NegativeNorwood

Quoting Nate Diaz: "I'm not surprised motherf******"

Amazing result and presentation, as usual.

13 minutes ago, mandark86 said:

He is! He showed me his surgery room and another 2 surgery room for the futures trainees. Finger crossed for that!

Amazing news 🤩

Imagine not having scarring after the transplant and regrowing 20% of the donor...Verteporfin has mind blowing potential.

22 minutes ago, Kent said:

I posted wet comb through in natural light from Hasson 7 months result. He does great work in my opinion and experience. Everyone is different but I’m very happy. 

But you posted it, not them.

This is what I'm talking about

You can't tell how good Hasson work is with those pictures. Meanwhile, Feriduni's pictures are extremely detailed and allow the viewer to judge his work. Many other doctors like Munib Ahmad, Rafael De Freitas, Konior, Nadimi, Couto, etc post very detailed pictures.

I mean, you know their work is good because you are a patient, but for someone who isn't...there's no way to see it other than "trust me bro, they have a great reputation".

7 minutes ago, nicoandgello said:

Very good transplant density wise, but the planing and execution of hairline looks off to me. Hasson made your hair look like silvio from sopranos. I know this might be harsh, but if H&W wants to be among top clinics worlwide, they have to aim for excellence. "Decent" doesnt cut it.

I agree with you. I've seen how they present their cases and most of them don't show the hair slicked back, wet or being combed. If I didn't knew about the clinic reputation here, I would assume it's just another random, nothing special clinic.

They need to up their game when it comes to presenting their cases, can't compare them to the greats like Konior or Feriduni to name a few, without good pictures (both Feriduni and Konior take extremely detailed, high resolution, honest pictures). Impossible to do an apples to apples comparison without proper pictures.

They are not the only ones tho, most clinics, sadly, present their cases the same way.

On 6/3/2022 at 6:51 PM, jjsrader said:

I looked at the 'comparative' photos.  Ya'll that love 'wall of hair' hairlines are satisfied w/this surgeon's work.  Fine - I was just thinking of longer-term results & prefer hairlines w/more single-follicular units & a WIDER zone of finer-single-haired follicles before putting thicker 2-3-4 haired units behind & blending a bit more artistically.

To my eyes his hairlines look very similar for all his patients vs a more 'boutique' style surgeon who really takes the time & artistry to give very individualistic & unique hairlines across all hairloss/head shape types etc...

I'm sure he gets all the patients he needs so it's always good to look at a wide body of work so all of us can really drill down & pick a surgeon that fits our personal aesthetics as well.

Cheers!

Completely agree with you, I can see that in the 12 months post op pictures also. Still kudos to the clinic for presenting high resolution, honest pictures that allow people to see their work and draw their own conclusions about it. Most of the time pictures are so low quality that we struggle to tell which pixel is the hairline, so it's the same as not seeing any picture.

8 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

 

I am full Italian as far back as I can trace, but unfortunately for me I seem to have gotten all of the hair loss genes for the entire Italian nationality. My dad had that super thick hair with a great hair line up into his 70s and didn't even start going gray until 70. Me though, I was a NW 6 in my early 20s and my hair just kept getting worse from there.

Sad to read that mate, still you probably have god tier italian donor hair characteristics. 

My grandma was italian, but from the north, and in my family we have finer hair on average compared to south italians (except my sister, who not only has a low set hairline, but also strong temples and very dense hair, so she would be an outlier).

2 hours ago, ready4Hair said:

@NegativeNorwood As promised pics including donor area. Last 3 in order are 1) my old hairline 2 and 3) desired celeb hairlines

Go for it, you have very good hair at your age. I think your goal is very realistic.

You have to search for a good hair transplant surgeon worlwide, not for a good turkish (or indian, spaniard, american, etc) surgeon because is cheaper.

There are many good surgeons out there. All of them are expensive, some more than others. Not everything expensive is good, but everything good is expensive.

The best method is to look at their before and after pictures, they have to be taken from the same angles, with the same lighting, hair slicked back, wet and dry and at a high resolution. If the results presented don't meet those presentation standards: run, is a bad clinic, regardless of price and reputation.

Your hair has unlimited value, don't bargain with it.

33 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I'm amused at the term "Italian hairline" 

But it might be on to something. Both these men are of Italian origin, Mariano di Vaio and Judge Napolitano. 

Norwood level: Italian. 

True, the norwood reaper is afraid of the almighty italians.

It also explains why I haven't seen an italian surgeon recommended here...they barely have any work to do haha

3 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

some people in sopranos had absolute killer hairlines

vincent pastore

 

frank vincent

 

michael imperoli

 

 

maybe instead of juvenile hairline we should call it italian hairline?

 

 

also the wig from steve van zandt

 

"But, but....they are feminine because they are not Norwood 2!!!!" LOL

I want whatever those people are smoking, must be pretty fun.

3 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I think the truth is that the hairs at the very front, corners and temple points are the most vulnerable to DHT. So they are the first to go in the balding process, and sometimes the hairs behind it are resistant enough that they don't fall out in the person's lifetime. Same reason some men seem to progress to a Norwood 4 but no further - the Norwood 4 hairs are more sensitive to DHT than the Norwood 5 hairs, and in some men the hairs in the nw5 and above zone are tough enough to resist further balding during the man's life.

 

Perhaps if we lived to 300 years old, we'd see a lot of Norwood 1s like Ronald Reagan and Andrew Napolitano start to bald. 

Agree with you.

From Couto himself:

"Temple peaks NEVER recede WITHOUT receding THE HAIRLINE FIRST, so restoring
the hairline and not the temple peaks definitely provides an unnatural result.

In MOST MEN, the right corner advances more than the left corner,
and of course this also happens in temples, which generates
an ASYMMETRY in the lateral frame of the forehead that
the doctor recommends to be restored."

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CgUForkKoM1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Note how he used recession, not maturation.

"Don't get a hair transplant for your temples, you have a mature hairline"...pure nonsense again. But it doesn't matter to some, it won't get thru their thick skull the same way DHT does, despite presenting evidence posted by one of the best surgeons.

8 hours ago, Judelaw said:

I have to agree with OP, mature hairline is a really stupid term unless used in regards to surgical design. 
 

Google “mature hairline” and pretend you’re a young guy trying to convince himself medication isn’t necessary. It’s pictures of clearly balding NW2-3s and the articles treat mature hairlines and MPB as two completely different things. 
 

The 3rd search result comes from one of the biggest hair loss products in America, saying an inch of recession is totally normal and the majority of hair loss “specialists” agree that a maturing(receding) hairline is not balding. 
 

7 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Superb thread. 

But let me blow your mind; Tom Cruise has actually receded since he was 22. This is what his hairline used to look like in 1984. 

It was even more aggressive than it is now. Crazy right? Maybe 1 in 100 white men are as lucky as Tom. 

7 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Good demonstration that while there are certainly masculine and feminine hairline shapes, there is also some degree of overlap. Some men have hairlines that lean towards the feminine side, and some women have hairlines that would look fine on a man.

 

Thanks gentlemen, the term indeed is completely senseless. Why don't people use "mature crown", by the same logic?

"That's not balding, that's a mature crown. Is normal for your age. Don't get a HT, ethical surgeon X will reject you if he truly cares about you"

The amount of absurdity is astonishing, yet people cope in the most colorful ways possible to not admit they are balding or that they are not as masculine as they mom told them because it is comfortable to them to continue that way.

PS: Tom Cruise actually has a "mature hairline" too....wow, great insight Rafael. I want a "mature hairline"...like Tom Cruise's 😉

8 hours ago, ready4Hair said:

@NegativeNorwood Those are really good points re Hasson. Though I do know his reputation remains stellar. Perhaps given the time gap other doctors have caught up to him making the $6 a graft not necessary.  Any idea what Feriduni charges?  If I can do this for $15k or so it starts to look reasonable. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow. Thanks for the time and assistance.

You're welcome sir, happy to help when I can.

Feriduni charges 4 to 5€ euros per graft according to this website, I assume VAT is already included (normally, EU prices tend to always have VAT included, but lately I've seen some hair transplant doctors that don't include it in the price, like Mwamba, who AFAIK reportedly charges 3€, but without VAT):

https://www.best-hair-clinics.com/clinics/dr-bijan-feriduni-hasselt-belgium.html

38 minutes ago, ready4Hair said:

@NegativeNorwoodFrankenstein harilines are the ones that go straight across, often with no nod to softening or temples. I really am looking for hairline expert, one who does irregular hairlines, uses finer hair up front, created new temple points, etc. I'm 60, planning on being aggressive as this is my first HT and put it off for a few years now due to family issues which Covid made worse. Eugenix said I need 2700, I think that was for hairline, so likely will end up with  4k if I a) want temple points b) want some crown and c) want front to be as aggressive as possible. If I can swing a loan I might just end up with Hasson as he hits all of the above and it is just a hop up to the west coast vs around the world.

I took a little time to see Hasson pictures and compare it to some Mwamba and Feriduni cases...Hasson doesn't show the hair combed back, nor the hair wet or combed, like Feriduni or Mwamba do, so you can't really compare his work to them. Also the Feriduni and Mwamba hairlines I've seen are have nape hairs and are irregular. Are you sure we are talking about the same doctors?

That's a pretty stark difference in presentation. Notice how Hasson doesn't even show the hair slicked back (let alone combed or wet). IMO that presentation is not enough to judge hairline work.

Not shilling or anything like that, just my observation. In real life, you'll have to comb your hair back and it will be wet after you shower, so that's what you have to look for before making a decision. The transplant will be even more evident if you like to wear your hair short, which is also an important factor.

I think Feriduni, Mwamba, Couto (or Konior in the US), Zarev and Munib Ahmad have the best hairlines tbh. In the US, Nadimi is also great but haven't seen temple work from her yet.

Just now, Gatsby said:

@NegativeNorwood what's with the axe to grind? Have you been butchered in the past like me? It's cool to agree to disagree. All the best!

No axe, no agenda. Haven't got a hair transplant yet. Just my opinion.

100% agree with you, diversity of opinions is good and we can agree to disagree. All the best for you too 🤝

2 minutes ago, ready4Hair said:

@NegativeNorwoodFrankenstein harilines are the ones that go straight across, often with no nod to softening or temples. I really am looking for hairline expert, one who does irregular hairlines, uses finer hair up front, created new temple points, etc. I'm 60, planning on being aggressive as this is my first HT and put it off for a few years now due to family issues which Covid made worse. Eugenix said I need 2700, I think that was for hairline, so likely will end up with  4k if I a) want temple points b) want some crown and c) want front to be as aggressive as possible. If I can swing a loan I might just end up with Hasson as he hits all of the above and it is just a hop up to the west coast vs around the world.

Understood. I've seen a few very good cases from Feriduni and Mwamba tho (at least to my eye), but have to admit I haven't looked into Hasson due to me living in Europe.

You should go to one you consider the best, if that's Hasson, then go for that loan and be happy with your decision and no regrets ("what if I went to x instead?"). You deserve to enjoy your new hairline to the fullest, so go for the surgeon who's work you like the most 👍

4 minutes ago, ready4Hair said:

@NegativeNorwoodI looked into Feriduni awhile back, I was on the fence about his results (some great some not so for me) but also that is a trip to Belgium. Which I'd love for leisure but not so different from India in terms of travel. So far don't love Mwamba, to my eye he does a lot of the 'Frankenstein' hairlines as I call them.

Bansai looks very good, I'll add her to shortlist with Hasson, Vories for now. What is Rahal's rep these days? He was softa King of the FUT for awhile with great hairlines, not sure if his rep kept up with FUE.

Mind explaining the "frankestein hairlines"?

I think both have great results for temples (which is my main interest too + eyebrows) and hairlines, and their pictures are of great quality, so their work can be appreciated correctly.

I've also looked at Rahal but couldn't find pictures of high enough quality to make an informed judgement, I know he has a great reputation, but I need high quality pictures like the ones Konior, Feriduni, Mwamba or Munib Ahmad use to be able to tell if he's that good or not. Otherwise, is a gamble.

Just now, MattJosh said:

Thank you for proving my point, completely clueless you are buddy

it appears that you have certain people you admire on a pedestal and refuse to think otherwise , whatever makes you happy

 

- Presents a well crafted argument and a true before and after picture of a celebrity who really got a hair transplant to prove the opposite.

- "Duh you clueless you proved my point buddy hehe"

17 minutes ago, MattJosh said:

the OP is clueless

 

Tom Cruise had a HT in 2006 , he had a bowl cut the whole year and you can see in 2007-8 the change see pic, and another after 2015

Despite his extreme self care, he's losing something as in the pic from 2 years ago below

 

Henry Cavill had a HT in between 2020/21, here is a pic of him in 2019 and that's for a photoshoot(where they make everything look much better), look back over a decade and you see his recession growing, he's made a great choice by doing it

 

Brad Pitt might had a very small one in the 2012/13 years when he was shaving his temporal points and having a middle part for a year or so, look at his brother, great hair but some minor recession

 

As for meds, they are all on meds

 

 

They have the same hair, just different lighting and wet vs dry hair in Cruise's pictures. Pitt shaved the temples for a movie role. Cavill didn't have a hair transplant. Tremendous straw grasping you did there, you truly are clueless if you don't understand how lighting can influence the perception of hair. That's why there are so many bad doctors out there, because they use favorable lighting and low resolution pictures to show their results as better than they actually are. You are doing the opposite and showing pictures with bad lighting to prove your crazy theory.

14 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

I agree that most celebrities have had hair transplants.

The vast majority of guys have MPB, yet if you only looked at Hollywood actors, you would think MPB is some super rare, freak, horrible condition.

Coincidence? I think not. 

You need to be a happy man accepting that there's people out there with better genetics than you, delusion is not happiness. Many people in Hollywood had hair transplants, just not Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise or Henry Cavill.

James Franco is a good example of a celebrity with minimal hair loss that got a hair transplant, and the change is pretty evident:

He has unlimited money, same Hollywood friend's circle and connections...yet the small change is noticeable when you compare pictures with the same lighting. Do you really think Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt can get away with it and he can't? Non sense, all of them have the same amount resources, the difference is that Cruise and Pitt didn't have a hair transplant.

Go and tell him this is a "mature crown" and that he's not balding:

Same logic as "mature hairline"...none, pure nonsense.

8 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

RE: Tom Cruise, I’m not referring to the bloat in his face. That was obviously from some cosmetic procedure he had done. He had markings on his neck as well that were not there many weeks later. I think it’s extremely plausible that he may have had 1 or 2 mini FUE sessions to add density. This is extremely common, especially in that world, way more than you think and much easier to do than you think. 

RE: Mature v Juvenile, sadly, you’re entirely misinformed. There is absolutely a well understood difference between a mature hairline and a juvenile hairline that does not translate into MPB. See below for an excellent interpretation:

 

What Is a Mature Hairline?

The hairline is a prime indicator for the overall status and health of a person’s hair, especially for men, who tend to show signs of pattern balding on the front of the scalp and sides of the temples.

In the hair restoration space, we usually use the term “mature hairline” to refer to the natural hair maturation process in men between the ages of 17 and 29.

A helpful point of view is to compare a mature hairline to a juvenile or youthful hairline. 

While juvenile hairlines are typically low and full on the frontal region of the scalp, mature hairlines are set back, closer to the vertex, often with more space on either side of the head in a slight M-shaped pattern.

A mature hairline should not be confused with a receding hairline, however. Receding hairlines advance beyond what is considered to be a mature hairline, characterized by the miniaturization of hairs on the front and sides of the scalp.

 

Cosmetic procedures are common in hollywood, but he didn't get a hair transplant with that hair. It's camera, lighting and whatever he used to style his hair. Go and look at turkish hair mills before and after pics, you'll see how the before lighting is always similar to that picture, to make the hair appear worse than it actually is.

Hair loss is hair loss, doesn't matter how you want to name it.

You either have all your hair, or you lose hair (could be a little, could be a lot).

Simple as that. Most hairlines are M shaped to some degree (in caucasian men), so practically no one is born with a completely flat hairline. They just name the small level of recession "mature hairline", when in reality is just a small level of recession.

You don't turn out 21, get your driver's license and buy booze and automatically a Norwood 2 appears out of the blue with sign that says "congratulations, you are now a mature man". That article is cope and non sense.

11 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

It’s a silly thing to discuss because -

1) Hairlines are subjective. ALL that matters is if the patient is happy with his/her hairline. That’s it. 

2) Hairlines can be high and still look terrible if a person has a wide face, large forehead etc. The key is designing the hairline incorporating the proper corners, central hairline, and temple points for the best framing for each person’s face.

3) Some people feel much more comfortable with a younger / youthful hairline where others actually prefer a classically more mature hairline which just translates in my mind to a higher hairline at it’s core.

4) Technically speaking there IS a difference between a juvenile and adult/mature hairline. This typically occurs as a young man goes through puberty and get their large hit of T/DHT and the hormonal profile rebalances to an adult profile. The hairline will then take on some natural change/recession which mimics the mature hairline. This does NOT mean or translate to true recession or MPB. 

5) I believe both Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise have had some hair work done. It is extremely easy to camouflage mini FUE sessions especially with no shave. So I would not immediately discount that both of them have had some work done, especially Tom Cruise. He was caught at a ball game during Covid looking like an entirely different person with his son. Check out his hair in particular. 

 

Bloated face + hair styled differently. He didn't get a hair transplant. As you implied, the wider face, plus the camera's lens distortion, angle of the picture and lighting (in addition of hair texture, could have used gel instead of powders to style his hair) make the hair appear different, but in reality is the same.

Btw we are talking about calling a Norwood 2 a mature hairline instead of hair loss, which is wrong, doesn't matter if by puberty or MPB, it is hair loss. Massive strawman argument you made.

Sure, there's people who prefer a Norwood 3 hairline, as there's people who likes sharing their wife with other men. Nothing wrong with that, "is just their preference" (not mine tho). It has nothing to do with calling Norwood 2 a mature hairline and not hair loss (which, spoiler: it is).

POV: you want to go from Norwood 2 to Norwood 0 at 30+ years old (with strong donor, slow hair loss and responding well to meds) and post it here:

12 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

I think a lot of HTs will look unnatural in higher age.Too straight the hairline

True for poorly executed transplants with bad, straight hairline designs, but is has nothing to do with this thread because the hairlines posted in the OP are not straight:

Look at that fake, short hollywood wig (in case you didn't notice, this last sentence is strong sacarsm).