NikosHair

Thanks for the info. I was quoting the prices i'd seen on here for the XYON product (site sponsor).

This isn't the case. How do with know? Because you posted a large scale randomized, double‐blind, double dummy, parallel‐group, 24‐week study was conducted in adult male outpatients with AGA at 45 sites in Europe. The company that funded the study was Almirall S.A. 1.58 billion market cap. company. The study: Efficacy and safety of topical finasteride spray solution for male androgenetic alopecia: a phase III, randomized, controlled clinical trial https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9297965/

I agree. It does appear these some of these companies are unwilling to obtain verifiable independent studies. Companies/Doctors marking their own homework just doesn't cut it.

Agreed!

Not on my bottle. No script required (different rules for different countries, I guess).

3-5mins as per the instructions on a Nizarol bottle for treating dandruff. 20mins may be fine for some, but the other chemicals they use to formulate a shampoo may irritate. As with so much in the hair loss world, the studies showing it improves AA is sketchy and inconclusive.

As you are aware, the likely explanation for the lower effect on serum DHT levels is the molecular mass of DUT at greater than 500g/mol. Essentially it's barely penetrating skin ('500 Dalton rule'). While anecdotal accounts have their place, have you found any good quality studies that show topical DUT grows hair without systemic lowering DHT and without sides? I read multiple accounts of struggling to cover their balding areas, let alone the whole of their scalp, using the prescribed dose. Have you found some products that are better for coverage? Edit: This was a discussion on the lack of coverage I was reading.

I understand the thought process. If you have disposable income or the ability to make sacrifices in other areas, it might be worth a punt. Keep us updated. I'm sure there will be many others in the community interested in your progress.👍

IMO you made a smart decision and are on track for a great result. Addressing the issue of age. We judge ourselves by guys of a similar age. A 50+ guy with a NW2/NW3 will feel they are ahead of the pack, yet a 25yo will feel they have aged prematurely. It's not that hair loss is unimportant to older guys, it's just an accepted part of the ageing process. Your approach to top up the weak areas while maintaining existing areas(meds) is spot on.

It's true your hormone levels fluctuate throughout the day (within reason). The simple solution is to test at the same time of the day, ideally mornings. Hormone levels are important data points to track the meds and their effect on your body.

Interesting to hear about your personal experience with topicals👍 The main takeaways from your experience are: The systemic reduction in serum DHT is directly related to the dose of topical finasteride. Despite the marketing, topicals do enter the bloodstream and have a significant effect on DHT levels. We need to be highly disciplined with the amount of product applied to the scalp. The problem for many is the larger the area of hair loss the greater the requirement to apply more product with increased risk of side effects. @Gatsby highlighted an important issue. We need to consider the preservation of all areas of our hair, not just the current balding areas. If there is any credibility to the theory of localised blocking of DHT in topicals (not proven), then the product should be applied to all areas of the scalp. We then have a problem highted above with reduced serum DHT and greater risk of side effects.

The idea of getting the same results as oral but with less of the drugs getting into your system is attractive but as you look into the subject the flakier the evidence becomes. What's your view on topicals having read the thread?

Religiously, but always on the lookout for an alternative to pill popping

This is a fabrication. Can you provide the quote where I say Adrian is on the payroll? There is no quote. More importantly, I believe his views are his own and he generously shares his experience & time with the community for free. This is just a pretext for banning people that don't share your view on a subject. When I asked him about the product he used, you felt the need to answer for him rather than allow him to answer. This isn't the delicate subject of a failed HT, it's about big business justifying the huge cost of compounding low-cost meds with limited evidence. Many people have accused you of bias and vested interest in XYON. I've avoided going down that route because it's unproductive. I'm more interested in debating the substance of the studies and hearing your views on the points I raised in your conversation with the two founders of XYON. (You are still the only user who has expressed a view in favour of topicals)

Plenty of good low-cost generics out there. Just get your meds from a reputable source and have your DHT levels tested before and after.

@Gatsby The discussion around the efficacy of topicals will continue to be hotly debated. If you decide to move from orals to topicals I'm sure the community will welcome hearing about your experience. Thanks again for your contribution👍

Seriously @Gatsby, these were the question(s) I asked. @Melvin- Moderator is just creating a firestorm, which is a distraction from the important questions you, I, and many of the other contributors have. I'm disappointed if that comes across as offensive as I was genuinely interested in your experience of topicals.

I always value your contributions on there. You asked if it's worth trying topicals and specifically referenced the XYON product and it's suspended delivery method. That was where the scepticism occurred. (around the 1 hour mark on the youTube vid) The point I'm making is ... it's an ongoing debate and collectively we are all looking for answers.

It's healthy to have a debate over the finding of studies. Imagine if I had created the poll and allowed one answer. Is that the positivity you are looking for? Topical Fin/Dut have not received FDA approval. Therefore, it is entirely reasonable we try to understand the benefits of these products. The industry has been plagued with false promises and snake oils salesmen. Topicals have some encouraging data but there are major questions to be answered. Not least because many of the people looking for hope in these product are desperate for answers and may not have the level of disposable income to support these high-priced subscriptions. I embrace the debate as you do. I heard your contribution on the Bald Truth last week with Dr Anderson. There was a lot of scepticism in the studio as I recall.

Oh the drama😊 - It was entirely reasonable given his unqualified support for topicals to establish if he actually used the stuff and if he did (which he didn't) was a freebie or paid for out of his hard-earned cash.

Another observation, having watched your video with the founder's 'Hair Transplant Network Podcast Ep #10 - XYONHealth Topical Finasteride BIG ANNOUNCEMENT!' None of the studies independently tested to see if the product actually grew hair. None of the studies independently tested for side effects. The systemic reduction of DHT was 31% vs 34% (XYON fin vs Alcohol based Fin). Negligible difference when we consider its USP is the 'claimed' suspension of the drug in the skin not in the blood.

The poll was conducted to hear the views. The observation is 50% of the Yes vote have expressed a view and only 20% of the No vote (1 user and 1 non-user).

Interesting observation: 10 users accounts have come out in favour of topicals yet only 1 user has voiced their support🙄

There are far less rigorous controls on the quality control of supplements such as saw palmetto vs FDA-approved drugs. You don't want to take a supplement from a health store to regulate something as crucial as your hormones.

It's true you should always get a baseline. Fin has a reasonably short half-life but I would give a week to 10 days after a dose of fin before getting tested. Another week to 10 days on 0.25mg before getting retested. It's a reasonable question but the testing will help you understand how your DHT levels respond to different dosages. Have you tried stopping the fin for a couple of weeks and seeing if your sides disappear?