Agio

I turned 46 in January and looking at my dad who is now 69 and pics of my maternal gradfather it appears I was almost done. My dad's hasn't changed much since his 40's but from pictures of them from their 40's it looks like I was due to drop a bit more on the top and last year I had the major loss in the crown area which is consistent with both of them. The crown came on sudden like, wham! Did dad warn me about this? Noooo...

Crown or front both pale when compared to thinning nostril hair...

Anon Man, Though I've never felt extremes such as you describe I won't say that my hair loss didn't bother me a great deal, it did and still does. I just had a transplant about 6-7 weeks back and I look like hell so I can't tell you a transplant is all blue bells n sunshine just yet. I'm a fairly confident successful guy and have never had trouble with ladies but hair loss really upset me. For years I struggled with the weakness (to me) of my hair loss bothering me, after having a transplant done I still feel that way to a large extent.It's like I discovered a weakness in my character that pleased me not at all. I despise vanity as we seem to live in a society that caters to the lowest common denominator etc. and I've always looked upon people who get vanity surgery done with a certain amount of disdain. I consider a HT vanity surgery but and it's a big but, we live in a society that judges us on appearance to a large degree and for the vast majority of men, hair loss is a very big issue no matter what they say. As I was one who went years saying it was no big deal yet having it bother me regularly to the point that I felt I needed to fix it I can attest to that. Is it the cause of your depression? No idea, that's a shrinks job. What I do know is that in my case when things aren't going great, my hair loss drives me nuts so it's an issue. I wish you all the best and as you've already read, you aren't alone. If it's any consolation, Julius Caeser started losing his hair in his 30's and it supposedly aggravated him a great deal so we all aren't in bad company. Look on the bright side, we can have a HT done as opposed to crucifying a bunch of people when we're having a bad no hair day. Caeser couldn't.

stratman & dirge What pushing40 said. So much of what you are experiencing I felt. Unlike p40 I'm only 5 weeks out and still going 'Oh shit, the vanity, what have i done??' Then I think back to every goddamn day before the surgery for 3 years thinking about my hair or lack thereof and relax. And on that relationship note, it's great she feels that way but it's how you feel. Anyone who cares about you thinks it's no big and that's great but in theory if we feel better than they benefit too. Now, if she lets you shave her bald, well......

Eman Jotronic & Spex as always provide clear realistic insights into the whole process as does Bill . I found this to be the case after reading this site for well over a year and as I had mine done 5 weeks back I can now in fact validate much of what they say. That isn't to marginalize anyone elses contributions, many are superb, I've simply found those 3 in particular get right to the nuts of the matter and they've been there and got the t-shirts so to speak especially on the 'one pass' option and its meaning. In my case, I initially was under the impression that I might be able to get the whole area I wanted done covered in one pass given the capabilities of the top surgeons today. After much reading here and detailed consults with the surgeon I realized that simply wasn't going to happen given the area of hair loss to be worked on, the size of a strip that could be safely harvested in one session, my expectations and the surgeons standards. Once I knew it was going to probably take 2 HT's to be beautiful again the surgeon and I spent a lot of time going over how we were going to proceed. The 1st session was a successful 'one pass' (I'm taking the Docs word on that) in that we got the maximum in the front 70%, leaving the crown and any added density in the front 70% for a 2nd and my donor area is ample for the job. As I'm not obsessed about my crown one may do the trick however chances are if all goes well with the 1st one the crown will bug me and I'll need a 2nd. Knowing that I'd probably need 2 for optimum results going in was invaluable information and many posts on this site provided much of that information.

What I fail to understand is the relevance of this entire discussion. First, assumptions are being made that all peoples hair is equal. This is simply not the case as has been pointed out and empirical information exists to support that. However when that very point was brought up the response was that it was a 'one off' occurrence and or that it was the surgeons ineptness or machiavellian designs that yielded less hairs per graft. Secondly, there is no reliable average count of hairs per graft, only approximations. Think of us all as snowflakes, all different so an 'average hair per graft' argument is baseless. Even assuming my above statements are false and that there is a conspiracy amongst top notch surgeons to hustle us all by doing more grafts than required to bilk us out of our money how can you prove it? You can't, consequently the entire point is moot. Perhaps one could hire 'professional spotters' who travel with any patient watching the entire process from donor hair removal, graft dissection to planting to make sure we aren't getting screwed. All of the best surgeons state that the new techniques are NOT cost effective for them so why would they do more labour intensive surgery as they generally charge a minimum dollar amount for a transplant no matter the number of grafts? Typically it's going to cost you 8-10000 regardless. Given how busy these surgeons are and how much money they make, I find them grabbing an extra thousand or two while risking their reputation simultaneously unlikely. After reading this site and others over the past couple of years I think some posts are generated out of fear, uncertainty, anxiety and budgetary concerns or a combination of all. Well, hair tranplantation is an expensive uncertain route with no guarantees of success regardless how many grafts are done or hairs per graft and a host of other things. Numerous posts on this site make this clear and it would serve to read them. I think one needs to understand and deal with the reality and risks before having a transplant done as opposed to seeking answers to unanswerable questions or validation for an untenable position.

Josh, does a 6'x 6' mirror count?

Hello Sports fans. Click on the hair loss web blog for updated pics. Even though it's almost a month since the procedure-oh how time flies when you're having fun, rec'd these pics from Dr. N on Friday the 15th of me 2 weeks post op. Still a bit of soreness in the donar scar area so I've refrained from getting a proper cut. Besides, I kind of like the deranged psycho electroshock junkie look I'm sporting as of now. About week 3 the shedding commenced. Not too bad and the pink area highlights where he did the hairline only add to the demented look. All good aside from the damn scalp numbness. Mind you, if a headbutting contest pops up, I'm in! Oh a note to all of those who are where I am in this journey. Looking in the mirror at your transplant area every hour does not seem to make it grow faster.

Hello Sports fans. Click on the hair loss web blog for updated pics. Even though it's almost a month since the procedure-oh how time flies when you're having fun, rec'd these pics from Dr. N on Friday the 15th of me 2 weeks post op. Still a bit of soreness in the donar scar area so I've refrained from getting a proper cut. Besides, I kind of like the deranged psycho electroshock junkie look I'm sporting as of now. About week 3 the shedding commenced. Not too bad and the pink area highlights where he did the hairline only add to the demented look. All good aside from the damn scalp numbness. Mind you, if a headbutting contest pops up, I'm in! Oh a note to all of those who are where I am in this journey. Looking in the mirror at your transplant area every hour does not seem to make it grow faster.

Burt1973 Your post just struck me as odd. I guess I misinterpreted it so my comments were out of line. I too have looked at that particular photo before and to say the transformation is anything short of miraculous is an under-statement. Research isn't bad at all and given the number of bad stories one hears and that I did more research than I thought possible before I went ahead with a HT I understand your point. I don't put much stock in before/after photos at HT sites. Of course it's logical a HT site only shows the best of the best but it's also unfortunate. The results always remind me of those infomercials with 'real life testimonials' where you can lose 40 lbs in 2 weeks or the ones where you can become a millionaire in 3 months with no money required and then in very very small print at the bottom of the screen you see 'results not typical' Anyhow, no offense was meant given the spirit your post was in.

Actually it would serve you well to read an entire post carefully before typing. I did not criticize the person in the pic for any changes he may have made, that part of my post is a thing called sarcasm. I did and do think that anyone who can spend as much time studying a before/after picture and insinuate it has been doctored as the original poster did has too much time on their hands and given that a lot of people who come to this site in an attempt to get some facts are already antsy as hell , this type of post isn't helpful. Anyhow, next.

You mean to tell me that a guy who spent $25-$30000 on hair transplants would actually be so vain as to lose some weight, get a tan and possibly have his teeth whitened? Frankly, I am amazed. Not at that, at how much bloody spare time some people seem to have on their hands. Studying wrinkles on ears, jayzzzuz.

Well I guess I went to a hack, hope you have better luck. As for statistical studies, I'm sure the surgeons are just dying to shell out a bunch of money for the time it would take to create the data base suggested as it will generate so much more business and most of them are starving. Not to mention the lawsuits from a slew of PC organizations if they use ethnic categories.

Welcome. Yes it is true and even though I've yet to post about my experience with Nakatsui, primarily as I want to wait and see even though the technical side was fine one of the keys with me choosing him was the consults prior and we addressed all of these issues. I think consults are under-rated. I personally put more import on them than the surgery itself assuming one has picked a top notch surgeon. Hair thickness, color, density, scalp laxity , top notch surgeon and team and on and on and on have so much to do with the end results. I consider this site to be a great help in assisting people with those questions as you have people contributing their experiences be they good or bad. Many 'surgeons' prey on the weakness of people losing hair and tell them what they want to hear and jacking their expectations to the moon.

This sir is why you are the moderator and worth every penny of the 2.75 an hour Pat pays ya Possibly one of the most overlooked issues when people are exploring surgery is as you stated, hair characteristics. I think many sites, logically, use pictures of their 'ideal' patients hence why a persons own research is so important including viewing the hairloss blogs. To get the 'wow' effect in a single HT seems everything needs be in perfect alignment, including the stars and you need to have sacrificed a goat prior to the surgery. I know in my case the yield was 2 times less of 3 hair grafts as opposed to singles, just the way my hair is. Of course I was too cheap to spring for a goat, used a gerbil instead...

Hi BH I totally agree with your 1st point. There is absolutely no way that I would have this done without speaking to the Doctor. None, zero and zip. I had an appointment a couple of years back with a Dr. and when the consultant showed up and not the Doctor I left. That's not a slag on any consultant but they aren't the ones doing the surgery. However in respect to the technicians I think they are under-estimated in many ways. In my discussions prior to the surgery with several top notch Doctors what became apparent was how rare truly expert planters are and it seems most of the best surgeons treat them like gold. So in this area I don't share the concern you have. I guess one of the purposes of this site and others like it is to help people make informed decisions and encourage due dilligence prior to having surgery done. And it is surgery so to me the idea of trusting a consultant without the Doctors input is entirely out of the question.

Rambler-Have you actually had a consult be it electronic or face to face with a Doctor on this yet? In this case either Hasson or Wong? I emailed pics to H&W and then spoke to H on the phone about 6 months back when I was serious about having one done. I ask because these seem to be questions only the Doctor should attempt to answer and as important, that you will be satisfied with. I mean no offense to any consultants but they aren't the ones doing the surgery nor can they possibly have the knowledge the doctor has, especially if they are looking at pictures.

Rambler-After waiting this long I certainly hope I'll be pleased and yeah, it was a serious session. I'm pleased I found a quality surgeon literally 10 minutes away from me. Lucky, unless the results suck, lol. I don't have links, if I recall Rahal, Shapiro and Feller give interesting comments and you can also google "dense packing hair transplants" I think that's what I did. Frankly, it's all a haze now. I've bought companies with less research, man...

Rambler It is indeed confusing and I've been there. All a person can do is sift through it patiently because regardless what a person feels, their hair isn't falling out so fast that they need to rush before being comfortable. For me I used the electronic consults I had done (inc one form H&W) as a broad approximation because it is essentially an unanswerable question. In my opinion, until you are actually at the surgeons and he or she is looking at your head judging hair coarseness & thickness, donor site and scalp laxity determining how many grafts you actually need is pretty tough. Of course, in the end, everything depends on the results you want and what the surgeon can give you. I'm sure that whoever you choose will be top notch and they won't be hustling you for extra grafts. It's your head afterall, if you want 900 or 1500 or 4000 grafts then that's what you'll get. There are some interesting posts and information on surgeons sites about dense packing. More isn't always better it seems. P.S. Just looked at the pics you posted. You aren't being unrealistic in your goals but if you want to fill in that hairline it's going to take a fair amount of grafts I think. I know we ate up a lot doing mine because you can't hide anything. We appear to have a quite similar pattern in hair loss given that you had 900 grafts done previously. A ton on the sides and not so good on top, lol. I think yours is thicker though and probably not as advanced as mine.

Hi Rambler-I too am 46. It may be helpful for you to look at my weblog as the surgeon who did mine trained with H&W. As I never attempted any type of camouflaging, just combed my hair as I always had through 13 years of thinning it may or may not look worse than it actually is but it looks like I have a lot less hair than you. Keep in mind that when they are dense packing anywhere from 40-80 grafts per sq cm to achieve optimum results it doesn't take many grafts to reach 900. Nakatsui covered approximately 120 sq cm with 4312 grafts and he isn't a 'dense packing fanatic' as I doubt H & W are. They put the hairs where they are needed to obtain optimum results, no more, no less. I've attached a photo of an area near the front showing 1 sq cm with 59 grafts. Lot of grafts in a small area. It's all about what you want and expect and in truth an electronic consult is at best an educated quess. Best of luck to you.

Saw Nakatsui Thursday. After his nurse removed the staples (OH! OH! HAPPY DANCE!) he inspected the entire area and saw nothing untowards and commented on how fast and well I'd healed. Apparently the 'channeling' effect seen is because the scalp in some patients ( he said quite a few) contracts-it's almost like a spasm, creating the nifty look. According to him it can be quite dramatic but it goes away so we'll see in time. Combined with dead hair, scabs, maybe some early shedding and maybe some shock loss it could look quite crappy. Anyhow, after all of that he had his nurse do a thorough 'clean up' of the recipient area as there was a whack of dead skin etc. I was quite impressed with that type of post-op attention. He then took a bunch of photos for the both of us and I'll have those later to post on the log. For now, here is a comparison photo that I took (flash and all) Friday morning after a shower.

Thanks all. I have the utmost confidence in Nakatsui. I'm thinking as I generally heal fast it's fast shedding and maybe some shock loss. Either that or the graft planters decided to plant in such a way that their initials will be emblazoned on my scalp when it grows in... No worries, I'm sure Nakatsui will give me the straight goods on Thursday once I tie him up and take pliers to his fingers.

Thx Bill-I've had no bleeding at all. Those channels look like there is absolutely nothing there though. Maybe shock loss in those areas and all that's left is the grafts? As you said and I know, the areas were done. Average of 59 grafts per sq cm. Anyhow, I'll ask the Doc on Thursday.

hi hairthere and nobuzz-thx for the input. not the best pic as it doesn't catch the back part but no crown work was done. there is a better pic of the entire area on my weblog day after. all 4300 in the hairline and top 70%. Here's another pic.

I've decided to show the whole process warts and all so I'll be updating as things warrant.