Jotronic

Clinics that say dense packing is not the way to go are speaking from experience...their own. Just because they cannot do this does not mean it is not being done everyday somewhere else. The scalp has an enormous blood supply relative to the rest of the body. There is more than enough to keep the grafts nourished.

PB, If it makes you feel any better I am willing to bet that it is indeed NOT thinner and more in your mind than in reality. When guys go through this they tend to see things that others don't even if others are asked to examine them. This can happen for several months but in the end you may find your donor is just the same as it always was. Consider this. You had 2700. When we pull off these mega super sessions of 5000 plus you'd expect to see or hear about huge differences in donor density by the patient. It's a non-issue for our big sessions so you should be in fine shape.

PB, Are you saying that after one strip of 2700 grafts you have "noticeably" thinner hair in the donor region or are you saying it is thinner simply because it has been stretched out a bit? Just trying to understand what you are saying. If you think it's because your donor area has stretched then, technically, you are correct but the degree of difference is so miniscule that you'd be hard pressed to see the difference under magnification much less in every day life. For you to have only 4700 grafts available overall means that you must be a very marginal (at best) candidate the likes of which I have rarely seen. We feel from our experience that the average patient has about 6500 to 8500 grafts available in total. Is it likely we can get more than 2000? I only say yes because I routinely hear from patients what other docs have estimated and we always get more. I do not say yes with regards to your case because I know nothing about your history. With regards to my donor hair and Proscar, please do not misunderstand. My donor hair, while not great, was not in danger of falling out. When I say the quality of my hair improved I do not mean the density. I mean the aesthetic quality of it. It looks healthier. My transplanted hair is very safe from future loss should I ever discontinue my routine of maintenance.

PB, Yes, we can and do on a daily basis. Our average size session is about 4000 grafts per patient. Jake, Yeah, that is what Mike told me in 2002. I had not been on Proscar or anything else at the time. My donor laxity was/is off the charts compared to the average patient but my donor was average. My donor hair quality though was not so good. Since Proscar it improved. It is noticeable all over my scalp and I see this commonly on other patients. My density did not change though. It all comes down to the laxity for me. We tend to take longer strips but we also make sure we waste as close to zero grafts as possible. Having large numbers of techs helps too because you need a lot of techs to be able to cut the number of grafts we get. I don't remember my strip length off the top of my head. I think it was in the range of 27 to 30 cm long. I posted it somewhere quite a while ago and I don't have my chart near me. We find that the average patient has 6500 to 8500 grafts in total. My situation places me in the mutant category according to Dr. Wong. Johnnie69, Being a pasty white boy my average is 2.3 hairs per graft so that makes for about 18,200 hairs not including the 300 mini grafts I have too.

Johnnie69, Just Avodart daily. Nothing else. I switched about five months ago after three years of Proscar. While I think I'm seeing some gains in my crown above and beyond what little I gained from Proscar it is still early. M&M, YES!!! That was it. I'd love to have some of that just to keep around as a souvenir. Got any?

Johhnie69, I like the saying "Never say never". This applies because while nothing is planned I do have more left should we decide to really tackle the crown more. Yes, those days were Hell but I wouldn't change a thing. Had I not dealt with them then I would not have the perspective that I have now. Hairbank, I'm glad I may have had any role in your decision making. You're turning out to have quite the mane so congrats to you, sir.

Sorry, missed that part. I have never once used Dermatch or Toppik or Courvre or anything else since I have had my procedures with Dr. Wong. In the mid nineties I tried something called ALH or something like that. Basically it was hair in a spray can. As horrible as it was I became addicted to using it and I swore I'd never do that to myself again. It certainly does not look like I've ever had a problem with hairloss, just recession and a bit of thinning here and there, mostly in the crown. Some may think it's thinner and some may think it's thicker but I am not bald

For the past ten years Hasson & Wong have been performing their lateral slit technique which we have claimed gives a more natural appearance to the transplanted hairs. In the May 2006 edition of the Journal of Dermatologic Surgery a Japanese study entitled Orientation of Multi-Hair Follicular Units in Nonbald Men: Perpendicular Versus Parallel (Kuniyoshi Yagyu MD, Koki Hayashi MD, Stephen Chang MD) proved that the natural orientation of multi-hair follicular units is perpendicular to the direction of hair growth. The study was based on information accumulated from the study of 100 patients. This has been the principle behind the H&W Lateral Slit Technique. The placement of multi-hair follicular unit grafts into lateral slits will recreate this pattern seen in nature. At last our technique which has been dismissed by others has been validated by something seen very rarely in the hair transplant world- a STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT STUDY. Told you guys we were ahead of the game

For the past ten years Hasson & Wong have been performing their lateral slit technique which we have claimed gives a more natural appearance to the transplanted hairs. In the May 2006 edition of the Journal of Dermatologic Surgery a Japanese study entitled Orientation of Multi-Hair Follicular Units in Nonbald Men: Perpendicular Versus Parallel (Kuniyoshi Yagyu MD, Koki Hayashi MD, Stephen Chang MD) proved that the natural orientation of multi-hair follicular units is perpendicular to the direction of hair growth. The study was based on information accumulated from the study of 100 patients. This has been the principle behind the H&W Lateral Slit Technique. The placement of multi-hair follicular unit grafts into lateral slits will recreate this pattern seen in nature. At last our technique which has been dismissed by others has been validated by something seen very rarely in the hair transplant world- a STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT STUDY. Told you guys we were ahead of the game

Guys, Thanks for the comments. Johnnie69, The BHT was a small test a long time ago. 40% yield and 87 dots on my chest. Jake, Click on the link to enlarge the photos. It's in the bottom left corner of the album page.

Long time since I've done this but I've received a few more requests lately for outdoor sunshine pics so here ya go. I've got a bit O' gel in my hair in these shots so keep that in mind. I also found an old photo of my scalp before # 1 with Dr. Wong way back in March of 2002. The pitting and graft direction brings back some harsh memories. It's hard to believe I started this almost 4.5 years ago. I'll be having a major update to my site in a few weeks so there will be a more comprehensive update when that happens. In case you forgot or never knew to begin with: First photo is showing 300 mini grafts after I progressed to a NW6. Rest of the photos show 7917 grafts over three big sessions and a few guinea pig sessions (FUE/BHT)

OGPH, Google my handle, Jotronic, to see an example of repair work.

Jake, I understand your point and I know how sometimes personalities can just clash. Regardless, I think that personalities are a non-issue when dealing with something of this magnitude. A very brilliant friend of mine has a great analogy for situations like this. You walk into a BMW dealership to view the latest model M5. The salesman is "high pressure". Should you walk across the street to the Ford dealership just because of the salesman? Brianf, It is this exact perception of doctors in general that can lead to disaster. We are taught early on in life to trust doctors. Usually it is a good general rule of thumb however it does not always work out for the best. In 1992 I spoke directly with a doctor and the nurses that worked with him. He didn't even have a consultant so of course that is good reason to have nothing but confidence in what he told me at the time. What I got for listening to a doctor only is on the left below. What I got from listening to a high pressure salesman is on the right.

Eman, Here's what I did once. I was working in my office (yes, before I worked for H&W) and there was a co-worker that I noticed had had work done. It was quite obvious but I of course didn't want to let on about it because I had gone through the same issue myself (bad work). He would come into my office often just to bs about work, talk about the market, etc. Well, one day I decided to have a hair website ( this one) up on my monitor for him to see whenever he came in. I did, he did and it worked. He started asking about it and that just opened the door. "You know, I've had work done before". Muhahahaha, it worked. This way, you will know for sure whether or not it is something he is comfortable enough to speak about. You could try this the way I did or even simply print out a page from this site and leave it mixed in with some papers. It "accidentally" drops on the floor and you pick it up hurriedly. Then offer up a slightly embarrassed explanation that again not only opens of the opportunity to discuss his work but even puts you in a position of need for a "mentor". Just a couple of ideas that I hope can help.

Hank, Before I continue, I want you to know that I have not doubted your post in any way. If you had a positive experience with Dr. Gable then that can be nothing but a good thing. The last thing I want to read about is another horror story. Been there myself, done that twice. What I take issue with is your reference to a "high pressure salesman". There are not many clinics in Portland and I know who is who in the industry and what they can or cannot do. Having had the same representative from H&W as you did before I started working for H&W I can say with confidence that our rep in Portland is anything but high pressure. Enthusiastic? Yes. Educational? No question. Having said that I have another question for you. You stated... "And then the rep tells me I'm an "idiot", can you blame me for not wanting to go up there?" Did he, in plain english, call you an idiot or when you said you were going to another doctor did he give you some educational resources to look at before you made your decision? I'm not asking about anything implied. I'm asking if he literally said the word "idiot" because if it was anything else then perhaps you should rethink your statement. I know that some people may be sensitive to additional follow up by a representative of a company that they may have had interest in at one point but the last thing we need to be is pushy or high pressure. We find, in the vast majority of cases, the education of the patient leads them to make solid decisions. We give this information in the form of one on one meetings with former patients and web references such as the Coalition of Independent Surgeons. We WANT our patients to look at other clinis. We WANT them to meet patients that had work elsewhere. In an industry such as this you can hardly blame anyone for making sure you've had exposure to as much information about this process as possible. So I ask you, did he literally call you an idiot or did you not like that he asked you to at least read up some more before you pulled the trigger? Ultimately, based on whatever research you conducted, you chose another clinic. We cannot be bitter or whine about this because we know that we are not all things to all people. I wish you great growth and happiness with your procedure and I encourage you to share regular updates with the forum members.

Some may think the initial post is suspect, others may not. I just want to know what I asked about before. If you cancelled your appointment then how do you know he was high pressure? It's like saying I cancelled my test drive of the car that handled like a sailboat full of bricks. How do you know?

Hank, Thanks for posting and welcome to the forums. Curious, you said something that is rather confusing... "He thought a reasonable goal for me was 2,200 grafts and so I immediately scheduled my surgery with Dr Gabel and canceled the appointment with the high pressured salesman." If you cancelled your appointment then how do you know he was high pressure?

Patient is eight months post op. He came in and realized we had an opportunity so we grabbed the ether rag and the clippers. Here is the result. http://www.hassonandwong.com/Video/trichoshave.wmv

Patient is eight months post op. He came in and realized we had an opportunity so we grabbed the ether rag and the clippers. Here is the result. http://www.hassonandwong.com/Video/trichoshave.wmv

Patient came in to see us after 8 months post-op. He was one of our first tricho patients.

Patient came in to see us after 8 months post-op. He was one of our first tricho patients.

The medical boards will show you squat. There is no governing medical body that monitors the hair transplant industry. What type of research did you do before you settled on this doc? How many patient results did you see? Were the photos taken in a studio or with flash photography? Did they have not only the same hairloss as you but the results you are looking for? Has he discussed potential shockloss with you? Propecia or Proscar? Only you can determine if he is "OK" through diligent research and speaking with patients. Let us know more i.e. your hairloss pattern, number of grafts recommended etc. If you have any pics to share that would be best.

PB, That hurt just to read about the dental drill. Bad memories, man.

Always remember... you will be on an emotional rollercoaster from day ten to month seven regarding your growth. This is a time of change on a weekly basis and your impression of the work will change as well. Three months is the early half of the average time for grafts to start sprouting so hang in there, it will get better.

Andyb, Sorry, but your math doesn't work out. You said you've "seen hair transplants as an adult since 1965...so I know what I'm talking about". You then say that you are 52 years old. I don't think that an eleven year old is an adult and I find it odd that you were looking at hair transplants as a sixth grader. Is this simply a typo?