Hairtroubles

4 minutes ago, Legend007 said:

U done for if u don’t do something to stabilize ur loss . 
the way it’s going it be gone sooner than u think ,, so don’t waste time with generic hairloss crap like supplements ,,

don’t listen to Melvin , he doesn’t know anything about hair ,, he’s a just a moderator on a hairloss forum with 3 hair transplants . 

I cant tell if that was sarcasm or not telling me not to listen to Melvin?

let me guess, youre just saying, 'take fin bruh'.

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

Ketocanozole shampoo you can buy nizoral it’s the most common. Here’s the thing, no one’s gonna give you a recipe or tell you exactly what you have to do. I don’t want to come off rude, but I know your mental state is not what it should be to get surgery.

Here are some facts you must accept prior to getting surgery. 
 

#1. Your hair will never be perfect. 
#2. You’ll need more than one HT in your lifetime.

#3. Despite choosing the best surgeon theres a possibility your HT could fail. 
#4. You could experience permanent shock loss and end up with netgain. 

#5. You will have scarring in the donor area. Which would be evident if you ever shave your head. 

If you cannot accept any of these facts do not get a hair transplant. There’s a ton of clinics that will only tell you what you want to hear, not the reality. That’s not what we do here. We educate first, then recommend.

Okay, sounds good, I used Nizoral shampoo, did you get dry/itchy scalp from it? It might not have been from Nizoral but my scalp was in a bad place three weeks ago from using it three times a week. I dont know if it was from the nizoral shampoo though?

Also are you sure about Oral MInoxidil/Minoxidil as a DHT blocker, with Keto, and Acid, surely that doens't block DHT?

I udnerstand, I would rather NOT have a HT - but i dont want to risk my life sexual side effects for a pill/hair. With that being siad, i am derpessed from this and want to fix it.

5 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

^this is exactly what I’m saying. As a community, we need to see the signs of a poor candidate, someone looking for a quick fix without wanting to do the work to maintain their hair or research. He was highly desperate to hear what I did and then went silent went I showed my crown.

To me that shows unrealistic expectations combined with a bad mental state and refusal to try medication. All these things combined are a recipe for disaster. We all know how shady this industry can be, for sure there will be a surgeon who will tell him everything he wants to hear, to take his money.

But in a years time I could see him back here desperate for a solution to get his hair fixed. Acting on emotion is never a good idea, and if I’m the bad guy for saying so, I’ll be the bad guy.

Hey man, 

Appreciate the honesty, and no man, to be honest, I get notifications in my Gmail whenever someone replies, I had yours unopened to remind myself to reply, actually, I was going to reply to you.  Your crown isn't that bad to be honest given how thin your hair was before, so it's actually a huge improvement.  I use Hair fibres and derma-match as well, right now.

Im actually writing all these things down to ask in person at my next meeting with this person. So all this info is good.

Can you tell me about the medications you take, i just dont want to be on fin, so this is huge for me learning more about this.

Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. - That is what you take right?

Maybe I can ask to take that as well, surely it would slow down my lose, do those actually effect DHT? Anything to not have a crash like Fin or be in the running for a crash (for my mental state), is huge for me.

Also - what is Keto? Is that a diet?

11 hours ago, InTheSix said:

Hi bud.. I can imagine losing hair and not knowing what to do about it can be stressful. Trust me, been there.. I read all the comments here, and here is my honest 2 cents for you:

- take a break/pause.. hair loss is a marathon and I dont think you ever solve it, you simply find ways to manage it to your expectations

- think long term. What are your expectations 2 / 5/ 10+ years from now.. meaning are you adamant to have a full dense head of hair (that may be difficult to achieve for most), or are you ok to have some thinning with maybe a light crown or no crown coverage.. (each one of those will have a different action plan)

- you seem to be a diffuse thinner, so was I (I say "was", because I lost most of my hair, not because I found a cure.. sorry dont mean to scare you).. and I can tell you that as a diffuse thinner starting from age 26, while I didnt like the way my hair looked at present, I always yearned for the hair I saw in photos a year back.. in short, its all relative.. you may think your hair looks bad today, but 2 years from now, you may do anything to dial back just 2 years ..

- I think by now you get this.. but no one is saying you 'are' a NW5 or 6 but that you 'may' turn into one.. similarly, I read Dr Bisanga's evaluation as you not being a good candidate 'now'... but you may in the future.. frankly thats actually a good evaluation in my opinion, as you still have a lot of hair that you can lose due to shock loss.. when I was 28 yrs old, I went to a doctor, who said I was a great candidate for HT and recommended 3200 grafts.... thank god I didnt go ahead with his recommendation, as I am sure that was a bad decision in hindsight ( i feel you are in that situation today).. What I do regret from that time is that I didnt start any medication.. I do wish I had given finas a try then.. but alas..

- If it makes you feel any better, dr. Bisanga was also somewhat skeptical about my case, and even the doctor I eventually got my HT done recently(I am 39 now), initially said no to me... the point I am trying to make here is, dont feel down if you get an answer from a doctor that you dont like... its fine.. its completely normal to get different opinions from doctors, and the reasons can be varied (ethics, skills, preference, specialty, bad photos, etc) 2 years back I got a 'your not a candidate" from a very well respected doctor, and because I wasnt well researched, it really put me down.. the point here is... take your time, do your research and trust me, just like in the movie Matrix, you will start to see things very differently once you have a better handle of things. (just fyi.. i now take oral minox, and have ordered topical finas, and waiting for delivery)

- finally, the advice you get on this forum is pure GOLD, especially from some of the seasoned people here... you wont even get this much dedication from most clinics.. use it, consume it, learn from it, and hopefully you learn to manage this beast called hairloss

Hey man, 

Yeah, its just a lot of information at once and it's super demotivating.  On the two sides of the coin, I am being told to do something NOW, and on the other hand, because I do not want to take medication, I am being told to do nothing so I can then get a HT after loss has stablised.

I know this isn't a miracle cure, but I booked an appointment with a Dr. Eva Proudman in three weeks and paid GBP 130.00 to see her.

I just spoke to Eva Proudmans husband on the phone (who works for Eva), they work with closely the 'Maitland Clinic', said she is really sought after and so forth, been in the industry for 20 years. 

I was on the phone for 40 minutes, told him all my worries.  He said to come in, they can closely look at my scalp, try and find the cause of the loss under the microscope, he kept mentioning minoxidil, but said they have other alternatives.  I mentioned my fears of Fin, and he said there are other alternatives, then he said there are, and then I put two and two together, he meant Saw Palmetto, any thoughts on this? I'm sure I have read people reading they also got permanent Side Effects from Saw Palmetto too?  He said something about it not being in it's original form, I'm not sure, but it demotivated me quite a bit, I thought there was some new product/formula out with minimum side effects.  He didn't want to tell me the name as well to avoid researching it.  I feel like he may have said that so I buy it on the day without reading about it?

Are my options just that limited, like genuinely?

Also, did you end up getting a HT from Dr. Bisanga, are you not on Fin, and why are you going on it now, did it not scare you? Are there really not any alternatives?

4 hours ago, Curious25 said:

So no preventative medication then . . which is what the theme of this thread is orientated towards. 
 

I’m not having a go, or saying you are wrong for advising against surgery . .  I just found it an interesting observation of how adamantly against surgery you were for him, as you had lost more ground than OP at an almost identical age, yet have came out the dark side and find yourself in a good position today because of hair restoration. 

Agreed.  

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

That’s definitely better than nothing, but remember, it’s a real possibility you can get permanent shock loss. I had a lot less hair than you, so the risk wasn’t that much. It would be a better choice to get on medication first, see how you respond and then reassess in a year. 

Is that you in the picture?

Can you let me know bro please where you want, what you did, for real, you definitely had a lot less hair, i wouldn't mind losing it knowing I could then get to your place.

So how many transplants did you have, where did you go, like can you please take the time to write it out for me, like please.

I just want to know what you did so I can at least have some hope here.

6 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Get on medication, if you don’t want too, shave your head. Those are your options. Hair Transplants do not stop or cure hair loss. 

Melvin, youre not on finasteride either bro, so seeing your results gives me hope.  Can i not follow the same path that you are on?

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m on medication, just not finasteride. Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. 

Melvin I just watched your hair transplant journey video.  Surely I can wait for my hair to get as bad as yours, and do you what you did, you look a different person.  Like, what did you do, where did you go, what was your game plan, seeing your video gives me a bit of hope, please can you tell me honestly, knowing I dont want to take fin - please.

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m on medication, just not finasteride. Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. 

Hey Melvin, what is keto and azaleic acid, does this stop DHT?

Also, you got a transplant right?

5 hours ago, bald-and-bearded said:

How's your beard and body hair?

 

 

A paper on using body hair by Dr Umar: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27241361/

 

Who did the first transplant, literally?

6 hours ago, TorontoMan said:

The hard truth is you're far gone for 29 years old and if you're not willing to take medication, then you will just continue to lose everything. A hair transplant will be tough as you won't get great enough coverage and your donor is likely to minaturize in some parts in the future without meds as well. 

What I suggest is that you buzz your head down, you should have already done this. Take a look at how you feel about your look, many guys are shocked at how fine they are with this look, and if this is something you are fine with, then you win this right here and you could move on with your life. 

If not, the next step for me would be to consider SMP as an option too. More and more im seeing some incredible results from SMP, that is a functional solution for so many men. Ill attach some examples of SMP with hair transplant for coverage, but you could also find amazing results with SMP on its own. 

If that is not something you want to consider, but I think you should, then your only other option is to make a plan to slowly introduce medication to get over your fear. There are many guys on here alone and even more that I've talked to outside of this forum who have been on it successfully for many years. Dr. Hasson is rumoured to have been on fin for many years and conceived two daughters in that same time. If you could go on a course and try to get some regrowth, you could become a better candidate for surgery. However, I believe that without some course of action, you will set yourself up to pay a lot of money and be full of expectation for a what hair transplant could do for you and come out disappointed. 

Finasteride isnt the only option too, you have topical anti androgens as well like CB and Fluridil you could introduce first. However there is so much data supporting finasteride, it is the easiest starting point imo. I don't want to sell false hope to members on the forum, but there is a lot of stuff being trialed right now for hair loss that should be coming out in just a few years. If these things are shown to work, you may only need to use finasteride for a little while to maintain you until then. I would try a small dose of fin for the first 4 months, say 0.25 mg every other day, and slowly work your way up as you get more confident that its fine for you. This is what I did when I started and I'm glad I started slow. 

Hey man, SMP looks quite good, if I get it done, does that stop me from getting a Hair Transplant in the future? Looks good to be honest.

I don't know man, all this is a lot.  I might just go see Eva Proudman (Dr. Balls associate) and pay the 130.  This is greatly affecting me, badly.

How does a hair transplant with SMP work by the way?

I dont know man, Fin just scares me too much from what I have read. 

And most of all, what medication is being introduced, how do you know about this, when and where?

1 minute ago, Berba11 said:

What you do is buzz your hair off and make your peace with it. Simple as that. (You'll look better for it, by the way - as do 99% of balding blokes).

You're destined to develop side effects from finasteride. Not necessarily real, actual ones, but the placebo effect. You're coming off as exactly that type of person. If you're this worried and panicked and frantic about a drug that is absolutely un-problematic for most people and totally reversible for those less fortunate, then the very last thing you should be doing to your body is irreversible, mostly unrepairable SURGERY!

That's what you should do.

As for Dr Ball... If £130 gets you a thorough assessment of your hair in person, and he's able to tell you how many scalp and beard grafts you have available, and it's a good number, then you might be fortunate enough to have enough in the bank to cover you current hair loss and future hair loss. But you'll be committing to two or three surgeries, and there's no guarantee that each will work out perfectly. Dr Ball is a distinguished surgeon. I'd be happy to hand him £130 for an expert, in person analysis and assessment, and indeed I am considering getting such an assessment of my hair from him prior to any surgery I undertake.

Thanks man, appreciate the message.  I am contemplating this, to be honest, shaving and then rocking the beard, sucks, but oh well...
Also, the thing that annoys me, paying GBP 130.00 doesnt get you face to face with Dr. Ball, this is for his rugby clinic, where you meet with someone called Eva Proudman, who then goes through your hair.  So yes, this is why I am a bit annoyed by it, given their availability, and me having to book work off for a holiday for this and take a 2 hour train there and back.  

Is there anyway I can mentally re-train my mind or prep for topical fin, or is that just an absolutel no go for me.

3 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Honestly man, you’re not a candidate. Any surgeon that operates on you is just taking your money. 

I dont get it, so what, I cancel my appointment now with Dr. Ball and not pay the money.  I am so confused man, for real, what do I do, honestly. What should I do. I was told to get in contact with Dr. ball, here I am, and im told now if he takes me on, hes taking my money.

1 minute ago, aaron1234 said:

That is fine, you'll just continue to lose hair.  

The horror posts of Fin are just too much for me.  

Dr. Ball and his team are asking me to come GBP 130.000 to meet, and to pay today.  Is that worth it, seems like a lot of money?

11 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Without spoon feeding you - you have to take on board what has already been said, you need to research, and luckily for you, you have found this forum which is an excellent starting point. 

Look at doctors who have patient posted results with cases similar to your own - similar hair calibre and similar pattern of loss. 

Learn what can be achieved - and make a list of docs you like.

Contact each of the docs, as you did with BHR, explain your whole situation - and ideally go and visit them in person for a consultation and assessment. 

Depending on your donor's strength, family history, beard and chest hair as a source, and levels of miniaturisation will determine an estimate of how many grafts you have available. 

This number, combined with your hair calibre type, will allow yourself and the doctors to determine what can be achieved, if you were to become fully bald in the NW5 pattern you present. 

So for example - if you have 8000 total grafts available;

The measurement of the surface area of your NW5 pattern will be taken - the density that can be achieved will be presented to you, and examples of similar transplanted densities with your hair type will be shown to you, to give you an idea of what can be expected. 

Hey, 

I am taking on board everything, I Just made an appointment with Dr. Reddy Raghu, any feedback or information on him?

I am just not sure on the direction to go, I keep getting different things/ideas, take Fin, dont take fin, get HT, you dont have hair for HT, your donor hair is going, you have retrogade, its crazy. I am feeling depressed from this.

Like, the things people sent me about Fin scare me, I just replied to another post with the articles that were sent to me about it, and reading it, basically altering the DNA and damaging it, wtf.

Do you have any recommendations or patient case studies yourself you could recommend to me that you stand by, would appreciate it.

44 minutes ago, Homeerestre said:

Yeah, I know, but without trying it there can be no results. Again, it's on your discretion to use it. 

Thanks, I just booked a consultation/call back with Dr. Reddy, any feedback on why he is so recommended?

Also, the reason why I am terrified is the below.  

The amount of people who tell me, Fin is like playing russian roulette with your life, I cannot explain to you how often I have seen this, it's actually terrifying.  I even got added to a PFS group on Whatsapp and Reddit, and the articles and the information seems promising/legit as to what they sent me.

They sent me following to read:  

- https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-courts-secrecy-propecia/

- https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2A32XU

- "Additionally, the drug causes the body to go into a hyper-methylation state which causes alterations on gene expression of receptors and enzyme production. Otherwise known as DNA damage." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6652249/

-  5ar is responsible for more than just T to DHT conversion. It also converts progesterone into what's called Allopregnanolone and cortisone into what's called 5a-THDOC. Both are positive modulators to the GABA receptors, exactly like Xanax is. They also decrease neuroinflammation and antagonize NDMA receptors that decreases psychotic symptoms like schizophrenia and depression. Further, they just recently found that Finasteride blocks Norepinephrine's conversion to Epinephrine (Adrenaline) by binding to the PNMT protein unintentionally.

44 minutes ago, Homeerestre said:

How about trying it for a month or two to see if it's suited for you.

I would do that if the risks of no permanent side effects were present?

1 hour ago, Newyear newhair said:

It’s like not crossing the road in case you get ran over... you can’t live life worrying about what might happen.

You can only try it then reduce or stop if needed.

Yes, but its the 'damaged hormones', and not returning back to normal after, that scares me.  I would try it if everything returned to normal after guarenteed, but that doesn't seem the case, which is why its hard to justify it as regret can be there.

People personally reached out to me on reddit begging me not to take it.

It hit home, telling me there story.

On 8/3/2021 at 2:40 PM, JDEE0 said:

I understand that you're disappointed, but I think you're just slowly coming to the realisation/understanding that hair transplants aren't simple quick fixes or solutions to the issue of hair loss itself. Yes, they can bring back lost ground to a reasonable density depending on the extent of an individuals loss, but they don't treat hair loss itself. 

To be blunt, you're losing hair in a high Norwood pattern (5+) right now, and it's clearly evident objectively speaking. If you were to have a HT without being on preventative meds right now then you face two issues.

1) all of your existing hair may be shocked out and may never come back from the trauma of the surgery as it's in a weakened state due to your MPB.

2) Even if this doesn't happen, you go in and get 3000 grafts lets say and it all grows well, in 5 years I can't imagine the native hair you have left will be around any more (if you don't use meds) and you'll be back to square 1. Maybe you go back in and get another 2500 or so and have decent coverage back to front after that grows in, but maybe not and you need more grafts that aren't there. Additonally, what happens If your NW5 goes to NW6 or 7 and you have no grafts left? Maybe you can't even get enough to cover a NW5 as is right now, I don't know. 

Now, no one knows what's going to happen. Maybe you'll get to a NW5 and not really progress much further, or at least not for a long long time. This is a good possibility, don't get me wrong, but the reason Bisanga has declined you is because he doesn't know either.

There's a chance that, by performing surgery on you without meds, he may be placing you in a position where your level of loss will outpace your own donor supply. If this happens, you're left with 5000+ scars on the back of your head, so shaving isn't ideal, and at the same time a potentially strange looking head of hair if you leave it longer and wear it as is. 

It seems you're willing to try topical fin which is good. It works and should stabilise you. Maybe you could add in minoxidil and micro-needling at some point; I think you could potentially get good re-growth in your case. Either way, I would ideally use the meds until its clear I had stabilised/recovered a little bit and then go ahead with a HT, but only if I was committed to using meds indefinitely. Yours is a clear case of knowing exactly what would happen if you stop, so you'd need to commit. 

Just looked at the Freshmans place, never heard of it but it seems a legit telemedicine company. 44 quid a month for a bottle of topical fin/min is expensive though. 

0.05% would equate to 0.5mg of fin per ml, so the equivalent of half the daily dose orally as the recommended dose is 1mg per day. 

Yeah Man, 

I am, I see this, but im dissapointed by a few things.  I thought you can do this all without taking Fin, like genuniely.  I thought @Melvin- Moderatordoesn't take fin, but he seems to have been okay.  @Curious25 -- can you help me plan this out, find good hair places which I can discuss a plan with, the fact that I do not have a plan absolutely destroys me. 

I spoke to Harley Street Clinic in london, and they said I can go down the path of not taking anything, staying off forums, and come in and they can top me up, and do it again if needed, I was happy about that, until I realised maybe they arent the best?

Okay, so the two scenarios you gave me, I get, makes sense.  Does the donor area get weak too? Didn't know that, like i thought that would always be there to do a transplant for?

Im 29, I just want to do this the right way.  The thing that dissapoints me the most is Bisanga didn't even give me a solution, like, I just want a plan here, genuinely, not having a plan is killing me, and the anxiety of taking fin is also killing me.  So please, like genuinely, i beg you, can we help myself because im falling into a depression.  I swear to god, this is depressing me, its all I think about and talk about, Im not even working that much because I just want to focus on a plan here, please.

For freshman, they say to take 0.05% fin twice a day, so it would be the normal, but i wouldn't start with that, was thinking doing 0.50mg (one dose a day), maybe even every other day.

Please for the love of god can we please help me do this the right way.

 @Curious25 - like can you show me your plan, pics, how it goes, who you used, when you want, what points. Like surely I have options here, not just... Fin?

On 8/3/2021 at 2:57 PM, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Thanks for the tag @JohnAC71. I agree with what Dr. Bisanga stated. His response truly shows that he's an ethical surgeon. He could have taken your money and done the surgery and your hair loss would have progressed without medical therapy and you would not have been happy. You need to tackle hair loss from a multifaceted approach. Without finasteride/minoxidil, you're fighting with 1 hand tied behind your back. If you're not able to tolerate oral finasteride, then try topical finasteride or topical dutasteride. As always, feel free to reach out anytime. 

Doc, I am just too scared with trying Fin, the reports of mood changes, depression, and chemical changes seem crazy.  I previously had depression, sometimes I feel super down, am I not prone to this and anxiety (which I am sure I have) if I take fin?

Like whats your thoughts, honestly, is there no way for me to do this unless I take Fin and Min, is that what you are telling me.  Surely I have other choices, what if I dont want to take fin.

@Curious25

On 8/3/2021 at 5:27 PM, Curious25 said:

You're going to have to do a lot more research, stop panicking and trying to rush things through, learn what is capable with your situation, have a look at yourself in the mirror, and workout if you can accept being happy with what is capable to be achieved with your situation, and then you will be in a much stronger position to make a decision. 

You're young, but not so young. Your loss in a NW5 pattern is evident, however there are worse off people at your age. 

FWIW I think BHR have given you sound advice. 

However, I also think, there will be ethical surgeons who would be prepared to strengthen your frontal hairline conservatively, to give you a confidence boost and improve your appearance - as long as you are aware of the commitments down the line you have to make, the limitations that you will face, and they are happy that you are clued up enough to know that you will be happy with what is achievable. 

You need to research and learn about hair restoration a lot more. 

I, and many others don't take medication, however we understand the implications of this, and are prepared to face the consequences, albeit mitigating it as best as we can, with carefully planned surgeries, at top class clinics. 

You also need to go for in person consultations.

Good Luck  

Mate, im going to dm you.

I dont want to take fin, (why dont you by the way), i just ordered Topical Fin, but am already shitting myself.  

Can you help me plan this out with good surgeons who give me confidence and can help me plan this out, please?

On 8/3/2021 at 5:25 PM, bald-and-bearded said:

Do you have good beard and body hair? If so, I think if you approach Dr Umar he will say yes. But then I have no idea how ethical he is. He does have impressive videos and pictures but we can't say if they are just his best cases.

Yeah, I do. I dunno man, i dont know what to do, this fin thing is crazy to me, i dont know if i should mess around with my hormones and body.

Ah man, 

I ordered topical fin and min from Getfreshman, but im just too nervous.  I think im a lost cause.  Reading the Fin reports and affects, its just terrifying man.  Memory loss, ball aches, depression, insomnia, mood changes, like genuinely, I dont know if its worth it, for real.

31 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Thanks for the tag @JohnAC71. I agree with what Dr. Bisanga stated. His response truly shows that he's an ethical surgeon. He could have taken your money and done the surgery and your hair loss would have progressed without medical therapy and you would not have been happy. You need to tackle hair loss from a multifaceted approach. Without finasteride/minoxidil, you're fighting with 1 hand tied behind your back. If you're not able to tolerate oral finasteride, then try topical finasteride or topical dutasteride. As always, feel free to reach out anytime. 

Hi Doc, 

Thanks for the tip.  I have just bought a monthly subscription from Freshman (Topical Min and Fin). 0.05% fin, I believe to use twice a day.  What are your thoughts on this, and most of all, thoughts on Topical Fin and Min?

Could I get away with doing just 0.05% a day (one application)?

Any experience using Topical Fin/Min, nervous about it tbh, but it should be safe/fine right?