NegativeNorwood

4 minutes ago, DrMunibAhmad said:

Thanks for the kind words. 
 

Temple work is very delicate. In most cases it’s only natural with long to middle long hair. But if you buzz cut it the transplanted hairs wil stand out imo. Unless the patient has thin hairs from himself. So i only do temples when i know it will look 100% natural is short and long haircut. 

Thanks for replying!

Couldn't understand well what you want to say with "unless the patient has thin hairs from himself". Does it mean that the patient has to have donor hairs 100% suitable for the temple transplant? Sorry for the dumb question btw.

That's why I chose my username, it's even funny how low that hairline is. I imagine every hair mill "doctor" has a poster of that guy in his room lmao

Something like this IMO is a perfect hairline:

He still has the same hairline at 35 yo, good genes come in packages I guess, lucky bastard.

Love the honest, high quality pictures. I wish more doctors presented their work in the same way but I understand why they don't do it haha.

His hairline looks extremely natural, even in the zoomed pics no one would be able to tell he got a transplant.

I'm very impressed by your work and the way you present it. Wish you posted more results that focused mostly on temples, that would be awesome tbh.

52 minutes ago, iKelia said:

I know that fin + minox is necessary to avoid further hair loss
But does their usage still make sense if you have no history of hairloss in you family past the state you're in right now? 

-I'm very curious about what one of the clinics told you with regards to fin + minox and the possibility of experiencing hair "regrowth"
They didn't say it can regrow, only improve my condition(aka improve hair quality😞
-"Another one said that my hairline is only slightly accentuated, it might not even be operated on. And claimed I can possibly improve my condition by taking oral minoxidil 5mg along with finasteride 1mg. " 

I wish it could fully regrow.
I have a friend with Norwood 6, he's got good results after using mesotherapy. However, no full recover happened for him. On the other hand he never used minoxidil or finsteride. His current state after the course:   

 
(not me, don't confuse)

Maybe, I'll put a HT on hold and go for medications + PRP, PRL or whatever mesotherapy treatment. 
Frankly, the whole idea of becoming dependent on medications which have side effects just for aestetics is kinda repellent. 
I have put too much faith into HT because I thought it can do it once and forget. Subjectively my reasoning seemed solid to me, 
- I get transplanted a highly resilient to DHT hair follicles, hence I shouldn't worry about them post surjery; 
- I have no history of hairloss in you family past the state you're in right now; 

 

 

It doesn't happen to everyone, but there's lots of people who experienced hair "regrowth" with minoxidil, finasteride and microneedling. This is one of many, reposted by William Rassman:

https://baldingblog.com/5-months-on-minoxidil-and-finasteride-photo/

I'm writing regrowth in between commas because I don't know the exact term, like ie: they may still have miniaturized hair that the meds helped growing out and making visible. I'm not knowledgeable enough tbh.

I think trying for a few months and see what happens wouldn't hurt, the side effects are rare (reportedly less than 2% of people get them) and they even stopped in people who continued the treatment according to studies.

If I were to got a HT, I would definitely hop on fin and minox just as a cautionary measure. I wouldn't like to suffer more hair loss and need a second (or third or fourth) transplant, and if I needed it I would like it to be a small one, of course.

10 minutes ago, iKelia said:

Yeah, I'm certain I had it when i was 17 years old. I just want to restore it. I have learned some people called juvenile hairline and it's natural to lose it when you become an adult. However, I don't like the appearance it gives me now.  Few people commented i have a way to big forehead because of it.  



If restoring straight hairline aka. juvenile hairline with HT can't be permanent I wish to learn this beforehand from this forum.
I still don't understand why one clinic said it will last at least 15-20 years. 
Other in unison say minoxidil + finasteride is must have regimen post surgery till the end of life.   
Aren't they transplant highly resilient to DHT hair follicles which would make using finasteride irrelevant?  



 

I know that fin + minox is necessary to avoid further hair loss (ie: different zones than the transplanted ones).

But I'm on the same boat, I think "juvenile" hairlines look better overall (number of grafts available for the future aside).

I'm very curious about what one of the clinics told you with regards to fin + minox and the possibility of experiencing hair "regrowth" (which I've seen many cases lately, some of them posted by professionals). Like, imagine being on meds for a year and recovering most of the juvenile hairline, only needing something like 300 grafts for refinement...wouldn't that be amazing? 0_0

Amazing hairline. Love how you adressed the temples to make them less peaky and more straight shaped, it really frames his forehead in the best possible way IMO.

Both are great docs. I really like Dr. Munib's approach, he presents his cases with the highest quality, true to real life pictures possible, which inspires a lot of confidence to me.

It's hard to judge hairline height without seeing the rest of your face in a non lens distorted picture.

All the face must be taken into account to establish hairline height. Ideally, it should be the same as the midface lenght. The best way to measure is with a tape or digital caliper, from the lowest part of your hairline to the glabella (middle of the inner eyebrows), and compare it to the lenght from the middle of your eyebrows to the end of your nose. This pic provides a good illustration:

To me the hairline also looks a bit aggresive at first sight. You have amazing temples, which help a lot in giving the illusion of a lower set hairline. Maybe you can achieve the effect you want with a less aggressive hairline...I don't know, to be honest.

Very good thread, hope to also read more responses. I also have this exact same doubt:

"Another one said that my hairline is only slightly accentuated, it might not even be operated on. And claimed I can possibly improve my condition by taking oral minoxidil 5mg along with finasteride 1mg. 
What can I expect by following this regimen? Does it promise 80, 90% restoration? Or will it thicken miniaturised hairs to the level of fully grown adult hair? "

18 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

The skull curvature along with fine babyhairs and angles can make it look different in different photos. I tried outlining your young hairline and then recreating it on your newer photo. 

 

Your forehead already looks small, by the way. The hairline is low. Perhaps it looks wide from the front due to temporal recession? Anyway, I would say the entire temples themselves are quite aggressive for you naturally, not just the "points" or "peaks"

If you wanted to recreate this surgically it would only take a few hundred grafts. Temple points are the biggest bang for your buck graft wise. Because they lie so flat and parallel with the skin, overlapping each other neatly, they create a great coverage, and can look dense with only a small number of grafts. As opposed to the crown, or the very front, which require tons of grafts to look thick due to angles. 

Wow thank you much for taking your time and drawing the hairline! Also great explanation about the number of grafts needed, very informative.

I personally would like something slightly more aggresive than the original, like this:

16 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Just out of interest I thought I'd post this guy (pietro boselli) as an example. His hairline is fairly high, but his temple points are super aggressive and spiky looking. This is maybe the opposite of what you're talking about, so a good contrast. 

His temple points are practically anterior to the tail of his eyebrows! 

Yes, exactly the opposite case as me. He has a extremely prominent temples and a fairly high hairline, and I have a fairly low hairline without temples.

8 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Thank you so much, very enlightening comment. That's the highest quality pic I could find of my hairline before my 20s, I have this other one in side profile but the quality is quite poor:

But yes I never had good temples to being with and noticed it is rare, because most caucasian people I've seen usually have prominent temples when young. High quality side profile pic from last year for comparison:

Since I discovered about this I have a kpop style curtains hairstyle that works nicely covering the lack of temples and giving the illusion of a lower set hairline.

@Rafael Manelli

Current hairstyle that hides temples and hairline. Koreans certainly know a thing or two about this lmao

3 minutes ago, Phillyman1996 said:

I'm receding a bit but luckily my temple points always been good hope it stays that way lol

Yeah good temples are definitely a blessing, I hope you keep them forever man

7 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Your hairline shape is very interesting here. How I'd describe it is the frontotemporal junction is the most anterior part of the temporal hairline. In other words, the top corner is actually in front of the temple point itself. It is rare, some would say juvenile. Maybe an ethnic variant. But I think this may be what you're getting at 

Thank you so much, very enlightening comment. That's the highest quality pic I could find of my hairline before my 20s, I have this other one in side profile but the quality is quite poor:

But yes I never had good temples to being with and noticed it is rare, because most caucasian people I've seen usually have prominent temples when young. High quality side profile pic from last year for comparison:

Since I discovered about this I have a kpop style curtains hairstyle that works nicely covering the lack of temples and giving the illusion of a lower set hairline.

1 minute ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Then you have guys like this whose temple points I can't quite figure out... 

This. I was born with a hairline like that. I've posted it above. A far cry from something like this:

Temples are so important, they give the impression of a framed, low set hairline. I technically have low set hairline (took the time to measure it and it is around 95% of the midface lenght, technically shorter than ideal), yet it "looks" like I have a high hairline due to the lack of temple points. Most people that want a lower hairline actually want more prominent temples.

3 minutes ago, L0ke said:

An interesting topic, and good to read more on the importance of temporal peaks here 👏
Even though your donor capacity is key, a good hair surgeon will not ignore the temple area because it is an important part in recreating the hairline. 
When it comes to the shape, there is no option A, B or C... recreating the temple points takes so much more than that.
Your personal preference needs to be discussed during a personal consultation with the doctor.
Dr. Feriduni will meticulously measure the dimensions of the patient's face and redesign the whole. 
It is not about density when it comes to this area; the hairs are very fine (mostly single FU). 
To achieve a natural result, Dr. Feriduni respects the natural blending when going deeper in the temple area.
Whether you prefer hard-shaped or more subtle, it is strongly advised to focus on the final appearance of your face.
Keep this in mind and how this naturally should keep matching with your face, also in the future.

Thank you so much for answering!

Dr Feriduni's work is amazing, very natural and has a great eye for aesthetics. I've first read about temporal peaks a few months ago visiting his website and seeing the edits of celebrities with and without temporal peaks there.

It's a fascinating topic to me, because I never had prominent temporal peaks to being with, and most hair transplants results I've seen end up with a hairline like mine (barely no temples). As a reference, this is my hair at 19 yo and at 30 for comparison. It receeded and became more V shaped at 24-25 yo (lots of stress) but has stayed the same ever since. Hairline height seems the same to me other than less density at widow's peak.

Currently I'm 31 and will probably try minoxidil + finasteride + microneedling first (and hope to get some hair regrowth from it), but my intention is to have better temples than I ever had in the future. I would love to achieve something like the examples posted in the OP or even like this if temples that big don't suit me:

So yeah it was quite surprising to me that is such a neglected topic tbh

Extremely informative video.

I've seen many cases online of people regrowing most of their hair with minoxidil + finasteride + microneedling.

What are the chances for that to happen? For someone who is 31 yo, never has been on hair loss medications and presents minimal hairloss, how likely is for that person to get his original hairline back? I'm strongly considering getting on oral minox, oral fin and buying a dermapen.

This was my hairline at 19 yo in the left and at 30 in the right btw, never had prominent temples and always had sparse eyebrows:

It receeded at 24-25 yo (very stressful time in my life) and a couple of cm at the corner at most, now it is a bit more V shaped in comparison. Hairline height seems to be the same, just a bit less dense at the widow's peak. Pic is angled a bit different so it may give the impression of less hair loss, but is the most similar and highest quality I found to compare with. Do you think I have high chances of getting the hairs I lost back with the big three? Or is most likely they will be "just" a nice hair loss prevention protocol?

11 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

Far too many factors in the shopped photo to draw conclusions.

• Compressing the forehead while leaving the TP's unchanged just changes the ratio of forehead to TP. Making the TP look bigger/more prominent, in comparison.
• The volume of hair has been reduced while the TP remain the same. Again, changing the proportions.

Now that you point it and I look closer, that's true. The images has too many things going on to draw a conclusion based on it.

Still, I think the forehead slope helps giving the illusion of temple prominence.

10 hours ago, NARMAK said:

No rambling at all, loved how you infused a more scientific and maths based approach to the design discussion just there and thanks for reading my journey. 

In the first picture of David Gandy, you have his original face and aesthetically the hairline fits that face really well, but the 2nd photo morphs his facial features significantly so its not a completely 1:1 comparison which is why it looks almost like a completely different person. The forehead, nose and chin all change making it seem like a different person that's dressed in the same clothes trying to do the same pose.

That's why you have to be careful when using photoshop morphs imo. 

Temple point design wise, talking from personal experience when choosing it, i didn't want it completely vertical which i didn't think would aesthetically fit but i also didn't want to have them as acute as Eugenix usually tended to design them so i tried to do a LOT of research on the aesthetic choice but i always would take my pictures i used to get my consultation and edit the temple point designs in an almost MS paint fashion on my phone to try determine what was best for me. I used Francisco Lachowski and Sean O'Pry as reference points as well as Jake Gylenhaal to tweak to myself. 

I think i'm very happy with the aesthetic design i chose but i would have in hindsight tweaked the right temple point to match the left and as things stand, i definitely feel like i would need a 2nd HT to get to the level of density and aesthetic refinement i would want. I'd like to dense pack the temple points more as well as the frontal hairline and tweak the design ever so slightly to match the left as mentioned and just create a slightly more feathered look a mm or so below where the hair HT was done with higher density. 

I think ultimately what a lot of individuals want to do is try to keep their damn hair in the first place. The saying "Prevention is better than the cure" is particularly poignant when it comes to hair loss. I'm probably sounding greedy with things, but i genuinely wish i started Finasteride around 18-21 and preserved my hair even more at the front and the 1st HT probably could have been a one and done. 

Yes, the morph feminizes his face a lot and is very distracting, but if you focus just on the forehead, the lesser slope gives the illusion of more prominent temples. I didn't do it btw, just found it on the internet. I've made this edit to blur the rest of the face and showcase the effect more:

Agree with you, too vertical and rounded off temples look very bad, but the very acute ones usually look bad too. Designs that mimic what Francisco Lachowski or Sean O'pry have temple wise are ideal IMO.

Definitely, go for that second transplant as a refinement to fill them and make them look as dense and natural as you wish. You deserve those temples, so go for them!

Indeed, most people just want to have their hair back. 

I wish I started a hair loss protocol earlier too, I'm 30 and would probably be classed as a Norwood 2 due to not having temples. I already have a consult set with a dermatologist to prescribe me oral minox and oral fin to start preventing hair loss. I'm in no rush for the ht and don't mind waiting a few years for it. I've seen that the most sought after ht docs have 2-3 years wait lists so thought it would be wise to start investigating and preventing hair loss now to be the best possible patient in the future. I have other financial priorities at the moment but can definitely save money for a top tier ht doctor in the next 2-3 years.

54 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Believe me when i say, the biggest worry i would have with that is accidentally getting hair on the outer part of the brows almost like hyper trichosis. That said, properly applied and carefully, i was considering using it myself on the very outer parts of my own eyebrows. Although blessed generally with thickness in shape and density on the inner to middle parts, towards the outer it begins to lose a bit of density. I don't want to grow the size of the brows but increasing the density of that area would be amazing. 

I think what's really funny is that OP used Francisco Lachowski as one og the examples in the OP and when i went for my HT, that's actually one of the hairline designs i also used for reference with Dr Das. However, and i cannot stress this enough to people. Your head shape and bone structures what determines sometimes how your hairline ends up looking sometimes a lot more than the design would have you realise and why some people can actually get away with having a better look visually for less grafts. 

That said, temple points ALWAYS need two things. One is sufficient density but with a properly natural and feathered appearance using the right calibre of hair at the closest angles near to the skin. Second is the aesthetic choice of design. 

Glad to see you posting here, I've been binge reading your thread lately. Amazing journey.

Francisco Lachowski's hairline is amazing, that man won the lottery face and hair wise. 

Regarding bone structure and head shape influencing hairline aesthetics, that's quite true. I've investigated that a lot and concluded it's mostly because of facial proportions and forehead slope:

As a rule of thumb, bitemporal width should be 85-90% of the bizygomatic width (the width of the cheekbones) for the best aesthetics. However, what if someone's cheekbones are too wide? Then he could would benefit from higher bitemporal width because it merges well with the bigonial width (the jaw width), which is not the outlier in this fictional scenario. 

Also noticed that people with straighter foreheads usually have more prominent temporal peaks on average. This morph changes lots of things, but ignore them and just look at the temporal peaks, which are unchanged. They "look" more prominent due to the straight forehead, but they aren't:

Francisco Lachowski has average width cheekbones and not a very sloped forehead, so the prominent temples naturally look great on him.

Someone with ie very wide cheekbones and a very sloped forehead could get his cheekbones reduced and his forehead augmented before having the hair transplant to accomodate the new desired hairline with temples more prominent than ever. You know what they say, if there's a will, there's a way...(not saying it should be done in all cases, but it could be done, it's a real possibility).

Food for thought tbh, sorry for the long rambling.

6 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

To me this temples look very similar in shape. The difference in my opinion is the hair length, If the top patient had longer hair it would look very similar to the bottom picture. FUE3661 has temples that are angled a bit more perpendicular. It's all subjective, some may prefer the sharper triangular peaks like Brad Pitt, which frame his face differently. In the end, its best to show your surgeon your hair before you went bald and stick to what was natural to you.

Mmm I think you may be right, the hair length may play a big role in the perception of his temples. Still, his are still more prominent, reaching the eyebrows in side profile.

Don't agree with your last sentence, I want more prominent temples than the ones I was born with (more temple "creation" than "recreation"). Of course, within the realms of logic and with naturalness in mind, nothing alien-esque.

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Square temples are mostly seen in afro patients. If you’re Caucasian trying to get square temples it’s not going to look natural . 

Different ethnicities exhibit different hairlines and temples. That’s why afro hair is a specialty. 

Afro hairline and temples. You see afro temple points go laterally downward. The hairline is usually 1-2 cm lower. 

 

Caucasian hairline and temples. The temple’s come outward and the hairline is naturally higher. The same goes for females. Caucasian females have naturally higher hairlines as well.

 

It doesn’t look good when a Caucasian gets a hairline that’s for an afro haired patient. It looks unnatural. Always stick with what is natural to you. 

Agree 100% with this.

Still, I was just wondering about the differences in design of most temple points work in caucasian people. Usually they end up being much more triangular shaped (or "dorito shaped"), like ie this:

To me, it looks very different to this (and both have the same ethnicity):

I understand it requires more grafts and is a more aggresive choice, but haven't seen this observation commented elsewhere other than for the need of using more grafts.

 @Fue3361 ended up with a hairline very similar to that second man, Thiago Bianco truly did an amazing job and has a great aesthetic eye IMO.

6 minutes ago, Sitries1 said:

Are you saying the modified picture is what you prefer?? I think the original picture looks WAY better.......

The temporal points must suit the face and not just be square for the sake of being Square.  

I prefer the first picture, the one with the prominent temples. The second one (edited) looks much worse in comparison.

That man has an amazing hairline and temples, and still retains that hairline at 40+ yo...some people are very lucky I guess

It's actually very interesting that his hairline is not low per se, it is proportional to his other facial thirds. The very prominent temples give the "illusion" of a low hairline.

It's refreshing to see such honest, high resolution, non glamour shot/flattering pictures. It inspires lots of confidence in your work. The result is astonishing, incredibly natural looking.

Do you also perform eyebrow transplants?

8 minutes ago, Fue3361 said:

I had to stop because my eyebrows blew up.  Here look at before/after:

 

 

And that’s 6 months of I think twice a day.  I had to stop due to too much growth for my taste.

Wow, great results!

Will try it ASAP, mine are and always were very sparse and light:

1 minute ago, Fue3361 said:

Consider a small drop of minoxidil on your eyebrows every day.  Within 6 months they can double+ in density.  It’s insanely easy and effective.

Will definitely try it. Already tried serums (Orphica Brow & Realash) for a period of 3 months but barely saw any result from it. 

Also the results I've seen from minoxidil aren't as dramatic as I want them to be, only eyebrow transplants seem to give the results I want (at least from what I've seen to this day).

@HugoX Hi! Your case with Dr Zarev is extremely impressive to say the least. I remember reading that he showed you many examples that were not uploaded to his website or social media. 

Did he show you cases where the patient was low norwood (let's say around Norwood 2) and he performed an aggressive temporal peak-juvenile hairline design like the ones in this thread? 

I know that he has an stellar reputation for high norwood patients, but I theorize that with his impeccable donor management, the very  dense, natural look of his results and his extremely dedicated, analytical approach to measurements and planning, he could be an outstanding option for having such a hairline done as a low norwood patient. In addition, he has the very best eyebrow transplant result I've ever seen (which is my other main interest apart from temples and hairline), so I'm naturally very interested despite the very long waiting list.

19 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

@Fue3361

He went to Dr. Thiago in Brazil.

 

As for your question, temple peaks in general are triangular. Of course, there are variations in nature. Just like some people are born with widow peaks, but the majority don’t have one. Design is something you can discuss with your surgeon. For me, my temples were triangular before going bald. Excuse the quality, this is a 20 year old picture. 

So keeping the shape that was natural for my face was important. 

Excellent work, they suit you very well and clearly will bring your looks closer to your younger self. 

18 hours ago, nicoandgello said:

@Fue3361is the best recent example as mentioned before 

some other cases that I remember: 

Its worth to note that most women that get ht, also get their temples closed and rounded so this sort of design is not weird, or unusual, its just hard to perform on guys due to inherent couse of mpb. Design like that requires more grafts, higher density, and a great surgeon that undestands how temple transplants work, and performs them often.  In my opinion though, you should get whatever hairline you want, I have seen men with "feminine", closed hairlines and they didnt look weird at all.

 

Thank you so much for the detailed response! Those Konior cases are mind blowing, the first one has such an aesthetic focused, natural design...it's just incredible.

Agree that some men do get away with more feminine hairlines and that one should pursue the hairline that really wants (as long as it a rational choice, ofc). The model in the OP has a very masculine hairline, the main difference would be that the temples have more hair in them and are more vertical. Stealing a great term I've read from @NARMAK, they are less "dorito shaped" (no offense intended) than what we usually see in hair transplants.

5 hours ago, Fue3361 said:

Dr. Thiago prefers to do the temporal points the way he did them on me.  I think it is a personal preference for surgeons.  Most temporal points I've seen him do are more similar to mine.  

I actually like the more angular look.  Not necessarily for my case, but for many others.  It's a cheaper way (cheaper in terms of graft number) to narrow the forehead than when done more vertically like mine.  

 

5 hours ago, Fue3361 said:

Yeah, mine was done the way you're showing:




Here's an easier way to see the design itself:

That's an amazing result. Love how he designed your temples. The result is not just dense and natural, but those temples really give a great frame to your face and masculinze your forehead in a very aesthetic way. Also IMO it adds to the perceived naturalness because of how unusual the design is compared to the more dorito shaped temples usually seen out there. 

34 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

As @Sitries1 self appointed PR Agent it would be remiss of me not to highlight the fine work of his TP's😁

Great work! I bet he is very happy

I personally prefer the temples designed like @Fue3361, but it's just preference tbh. @Sitries1 hair still looks amazing.