BUSA

fair enough Joe. but when you say ONE procedure cannot address the crown that depends on wat ur referring to.

some think ONE trip to a HT doctor can't achieve the desired result. that wud be true if its ONE day. but one trip cud be 1-4 days and that is certainly enough time to address the front, mid and crown with enough ample donor as well as many other factors which is wat most do these days.

Erdogan for example use to split his cases up 8-12 months apart but then realized that wasn't necessary and was seeing no benefit to doing that so his patients either stay one day for maybe 2500 grafts and multiple days for those that have larger areas to cover.

u didn't state whether or not IF he has adequate donor. u simply stated it can't be done if the HT surgeon is aggressive with the hairline. that simply is not accurate.

5000 grafts won't make an NW5 patients hair look full if he has to address the crown with a low hairline? again ur making blanket statements. some ppl have smaller heads Joe and don't require as many grafts to fill in such area.

and some have more doubles and triples then other therefore will give more density with the same amount of grafts and some have thicker hair. so again Joe, ur making blanket statements that are inaccurate.

ppl will read that and think its gospel cause they read it on this forum and ur a respected member. you need to be more careful with the advice u give out cause wat ur saying is not accurate with LOTS of patients out there.

and thousands of ppl out there have far more then 5000 grafts to donate. many have 6000 and 7000 grafts and that does NOT include BHT. are you saying those with 6000-7000 grafts can't have a full dense look as well?

I see u now represent someone who does not perform BHT so I guess thats why you have not commented on the use of body hair as well to give more density up top. its done all the time Joe by top BHT surgeons to fill in density.

Busa,

 

Well, let's explore this further. First, why did you capitalize the letters "ASS" when said I was "ASSuming".

 

If you re-read what I said, I did not say it would rob the patient of "ANY" chance of addressing the crown as in EVER. I'm talking about one procedure which is why I said it is good to sometimes break these things up into two sessions. Concentrate in the front in one session, then concentrate in the back for the second session. A true NW5 has a huge crown to deal with and 5000 grafts (which was the high estimate) will not make a huge difference, if any, if a low hairline is to be rebuilt.

 

When I talk about having a "lower hairline" I'm talking about what most people ask for in that they want closed temples and something resembling what they had before loss started, including temple recession. This can mean about 2000 grafts or more in addition to what would be necessary if they opted for a more mature hairline that still makes a huge improvement in facial framing and gives a more youthful appearance. The more mature the hairline the smaller the area to place hair. The smaller the area to place hair with the same number of grafts the higher the density will be. It's simple math. Since we're dealing with estimates of up to 5000 grafts then any crown coverage, again going by the NW5 category, will be weak at best with a low hairline. In fact, it would be a waste of time. Even with a higher hairline, in my experience, 5000 grafts leaves the patient wishing for more crown attention more times than not.

 

And no, I don't know what his donor is like but neither do you. I'm simply going in the information at hand and my own experience. He's had two consultations with two well known doctors so I cannot "ASSume" 6500 grafts are available in one procedure if neither of these doctors recommended as much and neither can you for that matter. In fact, I'm not sure where you got this number to begin with as no one else has mentioned it in this entire thread. The chances of him getting 6500 grafts in one procedure are next to zero and I don't need his photos to see this. I'm going on averages here but that is also why I invited the OP to use me as a second opinion resource because I'll tell him what the truth is regardless of whom he's dealing with or what he's been told. It's nice being able to talk about what's "possible" but in reality we have to deal with averages and not assume the upper crust of anything. Full coverage and a low hairline on a NW5 with 5000 grafts is not going to happen for the average patient. Maybe the patient has a small head. Maybe he has rope like hair shafts that are four times the diameter of the average hair shaft but this cannot be assumed and I have every right, and even the responsibility, to ASSume he's not an excpetional surgical candidate above and beyond what is average. My mission is to tell people the truth, not what they want to hear, because in the end the doctor doesn't have to deal with the outcome, the patient does.

Thanks guys! I know they aren't the best progress pics to look at, but I hope it gives you an idea.

 

 

 

Yeah Busa, I think your right. I knew this going into the procedure that I'd probably want a touch up later. I think that will be in several years, but we'll see. When do people usually get a touch up?

 

Also, I know there are some who say 26 is too young, but now I'm 28 seeing the full results. I couldn't imagine waiting any longer, I feel so much better.

if I was 26 and losing my hair I wud opt for a HT just like u did. u can also implant more as you age as long as u have adequate donor.

a touch up is usually done 8-12 months after the initial HT. waiting a few extra months is a good idea imo. this will not only allow the surgeon to identify the previously transplanted grafts to get an idea on the density and wave of the newly transplanted hairs but this helps the HT surgeon in placing the new grafts.

u don't need much. another 1500 or so grafts shud really give u that density ur lookn for.

SMP is an option to to giv that illusion of more hair. I have seen two ppl get it done around here. they went to NY city. it looks like they added 2000 grafts to the top of their head!

looks like u got pretty good beard hair too. mite want to consider that as an option to fill in the top with more density. Doganay has quite a bit of experience with BHT.

You guys should check Zekeriya Kul as well. He charges 1 euro per graft and his results are very very satisfying. Unfortunately he refuses to translant more than 1500 grafts in a day . He also refuses to transplant on the vertex area.

Nice job Doc.

 

So can I guess your Pt has not been taken any Meds over this 15yrs?

Also call me a dummy but what is DFUs? ...ill take a guess & say D stands for Dense.

looks good and natural

him and Maras are both pure artists! look at that hairline. thing of beauty!

u shud post pics wen u make threads like this. kinda useless without them.

looks pretty good. I think u cud stand to have another 1500 grafts for some density tho. looks a little thin up front in some pics. much better then before pics tho.

You seem like you have a decent grasp on your situation. I can honestly say to you, uncategorically, that having a lower hairline will rob you of any chance of having a positive cosmetic impact on the crown. I've not seen your photos (forgive me if you posted them somewhere) but if you are a NW5 or so then having a low hairline means you still have a bald crown. Having a more mature hairline and even light coverage in the crown means you are no longer bald, just mature. In fact, having a mature hairline with good density/coverage for the top and foregoing the crown for a second procedure is also a good idea. This allows for more grafts to be concentrated in one area each time. It's just one option but I think it is the safest. Too many times I've seen patients get a healthy number of grafts only to think the result is too thin because they wanted everything done in one procedure. It's something to think about. Btw, since you've had consultations already you are welcome to use my second opinion service on my website. I do this for patients of all clinics.

plenty of ppl who are NW5's can have an aggressive hairline and still fill in the crown perfectly fine. its been done numerous times. some ppl have 7000-8000 donor hairs. so ur telling me if someone transplants 6500 grafts in a NW5 that he can't have great coverage with a lowered hairline? cmon Joe....

thats just not true. ur entitled to ur opinion and I respect that but saying "uncategorically" if someone wants a lowered hairline it will rob them of ANY chance of addressing the crown is simply irresponsible advice and completely false!

especially if you have no clue how much donor hair he has. and not to mention body hair can also be used to fill in density. its been done thousands of times over the last few years but absent body hair its absolutely possible with ample donor hair.

As mentioned here Doganay can work with fewer grafts to obtain a more favourable result.

 

wow looks like a full head of hair now. congrats

Guys,

 

Let's remember to remain civil.

 

I think there are a few concrete points we can all agree on here:

 

1. Body hair grafts will always retain their donor characteristics. If you transplant thicker, coarser, wavy hair follicles on the scalp, they will continue to grow this way.

some ppl have very course beard and body hair. others have softer hair them resembles scalp hair. so saying body hair will ALWAYS retain the donor characteristics is not true for all.

not gonna work for everyone I agree but a HT in general isn't gonna work for everyone. beard hair tho does tend to turn grey before head hair does tho and of course the anagen, telegen and catogen phases are different. nothing hair dye can't fix tho....

Hairweare,

I must agree with you on that point . It is sad that many (including myself) have spent a great deal of their life (both mentally and financially) on initial injury that require further extensive cost and repair. I will tell you this after being butchered by 4 strip physicians back in the late 90's when no FUE was available - it is so nice to have the advances that we have today with FUE for both scalp and strip. For those that have not experienced both to compare - its hard to fully understand overall benefits of each .

 

I will tell you that today I would without hesitation go with a beard / scalp hair hybrid transplant knowing the type of shorter hair style (3/4 legnth on top) that I prefer and looks very good on me. The beard hair is actually much more appropriate for this hair style than scalp hair. My take home point is at least we have options now - although costly they may be. Beard/BHT requires understanding of limitations/expectations .

yea I agree if keeping ur hair short BHT can work well. if trying to grow long I think it will end up lookn like a wax figure.

I know you are pro FUE so do you have a personal choice should you decide to get a TP?

how much is he charging for 2500 grafts?

take some close ups with an HD camera from multiple angles as David suggested and then post em up

With all due respect BUSA, it is good practice to show dry 'before pics' and dry 'after' pics. That is purely my opinion which I am entitled to express.

 

This is a good result, but the wet hair before makes it look more dramatic than it may actually be.

 

I know you are a fan of Dr Erdogan, but please think logically before jumping to his defence!

wat matters is the end result and its quite impressive but I guess you forget to mention that small detail....:rolleyes:

I realize that success is a relative term but to be more convinced that this $80K procedure was objectively successful

can't draw blood from a stone. poor donor and a vast area to cover. guy jus looks less bald now. doesn't look very natural. prob not a gd candidate for a HT but if the patient is happy then gd for him.

u hav at 5 months wat most hav at 14 months. that will get much thicker. u will be very happy at the 10th month I bet. post up in another couple months.

To achieve adequate cosmetic coverage for most NW 6-7, anywhere from 9K to 10.5K grafts would be required. Did you really expect a full head of hair from only half of that?

I think the bottom line is you were a poor candidate for a HT. I think Dr. Bhatti will think twice before taking on patients like you again.

I'm sure its devastating and I do feel for ya but the fact is you wud hav had poor results with any doctor and the sooner you come to terms with that the easier ull sleep at nite.

lol no offense bro but that definitely is NOT 3000 grafts implanted. looks more like 750 grafts implanted.

but it does look as tho in the donor area that far more grafts were removed. just doesn't look like they were implanted into ur head.

it won't be cheaper wen u need to seek out an FUE surgeon to repair ur poorly healed scar. u won't be seeking an FUT surgeon to repair anything done via FUE.

don't be suckered into the lower price of FUT. get it done right the first time and opt for FUE. save a little more money.

I wud have to agree with the Wax figure comment. I guess it just goes to show using all body hairs to create a natural looking HT just isn't gonna happen.