Al - Moderator

Hi,

I'm very curious about this because I'm in a similar situation where I've had to grow my hair longish all around to try to cover the scars and haven't been able to have a decent haircut in about 20 years.

I did have strip in the late 80's and early 90's but with early strip transplants they created a new scar for every HT surgery rather than building onto the previous scar. I tried several times to get them to piggyback the old scars, but they told me I was crazy and that it would never work because it would only make the scar wider and wider each time.

For reference you can see a few of my old pictures here:

http://members.aol.com/LongScars/photos.html

So anyway, if your donor area was so sparse that you had to have hair transplanted into it and also were able to add hair in the hairline area, I'm wondering where H&W got the hair for that? Did they first spread some back and side hair around to make it more even and then on a later session do a strip through that area to put in the front? I'm leaning towards using armpit hair because it grows the thickest and longest of any body hair and any donor scars created there won't be seen. I figure one underarm worth of grafts to fill in the scars and the other side to spread around in strategic areas on top to add a look of density.

if I attempted to return after all the surgeries I've had (3 with Dr.Wong and 9 with less notable surgeons) either my family would disown me or the clinic would lock their door (just kidding..a little HT humor there).

You're not even close! I'm pretty sure I hold the record by far for both total number of hair transplant surgeries performed and for how many surgeries can be done in the shortest time frame. I had 25 HT surgeries in a 5-1/2 year period. The closest I ever heard to that number was about 17 total HT surgeries for someone who went through a bunch of repair surgeries to punch out most of the plugs.

Originally posted by notgoing2gobald:

I have also considered---given money not being a variable---if you have been "stripped out," that is can not have any more strip procedures because either laxity or donor is prohibiting, or *both,*

-AND-

your baldness progresses to the point where supply does not satisfy demand (i.e. excessive loss in the crown) then going forward w/FUE to fill in the strip scar, so that an acceptable shaved down look can be achieved having an established hair line and enough stubble on top, while at the same time concealing the strip scar would be a very viable and attractive option. As opposed to a *weak* comb over look one would be stuck with to compensate for excessive loss and limited density...

I have only seen a few examples of FUE-ing into the strip scar, but they turned out *very* well. Personally, I don't know why there are not more cases like this as a legit *shaved* look in my opinion is much better than a $hitty comb-over...

As someone who has been maxed out and has the $hitty comb-over I can tell you the reason you don't see more men getting 1000 or more FUE into the scar to make it less noticeable if they shave their head is because if they actually were able to get that many more grafts they would simply put them on the top and not have to do the $hitty comb-over.

Transplanted hair sometimes does start growing sort of curly at first. It will slowly straighten out and get softer, but it can take 18 months to get to a normal state.

Age 15: My mother started yelling at me to stop pulling out my hair. She used to cut my hair and every time she would cut it she would yell at me for it. I used to play with my hair alot and twirl it around my fingers, so she thoght my hair fallout was my fault. That went on for every haircut for maybe 2 years until she finally refused to cut it any more.

Age 16: Got teased about my bald spot from some friends.

Age 17: Got turned down for a date to the prom because she said she wouldn't date someone with no hair.

Originally posted by Dewayne:

Any Dermmatch users testify that they could get similar results?

I have very thin hair all over. I've tried dermatch. I can get a completely full look as if I never lost any hair at all, so it does create a good illusion of hair as long as you have a little bit of real hair as a base.

However I personally don't use it because it feels fake if I put my hands through my hair, it's hard to comb my hair with it in, some of it rubs off, I get worried that people will find out (which to me is worse than just being bald), and the biggest reason is you either have to use it every day wherever you go or else you look bald one day, full head of hair the next day, bald again another day. That is just too obviously fake for me and who wants to go through all that trouble to get it looking right every single day.

I've been using proscar for 11 years. If I stop taking it for more than about 3 days my hair starts falling out. As long as I take it every few days my hair stays in. I don't think it's growing much hair anymore, but it's definitely still helping me keep what I have. I know I'd be a lot worse off if I wasn't using it all those years.

The only one I know of from Wired Technologies looks like this:

Originally posted by wylie:

I saw an interesting report tonight on some kind of celluar experimental medicine that was sprinkled daily on the end of a finger that was severed and..............it regrew.

 

Certainly the future holds regrowth and if a digit was regrown, I'm hoping (hoping!) hair is not far behind.

Yes! This is just what we need. Fingers growing out of our heads. We will actually be able to feel the hair growing.

Hi Carlos. Welcome to the forums.

If you're a NW 6+ then you should probably read this thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=148644

With a high degree of hair loss it may not be possible to get decent coverage although a lot of that depends on your age. How old are you? It will generally take a lot more coverage for a 25 year old to consider it decent than it takes to make a 50 year old feel the same. You should try posting a picture here.

To answer the question of can you go back to get a 2nd procedure. Yes you can if you have enough donor hair remaining. I think most people end up getting 2 or 3 procedures. You can get the front half covered on the first session, so that you'll still have a bald spot in the back, but good hair up front and then you go back later to fill in the rest, but it's not necessary if you're OK with having a bald crown. Doing it that way allows you to wait a few years until you save enough money to pay for the 2nd one in the top/back (if money is an issue).

Originally posted by Janna:

I don't consider fue to be non surgical just because it doesn't require stitches or even that it's touchless. You still need to administer local anesthetic, remove tissue and plant them in another area. It's still surgery.

I agree with you Janna, but my opinion and your opinion don't matter if the laws and medical licensing boards say otherwise.

Yes, techs can assist with just about every aspect of surgery, but with direct supervision of a DOCTOR. Someone could open up a clinic, but they'd still need to hire a doctor as they will need a medical license--or they will go to jail.

Hahaha. I have to laugh at that. Sorry. I'm sure you really do think that stuff is true. I have to ask you, what do you consider direct supervision? Recently there was a thread about Dr Cole ethics. There was a link to someone who had some bad FUE procedures. here's the link:

http://hairtransplantcons.blogspot.com/2008/01/its-neve...mba-its-patrick.html

It's hard to decipher with all his cursing and ranting, but it sounds to me like he's going through the same kinds of things I did. The just call me Patrick thing is something that happened to me. It's a planned thing the way they do it. In my case it was something like "This is your lucky day. You won't have just any Dr working on you today. You'll have the Medical Director". Then he comes in and says "Hi. Dr is so formal. You can call me Stephen". Now in my case there was a Dr who came in, put some novacain in where Stephen marked the area to be worked on and the Dr cut out the strip that was already marked where to cut. Once he was done that he would leave the building and drive back to his General Practice office 20 miles away.

Legally that was all OK because a Dr did every part that was legally required and was available by phone if they needed anything, so they could claim he was overseeing the process. In fact the company was run by several Dr's who were active in the business, so they technically were supervising/overseeing all of their 5 or 6 clinics in NJ, NY, and PA. There were several class action lawsuits and several individual suits, but nobody ever went to jail, nobody lost their license, nobody even got a fine. They are still in business today.

Moving on with that, I think the reason that FUE guy can't get anywhere is because that Patrick person didn't have to be a Dr, so there's no recourse. Even though it's clearly in the literature that he was a Dr (same thing happened to me) it doesn't matter because he doesn't have to be one. It would only matter if he performed duties that required him to be a licensed Dr.

So my question is what's stopping a Dr from opening several clinics and hiring consultants and techs to do everything while claiming the place is run by a Dr which it is... he's just not there during your HT, but he does run the business and is available if they need him. This was harder to do before because you actually did need a Dr to come in and take out the strip, but now you don't need that if you do FUE, so I'm thinking there's a chance the HT industry as a whole might soon be going backwards a bit to when there were a lot of butchers in the industry.

HLBD,

As for Hairmax, it says on their web site that they previously sold a single laser comb in Australia where the company began and they started selling a newer model in the USA in 2001. Of course they don't say the old one was ineffective, just that the new one is more effective. Most products do improve over time.

As for FDA stuff I admit I don't know much about that, but at least we agree that other companies don't have to do studies for something already approved. The whole FDA thing is a gray area anyway. You can use lotions, shampoos, skin creams, etc without going through the FDA, but minoxidil that you only rub on your head, no different than all those other things I just mentioned had to get approval. I wonder if it wasn't already under FDA guidelines for oral use for other treatments if they then could have simply sold it as they please. Why wouldn't they be able to do that?

But back to the laser comb. That didn't need FDA approval either. Hairmax got approval last year but was already selling them in the USA since 2001. I think it was more of a marketing thing. If they could get it approved as a medical device than they can claim it's FDA approved "to promote hair growth" (that's the FDA wording) rather than only being allowed to say it can make your hair seem shiny and full looking.

So if it's something that didn't need approval anyone can sell them. Also anyone can claim that laser combs are FDA approved because that's true as long as you don't claim that your specific comb or design has been approved.

Very well written. I completely agree.

HLBD,

Hairmax's older model from several years ago used a single laser with mirrors, but their current laser combs use either 5 lasers or 9 lasers depending on which one you buy. The FDA approval was for a multilaser model, not the old single laser comb.

darkmanhyk,

As for the wired technolgies laser comb, it looks to be a pretty good deal at $79.95. It has 9 actual lasers at the same power ratings as Hairmax (650NM/5MW). It also gives you the option of either plugging it into an outlet or using it with the rechargeable battery.

While THEY didn't get FDA approval for THEIR device, it's just like using generic medicines. The original manufacturer gets FDA approval and eventually other companies are allowed to make the same pills. They of course don't need FDA approval for theirs because the active ingredients are already approved.

If you want to try using a laser comb but don't want to spend a lot of money on something you're not sure will work then this might be a good comb to try.

Ok wait. I didn't mean to be bashing any techs. In fact the techs who were working on me seemed to care about me more than the Dr/person in charge and they were probably better at placing grafts too.

But I think when you have a good experience you tend not to give much thought to how it got done as long as it came out right. When you have a terrible experience you think about it for years.

So follow me a bit here. So far you all agree that techs can place grafts.

What about taking grafts out if it's FUE? Legally it's not considered surgery because the incision is small enough and requires no stitches (same reasons a tech can place grafts). That's how they can get away with calling it a non surgical and no touch.

So if a tech can remove grafts and place grafts, all you need is a nurse anesthetist and there you go. No doctor needed to perform hair transplants. Can't you see that coming real soon?

And it's not just hair transplants. What about all these new laser (oh I hate to even say that word now LOL) surgeries. Liposuction by laser that burns the fat that's underneath the skin, laser brain surgery, etc. My girlfriend last year had a fibroid tumor on her uterus and was looking into having it removed with a laser.

with all of those things there's no cutting involved. I'm sure real soon some money hungry crooks will realize that and start some clinics where there's no Drs involved. They won't need malpractice insurance because they aren't Drs. You can't sue them for malpractice because they aren't Drs. They can't lose their licence because they never had one and don't need one. Can't you see this coming?

Women want a man with money and good looks. Unfortunately for us to get those good looks it will cost us all our money. Keep using that Alba doll.

Jrbrass,

How long have you been using rogaine? That's pretty much what you get after the first few months of use. Some fine colorless hairs and hopefully they will grow into longer thicker hairs eventually. On some people they do and on some they don't.

OK. Here's what I did. A few days ago I took some pictures of areas where I'm getting new growth. I tried to show areas along my hairline and sides, so we'll be able to easily see if any new growth shows up in the next few months. I'll take pictures again in 3 months (or sooner if I see new growth). Again let me point out that I'm not trying to prove it works, I'm simply trying to give my account of what's happening to me, so this will actually be good for me as well.

right side

Left side

Back

i too have yet to see a single laser result that showed to me that it worked.

I already posted a link to the Sunetics before and after photos. Some of them looked pretty good to me. If you say you haven't seen any pictures that show it works it's either because you don't want to look or you're trying to write them all off as different lighting and angle techniques to make it look like there's more hair.

You have to remember that you can't compare it to a hair transplant. If you're looking for that kind of growth where the before picture is a NW 5 and the after picture looks like a full head of hair you're not going to find that.

Hi Arachas,

I see that was your first post. Welcome to the forums.

There were some posts and a video by MichiganBaldy some time back. I watched his video at the time and I think he talked about using smaller hairpieces with less hair and sort of stretching it slightly so it fits tight.

I did some searching and found the link to his video. Here's his explanation for how to download it:

Go to this link- http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JNLWCF0Z

and in the upper right hand corner you will see "download" it might be covered up by a pop-up ad so you`ll need to close that first.

Anyhow, you will see 3 letters that say please enter (the letters) here.

Enter the letters you see into the box then click download. You should see a timer that counts to 45 seconds, then your default media player will start to play the video."

 

As I assumed (hopefully reasonably) that those who are destined to this desert dry follicular state do not reach it until they are 60+

The thing is though that these men don't have great donor hair until they're in their 60s or 70s and then suddenly one day they are NW 8. When you see someone in that NW 8 stage the process of donor area thinning has been going on for years. As the hair thins in that area it would also be thinning in the recipient area if they had a HT.

Also when you see someone who fits that catagory don't just assume he's 70 +. A lot of these guys just look older than they are because of the extreme hair loss they have. My uncle was a NW 7 with very little hair on his sides since he was around 40 He's in his 70s now and so it's a lot worse now. He still has a bit of hair in the back, but above his ears is hardly anything.

Here are some pictures of myself I took a few days ago. These should show you what I mean. I'm 40 years old now and I know I would look alot worse if I hadn't been on Proscar the last 11 years. I actually looked just about the same as this at 30.

Here are 3 pictures of the right side. I took these all the same day in different lighting, so you couldn't say it was the light that made it look a certain way. You can see there is thinning over the entire area.

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_left_1_020508.jpg

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_left_2_020508.jpg

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_left_3_020508.jpg

Here are 3 pictures of the right side. I had more trouble getting a good picture of this side, so no lighting differences.

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_right_1_020508.jpg

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_right_2_020508.jpg

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_right_3_020508.jpg

Here's a picture of the back. You can see where the loss is going up to and slightly past the HT donor scar.

http://users.aol.com/longscars/picts2008/hair_back_01_020508.jpg

Thought I'd throw in another post. This looked like a good place for it. I'm sure you're all tired of my long postings.

I wore a hair system prior to the HT. I knew I was going to be a NW 7 in a few years because my hair was falling out very fast and I had the same pattern as my uncle who started losing his hair in his teens and had hardly any hair at all on the sides of his head by the time he was 40. I first went to a dermatologist and didn't really get an answer as to why my hair was falling out. He said the hair pull test indicated my hair wasn't falling out, so whatever condition I had was gone and I shouldn't worry about it and I'd have a lot of hair for years to come. He was obviously a complete moron, so I went to a "physician who specializes in hairloss" or so the company claimed (I found out several years later that the person handling my case wasn't a Dr., but he was the "Medical Director" and was the one you were sent to if you wanted to talk to the Dr.). As I said I was already wearing a hair system and knew I was really unlucky when it comes to hair, so I was hoping to at least get some real hair in front and maybe build up the sides, so I the hair system would look more realistic. I figured if that was the best I could get at least it was an improvement.

They told me I was crazy for only wanting to hide the problem rather than fix it. He said people are bald because they don't have surgery to correct their hairloss. I still had enough hair that he could save mine, but if I waited much longer I wouldn't have enough for him to be able to help me. He said it was like going to a dentist. If you have a cavity you can go to a dentist and get a filling. If you wait until it starts to hurt, you may be able to have a root canal and still save the tooth, but if you wait too long, your tooth will be totally rotted out and it will fall out or need to be pulled. Don't do that with your hair. Save it while you can. It's not something that will kill you if you don't have this surgery, but once it's gone you can never get it back. Why let that happen? You wouldn't let all your teeth fall out.

That was the sales pitch. After I asked a bunch of questions and said I wanted to make sure the sides don't get thin he said they can do an extra procedure during each HT session that "doubles the amount of hair in your donor area" (that quote is even in their literature believe it or not) and guarantees I would never run out of hair. They charged me an extra $150 per HT procedure for that. This is no joke. It's even marked on their billing notes for each procedure as an additional $150 charge for this.

Now I'm going to get into another point:

I am totally against having consultants who are not licensed Drs do consultations on patients. I know some of you on this forum are consultants and nothing against you guys personally because I don't know you, but don't you realize that some people, especially the younger guys, are coming to hair transplant clinics because they are looking to go to a Dr to find out why they are losing their hair and what they can do about it? They think they are talking to a Dr. When/if you recommend surgery to them some of them are NOT going to know that they don't have to do it. I'm saying these things from personal experience, so I know it happens. This isn't a theory.

I also totally disagree with techs placing the grafts. This is surgery. It's a transplant. Would you want a tech putting in your transplanted liver, kidney, heart, whatever? I sure wouldn't. Now you can say it's no where near as comlex as that and you're right, but isn't it still tissue transplanting? Doesn't anyone think there are some ethical issues here? Both with having a non Dr consult with potential patients and having non Drs performing parts of the surgery.

Originally posted by notgoing2gobald:

Out of curiosity: was the "killing yourself contemplation" added for dramatic effect, or were you serious? How did you eventually come to grips with your situation?

I seriously wanted to kill myself for a lot of years. This was AFTER the HT, not because I was thinning. Sure I was depressed and worried about my hair loss just like anyone else who is losing their hair at a young age, but I didn't want to kill myself until AFTER what was done to me.

I took a year off of work to have my HT since they said it would take a total of 3 procedures and take 1 to 1.5 years to be fully grown out and completed, so I figured I'd just take a year off, so I wouldn't have to worry about anyone finding out, looking horrible during the healing, etc. All the things everyone else wonders about when they think about having a HT. One year out of work turned into 5.5 years of having 25 HT procedures. That's an average of about 1 procedure every 2.5 months for 5.5 years. So yes I was in such bad emotional shape at that point that I just wanted to die. No money, no job, and I looked like a freak.. and the worst is feeling that you have abosuletly no control over it. Whatever i did to try to fix it, it would just get worse. I would drive my car 100 mph down the road late at night and just want to slam into a tree or drive off the overpass. I'd grip the steering wheel so tight while trying to talk myself out of it trying to convince myself that the next procedure might work, another Dr might be better, etc. I had some really bad days when i would trash the whole house, rip down the wallpaper, smash the mirror, want to hang myself, etc etc.

How did I finally get past it? Well I can tell you what I didn't do. I didn't start drinking, I didn't use drugs, I wouldn't even see a psychiatrist when my mother tried to make appointments. I knew what my problem was. I didn't need another Dr trying to tell me. I had enough of the Drs. Putting me on pills wasn't going to solve my problem. It would have just kept me in that state for the rest of my life. I just kept trying to tell myself that this as the worst it could possibly ever get which means things can only get better, so I can manage to stick around another day and see what happens tomorrow. I had to keep telling myself that every day. It wasn't easy.

I eventually decided I wanted to live my life. I think just getting older made me a little more OK with it. It's not as bad at 35 to be bald as it is at 21. I decided one day to stop wearing a hat and have never worn one since. I started working. I actually have a job where I have to wear a suit and meet with new people every day. Yeah I look ugly, but I make good money, bought my own house, and do what I want to do. It still bothers me of course, but you can't let it run your life.

Now that I have money I decided to come back to the forums and see if there was anything new that could be done and here I am.

Originally posted by flyby:

Hi BeHappy. I've checked our your story. Sounds like you've been through alot and my heart goes out to you. I would imagine that you would much prefer if you could go just go back in time and never have started the ht procedures and lived life with a buzzed melon correct? Do you ever plan on having a correction procedure.

I had some "corrective" procedures long ago. They removed some of the largest plugs, cut them and spread them around as smaller grafts. All it really did is make the area where they removed those plugs have less hair and it's where my part is. I went back later to have it filled in, but all they put in was 30 mini grafts.

After that I was pretty much turned down by 4 different Doctors/clinics. Two different doctors at University of Pennsylvania Hospital said they couldn't do anything. Nuhart offered very minor refinement in the part area. Another Dr who I can't remember the name (I'm thinking it was Rassman. Did he practice in NY in the 90's?) also offered only very minor work. But both of those required them to take more hair from my donor area which is what I was trying to fix, so in other words they were going to make worse the areas I wanted corrected.

What I wanted to do was take hair from my underarms since I have thick, long hair there. It grows so long I have to trim it once in a while or else it gets almost to my elbows. I thought that hair would be perfect to put on my head, but I got told it was a crazy idea and would never work by each of the doctors I went to and yet some Drs are doing body hair transplants from areas that will have visible scars and the hair is short and fine. I don't get it.

I know body hair isn't proven. Perhaps it's because the areas are too mushy to get good grafts in those areas with FUE as Dr Feller says even happens on areas of a persons head sometimes. Perhaps it's because the short, finer hairs just don't grow well on your head. Perhaps it's because FUE simply doesn't work as well. I don't know, but it seems to me if you do a strip surgery on a patients underarms you eliminate all of those potential problems. You don't have to remove the hair by FUE. Take a strip of hair that grows long and thick from each underarm. I don't see why it would be different from using a strip from your head other than you won't get quite as many grafts. But there's no visible scar, no problems with FUE, no problems with hair not growing long enough to provide coverage, etc. Am I the crazy one!? If a Dr will do body hair, why will they not take it from that area?

Ugh!!

This is exactly what happened to me, so it is something that you need to watch out for especially if you're younger.

I was a NW 5 when I had my first HT at age 22. I was losing hair rapidly, so for the next 5 years I had to keep having surgeries to try to catch up to the loss. I was losing hair faster than it was being replaced. At the end of those 5 years I was a NW 7 at age 27 with a small sprinkling of hair all over the top of my head and hairloss on the sides and back that progressed past the donor scars.

For anyone who reads this thread or any of my other posts on laser combs:

I never set out to try to prove that this works. It was someone else's idea to have a forum member try using a laser comb and post about their results. Some people tried to get Bill to use one since his word would be one of the most trusted. Not a single person wanted to try using a laser comb at the time.

I will say right now that I do NOT feel that a laser comb is ever going to replace hair transplants. I hope I never gave anyone that impression. If I could get a decent HT I would certainly do that instead of trying other methods to get hair on my head. If you have any significant hair loss, you probably should look into getting a quality HT by a coalition Dr.

I can't have a hair transplant because my donor area has already been over depleted. I had been on proscar for 10 years and was looking for something that might start some new growth, so I decided to try using a laser comb and said OK, I'll let everyone know how I feel things are going with it. That's it. That's all it ever was. I'm not here to argue with anyone about the effectiveness of laser combs, I'm not here to fund an independent study and I shouldn't be expected to. I'm not here to prove laser combs work, so I shouldn't be expected to post proof. I'm not here to stop using other treatments that have worked on me just so you can be sure it's the laser comb that's working and not something else. I simply tried to give my account of how I feel things are progressing, good or bad. I agree I should have tried harder to take pictures, but honestly I thought the improvement if I had any at all was going to be only minor and you could just explain it away by saying there's different light, different angles, etc, so I didn't think it was very important.

I admit i sort of became a spokesperson for laser combs, but not because I feel everyone should be using them. In fact I've posted that I haven't recommended them because it could be that it only works for a very small percentage of people and maybe I'm one of the best cases. I only know that I'm growing hair. I don't know if you or anyone else will.

Around the same time I started to see what I felt were the start of new growth and improvements to my hair while using the laser comb, Dr Feller came out totally bashing it and I didn't think that was right because after using it I felt there was some benefit even if it might be minor. I don't see anyone bashing revita or nizoral shampoo even though just about everyone here feels it won't grow any hair and any possible benefits are minimal, so why are you bashing a laser comb if some people are saying it's helping a bit?.

If you were to go back and read some of Dr Fellers statements on laser combs he was so ridiculous. I would have totally agreed with him if he said he can't recommend it at this time because he hasn't seen any real proof as of yet and didn't feel it was ever going to pan out to be anything worthwhile. What he did though is go way beyond that without any proof of his own on why it can't work.

What happened then is a lot of people believed Dr Feller as if he did have proof that it didn't work which was not the case. There was a thread not so long ago where someone stated that I was the only one who ever said they had good results. Well that is simply false, so I posted the comments from people who said it did work. Not because I'm trying to prove that it does work, but because I think it's the wrong way for this forum to be headed if you're going to offer one side of the story when people ask for opinions.

Anyway, that's it. I have no real proof that laser combs work other than links and testimonials from others. Whether any of those are true or not I have absolutely no idea, but to keep trying to hide them as if they don't exist is dumb.

I don't manufacture laser combs, I wasn't involved in any kind of study, I don't sell laser combs, etc, so I shouldn't be expected to provide any kind of proof. All i know is since I've been using a laser comb, my hair is growing. You are free to decide for yourself if you feel I'm lying, it's the proscar, any other things you want to decide. I was never here to change anyone's mind about it.

For now I will try to stay away from the laser comb debate because I'm really not here to fight with anyone.

One last thing: If you tried something and were seeing results, what would you say to others on here who insist it doesn't work?