Swooping

This is a very challenging case in my opinion! Good luck and hope you will have a great outcome. Who was your doctor?

What am I missing here? I was 100 % correct. Can you please point out specifically where you "got me" ?

 

Thank you

Really?

"Yield is the same between strip and FUE".

In opinion, the only thing that Dr. Feller has done is show the online community that he is not confident in his FUE ability. Of course FUE yield would be bad in the hands of Dr. Feller, he has openly admitted that he sucks at it.

 

So basically we have someone who knows that he is bad at FUE telling the rest of us (many who have had successful FUE) that the procedure is flawed. When in reality it's Dr. Feller's FUE technique that is flawed.

 

Dr. Feller can't do FUE by his own admission.

Spot on. There is no shame in that though. Let's be honest not many practitioners can perform FUE to the highest level.

Yeah that's check mate for Feller. He knows he can't put up a argument against that. That's why he is so quiet. It became in his own interest to discredit FUE.

Mahhong makes some good points and I concur. Until proper studies are conducted this debate is useless.

However the individual that posted here mentioned that the ISHRS is performing a multi center study regarding the survival of FUT vs FUE. He said that all preliminary data suggest that the survival rates are equal. We don't have the details yet obviously. I guess we will have to wait.

Let me tell you one thing though if that proves to be true FUT will get another crushing blow. It won't take long before FUT will be dying, it already is actually. I am quite certain that this will happen in the near future already. Time will tell us.

Who actually wants the scar though?

True story .

You are right to give it a fight. Even if you can enjoy the HT for a few years why not? Just be prepared to shave it down if things go downhill in the future.

There is nobody who can answer this question really without proper scientific studies. A doctor recently posted here that the ISHRS does a multi center study regarding the graft survival of FUT vs FUE and said that all preliminary data suggests that both have a equal survival rate. I guess this study will be released in the near future, for now we don't have more details.

My opinion is however that if you want to avoid the scar, you should go for FUE.

Feller while searching for your independent FUE patient results something surprised me of your opinion in the past;

Factually you seem to state in more postings back then that you believe FUE has the same yield as FUT. That is assuming a viable graft can get extracted. However every graft will endure the forces you speak about right?

Why did your opinion change 180 degrees?

Guys,

 

I have removed Swooping's repost of Dr. Harris' comments. I agree it was a very compelling argument but he chose to remove the post and I have received no information indicating that he has since changed his mind.

 

Let's be respectful of Dr. Harris' wishes.

Fair enough David. You are the moderator so you make the decisions. I got to respect that.

However in the light of this topic it's extremely valuable information for the consumers who are coming to this site. I'm all for consumers so that's why I decided to post the message. After all the message came into my e-mail.

I'll just say then that the message basically opposed Feller pretty much in every aspect. Most importantly the yield question.

Yes Bill you make a very good point. Why isn't anyone using this? Well probably because it has proven to be not so successful in the past. I'll compare it to something like LLLT. If the studies from LLLT would really reflect to a realistic scenario everyone would be sitting with a laser helmet on his head daily on this forum.

I have read a study 2 weeks ago which could be related to the mechanism of a treatment like this actually.

Hair growth promoting effects of different alternating-current parameter settings are mediated by the activation of Wnt/

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Electrical stimulation is being used in variable skin therapeutic conditions. There have been clinical studies demonstrating the positive effect of electrical stimuli on hair regrowth. However, the underlying exact mechanism and optimal parameter settings are not clarified yet.

OBJECTIVE:

To investigate the effects of different parameter settings of electrical stimuli on hair growth by examining changes in human dermal papilla cells (hDPCs) in vitro and by observing molecular changes in animal tissue.

METHODS:

In vitro, cultured hDPCs were electrically stimulated with different parameter settings at alternating-current (AC). Cell proliferation was measured by MTT assay. The Ki67 expression was measured by immunofluorescence. Hair growth-related gene expressions were measured by RT-PCR. In animal model, different parameter settings of AC were applied to the shaved dorsal skin of rabbit for 8 weeks. Expression of hair-related genes in the skin of rabbit was examined by RT-PCR.

RESULTS:

At low voltage power (3.5V) and low frequency (1MHz or 2MHz) with AC, in vitro proliferation of hDPCs was successfully induced. A significant increase in Wnt/β-catenin, Ki67, p-ERK and p-AKT expression was observed under the afore-mentioned settings. In animal model, hair regrowth was observed in the entire stimulated areas under individual conditions. Expression of hair-related genes in the skin significantly increased on 6th week of treatment.

CONCLUSION:

There are optimal conditions for electric stimulated hair growth and they might be different in the cells, animal, and human tissue. Electric stimuli induces mechanisms like, activation of Wnt/β-catenin and MAPK pathway in hair follicles. This article is protected by copyright.

This would lead me to believe purely on a hypothetical basis that it will shift telogen/anagen ratio for the better. However I don't believe it will regrow hair or maintain (prevent damage).

Content deleted by moderator

I wouldn't undergo surgery if I were you. To munch chance of transection and permanent shockloss with your current native density. I can point to many cases lately that turn sub-par because of this. If you want I can link you some. That is based on your pictures though. Honestly your head of hair seems pretty damn good? Only mild diffuse thinning? Maybe I need glasses lol.

If you go anyway go for FUE? You state several times that you want to wear your hair short. FUT will leave you always a linear scar, and if you are a bit unlucky it will stretch making it even worse.

FUE does indeed leave scarring too but the micro dots are far less visible.

Good luck, research thoroughly

Funnily enough Dr. Feller tried the same exact context of discussion on HLH. This was in 2008. Obviously he was also attacking other people who didn't agree with him, calling them shills etc. However the admin stopped him immediately from doing that there.

In fact Dr. Feller likes to do this as the following discussion held in 2008 also. I'll just copy some of the discussion between Dr. Feller and Dr. **** ;

(If you want to read more google is your best friend)

Dr. Feller

Did you see how the doctor stabbed the skin and twisted vigorously? THAT is problem number one with FUE. That twisting may functionally transect the graft even if the graft LOOKS intact afterward. The more the graft is twisted back and forth, the more damage is done. I believe this is the number one reason for poorer FUE yields compared to strip where no such force is encountered.

 

The second area is where the graft is pulled out of the skin with forcepts. In this particular patient the grafts came out without much difficulty and that DOES happen in a number of lucky patients. But MOST patients are not that lucky.

 

In most patients the amount of traction is much higher than in this video. You will not see an edited video demonstrating this. The problem is that in some patients, if the doctor cuts too low with the punch it will cut the graft. So to insure that happens he cuts a bit more shallow. When that happens, however, it's harder to remove the graft from the skin because there is still too much lower skin anchoring it. To overcome this problem the doctor has to pull HARDER with the forcepts and SQUEEZE harder to keep a grip.

 

Those are the three forces that I believe have limited FUE with comparison to strip:

1. Torsion

2. Traction

3. Compression.

 

This is a UNIVERSAL fact of all FUE to date. Notice that NO FUE doctor has come on here to SPECIFICALLY refute this truth. They know that if they did, they would not be offering "informed consent" and would therefore be breaking the law and opening themselves up to lawsuits.

 

Forget about the rest of the noise, those 3 forces are all that count.

Dr. ******

Feller wants to see everyones tool, in person or on videotape.

 

He has relentlessly posted aggressive challanges to everyone performing FUE, and attacked me in particular.

 

So why is he so obsessed with seeing everyones tools ?.

 

All the other doctors seem to be getting on with it and not giving a damn over someone elses instruments. Its just Feller.

 

Question is why.

 

Here is my opinion.

 

Feller regards himself as an inventor. Since early 2003 he has patented various contraptions and designs regarding follicular extraction.

 

Every conceivable possibility he has tried to patent, including PERFORATIONS, SERRATIONS, VACUUM CHAMBERS , RELIEVED TIPS etc etc. He has tried to cover everything with a patent

 

Evidently, he still performs strip, so his gadgets aren't working so well.

 

But he must be certain that whatever instrument any doctor anywhere in the world is using , they MUST BE USING AT LEAST ONE OF HIS PATENTED COMPONENTS.

 

That means the doctor is in breach of a patent . All Feller needs to do is have a peek and then the legalities begin, ensuring he gets a cheque in the mail every time an FUE is performed.

 

Its what I think is the reason for his ongoing almost frantic posts over instrument disclosure, challenges etc

Dr. Feller

I only get interested in particular competitors when they make questionable claims or intimations. You claim loudly that your technique is better than the FUE technique of any competitor. That may or may not be true. I simply challenge your claim. If you are going to go public with such a pronouncement, then I can certainly challenge it on a public forum. Which I have done, and continue to do. To date you have only attacked me instead of supporting your claim.

 

I wonder, for all your “patient’s rights” rhetoric, do you provide complete “Informed Consent”? Specifically, the fact that FUE grafts must undergo 3 traumatic forces that strip grafts never endure:

1. Torsion

2. Traction

3. Compression

(and a few other minor ones).

 

For those of you out there who have wondered why FUE has not yet put an end to STRIP, it is because of these 3 detrimental forces. In the best of hands these forces are minimized, that’s what my patents are all about, but even so, yields are STILL lower than with strip surgery and is why I believe that if large procedures are needed, they should be done with strip, not FUE. ( The exception, of course, being patients like Franklin who would rather never have a strip surgery again. That’s a different matter).

 

Personally, I couldn’t care less what techniques Dr. ***** uses. I doubt they are revolutionary or even interesting. But if he is going to claim superiority in this field, he is going to have start by at least telling his patients before surgery the true differences between strip surgery and FUE surgery. Specifically, the limitations of FUE surgery.

 

Well, Dr. *****. How about it? Do you inform your patients of these three destructive FUE forces prior to surgery? 1. Torsion 2. Traction 3. Compression ?

 

You see, HT doctors do not make patients sign “waivers” as Dr. ****** loves to claim in his never ending effort to vilify other HT doctors. What he clearly doesn’t understand is that patients CAN’T “waive” their rights. That’s what makes them “rights”. And what he calls “rights” aren’t actually “rights”.

 

What HT doctors actually give patients is an INFORMED CONSENT document that TELL them what possible problems they might face should they decide to go ahead with a procedure. It also INFORMS them, specifically, of the downside of any procedure and that ALTERNATIVE treatments were discussed (in some states). The three detrimental forces of FUE and their resulting lower yields for FUE procedures must be included to have offered full informed consent.

 

Dr. *****

There are a few things Feller cannot own, control or patent.

 

He cannot own , control or patent the years of hard work and experimentation another doctor has done.

 

He cannot own, control and patent the care and commitment another doctor has given his patients

 

He cannot own control or patent the microsurgical skills another doctor has acquired.

 

But it is my guess, if he could find a way , he would.

 

In my opinion, that is what this guy is all about.

 

I think Feller has scribbled everything he could imagine and turned it into a patent, and like a spider , he waits for someone to "infringe"

 

As we all know , in every business venture, there are those who will out smart, or just plain screw hard working dedicated people who just didn’t see the threat coming.

 

But not in this town....boy

I

To all doctors performing FUE, with total commitment and hard work. I wish you all great success and great results

____________________________________________________________________

Funnily enough I loved Dr. A. P. (well respected IAHRS member) his response to Feller and he is spot on;

Not all fue is the same.

There will be doctors who -

1. Do not have the correct techniques,

2. Do not have the correct instrumentation,

3. Do not have the requisite training,

3. Do not have the requisite experience,

4. Do not have the requisite commitment,

to perform fue.

 

They will blame fue - not their own inadequacies - for the lack of results in their hands. Yesterday, I met a patient who had, ?fue technique performed on him. I was horrified at what was inflicted in name of fue.

 

Do not lay too much importance on utterances of doctors like Feller etc.

If in any doubt, go for a smaller test session or meet former patients.

 

I'm surprised you even offer FUE to be honest Dr. Feller? Why Dr. Feller?

Dear Dr. Feller,

 

This is an interesting "olive branch" that is being extended. An olive branch with conditions attached is not olive branch, sir. It is a prickly thicket that serves your interests alone. You'll understand my hesitation.

 

If you are referring to the "baseless" rant, comment there is no proof that you have presented. It is simply your opinion. You are assuming that the challenges you have experienced and have not ovecome in your FUE procedure are equally insurmountable by every other physician in the world. To apologize for this is to endorse your position, which I do not. In fact, the very idea of an apology for this, of all things, is humorous due to the sheer volume of insults and bulldog attacks you have made on not just me, which is of no real consequence, but my patients (Sethicles) and the respective readers and participants of this forum that dared to disagree with you.

 

And I also see no need to admit any mistake with my video. You have zeroed in on my original post which is over sixty pages back, in the middle of this thread as it stands now, while you posted the original video in subsequent posts, five times no less which negated your "cover up" claims. The mistake was yours, sir; yours because you did not pay attention to your own posts that have the original unedited video but for some reason you felt you should reach back sixty pages to attempt to shame me and call it a "cover up". Had you not attempted to wrongfully embarrass me with your accustations of subterfuge no one else would have given it much thought because you have been free to post the original, as you have, multiple times, just as you are still free to do so now. Do your five (so far) listings of the original video not negate any clandestine operations you accuse me of?

 

The apology I will give is to the readers and members. I feel that this thread is unfortunate and I do apologize for any misunderstandings or if I came across as rude. The true agenda of this thread is to tear down the merits of FUE and all that exercise it daily, a procedure that has already been through trial by fire during the early days of the online forum world where epic FUT vs. FUE battles have been waged. FUE has emerged, hardened from the experience, and validated by more and more clinics not only adopting the technique but converting to it 100%. Currently there is not a single reputable hold out doctor, that I am aware of, that is FUT only.

 

The agenda of this thread does not stop with the teardown of FUE. This thread is designed to discredit FUE while another, initiated by Dr. Feller's new partner, is designed to introduce mFUE as the perfect patent pending solution to the problems presented in this thread by FUE. It would be too obvious to have both arguments in the same thread but if two separate individuals initiate the strategy from different angles then it is more easily digested. Call it the "good cop/bad cop" routine, again patent pending.

 

To summarize what we have all learned:

 

1. No proof has been presented to show that the three physical forces described by Dr. Feller are insurmountable. None. There are no videos showing these forces, there are no photos showing these forces much less direct results of such forces directly tied into poor yield from any specific patient.

 

2. A "new" patent pending procedure has been introduced in the same time frame by Dr. Feller's partner that combines the "yield of FUT and the scarring of FUE" but Dr. Bloxham shares that FUE scarring is what people want while Dr. Feller says that FUE scarring is horrendous. I'm not clear on the difference but this is what is being stated but regardless of how you look at it, mFUE is here to save the day.

 

3. Dr. Feller did not make a single post, not one, between Janaury 2014 and June 2015. His account, "Dr. Alan Feller", had zero activity on this forum. When mFUE was announced by his partner, Dr. Feller's posting frequency rocketed through the stratosphere to discredit FUE. Why now? Why has Dr. Feller been completely and absolutely silent for a full year and a half before the announcement of mFUE, the proclamation of FUT being more popular than FUE, the mFUEvs.Stripvs.FUE thread, and the announcement of Dr. Blake now being a partner of Dr. Feller?

 

4. Dr. Feller attempted to create drama by saying that my editing of a video I posted sixty plus pages back, with the permission of Bill Seemiller, was a "cover up" like this forum had never seen before. This was said while five copies of the original, which I could have altered on Youtube at any time, rest untouched and unedited in his own posts. Did he overlook or choose to ignore? We'll never know.

 

I will close in saying that I agree the tone of this thread should return to a more healthy debate but I believe it is clear that if a more amicable level of participiation can be achieved it will most likely devolve again once another disagreement erupts. I will personally do what I can to refrain from such problematic posting and I will simply stick to the facts as I have continued to endeavor. However, as a question to the readership; How many clinics can you name in the past year that have switched to FUE, either partly or in whole? Now how many clinics can you name that have switched to or incorporated FUT into their practice, partly or in whole? The answer is what it is, the truth.

 

Good day.

Words of wisdom, thank you again Dr. Bhatti.

Well, i just need to say to every person here that have doubts on doing HT. DONT. DONT listen to the skeptic ones. its amazing. after my long time dealing with my hair loss, after wearing stupid hairpiece. Finally after 10 years i feel confident again. I feel me. thank u HDC.

 

 

GO AND DO IT !!! don't waste time. it worth the money, YOLO

 

Thank for the people on this forum.

Great to hear mate! Congrats :cool:!

It's a sub-par result imo. Especially for the area covered and the amount of grafts.

Thanks for posting such detailed high quality pictures by the way, we don't see these often.

First of all considering your hair loss progression at such an age it's advisable you go on medication to stabilize your hair loss. But I bet you already knew that .

If you don't go on medication a hair transplant can obviously be done too but you should be willing to undergo more possible hair transplants in the future.

Considering your approach I would definitely opt for FUE. It will allow for homogenization of your scalp and if things go wrong you can always shave your head without having a linear scar on the back of your head.

Swooping you have big kuhunas! Feller has a reputation of threatening legal action against people who rub him up the wrong way!

I am not surprised of that, fits his character perfectly! He has showcased his persona perfectly well in this topic and his standpoints. Everyone should be aware of that and as such I won't be stopped .

We've already dealt with this ISHRS statistical nonsense. Even THEY don't stand by it. Here's the disclaimer that came with the report (again):

 

Prepared by Relevant Research, Inc. Chicago, IL, USA

Notice: This Practice Census is published by the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS) and is a compilation of information provided solely by participating physicians. The information published in this survey was developed from actual historical information and does not include any projected information. Neither Relevant Research, Inc. nor ISHRS has verified the accuracy, completeness or suitability of any information provided here, and ISHRS does not recommend, encourage, or endorse any particular use of the information reported in this survey. ISHRS makes no warranty, guarantee or representation whatsoever and assumes no liability or responsibility in connection with the use or misuse of this survey.

 

And as for the mFUE marketing conspiracy I would post my response but Bigfoot stole it.

Dr. Feller, somebody posted yesterday in another forum "Looking for good Hair Transplant docs in NY NJ area". He was looking for somebody for FUE. Somebody mentioned you. As I'm quite active on all forums and most people know me by my name I kindly advised everyone not go with you because you are a sub-par FUE surgeon with some huge character flaws.

It made me quite happy as I shielded someone from you. I sincerely believe nobody should have surgery with you, not even for FUT now and most definitely never ever for FUE. After all you won't even perform FUE on your own head! I'll keep continue to do this across every forum aside from this one, but what would you care? I mean the online environment doesn't matter right?

In this topic you have shown many things. After accusing someone of being a paid shill which was totally wrong you even threatened someone with a lawsuit? What gives you the right to do these things to members here? Then you start calling a recommended doctor a "noobie" when he doesn't share your opinion? Jup an opinion, because you don't have more than that.

Oh and trust me Feller, this topic won't help you to regain FUT popularity. FUE is already more popular and will take over. Everything is indicative of this. You seem to be the only one thinking otherwise.

You have shot yourself in the foot with this topic and your actions.

Holy cow guys. It's even more clear than ever how FUE is crushing in and literally overtaking FUT like a goddamn beast. I'll give FUT less than 5 years before becoming a small niche, and eventually it will die out almost completely. That is my opinion. But the statistics say all. Be your own judge and look at the following graph;

Source: ISHRS: Hair Transplantation More Popular Than Ever | Bernstein Medical

Procedure

While Follicular Unit Transplant (FUT) procedures accounted for over half of all hair transplants, Follicular Unit Extraction (FUE) is gaining rapidly, with a 51% increase over the 2012 results (from 32.2% in 2012 to 48.5% in 2014). See the chart:

Look especially at the last years how FUE took off and how much troubles it had in the beginning. The biggest increase was between 2012 and 2014 and FUE gained 16.3% territory.

But yeah this data coupled with the indicative online movement of all big (inter)national forums don't say anything I guess right guys ?

HTsoon,

 

You just nailed it. If FUT is performed more often, then doesn't that then default the procedure to "most popular"? I would say most patients would prefer to get an FUE procedure due to lack of a scar, but elect to go with FUT for a variety of reasons, some of which you mentioned above. In fact, the moving more grafts in one sitting is a pretty darn important factor. I would think the majority of patients would prefer to get the procedure in as few passes as possible, hence the popularity of the mega-session. I would have rather had mine all done the 1st pass, rather than two procedures 1 year apart. My stupidity for not going with the likes of H&W. In fact getting the procedure done in less passes would be the preferred choice.

 

So back to your statement, who is more popular, the girl who everyone would prefer to bang because she is hot but don't, or the girl who all the guys actually choose to bang because she is the better lay?

The only data we have and you neglect it, hilarious. If you have troubles interpreting statistical data/graphs I can explain it a detailed manner?

Can't wait till the next one. My guess will be that FUE will approach 65-70% . That will be end of next year basically. Two years later than the statistics of 2014. Just see the growth in these years, amazing isn't it?

Dr Feller, you fighting an losing battle. These guys will aways see themselves better and more knowledgeable than hair restoration surgeons. In my eyes they are making an mockery with their comments; they have no knowledge of the medical aspects and the training it requires. And somehow they are the so called experts!

 

Matt's result is one of the greatest patient posted results out there. I wish I had hair like that!

Argumentum ab auctoritate.

matt to the FUT rescue again

Forget about matt. He got hurt and angry when I said that FUT was brutal. Probably the only emotional guy out here. Just confirmation bias.

Dr. Feller, is just a arrogant "know it all" kind of guy. Hell, he is probably average at FUE in these days. He definitely isn't considered as a elite guy in FUE. Makes things more funny. I have tried searching for his FUE results but didn't find anything pretty much above 2000 grafts. And the cases that I did found were minor hairline touch ups that were easy to perform as they lean on a excellent native hair density.

There are furthermore almost no independent patient results for FUE from Dr. Feller. Basically he has not much to show for FUE?

Dr. Feller his quote in 2007;

With current technology, FUE is labor instensive and tedious. In my own practice I have noticed that I begin to burn out by the 800th FUE graft.

Dr. Feller just doesn't like FUE. A quick search into his post history on another site confirms this. I believe there is a economical catch to this too, but that aside. I'll give you a hint; time = money.

The difference is that he knows that FUT is getting beaten heavily by FUE. So he knows he is in a bad situation. His practice is probably not as busy as it used to be. So I see this topic as a hopeless desperate shout. A shout that will do him harm only though. But he fails to see that. Which guy will ever go for a FUE procedure now with Dr. Feller? Only the dumb will.

Oh and btw you may speak all you want Dr. Feller but these kinds of theoretical aspects you speak about mean nothing when you don't even have a steady hand to perform a FUE procedure. As far as I know excellent hand coordination, stamina and superb hand motor skills are of utmost importance to perform FUE. Also it does take much practice to get good at FUE. I don't think you have ever had the practice to even develop these to a high level or you just can't. So its perfectly logical that your own observations are confirming that FUE is sub-par to FUT, but hey that is your opinion sir. It's not the truth, period.

If you have proper studies however, then please do show them.

I think less of dr. feller now after this thread. I think more of Dr. Bhatti now. If I wasn't locked into another surgeon I would fly to him for fue than stay in my hometown for a procedure with dr. feller. its just my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Just cancel it? I would've cancelled it 100% if I were you ESPECIALLY if you are going in for FUE with Feller. Going in for 1200 grafts for FUT isn't really smart though so I assume you are going for FUE. This all is my opinion.

WOW ! 110,000 VIEWS!! This Dr. Rahal is obviously twice as popular than other Drs!

I see what you did there lol.