dust78

3 hours ago, JayLDD said:

Nonsense post by someone who doesn't understand how hair transplants work. The same you suggest here could be said of Rahal, Lorenzo, Hasson/Wong, Freitas and Feriduni, all of those are very high level surgeons that perform FUE, some of them at the very peak level.  None of them perform extractions or implantations, so by time spent performing the surgery they also do "less than half the work".  Yet no one makes this argument for these surgeons.

The product he sells is one that anyone who chooses him knows they are receiving. If you have a problem with that, especially considering its industry standard you are thinking with bias and not rationality. I prefer surgeons that do the entire procedure themselves and use stick and place particularly for smaller hairline cases, but this is not one of them. The expense of surgeons that perform FUE extractions and implantations is typically drastically higher than those that do not, and the speed and amount of grafts they can do in a session is significantly lower.

Do I think that people would likely get optimal going to a doctor like Konior that has full involvement? Yes I do, but he does significantly lower graft numbers in a session and is four times the price. You can look yourself on the International forum which has more cases than here, the vast majority of ASMED procedures are very positive at the moment and some of them outright spectacular. There are many surgeons performing FUE including extractions that get significantly worse results than ASMED and clinics like Hasson/Wong who also leave extractions and implantations to technicians.

Sorry did you make any surgery with koray? No. I made two surgeries with him and maybe i know a little better how things work there. I repeat continuing saying koray has excellent cases is useless. I would rather talk about my case. Did you read my report? What i am explianing? The fact that in the visit i refused to take out 4000 grafts, the fact that my idea was to only fill the crown? Did you see the picture of my situation in the pre surgery? What do you think about the fact that in the visit we close at 3000 grafts, and 1 minute after the visit  the assistent propose me to take 4000 with an ulterior discount that was adventogeaus to me but to them too. The fact that they didnt tell me anything about how much I would have lost  density if i took out other 4000 grafts? and even worse I would have had voids? the fact that I probably won't be able to keep my hair, I don't say at 1cm,  but not even at 3 cm. Don’t tell the patient nothing at all about the contraindications I could have in extract so much grafts and tell me that in a couple of months I would be back to normal is not fair. But how can you plan an operation so difficult with so much approximation? Then if we want to talk about the operation, let's talk about it. practically the operation was done by two young girls in their twenties. the doctor came only 10 minutes to make the incisions. Among other things, the first day I didn't even realize it was him because he didn't even greet me. Then I no longer saw him neither in the extraccion nor the grafts.

Of course koray has good cases as all the doctors have, my first surgery  itself was a good case. but in this one the doctor has been wrong in everything in how he handled the pre and the surgery itself. i went there and paid a lot of money to be treated by the doctor i dont say in all the surgery but at least that he come to supervise what the assistants were doing. Today my donor has areas with more hair then others so not only i lost  all the density but there is no homogeinity, and this probably because the extraccion were done bad, for this it is important the presence of the doctor to supervise. Who tells me how much experience had those two young assistants, realisticallly i dont know. And concluding , im convinced that the doctor made a risky decisions. He could have told me, now let's extract 2,000 for the crown, let's see how it evolves and then next year maybe we'll extract a little more. This would have been a wise decision. 

1. @JayLDD i think that puting pictures of another patient that has nothing to do with my case, just to show that he had a good result with koray, is for me useless. We know koray had good result and other not so good like all the doctors, so you dont need to put 6-7 pictures of a very good result in my report where we are talking about a possible overharvested donor. It would be much useful, as you say that a donor can recover after 8 months or more to show examples, as until now i have never seen one picture of a donor in a bad shape like mine return normal, that would be interesting to see.  In my consultation with expert doctors for eventualy do a repair for my donor they all told me 6 months is the limit to undestand the state of your donor, koray too told me to wait 6 months.

Sorry but i don't agree with you is looking better only because the hair are at 4cm and can cover more the emply areas, if i cut just 1 cm it would be much worst.

 And in 6 months a donor should return normal. But i will wait the 6 months and will see the result.

Hello to everybody im posting pictures at 4 months. 

19 hours ago, duchaine said:

@dust78 long story short, the first HT should be done with FUT technique. 
I'm going to have my first HT in January and opted for FUE. I know I did a mistake but didn't felt comfortable to travel from Italy to vancour for a FUT.

Well you are still in time to change idea. It depends also on how many grafts you need, if it's a little number fue is better, but if you need a lot and maybe in the future you think that you will have to intervene again i advice you to do a FUT!

52 minutes ago, Sean said:

Keep in mind, the scarring for debs case may be similar to dusts.   The difference is in the picture contrast and illusion.  That is there is more bright light making less contrast between the hair, the scars and the non-scarred tissue.  The only way to know is if deb takes photo in similar light as yours.  This is how folks may think donor scarring may be entirely different due to picture contrast, but it may be similar in actuality.

It can be but you can see also that this guy has much more hair then me after 5000 grafts and well distributed, so he has probably a donor with a very good capacity. Instead on me you can see that i dont have so much hair as him after 4000 grafts, and not so well distributed, there are spot with more hair and other with less. I think not only it was impossibile to extract 4000 but also the extraccion had to be done very carefully to don’t accentuate this lack of homogeinity!

3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

This was my donor after 4500 grafts in 2015 (Only the white marks obviously) with ASMED. I was also very shocked at how bad it looked when my hair was shaved. I think something must have changed in the extraction technique after 2015 because I don't see them leaving people as badly scarred as me and you. I was informed by my latest surgeon that I was very aggressively harvested. 

Much could depend on what team are assigned to you, their experience and ability. Who know's? This is the reality of a hair transplant factory. 

My feelings about this clinic and the way they operate are well known. Another day, another negative story relating to them posted here yet they seemingly remain invincible. The truth is, your donor will get better than how it is now but it is always going to have a depleted feel and thinner appearance. I have accepted that I have to grow mine much longer and shorter styles are out of the question. Had I of known this, I would have definitely had FUT.  

I really hope one day cloning become's a reality (though I massively doubt we will see this within our lifetimes) just so I can put hair's BACK into the donor.  

It can be that they change something since then but what is inexplicable and unacceptable is that they persisted in depleting my donor in that way. Either with long hair it  seem depleted and empty- Now i ask, is it right do something like this when i came to them only to fill more my crown? Wouldn't have been more logic to take out what we established in the beginning, and try to keep my donor safe? What was the reason to make such a risky choice if you see that my donor already looked in that way? 

On 11/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Fozzie said:

There is quite a difference in donor scarring in the two pictures. As Melvin mentioned, scarring can vary somewhat between different people but do you know what size punch was used in your first procedure in 2013? 

Considering Debs1982 had 5000 grafts in his first procedure, the state of his donor area is pretty impressive imo. 

On 11/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Fozzie said:

There is quite a difference in donor scarring in the two pictures. As Melvin mentioned, scarring can vary somewhat between different people but do you know what size punch was used in your first procedure in 2013? 

Considering Debs1982 had 5000 grafts in his first procedure, the state of his donor area is pretty impressive imo. 

 

the diameter was 0.7 and 0.8

10 minutes ago, Sean said:

Dust,  thank you for more Information especially regarding the pricing structure to clarify and validate your points on that end.  I agree with your concerns this far, lets hold out for another 2-3 months and re-evaluate the concerns at hand overall.  Then, It will pretty much will confirm if healing timelines were different for everyone or if something was wrong as expressed earlier, by you, the patient. 
 

For now, in the meantime, try to keep yourself healthy and keep your hopes up at least.  I am hoping it resolves for you somehow.  Eat healthy and do as much as you can to relax.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

for my part i try to be as clear as possible i don't have any interest in telling things that are not true.

Thanx for your words, i apreciate it!

3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

n my humble opinion, it’s still too early to be singing doom and gloom. @DEB1982 had around the same number of grafts by Dr. Erdogan as well. These numbers aren’t unheard of, especially with this clinic. But as I mentioned no two people are the same and how we heal differs from person to person. That said, keep us updated on your monthly progress.

I just saw this case. You can see first of all that his donor in the pre surgery is much better then mine, you can barely see the scars and all homogenous and well distributed and he extracted more then 5000 grafts, mine with 4000 grafts was in a worst shape, you can see more the scars and not so well distributed. How the hell is possible to take another 4000 grafts. The second surgery of this guy was only of 2500. And of course you can see that after one month surgery his donor is in good condition. Can't believe this. Now im more convinced that for me it was impossible to take more then 2000/2500 grafts

2 hours ago, Sean said:

Dust,  hang in there.  Keep really good documentation and get opinions across several forums.  Keep screenshots as well.  Id recommend reaching out to other known surgeons to see what they say with their professional opinion in like 2-3 months.  See if you can go for in person consults.  If you have a professional opinion, it may help you in long run in many ways.  
 

Is the doctor willing to work with you in case of issues?  These types of things are good to know.  best of luck
 

Hey sean, thanks, yes is what i will do. In january/february i will start to move around and see what i can do if the problem continue. . 

Of course if my aesthetical defect persist we will have to speak seriously about it with the clinic, no doubt about it, for me 6 months is the limit, and is what most of the doctor with who i contacted with told me, 5/6 months you a can  understand how your donor will be.

17 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

We’ve spoken to the clinic, and they have assured us that they do not offer any discounts for additional grafts. They have told us that they offer discounts to all of their returning patients, regardless of the number of grafts. 
 

In my humble opinion, it’s still too early to be singing doom and gloom. @DEB1982 had around the same number of grafts by Dr. Erdogan as well. These numbers aren’t unheard of, especially with this clinic. But as I mentioned no two people are the same and how we heal differs from person to person. That said, keep us updated on your monthly progress.

I think it’s very important that as patients, and as a community don’t jump to conclusions. I have seen a lot of patients come and throw dirt on their surgeons name, creat a bug fuss, and then several months later ask me to delete their posts. I hope you get a great result. I do believe the donor will improve, but I think you’ll always be able to see a difference in density, even me with 5k grafts, I can see the difference in density.

hi Melvin first of all thanks  for your reply and for contacting the clinic, it's a nice detail from you. I would like to answer first of all to what they told you about the discount and I want to be very precise in order to avoid any doubt or ambiguity. It is true for patients who repeat the operation with Koray there is a 15% discount on the price of 2.5 per grafts. But:

In the visit with the doctor we had agreed 3000 grafts that with 15% the price would have been 6375 euro. As I explained in the report once the visit ended the consultant told me that the doctor would like  to make me a proposal that consisted in making me pay 4000 grafts as  if it were 3000 at the price of 2,5 per grafts but without the 15% discount, that would have been 7500 euro instead of 8500 euro (with a discount of 15%). That was the discount im talking about. Otherwise why on earth would I have accepted to go from 3000 grafts to 4000? i decided to go for the 4000 because  of the doctor's insistent reassurance and for the discount. So we passed from 2000/2500 from the mail, to 3000 in the visit to 4000 after the visit.

This is the truth that the clinic cannot deny also because I want to remember that I signed a contract where there is a clause that says that the clinic records the audio of the visits with the doctor, so they cannot deny that at the end of the visit the agreement was 3000 grafts. That's all. Im sorry if i had to give reveal prices like this, but i can't accept that the clinic want to put in doubt what im saying.

 Regarding the fact that some patients worry too much at the beginning but after when things start to go well they change opinion, it is true, and it happened to me in the first operation, the first month I was worried about my donor, but after 4 months everything was back and I was so happy that I decided to open a report in an Italian forum to show the good result, then, after a few months I decided to remove it because I had shown the result and I wanted to keep my privacy.

Now I can't compare the situation  then iwith my situation now, like day and night, today after almost  4 months I am very  worried and demoralized by my situation, i wish my donor was in the conditions in which it was in the first month of the first operation, I would sign for it.
Having said that, it is clear that I will wait a couple more months, but im entering  soon in the 4th month and my hair are almost at 4 cm and we are nowhere close to see the light.
 

The clinic in my opinion has an upward trend in the extractions. And im not saying that only for my case.  To all the patients that were there with me , in those days, the doctor proposed them more grafts then what was established previously, that’s what they told me, some accepted others not. There is a guy in particular with whom im in contact with who had a previous transplant of 4000 grafts with a  very good result, and he wanted only to fill the crown( same as me), well the doctor wanted to extract him 4500 grafts, and he accepted and today he has the same problem as mine.

in my case  there is a good possibility that the doctor didn’t understand the capacity of my donor and made a wrong evaluation of it  plus the two young assistant i think didn’t make a very good job, because not only my donor area seem depleted all over , but also i have parts were there are even less hair then others, almost empty so there wasn’t homogeneity in the extraction.

what i came to know after the surgery, that i didn’t know before, is that dr. Koray has invented a theory called coverage value, that is like a formula that prevent from overharvesting and also he is developing a robot called ke bot  that actually was tested on me when i was there, i didn’t know it was the ke bot, they just used it on me without telling me exactly what it was for.Well I have to say that  if my situation will not improve in the future his theory didn’t work so well on me!

 In my humble opinion what is most important in a doctor is a realistic and ethical vision that prevent any possibility of problem for the patient, good hands, and a lot of professionality that of course koray has. But we are not cars that can be fixed so easily if a problem occur, so i don’t see the point in pushing the limit so much to have a good result, ok it can go well  most of the time but  it can happen that something go wrong. I still hope that koray didn’t make a wrong decision, but as time go  by  im more demoralized about my aspect.

For me going to koray had to be a guarantee, there are a lot of clinic in istambul even much cheaper, but didn’t want to risk, pay less and have a bad result in the regrowth was not my plan. But now the problem seems much bigger then a bad regrowth, here there is the possibility that my donor is depleted forever.

57 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Can see your concerns, especially in the 3 month post procedure pictures. Fingers crossed there is just some shock loss involved and there is some improvement in the coming months. Personally, if someone has had a fairly large 4000-5000 grafts FUE as their first procedure, think one needs to tread fairly carefully in any subsequent procedures and smaller procedures are better imo. 

Regardless, looking at your pre-op pictures, totally understandable why you only wanted the crown worked on and that's it. Certainly do not like the sound of the clinic almost cajoling you into an extra 2000 grafts. That is poor form imo and very disappointing to read. If you were happy with the frontal area and only the crown was discussed in the online consultation, it should have been left at that......simple. End of the day, it's about meeting the patients expectation.

 

 

Absolutely agree, the doctor knew exaclty what i wanted and saw my perplexity when he proposed me 4000. And finally we decided for 3000 that were already a lot, but maybe now i wouldnt be in this condition. Then all this story about the discount that was  offered to me after the visit, and the insistence that it would have been better and i would not have any problem, made me agree to accept it. But the discount meant that anyway i would had have to pay more then the 3000 that were granted!

Yes and  i apreciate it,thank you very much! I already checked all the solutions  but i will make a decision next year, to do a repair i have to wait.

I know i can do a smp i can do a donor exchange. The point is not what i can do but how is my aspect after almost 4 months. Why? After have spent so much money why  do i have to be in this condition? And either with long hair now im at almost 4cm , the voids are evident.

Thanx!!

all this is taking me a lot of energy stress and dark moment. That's all i have to say. I ll try to stay strong and focus on what i have to do, but is very difficult!

this is how i was before the second surgery, wasn't enough 2000/2500? and today we would be all happy?

Well now you are going to laugh, they want to sue me because i made a blog where i just testify exactly what i put in this report, with pictures and an exact descripcion of what has happened. Can you imagine? Not only they there is a possibility that my donor is damaged but i can't even express myself and tell the truth!! unebelievable!

That was my donor before the second surgery

3 months

2 months

1 month 

Hello everyone,

I would like to explain my transplant with the Asmed clinic and some details on the operation:

I got operated with Dr. Koray in 2013 and 4000 grafts were extracted. My operation was satisfactory then, apart from the design of the hairline not very natural to me, but otherwise there was a good regrowth.
In August 2019 I decided to go back to Koray for a little touch-up in the crown, which in my opinion was still empty. After sending some pictures to the clinic, we decided by email for 2000 max 2500 grafts.
When the doctor saw me in person he immediately decided that he wanted to put 4000 grafts and not 2000 as we had established. I honestly remained a little puzzled by this choice, it seemed to me too much for my donor. At last during the vist we found an agreement of 3000 grafts. Immediately after the visit was over with the Doctor, Alessio the italian consultant privately told me that Koray wanted to propose me a discount if i agreed to extract 4000 grafts. But still i wasn’t sure about it because anyway i would had to pay more then what was established and i repeat i was worried about a heavy post-surgery and for my donor. The doctor came to me after this new proposal and told me to not worry that it would have been perfect!

At last the discount offered to me and the insistent reassurances of the doctor that my donor could handle another 4000 grafts without any problem were very convincing, they also told me that in short time I would be all right. In my head there could be no margins of errors if the Doctor was so convinced to insist on this amount!
So I decided to trust the doctor and go for 4000 grafts.

We arrive at the day of the operation, which took place in two days, the first day I was taken 2000 grafts for the front and the second day another 2000 for the crown. Extractions and grafts were performed by two young assistants with the help of other auxiliaries. After the extractions I took a half hour break and then they took me to the surgery room to make the incisions and then the grafts. Once placed on the couch they gave me a dose of intravenous anesthesia and I do not remember if even with a syringe directly on the head. Then they put me some kind of blinkers on my forehead, I honestly don’t know what it was for, then, someone who, I suppose was the doctor, came in to make the incisions. I can’t tell precisely because he didn’t speak to me and I couldn’t see because of the blinders, but since the incisions should be made esclusevely by doctor, I guess it was him. Talking with others patients they told me they had the same treatment. The incisions lasted more or less 10-15 minutes if I remember correctly. I have to say that apart the incisions that i want to trust that he did it, i never saw Koray once during all the the two days surgery, neither to say, hello, only once the surgery was over and we were in the room where they cut and wash hair he came to compliment with me and with the two young assistant, stop.

Already after two weeks after the surgery when the hairs had grown back a little, I realized that something was not right, my donor was really empty behind, too much! I began to worry seriously, I sent photos to the clinic, which told me to don’t worry and that in 2/3 months everything would be back and would be homogenized.

But the more weeks went by and the more the worry increased due to the very evident gaps and in addition I noticed that in some areas more grafts had been extracted than others (you can see it in the pictures), so to my opinion they did not maintain a proper homogeneity in the extraction.

Arrived at 4 months i realized that my donor was doomed, in my opinion overharvesting was done in all the donor area. The clinic repeats me to wait 7/8 or more months, when at the beginning of this story in 2 or 3 months everything had to return to normal.

And now I don’t know how it will end, i really have the impression that a wrong value of my donor was done and that the doctor extracted too much hair. If it were like this then it would be an unforgivable mistake.
This is my experience with the clinic Asmed until now, i let you make your own opinion, for me absolutely negative for how my donor is reduced after more then 3 months.