hopefull

you know what bothers me guys.Is this whole "privately" thing. I am almost sure feller will want to make it right but he is angry that the patient didnt speak to him first and just went to other doctors and propably thats why he said there is nothing to fix. I guess to a doctors ears is like you did the damage to me so piss off.Other clinics offer free touch ups but that doesnt mean they are better than feller is just means they are not so exploding as he is and they can be more political. but still the hero here is not a doctor or trying give excuses for him. the hero is the patient because he remimded us for one more time the risks and he shared his story WITH US not just with his doctor privately!!!And he gave us reviews from other doctors as well...he gave us the whole story and you know what... this 2% chance of poor growth that i hear from all clinics sounds to me like the 2% chance of getting sides from propecia or that HM is five years away.Its all BS

OK thanx P.S. that is my singature you referred to i didnt wrote it just for the post

this is a nice and long post and certainly i appreciate the fact that its all directed to me since most doctors would not even bother answering... You expanded on many areas and i understand that all patients sign contracts to accept the fact that they might not have good growth.I also understand that no doctor bats one 1000 i hear it every time there is a bad result, i also understand that u planted thinking of his future loss and this case was not high risk...i only said that because nw6 and nw7's are usually bad candidates for a transplant, so if he was evaluated to go there when he was 23 that sounds like a bad candidate What i dont understand why the angry response?My main complain is that the patient was evaluated to have 20 grafts per square cm and he gets a discount for his next procedure not a refund or a free procedure. u say its not your fault he got low growth but is it his fault he got low growth?why he has to pay again to fix a bad result?I know he signed fully knowing what might happen but thats just legal stuff I know everyone holds you high and i know you fight scams and you are a good doctor and such and i honestly like you a lot...if i sounded harsh is because i like patients more

this is very sad...but its the reality of transplants when they are not supported my native hair and when hairloss drugs dont work properly. you went in young with an agressive case of MPB, when propably should never have a transplant. Feller is straight forward and tells many truths about transplants, that is to be respected, though maybe young guys with agressive hairloss should be evaluated more carefully before the transplant if they are such a high risk case. I dont see anything wrong with the patient going online, if doctors had it their way we would never know anything about dissatisfied patients and we couldnt see the other side of transplants. Thank you for posting your result and i wish all the best P.S. Since we are an online community we must keep the same standars when we see dissatiafied patients of doctors. We cannot scream to some doctor bad results and silence on other doctrs so i will say what bothered me... 1.A discount on the second procedure???i would like to hear we will fix it for free since there is low growth. 2.the case was high risk?dont take it on 3.finally...do doctors speak the language of refund when there is a bad result??

What kind of BS is this?"conservative approach" LMAO...the guy just had 2500 grafts on the hairline and temples!!! "dont have 1500 have 1000" LMAO.Yeah as if thats his main problem. To "go back"???the guy had 30%-40% growth!!! "The guys here hate Armani with passion" lol...i bet u 10000 dollars that what we hate more than anything is shills

You are absolutely rigt to be furious...so many wasted grafts!!! I think is safe to say that the pictures are very revealing, this is worst than it looked in the other pictures...also you native hair look superthick compared to the transplanted area so the theory that some angles and pictures make thick hair look very thin is definetely not the case. Is that ridging and pitting that i see in the first picture????!!! Emperor i think you will have to revaluate some of your points...i definetely did this is worst than it looked...30-40% growth means 700-1000 grafts only grew out of the 2500 transplanted... Its not only that 1500 didnt grow, or that these grafts are lost forever,or that he lost propably thousands of dollars is the fact that now he has unneccesary recipient and donor scarring from the procedure.Even if he gets his money back thats nothing compared to what stingray has suffered Stingray i am sorry i made general comments in your thread when your case is very specific...i should have waited to see more pictures On another note your native hair looks amazing man i am sure this can be fixed

Really???!!!

Emperor is again right in my opinion but there surely are many wasted grafts despite the bad pictures another procedure?3500-4000 grafts just for tha hairline and temples? Man we have lost the sense of reality...

I dont think we really diasgree disagree because i included the fact that i see poor growth.On the rest of my points i am a bit bored of saying the same things again and again so lets leave it at that...but i have to insist LL that he was misleaded because of his choise of doctor. Stingray i agree there is low yield i just dont agree in going in for more on the hairline...but its not my decision and if you feel you have a good plan and then go ahead, its not for me to say. thank you for coming out and sharing bro...usually these things get sorted out with us knowing anything...thanx a million you are an asset here

Emperor makes some very good points...but i have to disagree on one thing, this is not how 2500 grafts should look like given the fact that they were used on the hairline and temples only.And thick native hair dont look thin in the picture I ve seen results where doctors use that number of grafts on larger areas and to tell you the truth the result is about the same as this one on the same area.Doctors use the grafts strategically to create an illusion, because that what transplant are an illusion of density, compe them differently expose your self to winds, water and other lements of nature and the illusion starts to loose its effect. Question that rises in thsi case is... 1.Poor growth? 2.Dense packing is overrated? 3.People were misleaded for years to think that they can have superthick hairlines if they went to the magic doctor when in fact only an illusion of density can be created and when different pictures appear the truth is revealed? 4.The hairloss dugs and transplants on people with minimal hairloss(relying on drugs something that transplant surgeons didnt have before) is the true revolution of the hair transplant industry and thats why the after pictures look so good 5. Manipulating pictures showing only the best angles I think its a combination of all five...and to tell you the truth my best advice to stingray would be not to have another procedure over the same area.Keep what you got, you are not butchered or anything but adding more grafts to that area might be a waste.think of the future and think of your self.Propably the clinic would through in another thousand so that you dont complain online and other doctors would try to make it better ...but is it really that bad to have another procedure for the hairline and temples?Cant you just live with it and forget more transplants? the way i see it you are not a failed case you were misleaded and misinformed from the start. And for this there are many people to be blamed in these online communities

you are right and i just have to add one more thing.I always believed that this communities should screen, protect their members from deception and protect the freedom of speech. I mean its another thing to have a banner of product x or doctor x and its a completely different thing letting 2 or 3 salesmen and an army of shills operating and misinforming among the posters!!! I personally find it borderline criminal to cash out on hairloss.I ve bought faulty products, i was even conned and lost money when i was a kid...but this thing it really can mess up a person!!!People should take on this responsibility seriously, all the people that earn through this business.And its not so much the products because even if they dont work you loose some money and thats it...but with surgery you may ruin a persons life. So if you see the wrong you must act if you own a forum and not just put disclaimers or lock threads delete posts etc, if you are a salesman for a clinic you ought to rethink your job if you see deception. just my opinion in the hope of things to get better overall.

It cannot be overstreched enough how manipulating pictures can be.This had led into regulations by many countries where before and after pictures are not allowed for advertising cosmetic products or cosmetic surgery. I mean imagine if someone doesnt know the whole story and sees picture number 2 and the last one.There are many posters that have been saying these for years but still in 2009 we still fall for the same tactic. Videos should be the norm and especially videos with the comp through the hair showing how the hair looks.But still nothing beats seeing a patient in person!!! There have been too many mainpulating tactics and the internet no matter how we try to be safe we really dont know who many people are...so if you are serious about a transplant you have to take your as*** out of the forums and start researching seriously for the last stage of your research before you go under the knife

Hi sting and wellcome to the forum, its good that we have you here mate. I hope it all goes well with your journey.you have strong native hair and a pattern of hairloss that doesnt look bad at all!!! ...you are very lucky mate on that part.cheer up. One question only and if you want to answer if not i respect it.since you didnt opt for a touch up did they offered you some of your money back or something? AND ONE MORE THING THAT IS VEY IMPORTANT notice how good his hair looks in the first pictures!!!i mean these are the typical before/after pictures that the consultans would show us and then we would compare it with the before and everyone would be "oh what a nice result and all" its only when stingrays honestly comes to play where he pulls his hair back and reveals the truth that everyone understands whats going on!!! this tells a lot about how pictures can manipulate a result!!!everyone should be very carefull!!!

I am sure most clinics offer discount/free grafts to patients for allowing the pictures be taken and published, as well as publishing progression through a web log. There is nothing wrong with that since they don't require patients to omit publishing negative results. They don't require patients to sign something ridiculous like this Armani's contract either. Dr.Armani, on the other hand, forbids patients from disclosing/commenting if their result is bad. That is unethical. Perhaps Dr. Aramni is not sufficiently confident in his competence that he includes this clause in the contract. you got me there though it says in the contract that these patients are like consultants and have to wear suits when they meet patients and have Armani e-mails, i ve seen some on hairsite who have Armani e-mail and are available to meet, propably the fact that they have a sales role is undermentioned lol...Still though i dont think its right to do any form of pushing for your doctor with the hope of getting grafts or i dont know what.Its almost pathetic when customers behave like cheerleaders...i remember in the old times patients of doctors where like in war with other doctors patients. Man this whole thing is to laugh and cry at the same time, sometimes i am wondering why i am still here in forums and comment on this stuff, its just so ridiculous and its not only Armani i ve seen other doctors patients cheerleading, they just dont have so much heat as armani and they are more discreet. I am bored and i actually thing they play as for a fool, in certain countries in europe its forbidden to show before and after pictures and here it seems like the standard sales tool...this whole hair restoration thing should finally see some real science with a well respected company offering HM or something. I dont know which doctor is good or bad and i honestly dont care anymore...the best thing someone can do is wait for something better to come along and thats my personal opinion.

what do you mean?Dont you think that these people should state that they document their case for a benefit?shouldnt they state that they work for the clinic?If they are not happy with their peocedure how can they be truthfull when the contract states that they cannot say something negative? I am all about good intentions with you despite that you just came on this site and your only posts are on this thread but how you dont see that this is wrong? On the other hand i am almost certain that most clinics do that

Pats bring the bread in the family???Are you sure you mean bread because according to his independent contract he works for grafts By the way Pats it says in the contract that the independent partner is not an employee of the Clinic???So if this is your contract when was it.. Do you work for a free procedure now in the patient care???Because the contract says that you can only be granted a procedure and not receive compensation in the form of money??? It doesnt sound like a contract that an employee in patient care would sign...the job description requires updates for 18months from the day of the procedure to the time that a transplant result is considered fully grown! Had you signed this contract when you posted on HLH as just a sattisfied patient???

I dont get it?Are you an independent partner or you work in patient care?Are you a consultant and you go to consultations??? You dont receive money but you will get paid in the end with a complimentary FUE procedure? Its all very confusing?!! Also you ask for people for proof regarding unsattisfied patients but you know there were deleted threads in HLH that are now lost...how can people see them? But on the other hand what is this about consultations and wearing suits?Can we see the full contract? Also from the answer i see that the 15000 grafts claim is not repeated here...thank you for that

M&M to refresh your memory, i remember Shane from Armani saying that the average nw6 has 15000-20000 grafts available from the donor to fully restore his hair. Also that 100-150 grafts can be transplanted per sq/cm. You beat me to the question by the way i was waiting for Pats to answer the others first

I actually and honestly am very glad that Pats can post here.We can all ask questions without the fear of being banned or our posts deleted. Freedom of speech at its finest!!!i am very glad!!!I have questions as well but i am waiting for the other questions to be answered. Pats might not have any moderator police to help him out here by bannings or the threads being deleted but lets be nice...we are different and we have character.A good debate might be interesting as long as questions are not avoided and we have some straight answers

This sound like promotional content Bill...

Hey Phoenix thanx for the info, definetely sounds like a scam in my ears.I dont trust any company suddenly being metioned and then a newbee coming in giving a salespeech. Threads like this are the ones that should be automatically deleted.Thanx Bill for spotting the sale speech

just ask your pharmacist for a shampoo with ketoconazole 1%, if you want the low strength one or 2% if you want the strong one about viviscal i am not sure

Thats not really fair because LMS doesn't own a site about hairloss and he does not rip off the benefits of having advertisers making thousands of dollars to pay lawsuits. And to be completely fair i dont think Armani would bother making a case against LMS an internet poster in a court...he would be more believable suing a site that has many of his competitors advertising thus making money that he can claim. but other than that which propably came from frustration...i think the guys are right LMS and we have to support them whichever way they go.Imagine a car crash that the car is on fire and a guy jumps in with the risk of his own life saves you wife and your daughter, but then the fire starts spreading with the risk of the car blowing off at any minute, and he doesnt jump in to save your son also.What are you gonna tell him "Bastard why you didnt save my son as well" or thank him for saving at least your wife and your daughter??? Lets be reasonable this thread means nothing compared to the free speech that we enjoy on the subject...try commenting on other forums about Armani

I ve been saying this for years, what if drugs fail to hold on to the hair you have and you had a transplant too early in the game...if you end up nw7 even the scar might start to show!!! i raised this concern once to jotronic and his answer was "its time for you to prove these claims"?!?!...i think its a very real concern the future loss and in a few years time we will start having more and more cases of people being dissatisfied if they had their transplants too early in the game packing up their nw3 loss with thousands of grafts I say this and i will say it again, we are on our own in this decision and we better be sure that we know what we are doing because noone really knows what our future loss will be or how drugs will hold on to the hair in the future. Fierce competition between certain doctors for the best results have made them push the envelope much further than our donor I think we brought this on ourselves years ago by praising the wrong results without questioning the future loss...or by wanting a full head of hair when our donor can only offer so much.

hey Bill i just made a post and it says that it has a trigger word what happened?