Stimpson

There is a study that was performed by Bernstein and Rassman where they tested graft security. It is available online here: http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/resources/GraftAnchoring05.php In summary, after 10 days, they are pretty much fused. After 2 months, they are definitely fused. Paranoia is normal, and I think EVERYBODY goes through it. If you had hit your head on day three or something, that would be another matter. But 2 months? Don't worry. Stimpy

My hair was course and all willy nilly for about the first 7-8 months before it started consistently softening and so forth. What is the hair like in the donor where it came from? This is one thing to kind of consider, because naturally the front hairline of many is kind of thin and whispy as the hairline recedes. But of course after an HT, the hair is not thin and whispy, but strong. My hairline does look a little stronger post HT, because it's not that baby fine hair anymore. The transplanted hair is even a little darker than the original hair for me (although theres not really ANY original hair in my line anymore...). 13 months is a long time. Hopefully it will settle down. It should eventually match the characteristics of the donor area where it came from, whatever they may be.

Okay Ceaser. Do what you want. It's nothing to me. Just beware. There are people out there who think that MANY things grow hair (see the epic argument about the laser comb). I am not making accusations here, btw. I am just saying that this particular field is full of quackery. Beware. And again, as to the cited studies, without the same control environments, they are a waste of time. Even if the TAHC area *is* the same in both cases, it still doesn't work. Without the same controls, you are NOT comparing apples to apples. It is simply NOT scientifically sound to make comparisons across different control sets. No credible scientist would even make the attempt. To be valid, the comparison must be apples to apples. The argument has left the realm of minoxidil, which is delivered in either the liquid or the foam, and shifted to whether of not propylene glycol is a hair growth stimulant. I don't know if it is or not. My guess is that it is not. Too many things have been touted as magical baldness solutions before, and I am naturally skeptical. btw - my understanding was that Rogaine in *either* form is not horribly effective at growing *new* hair, but rather it strengthens *existing* hair. I have no horse in this race. Best of luck at whatever you choose. For me personally, I can't even use the liquid. The foam is okay. Regards - Stimpy

Personally, I have not seen nor heard of any of this. We have ALL heard crazy claims about magical hair growth solutions. With all due respect, this sounds like just one more crazy claim. Personally, I am not going to intentionally irritate my scalp. That's silly. But to each their own. Have fun. I think anti-freeze is on sale at Wal-mart for $9.99. btw - propylene glycol is an ingrediant in many types of anti-freeze. That's why I mention anti-freeze. Stimpy

Okay John, do you have evidence supporting your claim the prolyene glycol increases growth? All it ever did was make my scalp irritated to the point it peeled. Regards - Stimpy

------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Ceasar08: Thanks... but this is super confusing. According to the foam study, there was a 40% placebo effect. That's pretty crazy. Reply by JohnS: That is easily explained. The foam acts as a thickening agent, this I am sure you noticed when using it. It simply makes your hair look thicker, quite in contrast to the liquid when makes it look worse, at least until it dries. But as you can see, the hair count increase averaged only 4 hairs in the specified area, definitely not enough to notice. end quote ------------------------------------------- Again, how do you know that the study evaluated the hair AFTER the foam was applied, as opposed to after, say, a shower? That would NOT be scientifically sound to put the foam in ones hair and say "hey, it's thicker". Why are we to assume they did this? As for the hair increasing by only 4 in the specified area, you DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE SPECIFIED AREA IS!! That is perhaps the biggest problem with comparing these studies, although there are too many others. I'll say it again. Different control circumstances = not comparable. As for proplyene glycol increasing hair growth, that's new to me. I guess we can all save many on minox and just start smearing our heads with anti-freeze. It's what, like $15 a gallon? We'll save a lot of money. Stimpy

One additional thing that is getting lost in the shuffle here... The foam and the liquid are merely CARRIERS. The MINOXIDIL is the active ingrediant. As long as both carriers are safe and effective (they are), the minoxodil is still just the minoxidil. It is just a matter of preference. They are the same thing. Most agree the foam delivers better and irritates the scalp less. Stimpy

With all due respect, John, unless I am missing something (a possiblity), your data is not straight across comparable. The first study evaluates the foam. The second study evaluates the liquid at various strenghts. The studies are not comparable AT LEAST because the first study (TMF) does NOT specify a 1 inch diameter area on the scalp for the TAHC, whereas the second study clearly does. If the TAHC areas were not directly comparable across studies, and it is unlikely that they would be, since the studies were NOT made for comparison with one another, than you CANNOT use the TAHC as a basis for comparison between the studies. That is undisputable fact. Additonally, the first study indicates it was carried out on men of Norwood III, IIIv, or V. The second study is silent as to the subjects MPB patters. What would be useful is a study evaluating the foam versus the liquid, carried out under EQUALLY CONTROLLED CIRCUMSTANCES (i.e. patients in similar control conditions, etc.). Bottom line - Comparing two different studies with different control circumstances is a fruitless and meaningless endeavor. Stimpy

I started finesteride (i.e. propecia) last August and minox foam about a month after that. I went into a SEVERE and SCARY initial shedding phase. It was pretty drastic. But... it all started coming back after about 3-4 months. The shed lasted about 5 weeks before stabilizing, leaving me rather bald, except for some stupid bosley minigrafts. I know it's freaky, but it DOES come back, and if you stop now, all you will get is the shed with none of the benefits of continued use (although the hair will return either way). Ride it out, and I'm sure you'll be fine. - Stimpy

Specifically, I am talking about these two pictures. Seems like a large session into a lot of existing hair. Superb results, though. Stimpy

Hello all. I found this link in another thread. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=143484 What is interesting to me about this, is that if you look at the top-down before photo, this guy already had a lot of hair in the midscalp and crown area. Then when you look at the top down AFTER photo, it is clear that there was a LOT of hair transplanted into these areas that already had a lot of hair. The results, of course, are through the roof in typical H&W fashion. Was this able to be pulled off primarily because of the head shaving? I know a patient should never assume "one and done", but it looks to me like this might be the real deal in that regard, because even when the remaining native hair goes the way of the dinosour, there will still be a lot of transplanted hair in the region to provide coverage. I know if the ring of thick hair (the NW6 pattern) pulls down, obviously there will be a need for more, but if it does not, it looks to me like this patient might be good for the haul, from the front all the way to the crown. I was just a little surprised at the extent of the transplant into native hair. Again, though, the results speak. I kind of have native hair like that in the rear midscalp/crown area, and I would like to just do one more and be done (except for minor FUE touchups if needed). All I care for as far as the crown goes is a dusting, just so it isn't slick shiny bald. If they can go into what's already there as appears was done in this case, that would be great, because then it could just thin into a dusting over time. Am I naive about this? Am I misinterpreting these phots? Thanks - Stimpy

Hello all. I found this link in another thread. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=143484 What is interesting to me about this, is that if you look at the top-down before photo, this guy already had a lot of hair in the midscalp and crown area. Then when you look at the top down AFTER photo, it is clear that there was a LOT of hair transplanted into these areas that already had a lot of hair. The results, of course, are through the roof in typical H&W fashion. Was this able to be pulled off primarily because of the head shaving? I know a patient should never assume "one and done", but it looks to me like this might be the real deal in that regard, because even when the remaining native hair goes the way of the dinosour, there will still be a lot of transplanted hair in the region to provide coverage. I know if the ring of thick hair (the NW6 pattern) pulls down, obviously there will be a need for more, but if it does not, it looks to me like this patient might be good for the haul, from the front all the way to the crown. I was just a little surprised at the extent of the transplant into native hair. Again, though, the results speak. I kind of have native hair like that in the rear midscalp/crown area, and I would like to just do one more and be done (except for minor FUE touchups if needed). All I care for as far as the crown goes is a dusting, just so it isn't slick shiny bald. If they can go into what's already there as appears was done in this case, that would be great, because then it could just thin into a dusting over time. Am I naive about this? Am I misinterpreting these phots? Thanks - Stimpy

Johnno, I too noticed the hat thing. When I would wear the hat, I would get smiles and looks from complete strangers. Without it, it never went so well. Just a fact. Yes, confidence does play a large role too. Also, and I hate to say this, but are we men not JUST as bad? The larger and/or more unattractive women may have given me looks without the hat. Honestly, I would not have even noticed, because I was not looking at them. Things just aren't always fair or nice in life, and we're all just dust in the wind and yadda yadda yadda... Stimpy

I appall the eye-drifters. However, as an HT patient, it is one of the main ways that I pass time in airports (that and of course female watching). I try to either A) spot transplants or B) just observe balding patterns in general for my own future planning purposes. Please note that I do not do this in conversation. Stimpy

IMO, if you can tell NOBODY about it, that is the best way to go. Unless you just do not care. The unfortunate reality is that people who mean well can even sometimes just have no tact. Example, years ago i had some Bosley work. Like many I made this mistake. But, it was okay at first, because it was well behind the hair line. My parents knew. That was okay, right? Wrong!!! I was at a family gathering. Specifically, my grandfather was in the hospital and we had all shown up from various cities in the state to visit (myself, aunts, cousins, grandmother, etc.). I happened at the time to reside in the city where the hospital was, and I showed up after work. Everybody else was already there. I enter the hospital room, and immediatly one of my tactless aunts starts saying "oh it looks so good" and reaching for my hair and crap. RIGHT in front of EVERYBODY. Although she meant well, I think I actually recoiled. It was like a punch. I was just stunned and completely speechless. I had been betrayed by my own parents, who I had SPECIFICALLY asked not to tell anybody!!! But what could i really say, being in a hospital room and all. I was *SO* unbelievabely pissed, and still 12 years later I do not dwell on it because the anger remains rather strong. I have since had the Bosley situation covered (again, though, at the time of this incident it did not look bad). The repair work has been in two stages, so there has never really been a bold new head of hair that stands out. Plus, I always wore a hat alot anyway. Plus, i have since moved WAY too many times, completely changing the crowd ( I feel like some modern version of a drifter, only with money). My vote, though, unless you want EVERYBODY to know, don't tell ANYBODY. Exception - I guess if you are married, you should tell your wife. I actually remember reading posts about a year ago from a very scared man who was trying to hide his HT from his wife. Mind you, not previous work from before he was married (which would be acceptable to hide), but he was GETTING an HT and trying to hide it from his wife. I do not generally laugh at the trials of my fellow baldies, but I remember chuckling at that one. I wonder what ever happened to that guy? Thanks. Stimpy

You need to take the paratheses off of the end of the second link. It does not belong and it makes the page default to the imageshack home. Also, both of those pictures are *blurry* shots of *single* hairs *removed* from your head. People here love to provide feedback, but you are going to have to do WAY better than those pictures. They are frankly 100% useless. You need to take pictures of the questionable hair on your HEAD if you want feedback.

Tragedy - My understanding has always been that you will lose what you gained from the minox if you stop using it, and relatively quickly at that. I believe this is independant of the finesteride, because they both work in different ways (although they are known to often work in conjunction very well). If I recall, basically, finesteride might create more new growth, and the minoxidil more just strngthens existing growth, which I guess would include the strengthening of what might otherwise just be insignificant peach fuzz gained from the finersteride into stronger hairs. But alas, no, I don't think finersteride will maintain any gain from the minox.

32 dollars per graft is what I paid. 32 freakin dollars. I was truly a sucker in this instance (I swear I was a reasonable person in general). The job Bosley did has never really been anything but trouble. Like I said, though, I am far from their worst work. Personally I would recommend against the chain outlets for HT's - Stimpy

At least you did not go to Bosley in Dallas. That was my mistake in 1994. I do not remember the doctors name (I think my mind partially has one of those traumatic black outs on this topic). They have done people worse than they did me, but it was still pretty bad. Initially it was okay, because I still had native hair and it just reinforced that, but they did the now infamous minigraft thing, and when my native hair faded it got pretty sketchy. In retrospect, I was such a fool, and they saw me coming a hundred miles away. I was so insecure and naive, and my goodness they were there to take advantage. I got 132 grafts, a number which makes anybody knowledgable on the topic shudder. It was such a damn sales pitch. I actually recall being concerned that they would not accept me for surgery (I seriously mean I was NAIVE). I also seem to recall them using some sort of power tool on my head, like maybe a drill or something. It was a horredous experience. Just to add the final insult to injury, what do you think they charged per graft? I mean I was REALLY stupid. It's hard to even admit this, but since I am in like company here, take a guess, and I will confess. I suspect the price I paid will top pretty much anybody on here. - Stimpy

I agree with Emperor about the "wall of hair" approach. As an HT patient, I naturally have a tendency to try to spot others, and the "wall of hair" patients are ones that I sometimes think I see. What I mean is that I see people with a thick band of hair for a hairline, and extensive balding behind. I don't think any quality docs do this. Indeed I did now a person who naturally balded in this pattern, but it seems to be quite rare. It's kind of like what I imagine a lot of Armani patients will tragically end up with. It is just a bit odd, and it catches your eye, and that is what we all want to avoid. It may be great from the front, but the problem is that in life people are sometimes sitting behind you, standing while you are sitting in a chair, etc. The people with the odd looking patterns like this are sometimes the last to know, because they only see themselves in the mirror from the front or sides (which looks fine). Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the "frame the face" concept, and I am NOT talking about the crown issue at all (you DO see people with full heads of hair and a balding crown). I am just saying the HT has to maintain a natural appearance even behind the frame, and a thick band with baldness behind it does not look very natural. I also fully understand the question you are asking about the "soft" hairline, and I would personally say H&W do really good (see weblog by Jotronic, I think he has a really good "soft" hairline), and also Cooley (see weblog by Bimmerick, he has a really good mature, and very soft hairline), but really I think any of the top surgeons could do this well if you communicate what you want. - Stimpy

Thanks Bill, and hello. I have extensive photos, but due to a horrific hard drive crash the photo documentation now only begins in the ugly duckling phase (I lost all the pre-op and first 3 weeks post op photos). I suppose it could still be worth a weblog, though, and I will work on that next week. Heaven knows I have taken enough from this site, I could stand to give back a little. I will now cease the hijacking of this thread. THanks - Stimpy

I had a procedure with Parsley in Kentucky last December (as well as one 9 years ago also by parsley and a bad Bosley procedure in 1994). I am a few days shy of the 9 month point, and the results are blowing me away! I saw growth at 3 months, but there was not a significant difference until probably after the 7-8 month point. It still gets better every day! The color and texture are changing to match my existing hair, and that is where the REAL cosmetic difference is occurring. Patience, you are only beginning!