boxes of tissue.

Maverick, Thanks for posting your pics. There are a lot of guys out there that are going through or have gone through the same thing as you. Pat is one example. So is Bushy. He recently had his "piece burning" ceremony I believe. He also lives in New York. Somewhere in Manhattan. One thing I can say is that it looks like you have very excellent donor hair. Better pics would help determine this. Depending on your particular characterstics I'd say going for 4000 to 4500 grafts would do you very well. Good luck with Dr. Feller. He'll give it to you straight.

Hairbethere, Good question. Why do you think we have so many techs? They're patients that couldn't pay their bill! Each case is different but we're not a bunch of greedy Enron executives. I can't give you a blanket answer because their isn't one.We simply address each case and take care of it appropriately and fairly.

I posted the photos for this patient on March 29th, 2004. When I saw the request for the photos again I went back to find the post and noticed an error. I originally posted that he had 5200 grafts. I reality it was 4877. My bad. The problem is that I wanted to edit the numbers before I gave you the link. Once I did that, I was notified that a "trigger word" had sent the post to be reviewed. What the...????? Anyway, the original thread is here... http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=5696015661&f=1466060861&m=8826075295&r=8826075295#8826075295

Shopboy, 3 months is the average time it takes to seen anything new. Being an average some people see something sooner, some later. I've seen guys for for as long as six months with nothing happening then BOOM! Growth. Hang tight and keep us informed of your progress. Who was your doctor and how many grafts?

Sorry guys, I've been slammeda and didn't see the questions. Hugh, Either way will work. I think that a combination of your two versions may work best. Move up, hold for half a second, then pull down and hold for half a second. Truthseeker, Ideally as often as you can but at least a couple hundred times a day to get a big noticeable difference. Less will work but you don't want to short change yourself. Rugger, I'm not going to ask for details on your "electric massage thing". That's probably personal anyway. Seriously, I don't think it would help much. You need to get some strong movement going and I don't think that would help. Using your hands is the best way. Geedo, No new wrinkles at all. It doesn't work like that so no worries. Solid, No bubble burst here. I never said we were the first to think of this. Just that it works and it helps a lot especially for those that have limited laxity. I think next will be the flying chopstick implantation method.

All, Some of you that know my story know that the whole reason why I had my old mini/micro work eleven years ago was because my best friend wanted me to come along to a consultation with him. The rest is history. Well, five months ago I was home for Xmas and I did an evaluation for him,(yes we're still best friends). He had three surgeries with Dr. Norris and wound up with about 1500 mini grafts to my 800. Like me he progressed to a NW6 with nothing but his grafts being on the top of his scalp. Well his scalp laxity was not good. I was figuring on maybe 2000 grafts for him on the high end which would be good enough to at least hide some of his old work so he could stop being embarrassed in public. I knew he wanted to come out to Vancouver to have Dr. Wong work on him but he didn't know when he'd be able to. I told him he may as well start the scalp exercises now and it would help him to be more prepared once he was able to come out. When he arrived the other day for his pre-op consult with Dr. Wong his scalp laxity had improved greatly. So great in fact that Dr. Wong was able to harvest 4100 grafts the next day!!! Dr. Wong rebuilt his hairline, brought out his right temple to match the left temple and placed the rest of the grafts as far back as he could go which was just into the top of his crown. The rest of his crown is still bald. I can't stress this enough guys. If you are coming to Hasson & Wong or ANY strip doc do yourself a favor and start these exercises NOW. It really does make a difference.

All, Some of you that know my story know that the whole reason why I had my old mini/micro work eleven years ago was because my best friend wanted me to come along to a consultation with him. The rest is history. Well, five months ago I was home for Xmas and I did an evaluation for him,(yes we're still best friends). He had three surgeries with Dr. Norris and wound up with about 1500 mini grafts to my 800. Like me he progressed to a NW6 with nothing but his grafts being on the top of his scalp. Well his scalp laxity was not good. I was figuring on maybe 2000 grafts for him on the high end which would be good enough to at least hide some of his old work so he could stop being embarrassed in public. I knew he wanted to come out to Vancouver to have Dr. Wong work on him but he didn't know when he'd be able to. I told him he may as well start the scalp exercises now and it would help him to be more prepared once he was able to come out. When he arrived the other day for his pre-op consult with Dr. Wong his scalp laxity had improved greatly. So great in fact that Dr. Wong was able to harvest 4100 grafts the next day!!! Dr. Wong rebuilt his hairline, brought out his right temple to match the left temple and placed the rest of the grafts as far back as he could go which was just into the top of his crown. The rest of his crown is still bald. I can't stress this enough guys. If you are coming to Hasson & Wong or ANY strip doc do yourself a favor and start these exercises NOW. It really does make a difference.

Jim, Mini/micro grafting is performed via strip just like FU grafting however that is the end of the similarities. The grafts are unnatural in design because they are cut as the doctor sees fit and without microscopic magnification. Results like I had from my mini grafts looked horrible because it was done very poorly. I'm not advocating mini/micro grafting in the least bit because it was a terrible waste of tissue and grafts due to much higher transection rates but for it's day it was excellent in the right hands. With plugs,(4mm punch grafts), it was a journey with no end as no one I have ever seen has had anything near a natural appearance from these.

"1 hair grafts" mean single hair grafts. "2 hair grafts" means double hair grafts or greater,(triple, quads etc.). MDM, There are good looking babes all over this town!! It's crazy here Peace, Joe Tillman aka, Jotronic Hasson & Wong Carpe Capillus!! www.HassonandWong.com www.Jotowen.com Joe@HassonandWong.com 1.800.859.2266 All statements and opinions that I share are my own and are not necessarily shared by H&W. I am not a doctor so if your head falls off it's not my fault. Go VOLS!!

On Dec. 9th, 2003 you received the following... 1 Hair Grafts...1103 2 Hair,(or more)...2958 Total...4061 Peace, Joe Tillman aka, Jotronic Hasson & Wong Carpe Capillus!! www.HassonandWong.com www.Jotowen.com Joe@HassonandWong.com 1.800.859.2266 All statements and opinions that I share are my own and are not necessarily shared by H&W. I am not a doctor so if your head falls off it's not my fault. Go VOLS!!

That is most definitely "hat head" in the traditional sense and not from shockloss. This guy had NO shockloss. Not in the recipient area, not in the donor area. Peace, Joe Tillman aka, Jotronic Hasson & Wong Carpe Capillus!! www.HassonandWong.com www.Jotowen.com Joe@HassonandWong.com 1.800.859.2266 All statements and opinions that I share are my own and are not necessarily shared by H&W. I am not a doctor so if your head falls off it's not my fault. Go VOLS!!

Yes, this patient is only five months out. He reported no temporary shock loss whatsoever. Bob, his head is not shaved. He has a little ring of hair around the bald area that was trimmed very short as he had planned on wearing a system while recovering but he changed his mind afterward. Peace, Joe Tillman aka, Jotronic Hasson & Wong Carpe Capillus!! www.HassonandWong.com www.Jotowen.com Joe@HassonandWong.com 1.800.859.2266 All statements and opinions that I share are my own and are not necessarily shared by H&W. I am not a doctor so if your head falls off it's not my fault. Go VOLS!!

The point of this thread is to show coverage and growth from the largest single session ever performed in one day, not to critique the hair style. With that said, there are some that have taken "the mullet" to a new level of artistic expression so I'd appreciate it if you guys would chill on his personal choice of hairstyle. This patient has agreed to not only show his preliminary results but he has agreed to do so in "Full Monty" mode. I understand he will soon have it all chopped off though. Hairbgoin, Dr. Wong performed this procedure. I believe it was his first to take him into the 5K Club. Peace, Joe Tillman aka, Jotronic Hasson & Wong Carpe Capillus!! www.HassonandWong.com www.Jotowen.com Joe@HassonandWong.com 1.800.859.2266 All statements and opinions that I share are my own and are not necessarily shared by H&W. I am not a doctor so if your head falls off it's not my fault. Go VOLS!!

#5 The donor scar. Peace, Joe Tillman aka, Jotronic Hasson & Wong Carpe Capillus!! www.HassonandWong.com www.Jotowen.com Joe@HassonandWong.com 1.800.859.2266 All statements and opinions that I share are my own and are not necessarily shared by H&W. I am not a doctor so if your head falls off it's not my fault. Go VOLS!!