1978matt

I'm thinking 2400 grafts

Well above average

Bobby Limmer studied graft survival about 30 years ago and found it to be 88% after 8 hours out of the body; although this was stored in Saline and not modern holding solutions.  Interestingly it was still 79% after 24 hours and even 54% after 48 hours.  Mike Beehner did a similar study with Hypothermosol & ATP and had results around 100% at 8 hrs and 82% at 24.

Most reputable doctors won't go much beyond 3500 these days, with a few exceptions who have large teams to cope with the extra workload.

I think 3500-4000 is a good FUT limit and 2000-2500 for FUE.

7 minutes ago, blufforfold said:

Genuinely asking, do you rate my donor as average mostly because of the side shots? I really feel my sides have thinned since starting Fin, it could be that I pushed out some weaker hairs, not sure, its been almost 9 months. I didnt pay attention to the sides that strongly but I never felt I thought they were even remotely thin but I do feel they like just a tad thin these days

I had online consults with a handful of people with photos and the lowest graft quote I got was 1500 from Dr Yazdan and the highest I got was 2500 from Dr Scott Alexander in AZ.

As I asked above, is there more risk associated with shock loss the less skilled the surgeon is and the equipment they use? Not much discussion took place with my previous consults about shock loss but its definitely something I will discuss in my newer consults.

I was looking mostly at the back shots where you parted the hair.  Even though it may be average density, the natural hair wave more than compensates.

I would treat the thin areas as if there is no hair left to save.  I mean, the hair that is left does not produce a lot of coverage so it's probably little more than 10 hairs per sq cm.  With that in mind I would not worry too much about shockloss.  You are bound to look a bit worse after 3 months post surgery anyway, even if those remaining hairs survive and grow back. 

Your hair qualities are really quite great (wavy).  Density is probably about average in the donor.

If you go to one of the goats of HTs (Konior, Shapiro, Wong etc) you could probably get away with 1500-2000 FUE.

Only about 2 or 3 these days, but I remember 15-20 years ago there were tons in the shower and on the pillow.  Probably 50-100 daily.

On 1.25mg fin every third day.  Interestingly I don't get any sides when I take it straight after breakfast.  Taking it outside meal times seems to give very minor brain fog.

14 hours ago, olmert said:

 

@1978matt, where are you getting this 80% retention rate for FUE and 90% retention rate for FUT? Doesn't @Melvin- Moderator bring a video from Hasson saying his FUE has a higher retention rate than with FUT? 

Is a supposed higher retention rate with FUT the entire reason some believe you can get more with a combo FUT/FUE than with only FUE? 

I saw a bit of that video and I think he is talking about growth.  I'm making an assumption about transsection / failed extractions, and also for increasingly difficult extraction after a few HTs.

If you want you can just assume 100% for both.

10 hours ago, jim1973 said:

@1978matt Was recommended to follow your threads.  Can you find one that would be relatable to my situation?  Starting point and current look?  Appreciate it. 

I think another Matt is a closer match to what you require.  Here is his first HT:

He had a couple of additional HTs after that to make refinements and add density.

Probably 2500 minimum.  I think I would caution against temple points due to age.  Maybe save that for a second surgery if the first is a success.

Doctors are too many to list in NA.  Chicago Hair Institute; Shapiro Medical Group, Hasson & Wong, Gabel, Bloxham (FUT only)...

Absolutely you could have a HT.  Something like 2000-2500 in the front and 'bridge' area. 

I think you would be best going FUE if you want to retain this sort of short hairstyle.

Just avoid doctors who don't spread out the extractions well enough.

You might have to go back in 10-15 years to sort out the crown.  Also, consider Avodart/DUT if doctors are willing to prescribe it.

Beard hair is no substitute for real head hair.  In a lot of cases it is very wiry and a totally different thickness and texture.

Not everyone has an abudance of body hair either.  Mine is way too fine and sheds like crazy.  My beard also lacks density.

I think you would need about 1500 grafts if going down that route.

Worth consulting with Dr Cooley regarding this as well.  He uses electrolysis to kill off old grafts.  There may be too many to go down that route, but I'm no expert with it.

Others talk about using laser hair removal, but again, I don't really know much about it.

I've just done a small (Excel spreadsheet) study of my own to try to estimate the extra grafts from a combination approach.

First off you need some assumptions.  Mine are:

1)An FUE donor area of 300cm2. 

2)Lets assume the FUT donor area on the same scalp is limited to two strips, 30cm long by 1.5cm wide (on average) = 90cm2.

The FUE donor density is likely to be lower on average than the FUT zone, because the FUT zone usually coincides with the 'sweet spot' for density.  I'm going to use 70 FU/cm2 in the FUE area and 80 FU/cm2 in the FUT zone.

If you can take 50% of the FUE area without making it look bad, with an allowance of about 20% total lost to transection (/ extraction difficulty), you could take a total of:

0.5 x 300 x 70 x 0.8 = 8,400 grafts FUE

If you can take 90% of the FUT zone, with the 10% lost due to cutting of the strip (/ strip dissection errors), you could take a total of:

0.9 x 90 x 80 = 6,480 grafts FUT

______________________________________

So lets say you start FUT and then FUE the area (210cm2) above and below the scar.  This time you only take 40% of the area to avoid exposing the scar.  So the amount of additional FUE grafts are:

0.4 x 210 x 70 x 0.8 = 4,704 grafts FUE.

Adding that to the FUT grafts, you would achieve 11,184 grafts using a combination approach, which is 2,784 more than using FUE exclusively.

Of course, it will totally vary from person to person, so not saying this would apply to everyone.

_______________________________________

Also worth noting that none of this considers other benefits of FUT, such as the 'permanency' or DHT resistance of the donor area, which is known to be strongest in the FUT region. 

Would recommend Dr Raymond Konior as being highly adept in these situations.

It doesn't look irrepairable. You just need to fill in the gap.

Maybe fill in any scars from the old HTs at the same time.

Crown, it's difficult to tell.  Maybe consider that if the corrective HT #1 meets your goals.

Your case looks similar to @Gasthoerer, who went to Feriduni, with great results.

Unlikely.

It's just the natural whorl (/spiral) which always looks thin because of the way the hair fans out in all directions.

It looks normal. I had a band around 1.5cm wide of shocked out hair which grew back around the same rate as the transplanted hair.

It should fill in over the next 3-4 months.

https://www.ishrs-htforum.org/content/htfi/29/5/local/front-matter.pdf

"Conclusion: More hair and grafts were obtained using combination FUT followed by FUE than by either
technique alone. Although many practitioners feel that using FUE only can take care of the hair loss needs of
most patients, there may yet be a population of patients who will benefit from the ability to harvest a higher
number of grafts. It is important for hair transplant surgeons to have options available to give patients maximal
donor if desired."

The last time I looked the ABHRS requires an exam, interview, presentation of a number of the Doctor's own cases.  It definately is a better indicator of quality compared to the other two. 

HT done in the late 90s with maybe another in the early to mid 2000s.

It looks like a system when concealers and other products are used to bulk it out.

There's a picture here where it looks a lot more natural:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9112257/Sylvester-Stallone-buys-35M-Bermuda-style-seven-bedroom-Palm-Beach-estate-Florida.html

Probably ingrown hairs.

FUE is not perfect as it done relatively blindly with regards to what might be going on below the surface of the scalp.  For example, follicles hidden in a resting phase may be unwhittingly damaged or blocked by scar tissue.

I had maybe a handful in the donor area which imerged like small acne spots.  These went away after a while.  I still maybe get one randomly occuring every 3 months or so.

30 minutes ago, sl said:

Has anyone got a clear photo or footage of the hand actually landing? I guess they have more cameras than the pentagon and with all the phones there also...should be there for the world to see for the most famous slap in history.

From what I can see and hear, he seems to connect with Chris' microphone only.

It doesn't look much more than 10-15.  45 is a bit much for that area.  I'd try to get to 25-30, in which case I'd say 1200-1500 tops.