Al - Moderator

The site listed in the first post of this thread is not a scam. It's just a very old site that was originally put up I think sometime in the mid 90's. I remember seeing this site way back when I was on the hairloss newsgroups before Pat decided to start this site. The guy had a really bad hair transplant and eventually decided his best option was to get a hair system. What is so wrong with promoting an option that you are using? Aren't we all doing that here in our signatures? We post what doctors we went to and how great we think the result was. I made my signature a few weeks ago about my laser comb usage.

All those horrible posts on the site are because that's how hair transplants were in those days. There was hardly ever anyone who was happy with it. Look at some of the people who go for repair work now. If you had a HT like that wouldn't you maybe start thinking about a hair system to cover it up?

I never posted a link on here to my own site I've had for 10 years now because it too is mostly a very old site, but here goes for comparison

http://members.aol.com/LongScars/

I encourage you to take detailed monthly pictures to document your progress. Very few people are convinced by claims to success without visual evidence.

I did take pictures early on, but unfortunately they didn't come out very clear. How do you guys get clear detailed pictures? When I took the first set I decided to take pictures every 2 months, so I'll be taking more next week.

OK. I listened to the broadcast. Dr. Feller is so close minded about the whole thing. He acts like he knows everything about why hair falls out, what makes it grow, what doesn't. You'd think if he knows how hair growth works he would have a cure by now. What a joke.

dr Feller says when he was at a lecture and they started discussing laser therapy he didn't even want to hear it and walked out. How can he say he knows it can't work if he refuses to even listen to findings?

he says he wants proof, but then says scientific findinds are no good, people claiming it works is no good, and the real thing I find amazing is that he even says photos that show improvement don't count! Yes he really said that. OK. So why do photos count in minoxidil and propecia studies, but they don't count in laser studies?

I decided to do my own study. So far it's growing hair on my head, but I'm sure that doesn't count as proof to Dr Feller, but that's OK. He can continue claiming it doesn't work. I'll keep growing hair.

I was pretty much totally bald by the time I was 22, so yeah it happens to some of us unfortunately.

Originally posted by spineguyscott:

It seems the good Dr isn't putting much emphasis on HT surgery these days. I can't even find a link or mention of it on his new site. If you need boobs though, looks like the place to go......

LOL. Well I don't blame him. If I had the choice, I'd much rather look at women's boobs all day as opposed to some guy's bald head.

Back then they all told you how great the procedure would be. The booklets I received said you would get a completely full head of hair, no scars (I even paid $150 per session for a guarantee of no scars), unlimited donor hair because the hair continues to grow in those areas, etc., etc. The L.I. Medical Associates claims were so much more full of lies and exaggerations than the CHC/Puig booklet, but the CHC booklet showed a lot of guys with full heads of hair, but no before pictures of any of them, so you have to wonder if they really had hair transplants.

I know L.I. Medical did show fake photos and I know other places did too. That's how it was back then. They would show a guy with a great hairline and tell you how realistic they can make a hairline, but what you don't know is that person only had grafts in the crown and the hairline you're looking at IS his real natural hairline. Thee was another one when they showed so-called amazing results with their new technique that they had just started and the picture was a picture I had seen in one of their booklets years earlier.

Unfortunately the damage had already been done on me by the time I found out most of this (you didn't realize it until you experienced it and kept seeing the newer brochures and booklets and then you realize they are lying to everyone). There was no internet back then to find out about this stuff.

I had consultations with 2 places and both gave similar estimates, but I could have gone to 10 and still would have gotten the same general claims. The ONLY people doing hair transplants in those days were con artists. There was no way to get a good result, so anyone Dr who actually cared about a patient wasn't doing HTs.

If you remember Grace's posts about Bosley she tried to say the technology wasn't there 15 or 20 years ago, so you can't hold that against the Bosely clinics today. Well YES I CAN! If Bosely admits the technology wasn't there then why was he doing them and claiming they are so great!? Just because technology has caught up to his claims over the years does not mean we should all suddenly trust him!

Some pretty awful stuff. I find it very interesting that Lou Amico is shown with before and after photos and a testamonial from him in the CHC/Puig Medical booklet because he is also shown with those before and after photos in the old Long Island Medical brocures as a patient of Long Island Medical Associates.

I had consultations with both Cleveland Hair Clinics and L.I. Medical. I must have gotten a newer booklet from CHC than the one on that site because Lou Amico wasn't in the one I got. Wish he was. I would have known something was wrong if I saw the same guy in both clinics booklets.

Minoxidil can really dry out your scalp, so yes it can cause or worsen flaking in some people.

if you did not like the plan of action why did you go ahead with the procedure.

He said he had already paid for it before going. There was a discussion about this some time ago. Some doctors require payment several weeks in advance. I disagree with doing that. I can see maybe a $500 deposit, but I can't see requiring more than that. Why should someone get paid full price for not doing any work? I can't see how a doctor can claim they have the patient's best interest in mind if they take your money first and then make a plan that you may not like without offering the money back.

Originally posted by morenewhair1:

I might add that we have many mutual friends and I think its best just to not tell her. What if we break up and she spills the beans. I'd rather not chance that.

The thing is if you have the same friends, SOMEONE is probably going to find out you're lying to her about it and tell her.

If you break up and she tells people, so what. It's not going to matter. Besides once your hair starts growing in most people are going to know you did something anyway.

Whoa! Let's stop insulting his girlfriend and friends. We don't know anything about them. His gf could be the hottest, sweetest babe. Just because he's not sure if he should tell his gf about it (totally understandable in my opinion) that doesn't make her fat, a bitch, slut, etc. Insulting his girlfriend is not how to answer someone's questions.

Originally posted by Unidel:

I know I probably shouldn't buy into it but having prolonged sexual side effects after the drug is discontinued gives me trouble. If it is something that becomes a problem but something I can just give up the drugs and solve, I wouldn't be so apprehensive, but even the chance of it going beyond the drugs life scares me.

Maybe I should ask my doctor about it... if it's possible to have prolonged effects after ceasing the drug.

If you were taking any other medication and had a bad reaction you would change your meds or reduce your dosage, so just do the same kind of thing with propecia. The problem with some people who want to cry about the negative side effects is they refuse to make adjustments. They want to either take a large amount or none at all... and the thing is propecia works almost as good at very low doses.

The recommended dose is 1mg a day. Start out taking .5mg every other day for a few weeks. You will get benefits even at that level. If you have problems at that level, then I would probably stop taking it. If it's not giving you any negative effects then raise it to either .5mg every day or 1mg every other day. If that gives you trouble then just back it down to the .5 every other day and stick with that. If you're still OK you can try going 1mg a day if you want to.

Tell her you're having it done. If you don't, she'll just be pissed that you didn't tell before you did it. When you tell her, if she doesn't like the idea at first, then mention how hot you will look in 6 to 9 months time. If she still doesn't like it don't worry because you'll have fun getting new girlfriends.

So how did the chat go? I work Tuesday nights so I wasn't able to be there.

Are those chats able to be logged? I don't know if that's doable, but if it is then for the next chat you should try saving the entire chat and then posting it. That would be interesting.

While a scalp reduction is a really bad idea on a bald scalp for hair restoration, it can be the right choice for other conditions. For example if you had a tumor or lesion and had surgery to remove it (basically a scalp reduction) that would be the right thing to do. Yes you would end up with a scar, but you eliminated the condition that was worse than having a scar. Also the scar can later be covered with some grafts to cover it.

Here's another example. A strip surgery in your donor area to remove grafts is a scalp reduction done in an area where it won't be very visible because the hair around it will cover the scar. It's acceptable in many cases to do it because you're getting a benefit of more hair in your balding area.

So yes I think a scalp reduction can be the correct choice depending on your overall condition.

hehe. No I'm not taking this personally. I actually wanted to wait another few months before I gave any results just to be sure what I'm seeing so far isn't temporary, but when you're using a product that seems to be working, it's hard to not chime in when others claim it can't be happening.

I have nothing against Dr Feller. If I wasn't using the laser comb I'd probably agree with most of what he says on the subject.

I also probably wouldn't have bought one if I had other options, but my donor area is more than depleted so I can't have any more transplants and I've been using proscar for 10 years. There seemed to be at least some evidence that it might work, so I decided to try it.

I wouldn't have bought it at $400 but when I saw I could get a 6 laser comb for about $129 I figured it was worth a try.

I said I'd let you know either way if it worked for me or not. If I didn't feel it was working, I'd be here saying Dr Bauman is crazy just like Dr Feller is doing and that's actually what I thought was going to happen, but to my surprise, so far I seem to be growing hair. Go figure!

Oh by the way, I did take a few pictures a week or 2 ago. They didn't come out as clear as I hoped (it's hard taking pics of your own head!), but I'll try to take more once a month. I'll give a full report and show pictures at the 3 or 4 month mark. Good or bad we'll see what happens.

I hope I didn't scare Feller away! That was not my intention. He said he was trying to get the topic going, so I did :-) If it turns out in a few months that all the little hairs I'm growing all fall out and I end up with no growth then I'll be back here saying he was right.

Here's more. Feller says:

We already know that cells that have dht receptors receive a signal to kill themselves when dht arrives. That is the accepted mechanism of hairloss and it is called apoptosis. This means that the programming within the cell is altered to cause it's own death.

OK. I won't argue with that. I'll get back to that in a bit. He goes on to say:

Now, if you "energize" the mitochondria, the "powerhouse of the cell", then all you are doing is giving it more fuel to carry out its established programming- WHICH IS TO CAUSE CELL DEATH. This will accelerate hair loss, not slow it or reverse it.

 

-- snip to another of his posts --

 

Putting more "energy" into the cell would not stimulate it to grow better hair. If anything the opposite would be true. Hair doesn't fall out because the "energy level" of the follicle is falling due to age or "rotting". It falls out because the cells of the follicle were programmed to die. The process of hair loss requires energy to occur. Therefore, putting MORE energy into the system would either do nothing or simply hasten the hair loss effect.

 

If he thinks using laser therapy will accelerate hair loss then we would be seeing after pictures that look worse than the before pics and this whole laser debate would be over in a hurry. We aren't seeing that as far as I can tell. But the fun part of all that is in the next sentence he says this:

And just so we are clear, i don't buy that lasers can "energize" cells!

OK. So after all the talk about how if it energized the cells it wouldn't work, he says he doesn't believe it energizes the cells. OK, so he just eliminated his own argument about why it can't work. Perhaps something OTHER than energizing the cells is what laser therapy actually does. Sure I know that's what the advertisong calls it, but that's just advertising hype to make it sound good. Let's look past that.

Now let's go back to the beginning about DHT receptors and cells/follicles being killed when DHT is there.

Here's what I feel is happening based on using a laser comb for 6 weeks. Note that I don't claim to be an expert. This is just what I THINK is happening. I believe using the laser comb every day is breaking up the DHT in the follicle which is allowing the hair to grow better. Propecia stops the DHT from getting to the follicle, but it seems to me that laser therapy is breaking up, eliminating, disolving the DHT that does get to the follicle.

Here's why I think this:

My head and hair is less greasy since I've been using the laser comb. I don't get the gunk and hard sand like particles stuck in the pores/follicles that push the hair out. This is what seems to be making my hair feel softer and more manageable. It's less greasy and not weighted down after 8 hours of working all day.

I've been able to cut down on how much propecia (proscar) I use because there doesn't seem to be as much problems with DHT any more. I do keep using it at a lower dose because I feel like I'm coming at it from both sides. Less DHT sent to the hair and what is getting there is being disolved.

I feel that's what's allowing my hair to grow. This also explains why it's claimed to work better on people who have some miniaturized hairs. It allows them to grow rather than being killed by the DHT.

So there ya go.

I am going to have to go back and look, but did Dr. Feller state that cashiers would have hairy palms from working under lasers?

Bill,

Here is what Feller said in his first post in this thread:

Why is it that grocery store check out clerks whose hands are exposed to laser light all day do not complain of excess hair growth on the hands or forearms? Why is it that people who work in laser printer factories or laboratories that use lasers all day have not reported unwanted hair growth? The obvious answer is that there is no such phenomenon.

If you think about it this is so ridiculous. If you use minoxidil on your arms and hands you aren't going to grow long head hair in those areas. If you could do that then we just solved the donor area problem. Let's all rub some minoxidil on our arms and grow long thick hair there and then transplant it to our head.

A lot of the stuff Feller is saying sounds like it makes sense until you think about it. Then you realize how crazy his answers are... and yet he thinks it's Dr Bauman who is giving crazy answers.

I hate to get into attacks. I try to state my point without doing that, but I have to say a few things. Feller's reasoning that if lasers really worked then cashiers would have hairy hands is so obviously crazy. I don't see anyone who uses rogaine/minoxidil with hairy palms and fingertips, so is that is proof that minoxidil doesn't work on your head? Of course not! Hair doesn't grow on the inside of your hands or your finger tips! Why should it be different with lasers?

I tried to provide some links to people who say it works. Feller says is that all I have? Well it's not my job to prove anything. I don't sell laser combs. I was simply showing that there are people claiming that it works for them. One was a TV news show where the ONLY thing the guy used for 6 months was a laser comb and he had growth. Another site had a very obvious improvement in the man's before and after pictures. If you don't want to believe it, that's totally up to you, but if you're not going to believe the pictures and posts that show it does work, then saying show pictures to prove it is just all talk. You obviously have your mind made up already no matter what you see or hear on the subject.

A while back I said I thought I was a good candidate for a laser comb if it actually did do what they claim (thicken existing hair shafts and make some miniaturized hairs grow longer and better) because I have a lot of both after using proscar for 10 years.

I started using a laser comb 6 weeks ago and said i would keep everyone updated on whether it works or not for me. I'm trying to not get too much into the debate about this until I use it at least 3 months, but I don't want to be silent either. So far I'm getting a lot more growth than I thought I would at just 6 weeks. I have a small area in the back of my head that's had a few sparse hairs for years and I can't believe how much that is starting to fill in already. I'm getting new growth over the entire top of my head. Most of it is still very fine baby hairs, but it's only been 6 weeks. I'm even starting to get a few hairs in my hairline which will be great if that continues because it will really soften up a slightly pluggy old transplant.

While I don't want to make final judgements on whether the laser comb works or not, I can say I'm definately leaning towards saying Feller is completely wrong on the subject. I'll let you know more in another few weeks.

One has to wonder if the reason they are no longer doing strip is because with the price getting down under $4 per graft it's no longer very profitable to do them compared to doing FUE which they can charge 3 times as much money for.

Anyway... are they willing to hold the deposit for another year? I like M&M's idea about doing a small amount of FUE to use up the deposit, but I think I'd choose to do a strip procedure first with someone else and then 10 months to a year later go to Armani and use up the old deposit for a bit of FUE for fill in.

2. How many FUE procedures should a surgeon have carried out in order for one to feel comofortable with his level of competence?

Just because someone may have performed a lot of procedures doesn't mean he/she will be better than someone else. For example, I've been typing on computer keyboards for years, but I will never do 60 words per minute like someone who spent some time in class learning how to type the right way.

4. Are all transplanted hairs guaranteed to grow in this procedure?

All transplante hairs aren't guaranteed to grow with any procedure whether it'd done by strip or FUE.

5. are there any long term issues that one needs to be aware of with this procedure?

My opinion is the total number of grafts that can be removed with FUE before the donor area is depleted is less than the amount that can be removed with strip. So if you end up with a lot more hairloss as the years progress, you will have been better off doing strip.

It's interesting that some people on these forums will spend several hundred dollars a year for propecia, minoxidil, etc and not really be sure how effective those are on their own hair, and even be wondering what the long term effects are and complaining about loss of libido, yet they refuse to spend $129 to try something that has no bad side effects.

Here are some links to testamonials and proof:

http://www.amazinglasercomb.com/test1.htm

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[url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=F_K_P7CG5MU]http://youtube.com/watch?v=F_K_P7CG5MU

I occasionally trim my underarm hair because some of it grows to a length of 3 inches or more and thick. Wish I had that kind of hair on my head. I also trim a few hairs on my chest that tend to grow longer than the rest. I'd really like to get rid of the hair on my back and shoulders though. If I did a body hair transplant I'd remove my back and shoulder hair so even if the hair didn't grow on my head very well at least I got rid of the unwanted hair.

2 things to watch out for.

1.

If we can't predict how much hair loss a person will eventually have, then we can't really predict the size of the safe area. For example, some men lose hair in a horseshoe pattern and then after the pattern seems to be well defined they start losing hair further down the back as the years go by. What looked like a large donor area later can turn out to be not so large. I think some gys who are NW 5 and have several HT sessions should be careful of this. Also, I think there's been a few pictures of scars that look to be too high in the donor area. Those are some that might end up being not in the "safe" area 10 years later.

2.

When you have strip HT the area is pulled together and stapled or sutured closed. What happens is the remaining hair bearing skin on the sides and back will stretch to compensate. This pulls the remaining follicles in that area slightly further apart from each other. It won't make any real difference if you only have 1 or 2 strip surgeries, but 3 and 4 of them may start to thin the remaing area a bit. It's not much to care about at first, but could make more of a difference years later when/if that area starts to thin naturally as you age.

Just a note. I have lost hair past my scars, so it does happen.

I was trying to stay away from taking pictures because it gets to be too much of a hassle to load them into the computer from the camera and then upload them somewhere. I don't want my hair to be my life.

However I WILL take some before pics tomorrow because I do want to be able to show if it actually works or not.

Be advised they may look a little ugly. I had some transplants long ago that never turned out right. I have a definate line of hair at the hairline from the HT, so if any new hairs grow in front of that you'll be able to tell easily.