Heisenberg
-
Posts
174 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Store
Gallery
Articles
Blogs
Events
Downloads
Posts posted by Heisenberg
-
-
I also knew of the possible side effects of taking finasteride (there has been a lot of drama concerning all that), but I have taken the drug for many months, and appear to be okay.
-
15 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
I think he was replying to jfally's comment not yours.
I am a big believer in the nocebo effect. Hell, I'm such a hippy that I even believe in the power on manifesting outcomes via your own thoughts in terms of say your career or your relationships.
On the other hand, I also believe that it's quite possible that it's not a great idea to be taking a medication for baldness that was originally designed for hypertension, only for it to be basically discontinued for that purpose due to side effects (Albeit at higher doses).
We walk a fine line here, chumes!
I agree that the nocebo effect may apply in some cases but not all. I don't think the poor people that were subject to studies and who experienced pericardial effusion and edema etc. were all experiencing a nocebo effect. I suspect some of them weren't even properly informed of the side effects.
I also need more convincing that the nocebo effect could induce stabbing chest pain. I know the mind can be powerful, but surely not that powerful.
-
59 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:
If you have pre-conceived notions of a drug, and you truly believe it’s dangerous, why on earth would you take it? The mind is a powerful thing. I’ve had friends read horror stories about fin, then take it and claim they got side effects within the first 5 minutes.
You're essentially arguing that the risks of taking the drug are merely my subjective opinion, when you have previously agreed that all pharmaceuticals carry a risk of side effects.
I have only repeated what has been overtly declared by Pfizer themselves. I've not stated anything that Pfizer has not. To that end, I have not blown things out of proportion, and only a fool would not be mindful of the possible side effects before taking a drug.
-
On 7/6/2023 at 4:54 PM, Heisenberg said:
So, I decided to bite the bullet, and start by taking one tablet. I will probably wait a few days, then will start alternating between days etc. I'll report back if I experience any issues, assuming I am able to, of course. 🤞
Started getting subtle pain in my heart area, and tonight I'm getting a bit of a stabbing pain on the other side, so may need to stop taking the drug. What a bloody nightmare...
-
Some serious side effects noted from topical minoxidil:
-
3 hours ago, webathon said:
Now YOU'RE the one who is trolling 🤣
Get a life.
-
11 hours ago, Big Rome said:
yeah, weird that. I’ve been fine using it, a lot of the comments on the video say the same thing luckily lol… was about to consider removing the baby shampoo 🤣
I may give it a go then. 🙂
-
On 7/2/2023 at 10:03 AM, Big Rome said:
I use baby shampoo 5 x a week & Nizoral x 2
Interesting. I was thinking of giving baby shampoo a go too. This guy isn't a fan though:
-
So, I decided to bite the bullet, and start by taking one tablet. I will probably wait a few days, then will start alternating between days etc. I'll report back if I experience any issues, assuming I am able to, of course. 🤞
-
It seems the risk of pericardial effusion is around 3% if you are not on dialysis (most people aren't):
"There have been reports of pericarditis occurring in association with the use of LONITEN. The relationship of this association to renal status is uncertain. Pericardial effusion, occasionally with tamponade, has been observed in about 3% of treated patients not on dialysis, especially those with inadequate or compromised renal function. Although in many cases, the pericardial effusion was associated with a connective tissue disease, the uremic syndrome, congestive heart failure, or marked fluid retention, there have been instances in which these potential causes of effusion were not present. Patients should be observed closely for any suggestion of a pericardial disorder, and echocardiographic studies should be carried out if suspicion arises. More vigorous diuretic therapy, dialysis, pericardiocentesis, or surgery may be required."
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2015/018154s026lbl.pdf
Still, the bit right on top on the first page worries me:
"WARNINGS
LONITEN Tablets contain the powerful antihypertensive agent, minoxidil, which may produce serious adverse effects. It can cause pericardial effusion, occasionally progressing to tamponade, and angina pectoris may be exacerbated. "
-
4 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
Ya a lot of synthetic fragrances are endocrine disrupting too. I never like being in a car with heavy air fresheners and such.
Would you say you have sensitive skin in general? I had a freind in HS who was very blonde and light skinned and even someone drawing on her skin with a pen or marker would cause weird issues for her.
Yeah, bad news.
Not sure how sensitive my skin is. I wouldn't say that it is that is very sensitive, though, as never had any issues of the kind you mention.
-
Incidentally, in my honest opinion, products like L’Oréal Professionnel Serioxyl are just as bad, if not worse, as they throw in perfume too.
-
5 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
You may have said already, but what mechanism and ingredients do you think are causing hyperkeratosis or inflammation?
I think it was the alcohol, as that was the first thing that both Dr Bisanga and his clinical colleague suggested.
"Regaine for Men Extra Strength Scalp Foam 5% w/w Cutaneous Foam also contains butylated hydroxytoluene, which may cause local skin reactions (e.g. contact dermatitis), or irritation to the eyes or mucous membranes, and cetyl and stearyl alcohol, which may cause local skin reactions (e.g. contact dermatitis).":
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/5781/smpc
I've used the liquid version too, and I think there are some harsh chemicals in there too.
-
3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
Clinical studies would be useful, but I think it would have been observed fairly easily by HT surgeons if their patients who used topical min ended up with lackluster results. Often clinical studies on this type of thing come after an observed anecdotal pattern is noticed by medical professio
Yeah, could well be some truth in that. I suspect the average person who has subjected themselves to a HT has attempted topical minoxidil at some point, but I may be wrong.
-
"In some cases, hair loss is gradual, without symptoms, and is unnoticed for long periods. In other cases, hair loss is associated with severe itching, burning and pain and is rapidly progressive. The inflammation that destroys the follicle is below the skin surface and there is usually no "scar" seen on the scalp. Affected areas of the scalp may show little signs of inflammation, or have redness, scaling, increased or decreased pigmentation, pustules, or draining sinuses.":
-
6 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
How long did you use for btw?
Around 5 years or so I think.
-
1 minute ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
I think if topical min had the potential to cause issues with getting HT's for anything more than a very small % of men, it would be pretty well known by now. But I could be wrong! I know Hasson and Wong resisted for a long time, but I heard recently they recommended it to a patient so maybe they've stopped being anti topical min.
Not sure. I wonder how many clinical studies have been done, and, if so, what the quality of those studies were. I suspect none have been done.
Also, just because a HT surgeon can't see obvious signs of inflammation etc. on a patient's scalp with a dermotoscope, it doesn't automatically follow that it's not there. In fact, I wonder how many HT surgeons even examine a patient with a dermotoscope prior to surgery.
-
56 minutes ago, ilag said:
is oral or topical better?
That's a tricky one.
Personally speaking, and in my humble opinion, I think you are more likely going to have cardiac/heart symptoms or side effects with oral, but the potential adverse effects of topical on the scalp, and subsequently the follicles, means that oral is far safer for the health of your scalp and follicles. In hindsight, I wish I had never used topical.
-
This is the advice that I read:
"We have since advised patients to start with alternate days of LDOM for 1 month and then increase it to daily dosages thereafter. "
-
33 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
You're asking the right questions. People often get offended when you start asking questions like this (As you've seen in this thread already) because it calls into question their own personal decision to use these medications. But for people like us who are asking these questions, we are just genuinely curious and want to know whether the potential for saving your hair is worth the potential long term risks.
The above question is particularly relevant to me because I use far more than the recommended dose of topical min. I think the instructions call for using 1 cap full, but typically I use more like 2.5-3 caps full in order to cover the entire area that I want to cover. Granted I only use once per day and not twice, and usually only use 5 or 6 days out of the week. But still it's very possible that there is a cardiac risk from using topical min. Sorry chumes (Goli included).
Yes, I completely agree. To quote Dr Phil:
"Better to be awakened by a painful truth than lulled to sleep by a seductive lie."
I may have found a flaw, albeit a minor one, in Kev's argument when he argues that topical is better than oral.
I would be careful when using that much, as I didn't use nearly that much, and I seemed to have developed hyperkeratosis along the way, which is now preventing me from getting a HT, and may have resulted in the avoidable destruction of my hair follicles.
Contact dermatitis/eczema is also listed as a possible side effect, and we know that inflammation in the scalp can increase DHT. Failing obvious signs, I think the only way to truly know if your scalp is inflamed is to get a scalp biopsy, and even that is probably not completely conclusive, not least because it only examines a tiny area of the scalp.
Having used topical minoxidil for years, I may try oral every other day to start with (I read that is recommended in one study), as presumably if there were any heart issues, they would have showed up by now, though who knows. I'm still a bit on the fence though.
-
About 1h45m into this video, Dr Bhoyrul opines that topical is equivalent to using around 0.5mg of oral.
-
1
-
-
This woman was on 0.25 mg of oral minoxidil (OM) daily:
-
24 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:
Why not just use topical? The amount that goes systemic is far smaller than even a very low dose of oral min.
That raises an interesting point. If topical minoxidil gets into the bloodstream, and, as Kevin Mann argues, the side effects are not dose-dependent (idiosyncratic), you could end up getting heart issues from topical minoxidil. I understand using topical is equivalent to using around 0.5mg of oral.
-
1
-
-
3 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:
No one is saying that side effects don’t exist, of course they do, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. PFS is listed on finasteride as a warning. But that doesn’t mean that majority of people shouldn’t try it. Every medication has a risk. If you want zero risk, shave your head and forget about hair loss, that’s the only thing risk-free. Surgery is risky, medication is risky, shaving has no risk.
Well, I've been accused of fearmongering for simply stating the risks, which are overtly declared by Pfizer themselves. Medicine is always about balancing risk versus reward.
I agree, there is not much in life that doesn't carry a risk sadly. I assumed using Regaine was risk-free, and I was badly wrong.
I have tried shaving my head very short, and it doesn't suit me at all. Losing one's hair really clubs a man like a bastard...
Kevin does not like oral minoxidil
in Hair Loss Drugs
Posted
True that, but that would be a remarkable coincidence in my case, as this is the first time that I have experienced this, and it happened around a week after starting oral minoxidil, which happens to mess with your heart (that's what it was intended to do).