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Looking good acegik. Starting to see improvement coming in. Pleased for you. Have a good day.

Pup You are just going over old ground its been obvious to me basically since I starting reading posts about MARAL its only techs doing the work. I have also seen several posts presently saying that there are other docs here that do a lot less that the patients might be aware of. I've stated this before all of you that have had a ht actually knew who was going to be doing what during your procedure? What did you know of the experience of each individual in the team? Pup if you want to ask these questions or point things out like this don't just do it on marals threads but ask them of other doctors patients aswel. I feel that would be fair enough because at the moment you just seem like a MARAL hater for whatever reason. If the patient is happy be pleased for them if their not then I think your perfect right to say whatever. You have a good evening

Thanks for posting up the photos. As your at 8 months it is highly unlikely this is gonna be the final result its only gonna get better. I'm genuinely pleased for you. Have a good day and enjoy that hair

As he distributed the grafts over a large area you have obviously had very good graft survivability. The results are clear to see and as for the late growth we are all different but what matters is that we get the growth eventually. It would interesting to know just how many docs do what during their procedures and what the technicians do. But more than anything it is the result that counts. Does it actually matter that much to you who did what or are you more interested in getting the result to make you happy? Anyway I think you should be happy it is a very good improvement. Congratulations. Have a good day

Hello falco Yeah the obvious growth is start I to kick in now. Best of luck with continued growth. Have a good day

I'm not prepared to to see my kids go without just so i can have some hair this is one of many reasons why i have not done anything about it. If i had unlimited funds or even just enough to undertake ht surgery without it having any impact on my loved ones i would of done it years ago. I feel so sorry for the countless cases that just want hair on their head that end up in the terrible situations they do just because of someone elses greed. The extremes of human nature never cease to amaze me. Have a good day

Thats the point KO its your choice no one elses.

Hello Dr and thank you again for your reply. My one motivating factor is the vast majority of these clinics i believe will be doing tremendous harm to a massive amount of people i think we can agree on that. And i think it better that people who have no other alternative other than to go to these clinics at least be pointed in the direction of the best of them.Now is that a bad thing? I do not.. I am not a representative of any clinic i am a uk citizen and i would say a norwood 6 whos been looking to do something about my hair loss for some 15 years. And the fact of the matter is i would rather be bald than take a leap of faith and go to one of these hair mills to be disfigured like so many obviously do. If in fact there are good clinics within the category of tech led clinics i might well end up going to one but seeing as how my desperation to cure my hair loss has subsided somewhat with age i dont know for sure if i will ever undergo a ht. Why does your country allow this practice to exist in the first place ? Its ridiculous, alarming, wrong Thank you once again You have a nice evening

Thank you for your response Dr karadeniz. Now you've said there are somewhere in the region of 500 so called clinics is that correct? And I am assuming you have not seen results from all 500 so you are tarring them all with the same brush are you not? Your sweeping statement might be for all I know correct but it is without doubt lacking any credibility. If we were talking about half a dozen clinics and you had seen results from them all that would be different. You would not want us to base our opinions about you on the linked case earlier in this thread were you admitted to giving someone a very poor result would you? If we are to take your word as being fact please only tell us they are fact if you know for certain they are. So we cannot take this as true even though for all we know it might be correct. I think we would be hard pressed to get a Dr to be totally impartial as basically its admitting that its not just them that has the skill set to do a first class hair transplant This is precisely why it could be sorted once and for all if a technician led clinic would apply to be prescreened and evaluated to see the standard of their work that's of course if said clinics wish to be evaluated Thank you and have a nice day

Thanks for your input Dr. Are there to your knowledge any clinics in turkey were it is just technicians doing the work that are producing consistently good results ? Have a good day

There are 2 recommended here and I don't know how many others maybe Dr karadeniz could answer your question.

Wrong KO i am not here promoting any cheap or expensive clinic What i am trying to do as should us all is to address a problem of clinics such as in this quote below hurting vulnerable people with no other option than to go to cheaper clinics. Do i condone these clinics i most certainly do not. Do i condemn these clinics i most certainly do. The statement quote just goes to show the extent of the problem and going off the figures. If one clinic works 5 days a week and works on just one person and is open 45 weeks of the year that then.over the 500 clinics that's 112500 people that are put at risk of harm. What i have said time and time again is that a tech led clinic under the supervision of a dr should after under taking a pre screening process having shown consistently good results should be reccomended in a separate catogory to steer people away from these clinics. I think we should all be duty bound as a caring community to help one another.Protect and advise one another. So ko your above statement not only offends me but is completely missing the point. Quote from dr karadeniz Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 31 Last Online: Yesterday 04:47 PM Default HAIR TRANSPLANT IN TURKEY: Overview by Dr. Karadeniz Dear Members and Future HT Candidates, I am writing this short overview about how things work in Turkey hoping that it will be useful for future candidates. As a relatively new member to the forum I am seeing a lot of wild discussions going on at multiple threads about HT in Turkey. I will try and give objective information, avoiding being for or against any clinics in Turkey as I am a Turkish plastic surgeon and hair surgeon myself. It is estimated that there are about 500 hair transplant teams or clinics in Turkey; therefore this country has been one of the main centres in the world for hair surgery and attracting many patients around the globe. The two main characteristics of hair surgery are that the prices are very cheap and surgical teams solely consist of technicians and staff from various backgrounds such as nurses, ambulance paramedics, anaesthesiology technicians, cardiovascular surgery pump technicians, car mechanists, secretaries and even housewives! Hair transplants are not perceived as surgical procedures by this nation and are treated like going for a hair cut. A Turkish billionaire who drives a 1 million Euro car will hope to have a HT for 1000 Euros! There are around 10 medical doctors in Turkey that actually do parts of the surgery such as graft harvesting and recipient site incisions. The remaining 490 teams do not have a doctor that is a part of the operation. Not surprisingly FUE is the only technique used by these teams. They quickly teach each other how to drill down the patients scalp to extract grafts and the teams multiply in number rapidly. To my knowledge there are only 4 clinics left in Turkey that are able to do FUT. Despite being a huge HT country, there are about 30-40 technicians in Turkey that know how to prepare grafts from a skin strip. There are 4-5 technicians that are trained to do slivering; that is less than the number of hair surgeons! The financial balance between the two techniques are altered and it is 3-4 times more expensive for a Turkish clinic to be able to offer FUT, compared to FUE. Under these circumstances, is it a good idea to go for a HT in Turkey? I think it is as long as you know what you are buying. What do you buy when you go for a HT in one of the technicians FUE clinics and who should go for it? This is what you are going to get: Technicians will aggressively drill down through your scalp for about 5000-6000 times. You can usually see this if you look at immediate postop photos of the donor area. The transection rate is going to be 50-70%, which means you will get 2000-4000 grafts that are severely transected. These grafts will be placed but will show growth less than expected. About 2000 grafts will have disappeared due to total transection. Since partially transected grafts grow some hair, there will be significant improvement despite the wasted grafts. Since these technicians have a very primitive knowledge of recipient site incisions, it will usually look unnatural, or at least too widely spread. The major problem will be at the donor area. When a Turkish technicians operates on your donor area, the donor is mostly finished. Most patients will have significant moth-eaten appearances at the donor area. Patients who have a very strong donor might still not show signs of weakness and permit another session of FUE, but that will be it. There is no hope of doing 3 or 4 procedures. I usually do only FUT if I know a Turkish technician has operated on a patient. I have tried many times to do FUE after a technician and failed to get anything. Now is this acceptable for a patient? It can be if the patient just wants some hair on his head and feels that he has no hope of getting a proper one in his life time. If the above scenario doesn't suit you, is there a better option in Turkey? Certainly; the 10 doctors in Turkey including the 2 recommended surgeons on this network can provide excellent HT procedures for a much cheaper price than their counterparts in Europe and USA. The only difficulty is to find them, because they typically are much smaller companies than the large technicians clinics who do 10-20 procedures a day. These boutique clinics have a hard time surviving in the market due to the wide unlicensed competition with very low prices. Doing these procedures for even double the price of the technicians doesn't make it a very profitable business, considering that they can do only 1 patient a day. They don't have much of an advertising budget. Agents usually prefer to work with technicians to get more customers and make more profit. So only the patients can find these boutique clinics. I think this is enough information on summarising this topic. I once again want to emphasise that I do not want to be involved in any competition with other clinics and have no intentions of advertising my own. I hope it will serve as a guidance to future patients. Regards, Dr. Ali Emre Karadeniz And apart from turkey were else does this practice go on? And KO dont try and suggest anything about me,you dont know me and never will my only intention is trying to be compassionate towards others and try and see no harm comes to them and the matter of cost is secondary.maybe you would be better taking this same approach to life. All have a nice day

Hello Dr Karadeniz. As you stated in this http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/166406-my-disastrous-journey-transmed.html thread that you were a inexperienced dr in training and this apart from the popping was the reason for the very poor result. We all start and do things for the first time and the more complex the task the harder it is to master. Would you if shown consistent good results from a technician led team that do all the work actually say it is such? A good result is a good result and it is irrelevant who made the result happen. Now am i saying that there are not technician led teams that are going to produce terrible results i am certainly not there are. Did the patient in the thread high lighted above care or even know you were a inexperienced dr at the time? it was the final result that matters most to him. Am i saying that technician led teams should replace dr clinics? no i am not and i think it will never happen but they can in my opinion co exist. This is the reason i think the idea of some form of recommendation for technician led clinics pre screened showing consistently good results should be implemented to steer vulnerable unaware of being damaged.Whether it is from a novice dr as you were back then or one of the hundreds of clinics in turkey you've mentioned. You have a nice day

Sean and Future very good points. Apart from the doctor that you would research into how many people actually knew anything about the rest of the team involved? Seen as how this could have such a massive bearing on the final result for the patients should it not be that on clinic web sites for instance have a page / pages with the back round of the whole staff or at least the ones that are going to be hands on during a procedure? As you say Sean training, how many years experience qualifications if any how many years at this clinic. ect ect ect it all bodes well for you to ask these questions and if your not satisfied look elsewhere. The choice is yours no one else's and make the wrong one and your original problem of hair loss may seem a walk in the park. Research Research Research to try and glean as much information as possible about who will be doing all parts of the procedure. How many cases have we seen over the years were desperate people have paid out a fortune to end up horribly disfigured and its ruined the lives totally. Its a individuals choice were one goes now you can break the bank and go $10 or more per graft or less than $0.50 its up to you but do your research. All have a good day

Yaz89. Great story and a excellent result. I love happy endings Good luck to you for the future. Have a nice day

Neither does it mean they shouldn't be. Have a good day

There are approximately 15 cases on the first 2 or 3 pages of fue cases but they are admittly not at the 12 month mark. I think you must have unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved on a norwood 7 with 4800 grafts. Abcd,s hair is thin but anyone with realistic expectations wood know this and would understand that a second procedure would be nessasry. But my or your opinion does not matter its the individual the patients that are happy and that is all that matters to them. How many of marals patients here are happy or unhappy with their results the over whelming majority are happy and who are you I or anyone else to show anything but pleasure that they are happy. You obviously do not believe there is any place here for these types of clinics but there are people here that obviously disagree. You don't need to go to one of these clinics but there are people that have very few options why would you deny them the opportunity?. I chose a long time ago not to ever undergo a Fut procedure but I would never preach to others that they should take the same stance. Have a good day

Pup. Abcd is around the 12 month mark is his a good bad or inferior HT.that is just 1 but there are several have a look through them give a honest opinion on the results from maral compared to several recommended docs here and I think the results stack up well against any of them. Even bill stated that he is achieving good results is he a good or bad judge? Every one is a individual that can choose were they go all I am saying is that if this community could put the options available including technicians led teams what harm is there in that. Have a good day

So pup apart from the medical training what sets surgeons apart from the techs? Artistry ?

Hello pup. All of these are relevant questions that should the maral clinic be pre screened should be addressed and I would assume that bill or pat will ask them. Maybe bill could update the community as to whether Dr maral has answered any or all of these questions. Have a good day

I think my previous post should answer this question. Have a good day

Thank you once again future for your contributions to this thread. Firstly thank you for your apology for appearing condescending and it was rather but I'm a adult and can handle it but the most important thing is that the issues get addressed. I sincerely hope your grandmother is now in good health and thank you for letting me know how you ended up here debateing these issues with me. OK I will just run a scenario by you for your input if you would please? Dr Koray erdogan decides he wants to step back and just have a supervising role during procedures. He trains his technicians personally and feels 100% confident in their capabilities. They carry on with this setup and produce results that both Dr erdogan and his patients are very happy with should he have his recommendation revoked here? I think that whether Dr maral has sufficient experience personally performing HT surgery and that he feels that the training,experience and results his team are producing are of a high standard.are of paramount concern and he obviously thinks they are. I think the main purpose of this site is to educate,inform and ultimately protect vulnerable hair loss sufferers. And even though we are adults the over whelming desire for a better situation does make us vulnerable. People may say that they can appreciate that hair loss has a dramatic impact unless you have suffered hair loss you cannot fully comprehend how sufferers feel. The horror stories that most of us have seen were there has been total disregard for another human being astounds me. The point in starting this thread was never to promote one clinic or another but to make sufferers aware of a possible avenue they could go down safely to achieve their objective nothing more nothing less.An achievable objective for people with very limited financies. Just as I would advise someone to avoid going with a clinic they nothing about I would also want them to be made aware that they can get satisfaction hopefully without have to make massive sacrifices just for hair on their head. Do you send your child to university or get some hair I think this is a appauling situation brought about by the cost of hair transplant surgery and is wrong. Vulnerable people deserve the right for help and if the network Denys them all the possibilities I feel they would be doing hair loss sufferers a injustice. Once again future thank you for your input. And yes it is blatantly obvious you are passionate about hair loss As am I . You have a nice day

Scar5 thank you for your input there are to few people on this thread at the moment and the more the better. I agree the world is driven by greed and people try to protect what they have or even kill to get what they want from the poorest in society to countries going to war. Is the world a better place for it i think not. Is pressure going to be put on the forum owners by the current recommended doctors to dismiss potential recommendation of clinics doing fue were the technicians do the work under the supervision of a doctor at a 10th of their prices?Again i do not know. Do HT doctors get into HT surgery to help vulnerable people suffering hair loss or for the financial gain? Again i do not know but i would guess is that the majority of HT doctors no matter what country they are practicing in are classed by the working class people as wealthy . As long as a clinic operates under certain criteria and is pre screened by bill or pat and found to meet a good standard what is the problem with recommending such clinics ? All have a good day.

Thank you Future and yes it was taken as sarcasm. To answer your questions

Also Future whilst I will Agee to try my best not to insult or offend anyone I would appreciate you doing the same. The sarcasm (did you learn this during your graduate level anatomy training) wasn't appreciated. Thanks and have a nice day