MachoVato

Yeah, finasteride won't help the hair that's already gone. But I think what PizzaWolf is concerned about is the future of your native hair. For example, if your family has a history of going all the way bald, your donor area isn't very "safe", and therefore likely to fall out. Finasteride is part of the plan to keep those new grafts viable.

Quick 2 week update. Scabs are gone. No shedding... yet. 

Yeah, wearing your hair styled like that looks a million times better, IMO.

It's only going to get better!

Joe is almost as annoying as that kid Zach. Ugh.

I don't think there are many doctors that would intentionally deplete a donor area. Not without first looking at beard/chest for grafts.

I know nothing about this guy but he claims to be able to maximize harvesting by using a modified, vacuum-assisted tool. Check it out...

That donor management is perfect! Dr. F. made it easy for you to get a second procedure if you choose to do so.

I had similar hair loss to you, although I went more aggressive with the hairline (4200 grafts). Following this thread. I can't wait to see how it comes out!

I'll add this to my HT thread. But if you're curious, here's the camera I used.

Jiusion 40 to 1000x Magnification Endoscope, 8 LED USB 2.0 Digital Microscope, Mini Camera with OTG Adapter and Metal Stand, Compatible with Mac Window 7 8 10 Android Linux

Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B06WD843ZM/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_HYOSFbGDS87R3

1 minute ago, giegnosiganoe said:

One last thing - when you write multiple, it means 3 or 4 hair grafts? But you assumed 3 hair graft. So your average was probably higher? I guess HLC just doesn't differentiate between 3+ hairs when grouping?

That's exactly right. HLC only counts "multiples" which is 3 hairs and up. So yeah, it's certainly higher than 2.27 hairs per graft.

5 minutes ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Thanks for the context. One other thing, do you have any more pics of your donor pre-op? It's hard to tell what it looked like from these pics. Any idea how many grafts you have left?

Here's a couple pics of my donor. The doctor said I had A+ donor and that I had 9000 - 9500 grafts available. So we used up half in this procedure.

I thought it would be cool to see my grafts under magnification. And I'm properly grossed out. Ugh. Not sure of the magnification, the microscope goes up to 1000X but the software doesn't give me details.

Here are two of my recipient area. You can see some scabs still in tact (today is Day 8 of my procedure). 

And here are a few of my donor area. I'm pretty impressed with the healing at this point. It's still sore to the touch, but clearly it's healing very quickly.

17 hours ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Can you share a bit about your hair loss history? Is this your first hair transplant? Are you on any medication and if so for how long and how effective has it been?

First hair transplant. Started losing hair maybe 15-20 years ago. I've been taking finasteride and minoxidil for about 8 years now. It's slowed it down but didn't stop it. 

17 hours ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Can you expand on this some more? Why did you decide to increase to 4200?

Also it looks like the front was bald, so 50 grafts/cm2 makes sense, but the area behind it that was planned for 40 grafts/cm2 seems like it already had at least somewhere around 20 grafts/cm2 of existing hair? Does that mean they transplanted around your existing grafts, and that area would now have at least ~60 grafts/cm2 of hair? I would like to understand that better.

All I cared about was the location of the hairline and density in mid area. I was pleased that the doctor drew my hairline as low as where my native hair was. I expected him to draw it higher, which may be why the online estimate was lower. Once we drew the hairline, we looked at the extent of my thinning in the mid area. We agreed not to worry about the crown at this point, but let's get good coverage everywhere else. 

He said he could get 40/cm2 in the mid section. I asked why not 30. The idea here is that my native hair may continue to thin out, so the plan was to future-proof it. Yes, it should be around 60/cm2 this time next year. But over time the density is expected to drop.

I didn't care about the graph count or the extra cost. If he said we could do the crown for an extra 1000, I would have done it. I mean, I'm already getting the surgery, let's do it! 🤣

3 minutes ago, familia said:

HLC estimated more grafts than others, that is holding me back from them..

It's hard to be accurate from photos. Here's how they determined my graft needs. After drawing the hairline, they shaved my head. Then they drew the rest of the needed areas.

The math is simple... Area x Density. In my case (34 x 50 grafts/cm2) + (64 x 40 grafts/cm2) = 4,260 total grafts.

Just now, JohnAC71 said:

Bisanga is my own my top 3. Yes definitely worth considering. I’m sure you might have seen but so many results on here. 

I really like the research that @Portugal25 created in this thread. 

As a reminder, Keser and Pekiner both were former HLC doctors. 

I always like Keser's hairlines. His experience shows. Even though he does not use microscopes to separate singles/doubles/multiples, he seems to do fine without it. Even with the cases where I could see some doubles, the results were still pretty amazing. Also note, that Keser doesn't like to do more than 500-700 grafts per day. You would be a 4-day procedure. 

It was there a couple days ago. I told Mr. Dogan that they need to update their photos because they look different in person. He said they are creating a new website. So they are working on their online presence. Maybe that has something to do with it?

Ok, this looks like a double, a triple, and a double... in the hairline, right next to each other?!!

In mid-October, I reached out to HLC about available dates. They said they had an opening in 2.5 weeks! I knew the pandemic was getting tricky, but I verified that travel US to Turkey was quite easy, no quarantining at all. So I locked in the dates and booked my flight to Ankara.

The clinic is nice, multiple floors as I believe other cosmetic procedures are offered in the building. They sat me in the chair in front of a wall-sized mirror. Dr. Ozgur is leading the hairline design, but all the doctors participate. There were 6 people behind me very engaged in the hair design, very collaborative. We agreed to lower the hairline to where some native hairs still are (I usually shave them down), you can see in the pics. We didn't want to go too aggressive with closing the temples, but we settled on something youthful but still age appropriate. I'm 49. This took a good 15-20 minutes and the line was drawn/redrawn many times. I've heard stories of hairlines being drawn and done within minutes.

I then had my hair shaved and they sat me back in the chair. Now they drew my donor area and the line between the hairline area and mid/front-section. Based on this they take some measurements. Originally I was quoted 2,500 - 3,000 grafts. But the numbers don't lie and I ended up with 4,260. You can see below the two zones. The front would be dense packed to 50 grafts/cm2. The front/mid-scalp area would be 40/cm2, which is denser than most people get back there, normally people get 30/cm2. This was much a much bigger procedure than I had planned for, but after talking to the doctors I'm happy I did it this way.

This was a 2-day affair. Here's a breakdown of the extractions:

HLC is one of the clinic where only doctors work on your hair. They have technicians assist, of course, but the incisions are all doctors. If you don't know how HLC does it, they collaborate on the work. During the chair sit down, they determine the 2 doctors that will work on you. One in the morning session and the other for the afternoon. For me, I had 4 doctors touch my head over the 2 days (1 doc was only there for about an hour, so he barely counts). One of the doctors from the first day was reassigned to another patient because that involved beard hair, his specialty.

It is a business so I was moved through the process without any wasted time. Day starts at 8am. Left day one around 7:30pm, day 2 around 6:30pm. Day one is longer because of the sit down and hairline design. Basically, it goes like this...
breakfast > surgery > 15 minute break > surgery > lunch > surgery > 15 minute break > surgery > wrap up head and go 

Overall my experience was quite positive. I have full confidence in the doctors and support team. I took advantage of the free apartment for 3 nights, which is a little cool because other patients are there and it was nice talking to them about their journey. There were 4 of us in the apartment, which is directly across the street from the clinic. I stayed an extra 6 days to heal. Didn't do a lot of sightseeing, but I did eat dinner at Salt Bae's restaurant! (way over priced and not worth it, but it was neat)

Cost is 2.5 Euro/graft, which came to about $12k USD. Flight and hotel for extra days not included.

I'll update monthly.

At 25 days there should be no risk to your grafs. My doc said they are typically sealed up by day 7. Wear your hat!!

2 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

What’s the head surgeon of HLC called?

I was just looking this up. His name is Dr. Özgür Öztan. 

Apparently he's also the president of FUE Europe?
https://www.fue-europe.org/

6 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’ve heard excellent things about HLC, just wish I knew a little more about the doctors. 

Totally valid. I guess I took a leap of faith based on results. I also liked that they had 5 or 6 doctors on staff (there were 4 patients there at the time). 

I owe them an email to get my photos they took. I'll ask if they are willing to provide more details. Maybe they would be a good for your next video "Melvin Interview Series"?  

56 minutes ago, Andrei said:

I had the procedure also at hlc ankara almost 1 week and half ago. I had 3200 grafts in 2 days. At me worked dr Elif and dr Umut. Dr Umut extracted also grafts  from beard. Now will see in 6-7 how the result will be.

Best of luck!

I'll attach one photo from my phone that came out clear, after day 1. This is the work of Dr. Akin and Elif. I'm pretty happy with the density at this time. 

I'm not sure about the hoodie. I actually bought a hat that I can wear really loose, but I'm on day 4 of my procedure and I'm not willing to wear it yet. That's just me.

My clinic required a 1000 Eur deposit, which I wired before I flew out to Turkey. They accept USD so I brought the balance in cash. On day of surgery, we agreed on more grafts so I paid that balance with my credit card (paid in Lira). So make sure you have a credit card without foreign transaction fees.

Travel pillow is a must. I bought a fancy memory foam one and it helps, but I can't sleep very well with it. I use it in bed, laying down on top of a few pillows (I'm still in Ankara in a hotel). It fits better sitting up in a chair.  Sleeping is going to suck until day 11 when I can sleep normally.

4 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Wow 4 different doctors, I’ve never seen a clinic operate that way, what’s the experience of each doctor?

I don't know their resumes, per se. I did ask Dr. Elif why they use multiple doctors and she said that they work very collaboratively, they learn from each other and it helps prevent fatigue. No weak links. Of the four, Dr. Akin and Dr. Elif were my favorites. They made me feel the most relaxed.

Just speculating, but I think it also has to do with schedules. The clinic is open Monday - Saturday. So a doctor may start one day but not be in the office the next. 

It's unorthodox, no doubt. But I selected them because of reviews and their videos. I saw at least 5 doctors (Dr. Ozgur didn't work on me), although 6 are listed on their website. It was a little hard to tell because everyone was wearing masks.

All those clinics could do 2,000 grafts for under 5500 Eur. And all could correct and improve your hairline. I think your issue is travel and time. Portugal and Cyprus are closed, I believe. Turkey is open to medical tourism. The question is if any of those clinics can get you in soon enough.

Most people do not shed 100% of their transplanted hair. Chances are those longer hairs are the survivors. Everyone is different.

You are deep in the dormant stage. Your new hairs are growing but they are below the surface. Remember that hair grows about 1cm/month. So you can expect to see young, thin sprouts between months 2 & 3.  By month 4 most people start getting excited by improved density and thickness. You look completely on track.

I don't know much about the redness, it's all over the board. It seems to vary from lasting a couple weeks to several months. Maybe add some aloe vera gel into your routine?