mav23100gunther

His fut was never 4 dollars. It cost me 4.35 in 2013, and around 4.45 in

2016

A few years ago it was $5 Canadian a graft for the first 2,500 grafts, and then $3 a graft for all grafts in excess of 2,500.

Was disappointed to see the Feller/Bloxham thread was locked from what seems to be

over a few over -sensitive souls were offended by it .

How are new posters supposed to learn about the differences between FUT/FUE if the valuable information on the thread is suppressed ?,OK things got a bit heated between Dr Feller and Mavgunther but mav said he wouldn't comment on any of Dr Fellers threads in the future but as he pointed out the thread wasn't started by Dr Feller, but leaving that aside

in my opinion the thread should be left open .

People may not like what Dr Feller has to say or how he says it , and we must keep in mind he's not the only Doc with the same opinion, but at least he's prepared to put his head above the parapet and lets be honest love or hate him it's always interesting .

Mick, I wouldn't worry too much about it, I have a hunch this FUT/FUE debate will continue in future threads. I'm personally tired of it as it's just the same thing being recycled over and over by the same doctor, so looking forward to moving onwards from it for now. Agree that until different surgeons can jump into the debate, it's not adding anything new. Perhaps we can just send these new patients a link to the original "FUT is more popular than FUE" thread. Stealing the words of the said doctor:

"No need for the same doctor to be promoting FUT versus FUE over and over and over again for years. No matter how you cut it, that behavior is agenda driven....."

Agreed, you have to pay a premium in NYC, whilst some of the best surgeons are close, and cheaper too. I would suggest consulting with Dr Ron Shapiro in Minnesota, Dr Konior in Chicago, Dr Rahal in Ottawa (Canada I know), and Dr Hasson in Vancouver. If you have your heart set on FUE, then I would look into Europe with the likes of Feriduni, Lorenzo, and Erdogan. I also live in NYC and ended up traveling for my 2nd procedure.

Dr Feller, respectfully, I have not done what you continue to accuse me of doing. You have yet to prove that all I do is stalk your threads and promote my own clinic in all of my 1,000 odd posts. Last time I looked this is an open forum, and one in which personal opinions are welcome. I have never stated anywhere that you are a bad surgeon, nor do I think that. I personally believe folks should not limit themselves to just New York when selecting a surgeon. I did consult with Dr Wesley in NY, and although I was very impressed with him, it doesn't change my opinion that folks should expand their search to other cities. In the very first post you attached below, notice how I said "You lost me AFTER Feller" instead of "You lost me AT Feller". Quite frankly, I have always found the manner in which you address members of this forum deplorable. Once you even referred to us as "mentally challenged" and "peanuts in the peanut gallery". Now you are accusing me of harassment and stalking? Those are strong words. I really hope you don't talk to your own patients that way when they are unhappy or dissatisfied in any way. It is for this very reason that I personally would never select you as my surgeon, not because I think you are not a very skilled surgeon. You are, and your videos and posts for the most part have been extremely informative to me, hence why I comment on them and commented extensively on your FUT vs FUE thread. In this particular thread, which is not even yours by the way, It rubbed me the wrong way that you refused to accept those perfectly reasonable conditions to interview and record that interview with the said FUE doctors. Hence my rant. If it offended you, then so be it, but I just feel you needed to be called out on it. There is no reason why you would need a 3rd party involved to do that interview. Quite frankly, I can't see the said FUE surgeons ever agreeing to record that type of discussion, and I think you know it. Moving forward, I will respect your ask (more like a threat) and will gracefully not address you personally again, nor will I comment on any thread initiated by you, but it is well within my right to provide my own opinion, within the terms of conditions of this site, and I will continue to do that on any threads not initiated by you that I so desire, including this one as it is not a thread initiated by you. Do not for a second think that the fact you have a PHD gives you the right to bully me around. Your latest rounds of accusations, threats and insults directed to me are completely unacceptable, and I will not tolerate them from anybody, Esteemed Doctor or not. None of my posts that you presented above are harassment, stalkerish, trolling or defamatory, so I will appreciate a retraction and apology.

Mav,

 

I think it has become ridiculously obvious that the only reason you come onto this site is to attack me or to promote your own doctor. So I am disappointed that the moderators would allow that agenda driven behavior to continue.

 

I do not attack doctors like you do. I criticize procedures by offering facts. You are a layman and don't understand the facts. But the FUE practitioners do. So it is up to them to come onto this forum, which they all read, and refute the facts I have offered. To date only one has ever tried and I wiped the floor up with him by posting his OWN video of him performing FUE extractions.

.

Dr Feller, with all due respect, this statement by you is complete and utter nonsense. If you actually read my posts, you will see that I use this site to ask questions, used it as a research tool for my own procedure, documented my second procedure in detail, and try to help others where I can by chiming in or answering questions. Do I inadvertently promote my own Dr in the process, yes I do, but why wouldn't I seeing that I had such success with him, success that I backed up in real time with my own thread and pictures. I acknowledge that my rant above comes off as an attack on you, but I have also supported you and Dr Bloxham previously, including in your infamous FUT vs FUE thread, as well as when Professer made his allegations against you last year. You accused me of using this site only to attack you and promote my own doctor. Seeing that you only present facts, then please can you provide evidence that all my 1,000 + posts do exactly that and nothing else? If not, then I would appreciate a retraction and an apology.

Sample of some of my past posts below:

You left out Dr Wesley. I think Feller is probably the best in NY, but Wesley is worth a look. My advice to you, don't limit yourself to New York. I am a New Yorker, and travelled to Ottawa for my own 2nd procedure. I thought that the best surgeons for me were not in NY.

Wazaam, I must admit that I find it shocking that you took this particular quote from Dr Bhatti, and then passed it off in a differnt context as Dr Fellers. Have to agree with the Dr on this, and I know thats what journalists do all the time, but it was shocking none-the-less. His original quote on learning disabilities was fair game, but not this one. Sorry bud

Honestly, although I appriciate this input, I feel Dr Bhatti has danced around the claims made by Dr Feller, and hasn't really refuted much of anything, specifically disproving the theory that besides the linier scar, FUT is a better procedure than FUE. Still awaiting Dr Bhatti's view on lifetime donar supply, yield, and cherry picking of grafts of FUE as compared to FUT. He also hasn't explicitly stated that he has successfully overcome the three forces. No disrespect to the doctor, but in my opinion he is dancing around the topic rather than addressing it head-on. Sort of like our dear politicians do.

Dear Dr Bhatti,

 

With all due respect sir, I must admit I am dissapointed by your post above. Although sincer, you still have not disputed any of the statements made by Dr Feller on his view of FUT being a better procedure than FUE. You mentioned previously that you disagree with some of his statements, please can you ellaborate on why you feel that way, i.e. 1) can the three forces of FUE mentioned by Dr Feller be overcome 2) Does FUT really provide a greater number of lifetime donor grafts compared with FUE 3) Is the transection rate on FUE higher than that of FUT 4) Does FUE damage the donor region more than FUT 5) Is cherry picking for FUE really a myth as you still can't really identify singles from doubles?

 

Honestly, the fact that neither yourself nor any other FUE surgeon is coming out and disputing the facts laid out by Dr Feller is just adding credibility to what he has stated, and for someone like myself, I really have no option but to trust what he states. So far, the only pro to selecting FUE over FUT is the lack of that linier scar, is that really the only one?

 

Please please please can you make good on your promise and engage in an intellectual debate. Looking forward to hearing your views.

The good Dr. makes a good point here. A hell of a lot of members hiding behind keyboards are actively shooting down the facts laid out by Dr. Feller and trying to convey that he is wrong and they are right. It's more than possible that these guys are specialists and know what they are talking about, but I highly doubt they are close to as qualified and experienced than Dr. Feller. If they want to come out and challenge the good Dr, then to his point, lay out who they are and what qualifications they have. I'm also not saying they are wrong about their beliefs regarding FUE, but the facts as they stand is that NOT 1 single FUE specialist surgeon or verified FUE subject matter specialist has come out and challenged Dr Feller or laid out an adequate rationale as to why Dr. Feller is wrong. I admit that I have no idea about what is right and what is wrong, but what I do know is that based on the information provided by Dr. Feller, and information obtained from the 7 or so surgeons I consulted with, I have absolutely no reason not to believe the facts and opinion laid out by Dr. Feller in his and other threads. In fact, only one surgeon, Dr. Maras recommended that FUE would be better for me than FUT, and his reason was that he believed he could get a better result because he is able to cherry pick the singles, pairs, and threes via FUE. To be honest, so far the only valid counter-argument I have heard favoring FUE over FUT is the linier scar.

Update:

 

Unfortunately, my conditions were not accepted by Dr. Feller. I still believe, even under these conditions, this debate would have been beneficial for many forum users.

 

Dr. Feller, nevertheless I respect your passion. Maybe we get another chance like this again under different boundary conditions or with other people involved. Like the ideas I have shared in my PM.

What condition wasn't accepted? The first one about not publicizing your name on the net? Why exactly is it so important for Dr Feller to have to do this? I think Dr Feller is and was always bluffing. If he was so eager to interview and record the interview with the likes of Feriduni, Lorenzo, Bisanga and Erdogan about FUT vs FUE, then why does he need a 3rd party involved, and that 3rd party to be publicized? This just seems like another publicity stunt to me and I am dissapointed that the moderators are allowing this nonsense to continue.

Dr Fe

Gas,

Would you be interested in doing a three way phone call with any or all of these doctors you have been quoting? Let's recording it and then post the recording right here on this forum for everyone to listen to. I would love to hear what these doctors have to say regarding the comparison between FUT and FUE.

 

Send me your real name and phone number and we'll do a three way call and record it. Are you in ?

 

Dr. Feller

I highly doubt any of these doctors would consent to being recorded. Why does this have to be a three way call, and why does Gas need to send you his real name. Why can't you call all three yourself and make a recording of the conversation?

Looking good Ernie, this is going to be a knock-out, must be very exciting for you! Enjoy the growth

Yeah Cooley, Feller, True and Dorian are all good and in that vicinity.

You lost me after Feller!

Both very good but very different approaches. I have consulted with both. Dr Bernstein is very conservative. The hairline he proposed was just too high for my liking and on the conservative side for my age and my available donor supply. He also would not touch the temple points. I personally could afford something more aggressive which I got through other surgeons.. You also don't see many posted client results from this clinic. Not saying it's a red flag, but just something to consider. Finally, he quoted me something like $9 a graft for FUT. nothing wrong with that, but other elite surgeons charge $6 on average. I personally think his price is too high considering I could get an equal result with other top surgeons for less. Don't let price skew your decision though. If you would like to go with a conservative approach with less grafts and more passes, then I would advise looking into Dr Ron Shapiro or Dr Konior. Maybe even give Gabel or Cooley a look. They are elite surgeons who can also go with more conservative approaches than Hasson. They also have a lot of patient posted results on this forum. Hope it helps.

Btw- if I could start over, I would do a mega session with Hasson for my first procedure.

and do apologize .... Forgive me ....

That's a first!

Like I said, what you say makes complete and utter sense, and I completely agree with you. The reality though is that some of the top FUE surgeons don't practice in the US (besides Konior and Shapiro of course), and these same surgeons such as Lorenzo and Erdogan delegate the cutting. I'm still struggling to conceptialize the fact that this is the norm. All the top guys such as Rahal, Erdogan, Hasson, Wong and Lorenzo do it this way, yet we know they are all highly esteemed surgeons, so looks like there is a disconnect to what they believe and therefore practice versus what you believe to be highly inappropriate. I would personally like to see it somehow become a big no no for a surgeon to delegate the cutting, maybe a requirement that the surgeon has to do all the cutting to gain admission to the coalition and be recommended by this very site. I also think a lot of folks would agree with me on that. At present, if one determines that Dr X is the best FUE surgeon for him, then chances are that he probably delegates the extractions. Like I said previously, if I needed FUE, I'm going to most likely stick with my surgeon Dr Rahal, but I'd have to and probably would have to risk accept the fact that he delegates . It would be nice if this wasn't a factor at all.

Thanks for taking a stand on this particular matter Dr Feller, I think it's about time this practice of delegation during FUE gets called out. Please keep it up.

It's not a "big statement" it is what it is. I take exception to anyone who delegates surgery to unlicensed unqualified personnel. It doesn't matter who they are. You as the public should as well.

Thanks for your honesty. BTW - I actually agree 100% with your statement, even though Dr Rahal is my surgeon and he hit a home run for me using FUT. I would have no issues letting him perform FUE on me either though, probably because he earned my trust, even though he would be delegating the extractions.

It is not lost on me though that you chose your words very carefully in that last reply. I'm wondering why you are now limiting to unlicensed and unqualified. What about delegating the extractions (cutting) to a licensed and qualified technician/nurse? Just for the record of course.

"I do take issue with non-doctors performing the scoring (cutting) part of any surgical procedure. In the United States it is illegal and considered an inappropriate delegation of surgical responsibility. Even an RN and a PA-very highly trained, licensed, and competent medical professionals- cannot perform the scoring (cutting) around the graft as they may not act as the Primary surgeon. They may Assist in the scoring, but it must be the attending surgeon who actually has his hands on the cutting tool. If the primary surgeon leaves the room, then the RN or PA becomes the primary surgeon and that is simply illegal. "

Dr Feller, even though all three are Canadian surgeons, are you thereby also inferring that you take exception to Dr Hasson, Dr Rahal, and Dr Wong who all delegate portions/all of the scoring to a non-doctor during FUE? They also do leave the room during this process, and from reports, don't have their hands on the cutting tool at all times. That's a big statement to make regarding three incredibly respected surgeons no?

Not really. I didn't even know he posted here. I just wanted to see successful examples of FUE with a lot of grafts transplanted

Yeah you did

Wow! I didn't expect this. I would appreciate some of the examples of the bad results of Feriduni etc. because these people are on my short list.

What did you expect when you used keywords Feller, FUE, FUT and debate in your opening post? C'mon man, you asked for this.

I am not disputing what Feller is saying at all, but his complete and utter disdain for "the peanut gallery" is unbelievable - I'd actually forgotten about this side to him.

Guy's let's stick to the thread, the OP originally wanted members who've had a large amount of grafts done via FUE to share their experiences, me and mick both shared our experience, it was in no way to dissuade or convince the OP that one procedure is better than the other. Both procedures produce good results and have left patients very satisfied, we should refrain from name calling and attacking other members.

Yeah, but he also used Feller and Bloxham in the title. I think he was looking to initiate or re-ignite that infamous FUT is more popular than FUE thread. Looks like he succeeded .

Hi, I've been wanting to do this for awhile (hair restoration), but I have been worried for a few reasons. 1.) Getting a crappy job done and 2.) realistic downtime.

 

I have excellent donor hair which is why I have been seeking out to this as opposed to buzzing my hair. I live in the NYC area and there seems to be a lot of shysters out there.

 

I think I am starting to get a handled on who is real and who is not, but I am still worried. I think I dodged a bullet by cancelling a surgery that sounded too good to be true.

 

I know a lot of people asking for recommendations for good doctors, but I am going to do a little twist... are there doctors out there in the NYC area one should AVOID AT ALL COST!

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks

As a New Yorker myself, and having made the mistake of having my 1st procedure with a NY practitioner, the best advice is to not limit yourself to NY surgeons. The best of the best HT surgeons are not in NYC, so be prepared to travel. Plus the NY surgeons charge way too much money for a procedure - it's just not worth paying such a premium just for the convenience of being able to take a cab home after the procedure.

Rahal is in Canada... Who are you? The flash?

Ottawa is about an hour and a bit flight time from New York. Are you one of those who thinks that one has to cross an ocean to reach Canada?

Interesting that Dr Feller mentions that it is required on HRN that surgeons post one case a month. I'm pretty sure that there are recommended surgeons that don't do this.

Hi!

 

I have been watching Youtube videos produced by Doctors Feller and Bloxham this evening. I found them very informative and I also appreciate Dr Bloxham's comments on this site. However, I was quite taken back when I heard how against FUE they are. I was all set for FUE and now I am starting to have, at least some, reservations.

 

I do not want to start an FUT vs FUE debate but I would like to know if anybody has had a successful (series of) hair transplant(s) with just FUE i.e. several thousand grafts (5,000+, maybe) or how common this type of patient/case is?

 

Thanks

Oh dear - not again - wwhhhyyyyyy!!!!!!

Please don't twist my words. I never disrespected the community, in fact I have nothing but respect towards them. old members remember.

Apologies Bill, hope you don't mind if I chime in here.

Paleo, I have to agree with Stig that you have actually been incredibly disrespectful to this community by refusing to post pictures and even provide an update of your final result. All we ever saw from you were a few pics early on, plus you did initially come on here for support in your initial dark days (go back to your very 1st posts) - which was given to you. I do agree that your refusal to provide and show an update is mightily suspicious. Please can you provide an update in a seperate thread.

Moving back to the original topic of this thread - wanted to wish Dr Bloxham a hearty congratulations on his recommendation.

Likewise for me. Rahal nailed a home run with me just a year ago.

Dr. Bloxham ( it's so weird calling you that since I've been calling Blake for years but you've certainly worked hard and deserve the title for sure),

 

So just to clarify, you have had just about three years of hair transplant experience which includes your residency but you've had nearly 2 years of full-time experience performing hair transplantation solo on patients working with Dr. Feller, is that correct? I believe that's how I remember it as well… Sometimes the timeline is fuzzy to me but when I look back on all my notes and your posts, I recall you were leaving to go full-time almost 2 years ago while you were in a residency performing her transplant surgery for a year before that. So I just wanted to confirm that I understand this correctly.

 

I know there have been a couple people who have expressed some concern about the fact that Dr. Bloxham is a bit newer to the profession. While none of our standards for recommendation indicate that a surgeon has to have a certain amount of time under his belt, I can understand why there would at least be a discussion about this. That said, here's my opinion.

 

In my opinion, three years is enough time to develop a solid surgical and technical skills and build a portfolio of before and after results. It is also enough time for any concerns patients who feel they may have gotten a bad result to come forward and express those concerns.

 

Remember also that Dr. Bloxham has been trained by a coalition member and his procedure, technique and results emulate his. Furthermore, Dr. Bloxham is being considered for recommendation, not Coalition membership at this time. There is a distinction between the two. That said, with ongoing excellence I do expect in another couple years that he will be eligible for Coalition membership.

 

Anyone else who wants to discuss this topic is welcome and encouraged to.

 

Bill

Bill,

I have been around on this forum for 2 years and quite frankly I never paid any attention to the potential differences between coalition membership and being recommended until reading your post. I was unaware that there was a difference in standards between the two, and are you stating that the standards to attain coalition membership are higher than being recommended, or is there something else at play? If the former, then doesn't that then undermine the recommendations themselves?

Hi Everyone,

 

Again, thank you for the kind words. It's truly touching to read.

 

Mav,

 

Just to clarify: all of the cases I presented are my solo cases. There have been many others where I worked with Dr. Feller in some joint capacity (hence why the time involved in surgery before partner and solo practitioner), but I purposely avoided sharing those because I wanted to present work that was completely my own.

 

Furthermore, I know that I'm younger than some (though it no longer feels that way!) and I've been in the "public eye" in this field for quite some time. It's interesting because I think I'm one of the only doctors I know who wanted to do HTs while still a pre-med! Because of this, I came into the field at a much earlier time in my career than most. Therefore, I probably appear younger than doctors who did something else and then got into transplants at a later date.

 

However, I have been performing surgical transplantation solo on patients for nearly 2 years now; I was also very fortunate to undergo a fellowship with a Coalition member, start at a very busy surgical office, and work with excellent, excellent technician staff. And within these past two years I was able to collect data on a number of wonderful patients and present it for review. I know it's tempting to say "he's young" or "he was the moderator" etc, but all I ask is an objective and unbiased review of these cases I have presented. The community has very high standards for potential recommendation, and I simply ask that the cases will be reviewed and evaluated on their own merit.

 

Hope this makes sense!

Thank you for clarifying Dr Bloxham. I was not aware that you were performing solo procedures for the last 2 years, and I think it's right to carve out the solo from the joint procedures, and only judge the solo ones to support your recommendation. To me, age is irrelevant, hell Doogie Howser was a successful doctor in his teens , but I think experience and demonstrating consistent results over a period of time is just as important as the quality of the results. I am not nearly qualified enough to form an opinion as to whether 2 years is enough time or not, but it looks like the support for your recommendation here is unanimous so far, so hearty hearty congratulations if you get it, and as a New York resident myself, I would totally make the trip to Great Neck for a consultation in the future when I decide it's time for another procedure.