Pat - Community Publisher

Yesterday "Perfect Few" hijacked numerous unrelated topics and in order to spew his misinformation throughout this forum rather than debate his issues in an appropriate topic. Thus visitors can not follow the discussion and topics that are not related to these issues are now littered with irrelevant posts. Please post any comments related to the controversy of Dr. Goertz's doctor site or Perfect Fews allegation that I'm making a living publishing his site (God forbid) on either the topic "Doctors bypassing your input" or "Proof of Perfect Fews false allegations". Thank you. Pat

Yesterday "Perfect Few" hijacked numerous unrelated topics and in order to spew his misinformation throughout this forum rather than debate his issues in an appropriate topic. Thus visitors can not follow the discussion and topics that are not related to these issues are now littered with irrelevant posts. Please post any comments related to the controversy of Dr. Goertz's doctor site or Perfect Fews allegation that I'm making a living publishing his site (God forbid) on either the topic "Doctors bypassing your input" or "Proof of Perfect Fews false allegations". Thank you. Pat

Yes, you guys are right to ask for real evidence. Since Imperfect Few can't provide any I will. Imperfect Few, You have called me a liar in multiple topics on this forum for stating that I removed Dr. Goertz due to concerns about the quality of his work. You then falsely allege that I made disparaging remarks about Dr. Goertz after he chose to quit. But you have no evidence to provide. Of course, why would you since you were not involved in my decision to remove Dr. Goertz. You are after all only a patient of his, right? However, I do have proof. I keep all my emails and I spent time searching my correspondence with Dr. Goertz. Below is an email I sent to Dr. Goertz on February 27th of 2005 notifying him that I would no longer continue recommending him on our community due to quality concerns. The dishonesty of your false allegations is easily apparent when my correspondence with Dr. Goertz is read (see below): Dr. Goertz's response to my email and my follow up reply are also included. Once again, know the score before you shoot your mouth off and spread lies across our forum. -----Original Message----- From: Pat - Hair Transplant Network [mailto:pat@hairtransplantnetwork.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:19 PM To: Brian Goertz Subject: Dr. Goertz, We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network Dr. Goertz, I have not received the immediate post op photos that I requested and therefore will not be able to renew your membership in the Coalition or continue recommending you on the Hair Transplant Network. As I mentioned in my previous email the standards for inclusion in the Coalition are now higher and all those renewing were asked to submit these post op photos to be considered for renewal. I'm also concerned by the post op photos I saw posted on our forum by the contest winner you did. In my opinion the incisions are too large and far apart and invasive on the scalp and do not meet our current standards for membership. I have attached this photo for your reference and also a photo showing the type of immediate post op results we expect of Coalition members. You will note the small minimally invasive incisions that are closely placed to allow for good cosmetic density after one session. I hope that you take this feed back in a constructive light. The bar for excellent hair restoration has moved considerably higher in the past two years and our editorial content and recommendations need to reflect these new realities. For now I will not be able to present you on either the Coalition web sites or the Hair Transplant Network.com. If you feel that your patient's posted photos are not representative of your work, now or in the future, please feel free to send them to me and we will reconsider presenting you again on our sites. Thank you for your past support and best wishes for your practice in the future. Patrick Hennessey Dr. Goertz's reply: I am offended that you would cancel me as a recommended physician with such a paucity of correspondence at the 11th hour! You already knew before this posting your new criteria, why was I not informed? If we are truly a "Coalition of Independent Physicians" should we not be judged by our peers? I am completely comfortable by having my work and results judged by them. Would it not be more appropriate for other members of the coalition to be involved in this all important step? As I discussed with you when you first invited me to join and you requested to observe my surgery, it made me uncomfortable. It still is not appropriate for a lay person. I would invite any of my colleagues to observe me and have trained others as well. Again please review the attached photos. If you would like to see more please let me know the size of files you can accept and I will send them. I truly feel my work is second to none, yet try to improve my techniques daily. I have learned much from my colleagues look forward to continued sharing of ideas with them as we try to improve the field of hair transplantation for our patients. I sincerely hope you find this helpful, PS. I did leave you a voicemail on your cell phone this morning but have not heard from you. Please respond by March 1st. My follow up reply: Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Hennessey Subject: Re: , We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network To: Thank you for taking the time to provide me with more information about your surgical philosophy. I know that it is difficult to have a "lay person" make judgments about your work. You are certainly not the first to voice this concern. However, ultimately it is always the lay person who makes the final determination on their choice of treatment and physician. Ideally their decision will be based upon information gathered during a medical consultation with a qualified physician and from comparing notes and experiences with actual patients, on and offline. Today many potential patients look to the Internet as a resource for gathering and sharing credible information. We strive to serve hair loss sufferers by helping to educate them about procedures and physicians who we think are in their best interest. We are careful to not claim to have definative information. We simply offer those visiting our sites the best information we can in an open environment in which they can share information. I have privately observed dozens of surgical procedures first hand in clinics over the past seven years. I've also attended over a dozen hair restoration conferences and workshops. While this does not qualify me to do surgery, it has given me a solid grounding in what constitutes state of the art surgery. I may be wrong in choosing for now to not present you on our sites. But I would rather error on the conservative side than endorse a physician I need to learn more about to confidently endorse. I have made the mistake of endorsing physicians who later did not meet my expectations or those of the patients that found them on our sites. I have found this scenario to be much more troubling than not promoting a physician I'm not completely confident with. I did take your suggestion to heart to gather a second opinion from a hair restoration physician who I trust. This physician was shown the two post op photos of your work anonymously and asked to evaluate them. Like me, he found the incisions to be more invasive than ideally needed and the grafts to be larger than necessary for a truly refined state of the art hair transplant. Much has changed over the past few years and today surgeons are doing work that they would not have imagined just a couple of years ago. I believe that you are a sincere and ethical physician and that you may well be doing truly outstanding surgeries in the near future. I will remain open to learning more about your ever evolving surgery and results in the hope that one day we will be confident in promoting you on our web communities. I hope you understand my need to error on the safe side at least for now. Thank you for your past support. I look forward to the day when we will be able to collaborate once again. Patrick Hennessey, Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Restoration Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center

Wow, all you shills need to chill a bit. Remember I pay on a per post/word count basis and Bill, Hairbank and B Spot have virtualy drained my covert shill account for this month and its only May 13th. How am I going to fuel Hair Force One if you guys keep posting like this? LOLs

I appreciate everyones above input. But it is important to distinquish between posters with valid and sincere differnces and a poster with malicious intent who is willing to lie and malign others to achieve their agenda. I knew Perfect Few was presenting misinformation on multiple occasions/posts. But only after searching my archived emails was I able to find the written evidence (see below). So do we allow a proven weed to take root in our garden and choke it or do we pull it out? I think of a forum as being much like a garden that requires cultivation, nuturing and some times weeding. I think it's time for this gardner to do some weeding, while leaving his previous posts/points in place. If after a time out Perfect Few agrees to respect our forum rules and stay on topic, I will consider restoring his posting privelages. This whole episode with Perfect Few and the good ol' boys Network site he promotes is just the tip of the iceberg. I've been battling the underlying hostility that many physicians have for this community for years. It's great to see it nakedly visible for all to see online. The truth about Mr. Perfect's false allegations: On multiple topics posted on this forum Perfect Few has accused me of lying when I told the truth that I removed Dr. Goertz due to concerns about the quality of his work. Yet Perfect Few had no evidence to provide. Of course, how could he since he was not involved in my decision to remove Dr. Goertz. By his own account Perfect Few is only a patient of Dr. Goertz who presumably does not read Dr. Goertz's emails. However, I do have proof. I keep all my emails and I spent time this evening searching my correspondence with Dr. Goertz. Below is an email I sent to Dr. Goertz on February 27th of 2005 notifying him that I would no longer continue recommending him on our community due to quality concerns. On this forum Perfect Few wrote - quote: This is not true. I asked about a doctor on this forum, and Pat quickly chimed in saying he didn't meet the "standards", which was a bold-faced lie. The doctor in question refused to renew his membership because the fees were basically extortion. I feel sorry for you that you really believe this site is about "patient advocacy". Perfect Few repeated this misinformation in yet another one of his posts: Complete lies. The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it. I feel sorry for you because you clearly have no soul. You consistently make sales calls to Dr. Goertz. That is all they are. When he refused to renew his membership (i.e. pay your extortion) you delisted him. That is the truth. Can you give me ONE EXAMPLE of a patient whose results were not good? You are doing exactly what you say you don't, disguised by a thin veil of the lie. Because you didn't visit his clinic, nor meet any of his patients, how can you make such statements? I can see why he didn't want to PAY YOU to visit his clinic. He is an ethical person. Something that is not natural for you. You sold your soul to the devil, and your time has come. But the dishonesty of his false allegations is easily apparent when my correspondence with Dr. Goertz is read (see below): Dr. Goertz's response to my email and my follow up reply are also included. -----Original Message----- From: Pat - Hair Transplant Network [mailto:pat@hairtransplantnetwork.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:19 PM To: Brian Goertz Subject: Dr. Goertz, We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network Dr. Goertz, I have not received the immediate post op photos that I requested and therefore will not be able to renew your membership in the Coalition or continue recommending you on the Hair Transplant Network. As I mentioned in my previous email the standards for inclusion in the Coalition are now higher and all those renewing were asked to submit these post op photos to be considered for renewal. I'm also concerned by the post op photos I saw posted on our forum by the contest winner you did. In my opinion the incisions are too large and far apart and invasive on the scalp and do not meet our current standards for membership. I have attached this photo for your reference and also a photo showing the type of immediate post op results we expect of Coalition members. You will note the small minimally invasive incisions that are closely placed to allow for good cosmetic density after one session. I hope that you take this feed back in a constructive light. The bar for excellent hair restoration has moved considerably higher in the past two years and our editorial content and recommendations need to reflect these new realities. For now I will not be able to present you on either the Coalition web sites or the Hair Transplant Network.com. If you feel that your patient's posted photos are not representative of your work, now or in the future, please feel free to send them to me and we will reconsider presenting you again on our sites. Thank you for your past support and best wishes for your practice in the future. Patrick Hennessey Dr. Goertz's reply: I am offended that you would cancel me as a recommended physician with such a paucity of correspondence at the 11th hour! You already knew before this posting your new criteria, why was I not informed? If we are truly a "Coalition of Independent Physicians" should we not be judged by our peers? I am completely comfortable by having my work and results judged by them. Would it not be more appropriate for other members of the coalition to be involved in this all important step? As I discussed with you when you first invited me to join and you requested to observe my surgery, it made me uncomfortable. It still is not appropriate for a lay person. I would invite any of my colleagues to observe me and have trained others as well. Again please review the attached photos. If you would like to see more please let me know the size of files you can accept and I will send them. I truly feel my work is second to none, yet try to improve my techniques daily. I have learned much from my colleagues look forward to continued sharing of ideas with them as we try to improve the field of hair transplantation for our patients. I sincerely hope you find this helpful, PS. I did leave you a voicemail on your cell phone this morning but have not heard from you. Please respond by March 1st. My follow up reply: Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Hennessey Subject: Re: , We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network To: Thank you for taking the time to provide me with more information about your surgical philosophy. I know that it is difficult to have a "lay person" make judgments about your work. You are certainly not the first to voice this concern. However, ultimately it is always the lay person who makes the final determination on their choice of treatment and physician. Ideally their decision will be based upon information gathered during a medical consultation with a qualified physician and from comparing notes and experiences with actual patients, on and offline. Today many potential patients look to the Internet as a resource for gathering and sharing credible information. We strive to serve hair loss sufferers by helping to educate them about procedures and physicians who we think are in their best interest. We are careful to not claim to have definative information. We simply offer those visiting our sites the best information we can in an open environment in which they can share information. I have privately observed dozens of surgical procedures first hand in clinics over the past seven years. I've also attended over a dozen hair restoration conferences and workshops. While this does not qualify me to do surgery, it has given me a solid grounding in what constitutes state of the art surgery. I may be wrong in choosing for now to not present you on our sites. But I would rather error on the conservative side than endorse a physician I need to learn more about to confidently endorse. I have made the mistake of endorsing physicians who later did not meet my expectations or those of the patients that found them on our sites. I have found this scenario to be much more troubling than not promoting a physician I'm not completely confident with. I did take your suggestion to heart to gather a second opinion from a hair restoration physician who I trust. This physician was shown the two post op photos of your work anonymously and asked to evaluate them. Like me, he found the incisions to be more invasive than ideally needed and the grafts to be larger than necessary for a truly refined state of the art hair transplant. Much has changed over the past few years and today surgeons are doing work that they would not have imagined just a couple of years ago. I believe that you are a sincere and ethical physician and that you may well be doing truly outstanding surgeries in the near future. I will remain open to learning more about your ever evolving surgery and results in the hope that one day we will be confident in promoting you on our web communities. I hope you understand my need to error on the safe side at least for now. Thank you for your past support. I look forward to the day when we will be able to collaborate once again. Patrick Hennessey, Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Restoration Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center

Bill, Yes, the truth can bite you in the ass if you shoot your mouth off with out regard for it. Be careful posting the truth about Perfect Fews on his own forum. A dose of truth this large could cause him to choke.

On multiple topics posted on this forum Perfect Few, who promotes Dr. Goertz's website "Hair Loss Doctor List", has accused me of lying when I told the truth that I removed Dr. Goertz due to concerns about the quality of his work. Yet Perfect Few had no evidence to provide. Of course, how could he since he was not involved in my decision to remove Dr. Goertz. By his own account Perfect Few is only a patient of Dr. Goertz who presumably does not read Dr. Goertz's emails. However, I do have proof. I keep all my emails and I spent time this evening searching my correspondence with Dr. Goertz. Below is an email I sent to Dr. Goertz on February 27th of 2005 notifying him that I would no longer continue recommending him on our community due to quality concerns. On this forum Perfect Few wrote - But the dishonesty of his false allegations is easily apparent when my correspondence with Dr. Goertz is read (see below): Dr. Goertz's response to my email and my follow up reply are also included. -----Original Message----- From: Pat - Hair Transplant Network [mailto:pat@hairtransplantnetwork.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:19 PM To: Brian Goertz Subject: Dr. Goertz, We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network Dr. Goertz, I have not received the immediate post op photos that I requested and therefore will not be able to renew your membership in the Coalition or continue recommending you on the Hair Transplant Network. As I mentioned in my previous email the standards for inclusion in the Coalition are now higher and all those renewing were asked to submit these post op photos to be considered for renewal. I'm also concerned by the post op photos I saw posted on our forum by the contest winner you did. In my opinion the incisions are too large and far apart and invasive on the scalp and do not meet our current standards for membership. I have attached this photo for your reference and also a photo showing the type of immediate post op results we expect of Coalition members. You will note the small minimally invasive incisions that are closely placed to allow for good cosmetic density after one session. I hope that you take this feed back in a constructive light. The bar for excellent hair restoration has moved considerably higher in the past two years and our editorial content and recommendations need to reflect these new realities. For now I will not be able to present you on either the Coalition web sites or the Hair Transplant Network.com. If you feel that your patient's posted photos are not representative of your work, now or in the future, please feel free to send them to me and we will reconsider presenting you again on our sites. Thank you for your past support and best wishes for your practice in the future. Patrick Hennessey Dr. Goertz's reply: I am offended that you would cancel me as a recommended physician with such a paucity of correspondence at the 11th hour! You already knew before this posting your new criteria, why was I not informed? If we are truly a "Coalition of Independent Physicians" should we not be judged by our peers? I am completely comfortable by having my work and results judged by them. Would it not be more appropriate for other members of the coalition to be involved in this all important step? As I discussed with you when you first invited me to join and you requested to observe my surgery, it made me uncomfortable. It still is not appropriate for a lay person. I would invite any of my colleagues to observe me and have trained others as well. Again please review the attached photos. If you would like to see more please let me know the size of files you can accept and I will send them. I truly feel my work is second to none, yet try to improve my techniques daily. I have learned much from my colleagues look forward to continued sharing of ideas with them as we try to improve the field of hair transplantation for our patients. I sincerely hope you find this helpful, PS. I did leave you a voicemail on your cell phone this morning but have not heard from you. Please respond by March 1st. My follow up reply: Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Hennessey Subject: Re: , We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network To: Thank you for taking the time to provide me with more information about your surgical philosophy. I know that it is difficult to have a "lay person" make judgments about your work. You are certainly not the first to voice this concern. However, ultimately it is always the lay person who makes the final determination on their choice of treatment and physician. Ideally their decision will be based upon information gathered during a medical consultation with a qualified physician and from comparing notes and experiences with actual patients, on and offline. Today many potential patients look to the Internet as a resource for gathering and sharing credible information. We strive to serve hair loss sufferers by helping to educate them about procedures and physicians who we think are in their best interest. We are careful to not claim to have definative information. We simply offer those visiting our sites the best information we can in an open environment in which they can share information. I have privately observed dozens of surgical procedures first hand in clinics over the past seven years. I've also attended over a dozen hair restoration conferences and workshops. While this does not qualify me to do surgery, it has given me a solid grounding in what constitutes state of the art surgery. I may be wrong in choosing for now to not present you on our sites. But I would rather error on the conservative side than endorse a physician I need to learn more about to confidently endorse. I have made the mistake of endorsing physicians who later did not meet my expectations or those of the patients that found them on our sites. I have found this scenario to be much more troubling than not promoting a physician I'm not completely confident with. I did take your suggestion to heart to gather a second opinion from a hair restoration physician who I trust. This physician was shown the two post op photos of your work anonymously and asked to evaluate them. Like me, he found the incisions to be more invasive than ideally needed and the grafts to be larger than necessary for a truly refined state of the art hair transplant. Much has changed over the past few years and today surgeons are doing work that they would not have imagined just a couple of years ago. I believe that you are a sincere and ethical physician and that you may well be doing truly outstanding surgeries in the near future. I will remain open to learning more about your ever evolving surgery and results in the hope that one day we will be confident in promoting you on our web communities. I hope you understand my need to error on the safe side at least for now. Thank you for your past support. I look forward to the day when we will be able to collaborate once again. Patrick Hennessey, Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Restoration Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center

On multiple topics posted on this forum Perfect Few, who promotes Dr. Goertz's website "Hair Loss Doctor List", has accused me of lying when I told the truth that I removed Dr. Goertz due to concerns about the quality of his work. Yet Perfect Few had no evidence to provide. Of course, how could he since he was not involved in my decision to remove Dr. Goertz. By his own account Perfect Few is only a patient of Dr. Goertz who presumably does not read Dr. Goertz's emails. However, I do have proof. I keep all my emails and I spent time this evening searching my correspondence with Dr. Goertz. Below is an email I sent to Dr. Goertz on February 27th of 2005 notifying him that I would no longer continue recommending him on our community due to quality concerns. On this forum Perfect Few wrote - But the dishonesty of his false allegations is easily apparent when my correspondence with Dr. Goertz is read (see below): Dr. Goertz's response to my email and my follow up reply are also included. -----Original Message----- From: Pat - Hair Transplant Network [mailto:pat@hairtransplantnetwork.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:19 PM To: Brian Goertz Subject: Dr. Goertz, We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network Dr. Goertz, I have not received the immediate post op photos that I requested and therefore will not be able to renew your membership in the Coalition or continue recommending you on the Hair Transplant Network. As I mentioned in my previous email the standards for inclusion in the Coalition are now higher and all those renewing were asked to submit these post op photos to be considered for renewal. I'm also concerned by the post op photos I saw posted on our forum by the contest winner you did. In my opinion the incisions are too large and far apart and invasive on the scalp and do not meet our current standards for membership. I have attached this photo for your reference and also a photo showing the type of immediate post op results we expect of Coalition members. You will note the small minimally invasive incisions that are closely placed to allow for good cosmetic density after one session. I hope that you take this feed back in a constructive light. The bar for excellent hair restoration has moved considerably higher in the past two years and our editorial content and recommendations need to reflect these new realities. For now I will not be able to present you on either the Coalition web sites or the Hair Transplant Network.com. If you feel that your patient's posted photos are not representative of your work, now or in the future, please feel free to send them to me and we will reconsider presenting you again on our sites. Thank you for your past support and best wishes for your practice in the future. Patrick Hennessey Dr. Goertz's reply: I am offended that you would cancel me as a recommended physician with such a paucity of correspondence at the 11th hour! You already knew before this posting your new criteria, why was I not informed? If we are truly a "Coalition of Independent Physicians" should we not be judged by our peers? I am completely comfortable by having my work and results judged by them. Would it not be more appropriate for other members of the coalition to be involved in this all important step? As I discussed with you when you first invited me to join and you requested to observe my surgery, it made me uncomfortable. It still is not appropriate for a lay person. I would invite any of my colleagues to observe me and have trained others as well. Again please review the attached photos. If you would like to see more please let me know the size of files you can accept and I will send them. I truly feel my work is second to none, yet try to improve my techniques daily. I have learned much from my colleagues look forward to continued sharing of ideas with them as we try to improve the field of hair transplantation for our patients. I sincerely hope you find this helpful, PS. I did leave you a voicemail on your cell phone this morning but have not heard from you. Please respond by March 1st. My follow up reply: Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Hennessey Subject: Re: , We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network To: Thank you for taking the time to provide me with more information about your surgical philosophy. I know that it is difficult to have a "lay person" make judgments about your work. You are certainly not the first to voice this concern. However, ultimately it is always the lay person who makes the final determination on their choice of treatment and physician. Ideally their decision will be based upon information gathered during a medical consultation with a qualified physician and from comparing notes and experiences with actual patients, on and offline. Today many potential patients look to the Internet as a resource for gathering and sharing credible information. We strive to serve hair loss sufferers by helping to educate them about procedures and physicians who we think are in their best interest. We are careful to not claim to have definative information. We simply offer those visiting our sites the best information we can in an open environment in which they can share information. I have privately observed dozens of surgical procedures first hand in clinics over the past seven years. I've also attended over a dozen hair restoration conferences and workshops. While this does not qualify me to do surgery, it has given me a solid grounding in what constitutes state of the art surgery. I may be wrong in choosing for now to not present you on our sites. But I would rather error on the conservative side than endorse a physician I need to learn more about to confidently endorse. I have made the mistake of endorsing physicians who later did not meet my expectations or those of the patients that found them on our sites. I have found this scenario to be much more troubling than not promoting a physician I'm not completely confident with. I did take your suggestion to heart to gather a second opinion from a hair restoration physician who I trust. This physician was shown the two post op photos of your work anonymously and asked to evaluate them. Like me, he found the incisions to be more invasive than ideally needed and the grafts to be larger than necessary for a truly refined state of the art hair transplant. Much has changed over the past few years and today surgeons are doing work that they would not have imagined just a couple of years ago. I believe that you are a sincere and ethical physician and that you may well be doing truly outstanding surgeries in the near future. I will remain open to learning more about your ever evolving surgery and results in the hope that one day we will be confident in promoting you on our web communities. I hope you understand my need to error on the safe side at least for now. Thank you for your past support. I look forward to the day when we will be able to collaborate once again. Patrick Hennessey, Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Restoration Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center

Kami, I'm not sure what effect blood preasure may have on a hair transplant. But I do know that smoking can be detrimental because it diminishes the blood supply to the scalp by constricting the tiny blood vessels. Please check with your physician regarding the question of blood preasure. Best wishes, Pat

Tarasilk, Thanks for your thoughtful input. I agree that the active members of this forum community are outstanding and supportive. It's insulting for them to be accused by Perfect Few of being shills when in reality they are generous caring people who recieve no financial compensation. I have no problem with Perfect Few openly critizing me, even when his accusations are false and malicious because I can reply to them if they are in presented in appropriate topics. But he has hijacked numerous unrelated topics and polluted these topics with misinformation that has no relevance to the topic. Like you stated, he is like a small immature child trying to gain attention with his hysterical behavior. Unless he stays on topic I believe his posting privelages will need to be revoked.

I believe that being tolerant and open to all view points no matter how much we may disagree is essential for a discussion forum to maintain credibility and accountability. However, on rare occasions individuals attempt to exploit the openness of our forum to drop poison into the open well. I believe that Perfect Few has shown himself to be such a poster. Fortunately it is far and few between that any poster or posts need to be removed from this forum. I think Perfect Few has made his point that I should not make a good living for publishing this community, which he claims is full of shills. Should we continue to let him make multiple unsubstantiated accusations, many of which are false? Or should his posting privileges now be revoked? Or should we let him continue to create topic after topic in the hopes that he will eventually run his course like any viral infection? Ultimately this forum needs to focus on patient concerns. It becomes hard to do when some one is intent on creating disruption and division. Of course if we ban him, Perfect Few will declare our forum morally bankrupt. He can afford not to ban us on his forum because members of this forum are the only ones visiting it. But does any one at this point really care what he thinks or writes? We are a community and I think this situation should be made as a community. I welcome all view points - yes - even from Mr. Imperfect Few.

I believe that being tolerant and open to all view points no matter how much we may disagree is essential for a discussion forum to maintain credibility and accountability. However, on rare occasions individuals attempt to exploit the openness of our forum to drop poison into the open well. I believe that Perfect Few has shown himself to be such a poster. Fortunately it is far and few between that any poster or posts need to be removed from this forum. I think Perfect Few has made his point that I should not make a good living for publishing this community, which he claims is full of shills. Should we continue to let him make multiple unsubstantiated accusations, many of which are false? Or should his posting privileges now be revoked? Or should we let him continue to create topic after topic in the hopes that he will eventually run his course like any viral infection? Ultimately this forum needs to focus on patient concerns. It becomes hard to do when some one is intent on creating disruption and division. Of course if we ban him, Perfect Few will declare our forum morally bankrupt. He can afford not to ban us on his forum because members of this forum are the only ones visiting it. But does any one at this point really care what he thinks or writes? We are a community and I think this situation should be made as a community. I welcome all view points - yes - even from Mr. Imperfect Few.

Imperfect Few, You stated above that - Yet anyone who looks at your profile can see that you first registed on this site on February 6th of 2006 to share your experience with Dr. Goetz. You really need to get your info straight. I also don't hide the fact that physicians contribute to this community as it is clearly spelled on all our sites. On the Hair Transplant Network on the "How We Select the Physicians Recommended on this Site" page it reads: P.S. Bill was correct in his statement that some of the doctors on your site could not meet the standards for recommendation here - most notably Dr. Goertz who was removed for doing work as shown in this photo. I also met with Drs. Weinstein and Rousso. While I found them to be gentleman I did not have the confidence to recommend them.

Who was it that said that if you repeat a lie long enough people will believe it? Apparently Imperfect Few thinks this will work for him. All the best, Pat

Mrjb, It's members like you that make the headaches worth while. Have a great Mothers Day. Pat

Could some one help me find the definition of an angry fool? (see how I "attract customers with tricks and jokes" :-) By the way, the purpose of this forum is actually to help hair loss sufferers find solutions not to provide you with a forum to vent your anger. I know things are dead over on your grudge forum, but can you try to limit the number of new angry forum topics to under ten per day? They are amusing but unlike you we do have work to do around here. P.S. I did find a good anger management forum that you might find more appropriate at SelfGrowth.com at www.selfgrowth.com/anger.html Enjoy the rest of your Sunday and try to calm down and perhaps call your mother on Mother's Day.

Youngsuccess, I do understand how some patients may feel reluctant to post on our forum if their physician is not known or recommended on our community. But I believe that the members of this forum are very receptive to learning about new physicians and clinics who may also prove worthy of recommendation. We encourage all patients from all physicians to share both the good and bad on this forum. I've been helping patients identify and learn about the best surgical techniques and the physicians who perform them with great results for over ten years now. I have attented over a dozen hair transplant conferences/meetings and visited dozens of clinic worldwide. I've turned over one Hell of alot of rocks looking for gems and in my opinion there just aren't that many physicians who merit recommendation. And virtually all of them who are both ethical and provide outstanding work are already recommended on this community. As you might imagine my rejection of the vast majority of physicians has made me unpopular and the object of scorn with many hair transplant physicians. For example, I know every single one of the physicians on the new Hair Loss Doctor's list site in addition to those who are recommended on this site. I have met personally with Dr. Weinstein when I was in Maryland and Dr. Rousso during the ISHRS meeting in San Diego. They both seemed like real gentleman. But I did not gain the level of confidence needed to recommend them. Perhaps I was overly conservative? Perhaps, but I prefer to error on the side of caution. Youngsuccess, please feel free to share your experience and photos no matter what my opinion or other members opinions may or may not be. P.S. Once again your assumptions and calculations are wrong. But go ahead and scream how horrible it is that after ten years of work and helping thousands of patients find great results that I can make a good living.

Imperfect Few, Why did these physicians let themselves get talked into Dr. Goertz's grudge site? That's a very good question considering that every one of them has benefited from the good will of this community for years. I will certainly be asking each of them this question on Monday. My hope is that they were not aware of how bitter and antagonistic this grudge site would be. Judging from the spin and deceptive nature of your posts I'd imagine these physicians were sold on your site under false pretenses. If any of these physicians continue to support Dr. Goertz's grudge site and its antagonism toward patient based community then they will no longer have any business deriving benefits from this community. Frankly, your site has been a God send to this community. Normally the physicians have worked behind the scenes in private emails and conversations to undermine this community. Now they are out in the open for all to see. For this I thank you and Dr. Goertz (assuming you aren't Dr. Goertz himself). P.S. Bill was correct in stating that some of the physicians behind your grudge site did not meet the standards for recommendation on this site - most notably Dr. Goertz himself/yourself who was removed from this site for performing poor work as shown in this photo.

Imperfect Few - Who is buddy buddy with Dr. B.L. Limmer does not matter on this community. This is the Hair Transplant Network not the old boys network. Despite your unsubstantiated claim, I have never bad mouthed a physician based on them not participating in our community. Doing so would be unfair, malicious and unethical. Frankly, this community and its reputation are so well known amongst physicians that virtually every physician who has been invited to participate during the past eight years has gladly done so and benefited greatly. The only physicians who have left this community during the past couple of years have been removed by me. Any physician who does not feel this community is of value to them or their patients is free to leave at any time. However, since this community has both high visibility and credibity those few who have been chosen have had the good sense to participate and sponsor this site. Do I get paid? Yes, I do and I don't recall pretending to be the Mother Theresa of Hair (But I'll bet she took contributions in any case). Me and this community are not for sale. Physicians are presented here strictly based on their merit. They then pay a monthly sponsorship fee that over a full year amounts to the price of about one surgery (not the misrepresented and incorrect fees that you presented on your forum). This information is disclosed on our sites. Given the dozens of patients that most physicians garner from participating in this community their sponsorship fee is a tremendous value that has enabled them to cut their advertising expenses to the bone and even lower their prices. Frankly, the Internet and this community have been a tremendous windfall for the top clinics because they thrive in an enviroment where patients can measure the talk by the actual walk. The Internet has enabled many leading independent clinics to compete successfully with the national chain clinics. As for the removal of surgeons like Dr. Goertz, in the past when I removed a physician I typically did it discreetly. Only when the issue of the quality of a physician's work arose on the forum did their removal become public knowledge. I removed Dr. Goertz from the Hair Transplant Network due to concerns I had about his technique. His removal had absolutely nothing to do with fees. Only after he was removed did Dr. Goertz claim to his colleauges that he quit over fees (yes, much like being fired and then claiming you quit). Dr. Goertz was very bitter about his removal, which he felt was unfair. In the interest of fairness I offered to visit his clinic and see his actual procedure and some of his patients. Dr. Goertz refused my offer and was unwilling to allow me to visit his clinic when I was in the Seattle area last year. Since that time he has continued to be so bitter that he was motivated to create the anti Hair Transplant Network for which you are a vocal advocate. Apparently he has convinced a few of his colleagues to join him in this folly. I know you are patient of Dr. Goertz. But given the your pattern of venomous posting I would like you to divulge what compensation you are deriving from Dr. Goertz for doing his dirty work online? This community and myself can handle an open discussion about our behavior and motivations. Can you? Pat

Attention all covert members of the patient conspiracy Network, our elaborate ruse has been uncovered by Imperfect Few. I have evacuated my underground lair and I'm hovering in Hair Force One. Please begin evacuation sequence XKRK19 and erase all Photoshop simulations of impressive results and prepare to board Hair Force One for evacuation . . . Imperfect Few, yes I have an active imagination too. But I don't make a habit of presenting my fantasies for reality online. Since you apparently are the new moderator/spin doctor over at Dr. Goertz's Hair Club for Doctors site, you should learn to get your facts straight before you litter our forum and yours with incorrect and venomous information. Here are some actual facts: The only physicians who have left this community during the past couple of years have been removed by me. Any physician who does not feel this community is of value to them or their patients is free to leave at any time. However, since this community has both high visibility and credibility those few who have been chosen have had the good sense to participate and sponsor this site. Do I get paid? Yes, I do and I don't recall pretending to be the Mother Theresa of Hair (But I'll bet she took contributions in any case). Me and this community are not for sale. Physicians are presented here strictly based on their merit. They then pay a monthly sponsorship fee that over a full year amounts to the price of about one surgery (not the misrepresented and incorrect fees that you presented on your forum). This information is disclosed on our sites. These fees cover every thing from hosting, video production, graphics, ASP programming, online advertising and promotion, travel - to attorney bills for fighting frivolous law suits etc etc. During some years these expenses have exceeded revenue and I've actually lost money publishing this community. Given the dozens of patients that most physicians garner from participating in this community their sponsorship fee is a tremendous value that has enabled them to cut their advertising expenses to the bone and even lower their prices. Frankly, the Internet and this community have been a tremendous windfall for the top clinics because they thrive in an environment where patients can measure the talk by the actual walk. The Internet has enabled many leading independent clinics to compete successfully with the national chain clinics. The community is very tolerant of virtually all view points and I'm proud that it is extremely rare that we ever remove a member's posting privileges or posts. We believe that the best antidote to misinformation is a factual reply. But clearly your motivation for being on this forum is to drop poison in the well. We can handle criticism. But should this community tolerate and host your malicious lies? Some times free speech has to be protected from online terrorists like you who would exploit the openness of this forum to poison it (yes, a little like terrorists using our own planes to fly through the open skies and into our buildings). That you are apparently going to be the moderator of Dr. Goertz's forum indicates to me that your site is going to be an even bigger farce than I expected. I expect your community will burn up in the heat generated from all your resentment, anger and dishonesty. I want to thank the many members of this community for their support. They know the score about this community and yours. Welcome to the transparent world of the Web. Pat

As the previous posts make clear, the members of this forum know the score and easily see this Hair Club for Doctors for what it is - a desperate attempt to mimic this community minus any real standards or accountability. It was not created to serve patients but rather to disempower them. Many doctors fear the control that this community has over livelihoods. Many leading physicians get between 1/3 to 1/2 of all their new patients from this community. I can understand their fear of being removed. Perhaps they feel they will be able to huddle together in a group that has no standards or accountability. So in addition to having no visibility the Hair Loss Doctor List of good old boys has no credibility. Did these physicians really think this site would fly in the age of informed patients who have gotten used to thinking for themselves and expressing themselves online? I encourage members of this community to visit the Hair Loss Doctor's Forum and to give this forum a dose of reality. Let's see how this self serving club can deal with real patients who can think independently and know what a grade A hair transplant looks like rather than ground up hamburger. Posting photos of true world class results for physicians who aren't in their club would make this point. Then just in case this Hair Club for Doctors buys enough click through ads to attract visitors they'll know what real results look like. I don't see such posts as support for this site or its forum. Rather such posts will give this forum a dose of reality that it will ultimately not be able to handle. After all could the doctors on this site who could not meet the standards for inclusion on the Hair Transplant Network stand for having their patient results compared side by side with Drs. Hasson, Wong, Feller, Shapiro, Rahal, Epstien etc? I'm betting they will choke within two weeks and start hitting the delete button like a desperate gambler at a slot machine. Yes this site will fail for many reasons. But it will fail mainly because it was conceived not to help but rather to destroy. But before it flounders it will tarnish and possibly ruin the reputations of those physicians who have supported it and its hostile intentions. Onwards and upwards, Pat P.S. When I get time I'll share with this community how Dr. Dow Stough and Dr. Tony Mangubaut (former President of the ISHRS and creator of a device that cuts all grafts with one hammer blow by driving dozens of razor blades into a strip of donor tissue) attempted to ambush me and Farrell Manne (publisher of Hair Loss Help) during a physicians meeting about the Internet and its dangers. This new site is only a chapter in a long sad saga of doctors fighting the inevitable process of patient's critiquing them.

Thanks for everyone's input regarding these two physicians. Dr. Mohmand and Dr. Pathomvanich were both invited by me to apply for recommendation on this community by presenting their results in photo albums on this forum. Dr. Mohmand chose to do so and his impressive results and credentials were presented on the topic entitled Recommendation of Mohammad H. Mohmand, MD of Islamabad, Pakistan. Based on his work and on input from this community I decided to recommend him. At this time, Dr. Pathomvanich chose not to submit his information and patient photos on this forum in order to become a recommended physician. I did speak with him lately on the phone to encourage him to do so. He told me that he wanted to improve his website before being presented on our community. Like so many top notch physicians he is a perfectionist and doesn't want to attract attention to his website until he has overhauled it. Hopefully he and his website will soon be ready to for many visits from the members of this community. All the best. Pat

Folica, I do agree that physicians have every right to promote themselves as individuals or as collective groups outside of this community. However, the ISHRS (International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery), which is open to all physicians regardless of the quality of their work, already has a useful website at www.ishrs.org with all of its 500 plus physician members presented. However, unlike Dr. Goertz's online hair club for doctors, the ISHRS web site was not created to denegrate this and other patient based forums and sites. I would expect this kind of self promotion from the many physicians who can't pass muster on real patient based forums. But from Coalition members? I will be asking these members some very hard questions in the near future.

Since Dr. Goertz intends to run a forum that is free from the terrible abuses that plague this forum I paid his forum a visit. The forum looked very lonely so I decided to post the following: Subject - Photo of a Dr. Goertz patient Welcome to the world of hosting a discussion forum. As a forum moderator you will soon have to decide whether you are going to run a truly open forum or a censored forum that deletes posts or posters who present information that you are not comfortable with. For example, the photo in the below link is of a patient of Dr. Goertz's. It was posted by one of his patients on a respected hair transplant discussion forum. Will you delete it and this post because it demonstrates a very invasive surgery that resulted in coblestoning and sparse growth? Or can you deal in reality and reply to it? I expect you will soon be pressing the delete button. But please, prove me wrong. Link to patient's immediate post op photo http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums?a=displayal...eshow&x_startwith=19 Best wishes to you in running a forum that is free from the inconvenient truths that visit all forums. Pat Hennessey, Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network.com If you'd like to visit this topic visit http://www.hairlossdoctorlist.com/Forums/tabid/53/forum...w/topic/Default.aspx P.S. If you hurry you may be able to reply before they delete the post and my posting account.

Joe and Bill - Right on! The hypocrisy of physicians garnering patients from this online community while supporting a physician based website that denounces the right of patients to hold them accountable is deplorable in my opinion. Before communities like this existed patients had no recourse, legal or otherwise, if and when they got poor results. But today patients have the resources available to be empowered. Today the educated patient is in the driver's seat and demanding and getting the very best work possible. On this community physicians need to walk the talk to earn the respect and business of patients. This new "old boys club" website is yet another reactionary attempt by certain physicians to take patients out of the drivers seat and put them back in the back seat for the ride. They'd prefer the good old days when patients could not hold them accountable and where the information flowed from the "expert" M.D. down to the lay patient. I have been attacked and sued many times over the years by hair transplant physicians who hate the existence of this community and what it stands for. Yet this community has not only survived these attacks but thrived. Why? Because it empowers the person who really matters most - the patient. Many of the best physicians and clinics have had the wisdom to understand that they do not need to fear open and free discussions by patients and potential patients. In fact, those whose end results do hold up under close examination earn a steady stream of educated patients and one Hell of a lot of money. Other physicians continue to see patient forums as a threat to their industry/profession. So I ask the members of this community - should we continue recommending physicians on this community who support a website that has contempt for this forum and the right of patients to freely share their experiences and opinions? In my opinion, such hypocrisy is unacceptable and must not be allowed to stand. I think it's time to find out where physicians really stand. The membership standards for the Coalition make it clear that physicians are expected to operate in a transparent and accountable manner (see below excerpt from the Coalition "Membership Standards" page). Coalition Standards - Section - Physician Accountability "Membership in the Coalition requires members to maintain a high degree of patient satisfaction. Members care for their patients knowing that their patients are free to post their experiences on the popular Hair Restoration Discussion Forum. On this open forum patients are free to critique physicians and to hold them accountable for their actions. This forum is run and moderated by hair restoration patients. In such a transparent environment our members are held publicly accountable for their actions and results. Members who fail to meet the high technical and ethical membership standards set by the Coalition are removed from the group. However, we ask that patients first give their physician the opportunity to satisfy their concerns privately before posting any public criticisms on the discussion forum. If the issue is not resolved to the patient's satisfaction they are encouraged to contact the Coalition by email at service@HairLossLearningCenter.org Member clinics also agree to open their clinics up to inspection. Many of these inspections have been reported on the Hair Restoration Discussion Forum. View some of these clinic visits." This is our contract with the doctors we promote on this community. In return for our business we require excellent results and accountability. Shouldn't we all expect them to honor it? P.S. If you'd like to see an example of one of Dr. Goertz's patients who posted his immediate post ops on this forum, click here. After viewing this photo I expect you will understand why Dr. Goertz is not recommended on this community. You may also gain an understanding as to why Dr. Goertz deplores this forum and has undertaken publishing a site that is openly contemptuous of this forum and others (i.e. If you can't join them beat them.)