Toad_NW3

Very nice refined looking work Bill. Happy growing!!!! And to your question. Your recipeint area looks just fine. I noticed about two weeks out that whole weird skin in the recipient area, but it slowly resolves and comes back to normal. Remember, you just had a tone of tiny holes poked in your head. Toad

I've been using concealers since about week 4 and I'm sprouting like mad 11 weeks out. I use Toppik just a bit, but now find myself using less!!!! Just my two frog legs. Toad

I would go see another GP. Any GP who knows any thing about proscar should have no problems prescribing it. When I first started taking Propecia, I asked my GP to switch me to Proscar, and he said yeah but had some hesitation in his voice. I didn't care. I eventually went to see another GP (b/c of moving) and just had them re-up my script, no problems. I've had other GPs "off label" other drugs before. It is common practice. I once had a yeast infection under my arm (I'm am a toad after all) and a GP gave me Diflucin (which is for vaginal yeast infections - and no, I"m not that kind of toad). He readily admitted it was off-label use, but commonly used for what I had b/c it was effective. Just my two frog legs. Toad

When I discussed this w/ Dr. Lehr, he said the "mature" hairline is 8mm from the tip of the "furrough" (sp?) which is the muscle that creates the lines on our foreheads. A young man's hairline touches this furrough. So artists like Davinci where giving calculations of the facial proportions on a young junenile hairline. The placement of the hairline is not measured (according Dr(s) like Lehr and Rassman see link) from the eyebrows or chin, but from the musclular makeup of the forehead. Some guys have real shallow foreheads while others have larger foreheads naturally. Some guys have a slanted forehead while others have ones with no slope. Some guys have a rounder face, while others have oblong or shorter faces. It makes sense that a hairline should be designed to match the face the hairline is on. Dr. Rassman explains in his blog: http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/01/12/maturization-of-a...-mature-with-photos/ Intersting read. Also, I've read in many places that when photographic assessment is done for attractiveness, a "somewhat" mature hairline is often preferrable over a juvenile. Just my two frog legs. Toad

First let me say that after looking at your photos I think you will be thrilled in six months. My HT hairs shed at two to three weeks. Some stuck around and grew a bit, but alas all shed by 5-6 weeks. If you have continuing scaps, I know Dr(s) like Rassaman and Bernstein advocate - while in the shower, after hair is wet, let conditioner stand on your scalp for about ten minutes. After the ten minutes under the shower massage gently w/ fingertips and crusts will drop away. I think that is what you still have with the "dead skin." As far as if the hairs in the skin is normal, I think probably. From what I understand as long as blood is not associated, its probably just the HT hair shedding and not follicle loss. After ten days, those babies are in for good! The leather skin feeling in recipient area for me has just recently resolved to where it feels normal. I'm just at 11 weeks po. Happy growing and thanks for sharing your expierences. Toad

Looks like really good work. Happy growing H_T! Toad

Hey Also, I'm gonna have to give those pics and that HT a big thumbs up. Your HT looks awesome. Way to grow! Toad

I think your results are amazing. Way to grow!

Jersey, I think you should be asking your Dr. these types of questions. You might have already done so and are just using the forum as a sounding board to see if you are getting sage advice. If that is the case, then I think that is totally appropriate. But your doctor should totally be willing to discuss anything concerning pain anywhere associated with your surgery. I personally had good days and bad days early on with my donor area. HT surgery has an interesting mix of post-op things happening. The nerves have been cut, you are on medications, you were giving numbing things during surgery, numbness is fading, feelings are coming back in the area, etc. My personal thoughts are that as the nerves regrew, numbness came and went, etc I would have pain (mild aches is more like it, pain is too strong a word) in the donor area, or my neck would get tired, etc. A few weeks in I noticed that the numbness was less, so I would have "strange" feelings in my donor area, kind of a mix of aches and numbness. Even now, some 10+ weeks po, my neck gets tired, my scar itches, or even sometimes has aches, and has strange feelings, but all to a lesser degree than one week out. In short, I think it can be normal, but you are better off talking with your Dr. about this. Toad

LT, I know Dr.s like Rassaman say that in the morning is better b/c that is when testosterone levels are at their peak, but even he says it won't make a significant difference. I think the most important thing w/ propecia is the length of time you are on it. The longer you have taken it, the better results become. Toad

Man Nervous, When I was reading that I started hearing a really cheesy disco music track playing in my head. Toad

Not only does it not contribute to hairloss, it can help prevent sun damage to any area of the scalp that has thin to no coverage. Furthermore, I know some docs have written that highly sun damaged scalp is not a good area for the placement of grafts. So not wearing a hat can in fact hurt your future transplants. I think if your out in the sun for any extended period of time, regardless of hair, you should wear a hat or sunscreen on the scalp. Toad

I waited almost one month. And then it was a "light" session. I agree with B spot. Don't want to put undue pressure on the donor area. It wasn't until recently (at about the 10 week mark) I felt good having vigorous anything (excercise, sex, cooking - hahaha). Toad

I agree w/ both Bill and YoungGuy. It's just that I'm obsessive compulsive and hate not having cut into pieces that look even.

Truth Seeker, Sorry to hear about your expierences and dilemma. I hope everything works out for you. I just want to echo what others have said that you need an in person consultation with either Shapiro or Bernstein. Both are considered top docs. Also, you say you are taking 1/4 pill of propecia a day, but I assume you mean you are taking 1/4 proscar daily to get the same type of dose? Good luck to you. You are among friends. Toad

I agree with Hairbank, see a dermatologist to make sure. But both stress and propecia can cause shedding to occur. Shedding under propecia could be a good sign that it is working. I went through a significant shed on propecia about 6 months into it, stuck with it, and at 1.5 years am very satisfied with how it thickened my crown. Stress can accelerate any type of hair loss. Depending on the hair, it may or may not come back. The rub is you now sound stressed about your hair (we all do) and that may also be contributing. I don't know if you excercise, but I would recommend you doing so to aleviate some of your stress. I would absolutely recommend you stick with the propecia and see the dermatologist to ensure what you are expierencing now is MPB. This community is here to support. Toad

Looking good Gorpy. Happy healing and growing. I think the 1000 grafts are going to do you great! Don't let "today's standards" take you away from what you know better than anyone: your own needs, desires, personal healing expierences,etc. Toad

Another thing to consider is that generic proscar is round but name brand proscar is oddly shaped. Even though under my insurance name brand and generic cost the same, I have recently switched to generic proscar b/c it is round and much more easily cut into four parts. Although I will brag that I have cutting name brand proscar down to a science! Toad

Thanks rjvw and B spot, I'll keep the pictures coming as I can. I wrote a thread earlier under Open Hair Loss Topics earlier today that I swear I see early growth. What I see "growing" is about and inch behind the hairline and proceeding back, it is transparent hair, but longer than vellus like hair and a little wirey. Very exciting. Now just the waiting for the hairs to mature. Thanks to everyone for their comments and encouragment! As all HTers know, the journey is an emotional roller coaster and it is soooo helpful to have others who have been through it to lean on. Toad

Michaelovesync, There are a few threads over in "Open Hair Loss Topics" about this if you want to read what has been discussed. Toad

Hey HTers, I know I'm early and have tried desperately to stick to the patience, wait it out, this is a long journey mindset. But I swear I see growth. In the middle of my scalp, an inch behind my hairline then continuing back until I run into pre-existing hair, I swear I see a ton of transparent hairs. I run my hand through my hair under the light in the mirror and as I run the hand backwards tons of colorless hair bounces forward. Not much on the hair line, except for a few darker hairs that seem to have sprouted (but not many). Is this early growth? I'm just at 8.5 weeks. I have had a ton of pimples since week 5 or so. Am I delusional. I would take pics, but they are not apperant to the naked eye. I will take some and post them anyway. Any thoughts? Toad

Hey HTers, I know I'm early and have tried desperately to stick to the patience, wait it out, this is a long journey mindset. But I swear I see growth. In the middle of my scalp, an inch behind my hairline then continuing back until I run into pre-existing hair, I swear I see a ton of transparent hairs. I run my hand through my hair under the light in the mirror and as I run the hand backwards tons of colorless hair bounces forward. Not much on the hair line, except for a few darker hairs that seem to have sprouted (but not many). Is this early growth? I'm just at 8.5 weeks. I have had a ton of pimples since week 5 or so. Am I delusional. I would take pics, but they are not apperant to the naked eye. I will take some and post them anyway. Any thoughts? Toad

Neptune, From everything I've read and seen, Dr. Epstein is as top notch as they get. Good luck with your upcoming HT, happy healing, and more importantly happy growing! Look forward to seeing your journey as well. Toad

Hey Bill, That is funny. Unfortunately I don't know that I learned not to expierement on myself. I was just curious how long I might be red and since everything that I had read on this forum stated that it was highly specific to the individual, I kinda wanted to gauge where I was. At least I didn't pin prick myself 2000 times. hahahaha I guess the real point is that I'm now 8 weeks out and the only red/pink I have is associated w/ pimples not the surgery. Thanks for the welcome to NN. Back to Neptune's question. I guess the only real thing I can say about blades/needles and the aftermath of surgery is that currently (of course w/o seeing my final results) I would go back to Dr. Lehr in a heartbeat. I am right where he said I would be. I will admit, another part of me is very curious about your question and if I need a follow up, its possible I would consider Epstein, Shapiro, etc with the thought that somehow the healing time would be lessened. These Docs are very impressive from what I've seen. I don't really know if this question can be answered w/o the same person going to two different docs, but even then no two HT are alike on the same person from what I have read. I would be more attracted to the idea that the instruments used and a Dr. who performs the incisions could reduce shockloss. I haven't had a ton of shockloss, but I've had some. I don't know if I will need another HT, but the threads on this forum about shockloss of previously HT hairs bothers me. But then some of those posts are from people who used the very Dr(s) you write of. I read a blog entry from Bernstein, and he states that shockloss can't really be predicted and the use of instruments and skill is a small factor in its cause. I think he meant between good Docs of course. When I talked to Dr. Lehr about blades/needles he explained the concept of using the beveling of the needle to create a more secure area for the graft and a natural look to the hair direction. At that point it was a bit over my head, but he acknowledged the use of blades and mentioned names of Docs who used them and said I couldn't go wrong if I chose them over him. He even discussed how some surgeons have played w/ the use of lasers to create recipient sites, to no great advantage. I asked him if he couldn't perform my surgery who would he recommend and he specifically mentioned H & W, Epstein, Limmer, Bernstein and Rassman. For what that is worth. These are just my thoughts. I should probably get some work done. hehe Toad

Interesting article George. The first paragraph says it is a study that finds that proscar actuall reduces chances of cancer by 25%. Then it gets into the discussion of how it might affect the determination/cause of more aggressive cancers. Dr. Bernstein wrote this recently on his blog. http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/blog/index.php?/archives/184-PSA-levels.html Toad